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TheFluff
Dec 13, 2006

FRIENDS, LISTEN TO ME
I AM A SEAGULL
OF WEALTH AND TASTE


started looking around for a new position yesterday and I sure didn't miss recruiters

asked one explicitly via linkedin message if he could name the company he was recruiting for but no, he wanted to get on a call. think i'm just gonna straight up ghost everyone who tries to pull this poo poo. i also don't know why i kept taking non-scheduled phone calls for so long. just send me a loving email or a linkedin message like a reasonable person, jeez.

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The Management
Jan 2, 2010

sup, bitch?


Hirez posted:

thanks, that's kinda what I was thinking...



yea, the director is my manager, so I'm basically doing tickets that my colleagues escalate to him for whatever reason (can't figure it out / team lead is off somewhere onsite, etc). Hell I revamped their whole email support setup in 3 hours... They were doing a support@company.com account that forwards to literally everybody, and everybody is always replying all and the chains are loving insane; including shipping/accounting/development stuff; then theres those who only reply to the client so no one has any idea it's been completed or in progress or anything and then people spend time doing already done work :negative:

I just made a support mailbox, had everyone add it to their outlook (and they were amazed you could do that) - now we just use that shared box and it auto cc's all replies, and also created a get this, a Completed/Done folder, where you move your poo poo when its done... now poo poo is actually traceable when people are off shift or whatever the gently caress... Then they were amazed at the labels/colours you can flag emails with.... ugh... going from Big loving Telecom & Big loving Government (eHealth) to small business is wild...


I just remember my first job at a similar sized small business before I went into Big Co/Govt, it was like pulling teeth for anything, including oncall pay (lol $100/week to be oncall 24/7/365 gently caress you); though that company was a complete shithole, from owner all the way down... so I\ve always had that feeling that asking for a raise at a small company would seem it's basically taking it directly out of the owners pocket whereas at mega-co's, my manager is just given money to distribute.

(I'd be asking for about 20% more than my offer but would be okay with 10% for reference)

hereís what you do:
make a list of all your accomplishments in a nice document. detail how you changed things and benefited the company and how youíve gone above and beyond your current role. print it out. set up a meeting with your director. in the meeting say that you believe you were incorrectly leveled at hire, that you are performing at a higher level, and that an adjustment is needed. give your document to your director. tell them to review that and look into it if they donít already know, and see if they agree. if they agree, they should be able to work with you to adjust your role and pay. if they donít, time to start looking elsewhere.

this is not asking for a raise, this is a correction to the hiring process, which is much easier for everyone to swallow. and donít sell yourself short on the increase amount. ask for a big bump.

PokeJoe
Aug 24, 2004

hail cgatan




TheFluff posted:

started looking around for a new position yesterday and I sure didn't miss recruiters

asked one explicitly via linkedin message if he could name the company he was recruiting for but no, he wanted to get on a call. think i'm just gonna straight up ghost everyone who tries to pull this poo poo. i also don't know why i kept taking non-scheduled phone calls for so long. just send me a loving email or a linkedin message like a reasonable person, jeez.

google voice number on the resume with transcription turned on. turns all those calls into emails automagically

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps

Nap Ghost

there are a material proportion of american sales peeps who are surprisingly close to illiterate

President Beep
Apr 29, 2009





i have to have a car because otherwise i cant drive around the country solving mysteries while being doggedly pursued by federal marshals for a crime i did not commit (9/11)


wish i was illiterate when i see your posts!!!

Menacer
Nov 25, 2000
Failed Sega Accessory Ahoy!

i assumed you were illiterate when i tried to read your posts???

President Beep
Apr 29, 2009





i have to have a car because otherwise i cant drive around the country solving mysteries while being doggedly pursued by federal marshals for a crime i did not commit (9/11)


i do emglish very good tnanks.

