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Our graduate hires all do their first 3-6 months on the support/ops desk. It really helps them gain a feel for how the company works and gives them contacts throughout the company. Then when they join a more dev focused team they know what matters and normally come in with lots of ideas. It helps that the support team all do some dev work, and devs are expected to support their own apps. Still doesn't mean that the grads know much about coding though.
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Mar 9, 2018 19:44
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how tf do you graduate with a cs degree and be literally unable to program? did i accidentally go to a good school or something?
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Mar 9, 2018 19:48
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if my experience is anything to go by, they graduate by bugging people around them to share their work and just turn that in i took a class where the prof wanted us all to do Pair Programming. my partner rarely showed up after the first day so i was stuck doing all the work solo. i also ratted his rear end out and the prof was cool with me just putting my name on stuff. almost felt a little bad about it but dude told me he would handle the last assignment for the class and flaked on that too
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Mar 9, 2018 20:05
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Mao Zedong Thot posted:how tf do you graduate with a cs degree and be literally unable to program? did i accidentally go to a good school or something? This is me after 9/10 phone interviews
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Mar 9, 2018 20:11
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Shaman Linavi posted:hella same translation: we want the young and naive so we can pay them as little as possible
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Mar 9, 2018 20:16
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pointsofdata posted:Our graduate hires all do their first 3-6 months on the support/ops desk. It really helps them gain a feel for how the company works and gives them contacts throughout the company. Then when they join a more dev focused team they know what matters and normally come in with lots of ideas. It helps that the support team all do some dev work, and devs are expected to support their own apps. this is actually a pretty decent idea if your company is large enough to handle it Mao Zedong Thot posted:how tf do you graduate with a cs degree and be literally unable to program? did i accidentally go to a good school or something? yup.
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Mar 9, 2018 20:29
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the range of people applying to programming roles includes people who are 100% full of poo poo so it's best to cut them early with incredibly basic coding questions
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Mar 9, 2018 20:34
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i've seen a lot of mid-career people that are completely useless, and that's not surprising sadly, hence fizzbuzz. But out of a new grad I would expect someone relatively dumb, but also with base level competence
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Mar 9, 2018 20:36
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Cs programs are now riddled with people who aren't actually into the subject matter at all but heard you can get paid a lot to program. They don't engage with the courses but don't switch programs because sunk costs, and then graduate having gamed their way to a degree without absorbing any material. Also 18-22 year olds just don't loving appreciate the education they're receiving and gently caress around on their phones during class. It really stuck out to me how disengaged they were as an adult going back to school.
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Mar 9, 2018 21:02
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cis autodrag posted:Also 18-22 year olds just don't loving appreciate the education they're receiving and gently caress around on their phones during class. It really stuck out to me how disengaged they were as an adult going back to school. yeah i'm a much better student in my 30s, probably because i appreciate how much time and money this is costing me.
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Mar 9, 2018 22:02
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Younger students are 70% at university to party and get laid a lot.
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Mar 9, 2018 22:17
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traditional college students are teenagers for half of school so it's not surprising at all they don't pay attention. im sure I'd be a better student now that I was then
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Mar 9, 2018 22:20
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yeah i dont think i would do schooling again unless im really into it.
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Mar 9, 2018 22:20
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qhat posted:They cannot program. I don't mind if they are bad as long as it's fixable, but I shouldn't have to explain what inheritance is to a new graduate. i was chatting with an old high school pal and he has been programming for four five years and makes six figgies. i had to be explain inheritance to him and im a fuckwad just getting into upper division courses. how? is basic knowledge really this selective in computer jobs?
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Mar 9, 2018 22:27
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Mao Zedong Thot posted:how tf do you graduate with a cs degree and be literally unable to program? did i accidentally go to a good school or something? i wonder this frequently Rex-Goliath posted:yup. northern arizona: top 50????
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Mar 9, 2018 22:27
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Dongslayer. posted:i was chatting with an old high school pal and he has been programming for four five years and makes six figgies. i had to be explain inheritance to him and im a fuckwad just getting into upper division courses. how? is basic knowledge really this selective in computer jobs? getting jobs seems to be related more to networking and nepotism than it is actual skill sometimes
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Mar 9, 2018 22:29
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Dongslayer. posted:i was chatting with an old high school pal and he has been programming for four five years and makes six figgies. i had to be explain inheritance to him and im a fuckwad just getting into upper division courses. how? is basic knowledge really this selective in computer jobs? i knew a few other students who could easily end up like this because they were passable programmers but absolutely positively did not care about any material that did not interest them personally. like, sit in class with arms folded, bad mouth profs with careers older than they were, etc. turns out they're terrible to work with too!
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Mar 9, 2018 22:30
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how do you make it years without understanding inheritance  i mean I guess you could work only in a language without it?????
