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Devonaut posted:after slightly less than ten thousand years, I managed to get a job offer today for ~44k over my previous salary you're fine until you start exploiting people. selling labor is selling labor
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Jul 24, 2020 22:35
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Devonaut posted:after slightly less than ten thousand years, I managed to get a job offer today for ~44k over my previous salary make those figgies
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Jul 25, 2020 00:23
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Devonaut posted:after slightly less than ten thousand years, I managed to get a job offer today for ~44k over my previous salary guilt is useless, get paid
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Jul 25, 2020 16:00
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ultravoices posted:guilt is useless, get paid My guilt is looking at the salary of the people who joined my team and seeing these vast difference in salary where the people being paid less are far more capable than those being paid more, and having very limited discretionary budget to address it.
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Jul 25, 2020 17:34
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nobody has ever been paid based on ability, they get paid on negotiating position and negotiating ability to those in power, negotiating ability and ability are always the same, cuz thats the main skill of holding on to power. so its always a meritocracy! yay! computers interact with this terribly because every computer is a suicide bombing terrorist, good luck negotiating with it bob dobbs is dead fucked around with this message at 18:50 on Jul 25, 2020 |
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Jul 25, 2020 17:36
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Hughlander posted:My guilt is looking at the salary of the people who joined my team and seeing these vast difference in salary where the people being paid less are far more capable than those being paid more, and having very limited discretionary budget to address it. tell the more capable people to find new jobs
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Jul 25, 2020 17:51
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still haven't had the amazon interview yet but the recruiter just sent me a list of questions to answer and included "what is your expected compensation?" Is it a bad idea to respond with something along the lines of: "it's too early for me to have a good idea of a specific number, but most likely somewhere in the range of what glassdoor/levels.fyi says for SDEs in my location"? Am I better off just dodging the question completely until after the interview?
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Jul 25, 2020 18:58
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dodge that question like a bullfighter
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Jul 25, 2020 18:59
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that question is a trap for idiots. you expect competitive compensation for the role. that’s it. you can discuss the rest when they decide they want to hire you and you have much more leverage.
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Jul 25, 2020 19:03
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if there is a risk that the company actually cannot afford you, it is sometimes worth answering that question amazon does not have that risk
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Jul 25, 2020 19:08
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raminasi posted:if there is a risk that the company actually cannot afford you, it is sometimes worth answering that question Yes and yes.
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Jul 25, 2020 19:09
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raminasi posted:if there is a risk that the company actually cannot afford you, it is sometimes worth answering that question one of the benefits of figgieland prime is that they legally have to give a range in the posting, so never a need in figgieland prime
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Jul 25, 2020 19:11
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elcannon posted:still haven't had the amazon interview yet but the recruiter just sent me a list of questions to answer and included "what is your expected compensation?" Is it a bad idea to respond with something along the lines of: "it's too early for me to have a good idea of a specific number, but most likely somewhere in the range of what glassdoor/levels.fyi says for SDEs in my location"? Am I better off just dodging the question completely until after the interview? if you give them a "range" your absolute best case will be the bottom of that range
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Jul 25, 2020 19:23
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if you are in a bona fide secondary figgieland like seattle or nyc then peep amazons own ranges for their figgieland prime positions, to better your own negotiating position if you actually mention those ranges we will yell at you tho
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Jul 25, 2020 19:26
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PIZZA.BAT posted:if you give them a "range" your absolute best case will be the bottom of that range Yeah I guess this was what was making me uneasy the most. Thanks all for the solid answer. I do kind of feel like an rear end for presumably making the recruiter's job more difficult, but thinking about it this is the first time I've really dealt with interviewing for a company with over 1000 employees so maybe he's used to it.
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Jul 25, 2020 19:47
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elcannon posted:Yeah I guess this was what was making me uneasy the most. Thanks all for the solid answer. I do kind of feel like an rear end for presumably making the recruiter's job more difficult, but thinking about it this is the first time I've really dealt with interviewing for a company with over 1000 employees so maybe he's used to it. Their job- day in and day out- is to get you to feel that 'uneasy- i feel like an rear end' feeling. Don't feel bad for not letting it work on you edit: Some of them will get REALLY mad when you don't let it work on you though. This is a colossal  and you're better off not working there
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Jul 25, 2020 19:48
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elcannon posted:Yeah I guess this was what was making me uneasy the most. Thanks all for the solid answer. I do kind of feel like an rear end for presumably making the recruiter's job more difficult, but thinking about it this is the first time I've really dealt with interviewing for a company with over 1000 employees so maybe he's used to it. i think i've told this story in this thread before but when i got an offer for my current job i countered at 4% higher (to make the number rounder, primarily to practice countering) and the recruiter hemmed and hawwed about how he'd never heard of an increase that substantial before but he would try. for 4%. it's just a line, it's a totally mundane part of their job that they do all the time.
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Jul 25, 2020 20:03
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biggest i asked for and got was 40 grand more if youre practicing you might as well practice big and let them say no
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Jul 25, 2020 20:13
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hiring is difficult. most interviews end up in a no hire recommendation. so once they’ve decided to hire, the recruiter’s interest is sealing the deal. the power relationship has flipped. your job is to make the recruiter work for you. give them the tools to go back and ask for more money on your behalf. tell them that the offer is not enough, and ask them to do better. if they ask you for numbers, you can give them something high that you can walk back because “you like their company”. tell them you have competing offers. tell them you’re walking away from a lot of unvested shares. tell them you like them but their offer is not competitive with what you’re seeing. tell them the cost of living in their area is a big increase from where you are or the commute is terrible etc this allows them to go back to their boss and say that the candidate needs more to accept this offer, to have the hiring manager get their director to intervene on your behalf.