PokeJoe
Aug 24, 2004

hail cgatan




once i was waiting for a friend at the library and a guy asked me if I was in line. I said "no, I can't read" and he looked at me like with one of the most confused expressions I've seen in my entire life

President Beep
Apr 29, 2009





i have to have a car because otherwise i cant drive around the country solving mysteries while being doggedly pursued by federal marshals for a crime i did not commit (9/11)


and that guyís name was helen keller.

PIZZA.BAT
Nov 12, 2016

:cheers:



PIZZA.BAT posted:

competitor company wants to move forwards and thinks i’m a strong candidate. the only catch is that i've been in consulting my whole life and this is a tier 1 support job. the pay looks good from what i can tell on glassdoor and the work will probably be interesting because you're only going to be seeing the problems that make it to you- but i have a sinking feeling that this will be a step back in my career. any support goons itt who've worked this before and can speak to this?

well they said i flew through their all-day interview with flying colors and want me to go on to speak with their director & vp. so this is looking like it's gonna be a solid win except the last few companies i interviewed with that i got excited about i also flew through until i talked with a director and suddenly got ghosted. not gonna get my hopes up.

in other news an actual engineering company that opened an office here recently (lol) posted a job opening that was basically my dream job a bit back. i applied and got a very strangely worded automated response that sounded like they were rejecting my application but not really? anyways they actually hit me up and want to talk to me starting this week. fingers crossed that this one works out

TheFluff
Dec 13, 2006

FRIENDS, LISTEN TO ME
I AM A SEAGULL
OF WEALTH AND TASTE


PokeJoe posted:

google voice number on the resume with transcription turned on. turns all those calls into emails automagically

not available in my country

these people don't leave voice mail messages either, they just cold call and if i don't take it they just try later the same day, usually 2-4 times a day. i have no idea why they do it, if they have my phone number they also have my email or my linkedin

TheFluff fucked around with this message at 08:04 on Nov 10, 2020

Feisty-Cadaver
Jun 1, 2000
The worms crawl in,
The worms crawl out.

interviewed a person today whose current job is working on the client-side licensing part of Solidworks.

I honestly kinda felt bad that I don't wanna move forward w/ them (interview went poorly), nobody deserves that sorta drudgery day to day.

goon speed mediocre programmer person, hope you find greener pastures

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.
:fart:



TheFluff posted:

these people don't leave voice mail messages either, they just cold call and if i don't take it they just try later the same day, usually 2-4 times a day. i have no idea why they do it, if they have my phone number they also have my email or my linkedin

A lot of recruiters are graded on how many people they get on the phone.

President Beep
Apr 29, 2009





i have to have a car because otherwise i cant drive around the country solving mysteries while being doggedly pursued by federal marshals for a crime i did not commit (9/11)


talent acquisition specialist

Mirthless
Mar 27, 2011


i'm in the process right now of trying to move from second level to third level computer toucher and don't really know what my salary expectations should be

i have been doing EUS for 11 years, the last 5 of which was spent doing desktop and exec support and have a lot of decent resume candy, recruiters seem to want to deal with me and the biggest hamper to me getting a permanent job this year has been jobs getting cancelled at the last second, or in the case of one job, a recruiter lying to me outright when asked about a job requiring security clearance

Doing my last gig I was making $25/hr on w-2 and was getting ready to move into something at $30 which didn't end up panning out because recruiters are awful. I got in the last stage on an Amazon Support Engineer interview but choked, I understand that was paying at $30-35, and had another gig that I interviewed for four times before they merged with another agency and put it on indefinite hold that was apparently going at $35? But now I've got another firm trying to get me into a helpdesk/admin hybrid role and they wanted to submit me over to this company they're working with at $45/hr and now I don't know what the gently caress I'm doing, have I been undervaluing myself all year here or is this new recruiting firm out of their mind?