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Mar 9, 2018 23:01
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qhat posted:We're hiring co-ops at the moment and trying to find ones that can even program at all is very difficult. I have to keep reminding myself that even though we need more hands doing the easy stuff, the cost of wasting my time on someone who cannot grasp the very basics of programming will far outweigh any benefit of an additional person. no co-op / intern will ever produce more than they cost you it's a recruiting effort, not a way to get work done
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Mar 9, 2018 23:07
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SamDabbers posted:translation: we want the young and naive so we can pay them as little as possible that's what a "junior" position is already not sure why you would need illegal age discrimination in there, too. what's wrong with a 60 year old who wants to be underpaid in exchange for valuable job experience?
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Mar 9, 2018 23:09
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Pollyanna posted:getting jobs seems to be related more to networking and nepotism than it is actual skill sometimes Yeah, I even would go as far as saying that as long as your school was not a straight up diploma mill, if you were driven, paid attention, learned stuff also from the internet and by doing practical projects and exercises you got a good education, no matter if it was a top-something school or not. Some schools just have it better in terms of networking & nepotism, there's not a lot someone can do about that besides to be rich or have amazing grades and do research work as soon as possible so that you can apply to some scholarship at a big name school. Obviously these strategies are not for everyone so my solution was to just pay attention and make sure I learn as much as I can by understanding concepts and the reasoning behind them (don't just memorize). I am still a dumbass but it seems maybe I am not the dumbest around anymore.
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Mar 9, 2018 23:12
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Mao Zedong Thot posted:how tf do you graduate with a cs degree and be literally unable to program? did i accidentally go to a good school or something? maybe, but also consider unless you did a coop or side work you got paid for, you cant really judge your skills in the context of the real world. this is not a problem as nobody is expecting CS grads to know how to program irl. you goal should be to get somewhere that can mentor you and your mentor's goal should be to turn you from a time sink into a productive employee.
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Mar 9, 2018 23:35
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networking and nepotism are good and you should never be afraid of exploiting your connections.
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Mar 9, 2018 23:36
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Mao Zedong Thot posted:how tf do you graduate with a cs degree and be literally unable to program? did i accidentally go to a good school or something? i recently interviewed a dude with an MS CS who couldn't manage fizzbuzz
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Mar 9, 2018 23:37
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and I'm not even talking cant do fizzbuzz I'm talking about grads who can do basic programming but cant understand why they'd ever do something like validate input
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Mar 9, 2018 23:42
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move fast, break things
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Mar 9, 2018 23:42
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also new grads always want to reinvent every wheel instead of just using the appropriate library. you have to break them of that pretty quick.
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Mar 9, 2018 23:43
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:no co-op / intern will ever produce more than they cost you They're subsidised in Canada so it costs us very little in hard capital. So if they end up really bad then shove them in a corner doing a project no-one cares about for rest of their term.
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Mar 10, 2018 00:44
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current recruiting status: it’s been 3 weeks since interview and no response yet so I guess I didn’t completely bomb, because they’d let me know immediately if that were the case right 
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Mar 10, 2018 01:02
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:what's wrong with a 60 year old who wants to be underpaid in exchange for valuable job experience? at that age overworking them might kill them instead of merely drive them out of the industry
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Mar 10, 2018 01:11
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Jimmy Carter posted:current recruiting status: If you've been waiting longer than 2 weeks you should email asking for an update.
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Mar 10, 2018 01:14
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i would be extremely worried if junior engineers didnt know what inheritance was
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Mar 10, 2018 13:14
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ugh, my resume suuuuucks as a stem-lord i am completely helpless to make it better
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Mar 10, 2018 13:22
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anonymize and post it
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Mar 10, 2018 13:24
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as a junior dev working with a few other junior devs i quickly found out that just indenting my code properly so it was readable easily put me in the top 10% of our work group
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Mar 10, 2018 13:27
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HoboMan posted:as a junior dev working with a few other junior devs i quickly found out that just indenting my code properly so it was readable easily put me in the top 10% of our work group wow maybe im not as awful as i think 
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Mar 10, 2018 13:30
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im still kinda mad that at my last job everything took the form of "one guy writes all the code and does all the architecting and makes all the decisions, and the other engineers just copy his code and tweak it slightly" i will not join a project like that again
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Mar 10, 2018 13:31
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spending time on yospos makes you underestimate you are ability because you think everyone in the world is as good as tef or mononqc
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Mar 10, 2018 14:05
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while this is true the software development interview process is a fickle beast and success or failure is only weakly correlated with programming ability at best
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Mar 10, 2018 14:18
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Sapozhnik posted:while this is true the software development interview process is a fickle beast and success or failure is only weakly correlated with ftfy, because I personally prefer to work with people who are amicable and with whom it is fun to solve problems rather than some code wizard who is unapproachable and terrible to work with that said good luck if you think 6-8 hours of sporadic face to face time is enough to estimate this quality accurately
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Mar 10, 2018 14:52
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