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Jul 25, 2020 20:33
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"What is your expected compensation?" is the "Do you know why I pulled you over?" of interviewing. It's either an idiot trap or if they get really huffy and assholish about it then it means their offer is guaranteed to be uncompetitive dogshit and they know it.
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Jul 25, 2020 21:30
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just lost the junior in my title but job is a gently caress so im applying after one year.
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Jul 25, 2020 22:16
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i have bad news for you about literally every other job
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Jul 25, 2020 23:08
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PIZZA.BAT posted:just finished my take home. this one was literally 'here's what you're gonna be expected to do for your job, we spun up a server for you, here's the api documentation, go' update: they liked my demo and want to keep moving forwards  i decided to look at their interview reviews on glassdoor and it's just a wall of negative experiences of people bitching about the demo and how long it took them only for them to be rejected. most people are saying it took them 30-40 hours to complete, if they were even able to complete it. it took me about 4 hours. so yeah i guess this is a pretty good filter for candidates after the demo one of the interviewers asked me how long it took me to build. i gave him a rough estimate and said we could check the access logs to the server to see how accurate i was. he said no need because they were watching me the whole time  very clever. i think if i'm ever responsible for building a hiring pipeline this will definitely be something that's included if it's possible. the candidate doesn't get performance anxiety and can essentially work under their ideal conditions. blasting death metal at 1 am? go for it
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Jul 25, 2020 23:24
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been hunting for a new job this year and after reading this and the BFC threads i know giving desired salary numbers is a great way to get criminally underpaid (like I have been for most of my career). had a phone interview yesterday where they asked if I had a salary range in mind. "I do, but I want to hear what you're offering." their range was about 35% higher than what I had in my head never give them a number
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Jul 26, 2020 00:51
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I'm applying for a job at a place.
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Jul 26, 2020 00:56
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FreshFeesh posted:never give them a number 
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Jul 26, 2020 01:30
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PIZZA.BAT posted:i think if i'm ever responsible for building a hiring pipeline this will definitely be something that's included if it's possible. the candidate doesn't get performance anxiety and can essentially work under their ideal conditions. blasting death metal at 1 am? go for it keep in mind that you're gonna exclude a lot of people who don't want to spend 4+ hours doing work after work. you're gonna do a great job of hiring new grads, people who are unemployed, and people who hate their current jobs, but asking a senior person who doesnt hate their job to jump through hoops like that is gonna be a big "lol nah" a lot of the time
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Jul 26, 2020 03:31
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Sure, but on the other hand a couple of 45 minute algorithms rounds are in practice going to be preceded by 4-6 hours of private study because hey turns out I don't actually reverse linked lists or devise dynamic programming algorithms on the spot all day long at my job, so it's not a skill set I actively maintain when I'm not interviewing. On the other hand if you ask me to integrate some APIs written by idiots then actually I'm pretty good at that because that's what I do all day. Sometimes I even get to be the API-designing idiot. So it's probably a less annoying use of a few hours of my time on balance. That being said yeah there are definitely some candidates who will not consider it to be a worthwhile investment of their time.
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Jul 26, 2020 04:35
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lol at 4 hours of homework. I’ll tolerate an hour if I’m seriously looking for work, if I’m not then nope. online coding tests are much better.
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Jul 26, 2020 04:57
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Schadenboner posted:I'm applying for a job at a place.
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Jul 26, 2020 12:17
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jesus WEP posted:good luck my friend, i hope your interviewing is as good as your posting is terrible No one could be that good at interviewing.
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Jul 26, 2020 13:18
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No matter what you have in your interview process, a substantial fraction of your candidates are going to hate it. That's just life.
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Jul 26, 2020 14:18
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ultrafilter posted:No matter what you have in your interview process, a substantial fraction of your candidates are going to hate it. That's just life. including if you don't have very much of anything at all, as evidenced previously itt
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Jul 26, 2020 14:26
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https://twitter.com/metaltxt/status/1287067583087169537
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Jul 26, 2020 14:53
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quote:Just want to check in once again. How are you doing? It’s been a crazy year and hope your healthy and safe! quote:I hope you and your loved ones are well! quote:I hope you’re keeping well at this time so many recruiters care about my health.
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Jul 26, 2020 17:54
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recruiter posted:Came across your profile online and was impressed by what I was able to learn. You seem to know your way around Ruby, yeah? I have not so much as opened a ruby source file in my entire life lol
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Jul 26, 2020 18:10
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Makeout Patrol posted:I have not so much as opened a ruby source file in my entire life lol they sent that email to tons of people it's the nigerian prince scam of recruiting
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Jul 26, 2020 18:12
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ultrafilter posted:No matter what you have in your interview process, a substantial fraction of your candidates are going to hate it. That's just life. True to interviewing, dating, art, and pretty much any creative pursuit. You can be the sweetest peach on Earth, but some people just fuckin' hate peaches I had a cold call this week to try to put me in a lateral position in Columbus Ohio. I currently work in a second-tier metro area, which means cost of living takes a hit but so do things like "culture" and such. I didn't feel like playing the game (very little chance of me moving to Columbus under any circumstance) so I threw out my salary +50% when they asked what would be my salary range. They said "that's a little high" so I asked point blank what they could get to. It was my salary +30%. I told them that's a good starting point. Long story short I'm getting a technical interview anyway because literally nobody with a steady job and good sense is looking to make an interstate move right now
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Jul 26, 2020 18:13
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if you are in a non-stupid state, moving to a stupid state right now is a bad idea.
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Jul 26, 2020 18:30
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The Management posted:if you are in a non-stupid state, moving to a stupid state right now is a bad idea. I mean, moving to Ohio is rarely a "net-positive transaction" (as the kids say these days)?
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Jul 26, 2020 18:32
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