I've been casting a really wide net outside of my market on remote gigs and I know sometimes recruiters get sorta spacy but legitimately I have no frame of reference for how these salaries are supposed to scale and the only thing I ever knew about what the guys down the hall from me was making was "enough that they all had 3d printers and nice cars"

PIZZA.BAT posted:

well they said i flew through their all-day interview with flying colors and want me to go on to speak with their director & vp. so this is looking like it's gonna be a solid win except the last few companies i interviewed with that i got excited about i also flew through until i talked with a director and suddenly got ghosted. not gonna get my hopes up.

in other news an actual engineering company that opened an office here recently (lol) posted a job opening that was basically my dream job a bit back. i applied and got a very strangely worded automated response that sounded like they were rejecting my application but not really? anyways they actually hit me up and want to talk to me starting this week. fingers crossed that this one works out

from my perspective: i have been looking at a lot of job descriptions and talking to a lot of recruiters and hiring managers lately and a common trend is "I really like your customer service background, we don't have enough of that" and what they almost always mean when they say that is "I am reassured by your background in an environment that expects you to routinely follow up on your tickets"

if the pay is good and the job title isn't terrible and dumb I think a couple of years doing helpdesk can only help you out, just don't get stuck there

and fwiw ticket work kinda grows on you after a while, its like cancer in that way

Mirthless fucked around with this message at 20:02 on Nov 10, 2020

Poopernickel
Oct 28, 2005

electricity bad

Fun Shoe

The Management posted:

hereís what you do:
make a list of all your accomplishments in a nice document. detail how you changed things and benefited the company and how youíve gone above and beyond your current role. print it out. set up a meeting with your director. in the meeting say that you believe you were incorrectly leveled at hire, that you are performing at a higher level, and that an adjustment is needed. give your document to your director. tell them to review that and look into it if they donít already know, and see if they agree. if they agree, they should be able to work with you to adjust your role and pay. if they donít, time to start looking elsewhere.

this is not asking for a raise, this is a correction to the hiring process, which is much easier for everyone to swallow. and donít sell yourself short on the increase amount. ask for a big bump.

This is good advice. Also if you follow it, be careful not to make an ultimatum - because then you have to follow through with it or you lose credibility.

Gazpacho
Jun 18, 2004

NUKE THEIR ASS
TAKE THEIR GAS


Slippery Tilde

pretty sure the video interviewer I sat for today was literally high off his rocket

dragon enthusiast
Jan 1, 2010


trying to figure out the best way to respond to "you didn't list <skill under beneficial qualifications> on your resume, do you have any experience in that?". best i can come up with is something along the lines of "no but I am in fact welcome to learning <skill> as the responsibilities of this opening better align with my career trajectory. here are some other OJT skills that i picked up quickly in my current and past jobs"

raminasi
Jan 25, 2005

a last drink with no ice


dragon enthusiast posted:

trying to figure out the best way to respond to "you didn't list <skill under beneficial qualifications> on your resume, do you have any experience in that?". best i can come up with is something along the lines of "no but I am in fact welcome to learning <skill> as the responsibilities of this opening better align with my career trajectory. here are some other OJT skills that i picked up quickly in my current and past jobs"

that sounds like an hr drone trying to get you through a filter, in which case the only answer they'll accept is "yes." how much you stretch the truth to get there is between you and god (and the hiring manager)

raminasi
Jan 25, 2005

a last drink with no ice


note that if i'm right, the hr drone will have no ability to determine whether your answer is a lie or even makes any sense

dragon enthusiast
Jan 1, 2010


there's a 100% chance I get asked about it during the technical screen if I answer yes, that's a deathtrap

Schadenboner
Aug 15, 2011

by Shine


dragon enthusiast posted:

there's a 100% chance I get asked about it during the technical screen if I answer yes, that's a deathtrap

Are we talking probability or theology here?

raminasi posted:

that sounds like an hr drone trying to get you through a filter, in which case the only answer they'll accept is "yes." how much you stretch the truth to get there is between you and god (and the hiring manager)

Steve Jorbs
Jan 1, 2009


dragon enthusiast posted:

there's a 100% chance I get asked about it during the technical screen if I answer yes, that's a deathtrap
So you either accept that you arenít qualified for the job or lie to get past the HR hurdle and into a meeting with someone who matters. I donít know what info the hiring manager will get, but as an interviewer Iíve never had more than their resume to go off of. If you donít lie on that they likely wonít really know.

Mirthless
Mar 27, 2011


raminasi posted:

that sounds like an hr drone trying to get you through a filter, in which case the only answer they'll accept is "yes." how much you stretch the truth to get there is between you and god (and the hiring manager)

I disagree with this - I do not have a high school diploma and every job I have ever gotten into I got into without previous experience in what I was doing

You need to find the closest applicable skill possible and apply it, even if it's nonprofessional experience. The recruiter does not do your job most of the time and has never done your job most of the time and all they know about is what's on the sheet in front of them (that they very definitely printed out because paper's free and so is toner) and most of the time an answer like "i set something like this up on my lab at home" or "i rent some cloud space and have practiced with it, I really like x, y, z feature (that i learned in the two hours before this job interview)" is usually enough to get over that hurdle

You definitely never want to lie about anything. It's okay to be evasive and it's okay to not offer any information you're not asked about. I make this mistake a lot myself but one of the most important things to avoid in a job interview is saying things like "I know I don't have experience in..." unbidden because it's not necessary, if they care they'll ask, and it's much easier to diffuse concerns when they're presenting them to you directly instead of when you're injecting them directly into their brain

I try to treat job interviews like I would any difficult tier 1 pibkac problem, lots of belly rubs and saying what they want to hear. Once you get on any job you're a useless noob until they train you on the environment or you figure it out on your own and a lot of questions like this don't actually come up when you're interviewing with the person who matters in the process most of the time.

dragon enthusiast posted:

trying to figure out the best way to respond to "you didn't list <skill under beneficial qualifications> on your resume, do you have any experience in that?". best i can come up with is something along the lines of "no but I am in fact welcome to learning <skill> as the responsibilities of this opening better align with my career trajectory. here are some other OJT skills that i picked up quickly in my current and past jobs"

try to avoid orienting answers around your career trajectory unless it's relevant to the question, some interviewers and recruiting managers don't like it. Try really hard to frame any barely relevant ancilliary skills as an asset to the team/company/profit margins and if your experience is largely in another role try to highlight that your strengths in those areas can make up for traditional weak spots in [job role]

Mirthless fucked around with this message at 15:24 on Nov 12, 2020

raminasi
Jan 25, 2005

a last drink with no ice


Mirthless posted:

I disagree with this - I do not have a high school diploma and every job I have ever gotten into I got into without previous experience in what I was doing

i wasnít generalizing. i suspect that in this particular case, the question came from a bureaucrat who is required (or feels that they are required) to check a box before forwarding the resume. i could be wrong though.

Gazpacho
Jun 18, 2004

NUKE THEIR ASS
TAKE THEIR GAS


Slippery Tilde

Mirthless posted:

I disagree with this - I do not have a high school diploma and every job I have ever gotten into I got into without previous experience in what I was doing

You need to find the closest applicable skill possible and apply it, even if it's nonprofessional experience. The recruiter does not do your job most of the time and has never done your job most of the time and all they know about is what's on the sheet in front of them (that they very definitely printed out because paper's free and so is toner) and most of the time an answer like "i set something like this up on my lab at home" or "i rent some cloud space and have practiced with it, I really like x, y, z feature (that i learned in the two hours before this job interview)" is usually enough to get over that hurdle

You definitely never want to lie about anything. It's okay to be evasive and it's okay to not offer any information you're not asked about. I make this mistake a lot myself but one of the most important things to avoid in a job interview is saying things like "I know I don't have experience in..." unbidden because it's not necessary, if they care they'll ask, and it's much easier to diffuse concerns when they're presenting them to you directly instead of when you're injecting them directly into their brain
no. lie like hell to anyone who stands between you and the client, as long as you're prepared to be truthful to the client. this is all the more true because the recruiter doesn't have the technical sense, but ego often drives them to pretend that they do by making dubious judgements as to which words on the JD are important

Gazpacho
Jun 18, 2004

NUKE THEIR ASS
TAKE THEIR GAS


Slippery Tilde

what i mean here is, answer the recruiter's questions with the understanding that the recruiter probably has no idea what they're asking

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'


job not found

fourwood
Sep 9, 2001

Damn I'll bring them to their knees.

the correct answer to a non-technical person asking if you have experience in a thing you donít is, at an absolute minimum, just bullshitting about whatever it is you know about it from the 5 minutes you googled it before the call

dragon enthusiast
Jan 1, 2010


based on a cursory LinkedIn search, I am in fact talking to an engineer promoted to manager and not an HR recruiter

raminasi
Jan 25, 2005

a last drink with no ice


dragon enthusiast posted:

based on a cursory LinkedIn search, I am in fact talking to an engineer promoted to manager and not an HR recruiter

in that case, you're likely either talking to someone who actually doesn't have time to ramp new hires up on technology (happens sometimes at early-stage startups), an rear end in a top hat who equates specific technical experience with quality, or a green manager who doesn't know how to hire. you might as well shoot your "no but i can learn" shot; the worst thing that happens is that you don't get hired for a job that wouldn't be a good fit.

polyester concept
Mar 29, 2017



i stayed at my current job way too long and i am extremely burned out and feeling like i've really stagnated the past several years.

so i started applying at places and i have a 15 minute phone interview on tuesday. another place sent me like an iq test, i guess to filter out the complete idiots? lol i dunno what to think about that

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps

Nap Ghost

you will see the most bullshit stuff if you interview enough and its always a red flag. best places ive been at are aggressively ostentatiously normal

Feisty-Cadaver
Jun 1, 2000
The worms crawl in,
The worms crawl out.

polyester concept posted:

another place sent me like an iq test, i guess to filter out the complete idiots? lol i dunno what to think about that

that's where you think i 100% do not want to work with these psychopaths

send them a scan of your skull and ask if you pass

Not a Children
Oct 9, 2012

Don't need a holster if you never stop shooting.



polyester concept posted:

i stayed at my current job way too long and i am extremely burned out and feeling like i've really stagnated the past several years.

so i started applying at places and i have a 15 minute phone interview on tuesday. another place sent me like an iq test, i guess to filter out the complete idiots? lol i dunno what to think about that

that poo poo is reading tea leaves and is in general a massive waste of time for everyone except the consultants that sold them the license. The cynic in me says itís a way for them to wriggle out of equal hiring protections and such

Pile Of Garbage
May 28, 2007





got a linkedin message from a recruiter for a FTE position and they actually included the potential pay-scale in the message ($110k - $130k AU plus super)! it wasn't much more than i'm getting right now, at least not enough to do citrix networking!

i guess maybe they're desperate?

champagne posting
Apr 5, 2006

YOU ARE A BRAIN
IN A BUNKER


anyone in this thread have experience living in and writing code for companies in the UAE? On the surface it looks awful, but awful with a ton of money.

kdrudy
Sep 19, 2009



Boiled Water posted:

anyone in this thread have experience living in and writing code for companies in the UAE? On the surface it looks awful, but awful with a ton of money.

I don't but man, after the things you read about foreign workers in that place I can't imagine any job there not being a trap of some kind.

ShadowHawk
Jun 25, 2000

The company has no assets of any significant value.


Boiled Water posted:

anyone in this thread have experience living in and writing code for companies in the UAE? On the surface it looks awful, but awful with a ton of money.

don't let them take your passport

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bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps

Nap Ghost

kdrudy posted:

I don't but man, after the things you read about foreign workers in that place I can't imagine any job there not being a trap of some kind.

thats for indian and bangladeshi and pakistani peeps

if you keep your passport you will only have the great feeling of working for/in a polity that effectively does slavery

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