Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
ADINSX
Sep 9, 2003

Wanna run with my crew huh? Rule cyberspace and crunch numbers like I do?



ultrafilter posted:

Varies by location, but yeah, the very mathy jobs are a very small part of the overall market.

If you're a "mathy programmer" you might be applying to "Data Scientist" jobs anyway. They're are a lot more "math" than "programmer" (in that its working code, but I would never ever want to ship it), but that's actual computer scientists anyway

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

champagne posting
Apr 5, 2006

YOU ARE A BRAIN
IN A BUNKER


matti posted:

yeah i should learn to get over my own perceived complexes

good luck with that. I have a masters degree and just a crushing amount of imposter syndrome.

Blinkz0rz posted:

it's definitely less

i want to dispute this number but i can't

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps

Nap Ghost

yeah it used to be like 0.01% and then the stats and ml poo poo boom happened. real peeps math ("you are expected to know what a cohomology is") is still 0.01% tho

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.
:fart:



Quant finance has been a larger part of the job market than that since at least the early 2000s. It's just not terribly visible because it's super-concentrated in one industry and a few locations, and a lot of the jobs don't use the same titles as everyone else.

Cut that out, though, and you're looking at a very small part of the market.

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps

Nap Ghost

ultrafilter posted:

Quant finance has been a larger part of the job market than that since at least the early 2000s. It's just not terribly visible because it's super-concentrated in one industry and a few locations, and a lot of the jobs don't use the same titles as everyone else.

Cut that out, though, and you're looking at a very small part of the market.

quant finance is very much a part of the stats and ml poo poo boom and its not in the 0.01% lol

by the 0.01% i mean the dude i know who proves theorems about toposes for money for a brutally obscure database product that needs this poo poo somehow

Rebus
Jan 18, 2006

Meanwhile, somewhere in Grove, work begins on next season's Williams F1 car...


Boiled Water posted:

I have a masters degree and just a crushing amount of imposter syndrome.

I'm head of department and I have this too

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.
:fart:



bob dobbs is dead posted:

quant finance is very much a part of the stats and ml poo poo boom and its not in the 0.01% lol

No one was doing stats in quant finance before about 2004 or so, and a lot of what happened after predates the ML boom. But if you're claiming that a job solving SDEs isn't very mathy, then I guess we've just got different standards.

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps

Nap Ghost

ultrafilter posted:

No one was doing stats in quant finance before about 2004 or so, and a lot of what happened after predates the ML boom. But if you're claiming that a job solving SDEs isn't very mathy, then I guess we've just got different standards.

last time i heard the s in sde stands for stochastic

yeah yeah the ito calc peeps are not even close to the ml peeps and they never talk to each other. but the underlying dealio is greatly increased data flows that have sometimes required mathmatically competent peeps who code, as opposed to other weird poo poo w math

Blinkz0rz
May 27, 2001

MY CONTEMPT FOR MY OWN EMPLOYEES IS ONLY MATCHED BY MY LOVE FOR TOM BRADY'S SWEATY MAGA BALLS


it's basically quant, ml, data science, and game engine design which is like, a few thousand jobs at most

bls says there was 230k programming jobs in 2019 but that's a super narrow category because it also claims 1.5 million software developers

so even if we say 10-15k "math" software jobs that's less than 1% and that's also assuming that those 2 bls categories include all programmers (hint, it doesn't)

all this is to say you can be a successful and well paid computer toucher without knowing any kind of "real" math

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.
:fart:



You're missing jobs related to physics-based simulations. It doesn't change your conclusions, but there are a fair amount of jobs in that field. They're just entirely concentrated in industries that people here basically never think of.

champagne posting
Apr 5, 2006

YOU ARE A BRAIN
IN A BUNKER


ultrafilter posted:

You're missing jobs related to physics-based simulations. There are a fair amount of jobs in that field, but they're entirely concentrated in industries that people here aren't thinking of.

oil, gas and bombing people ?

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.
:fart:



A lot of engineering companies do simulated designs before they build anything as well, but yeah, the DoD is one of the big employers there.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.
:fart:



Also there are random jobs for numerical methods people in places you might not expect. Sometimes those people are called data scientists or quants, but it's really a different skillset from what those titles usually refer to.

Blinkz0rz
May 27, 2001

MY CONTEMPT FOR MY OWN EMPLOYEES IS ONLY MATCHED BY MY LOVE FOR TOM BRADY'S SWEATY MAGA BALLS


sure but the op was feeling anxious about not having a math background, not worried that he couldn't find a math job

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.
:fart:



We're pretty far past what the OP was talking about by now.

RokosCockatrice
Feb 19, 2004

I have a lot of points to make and I will make them later.


no I think it's important we circle back, if we don't make the guy feel bad about his lack of a math degree there's a very low chance his future job will

MrMoo
Sep 14, 2000



I'm starting to interview for new hires again. I gave a developer with three.js on their resume a simple task of animating a logo however they saw fit, about 5-10mins work. Apparently they couldn't do it and their "job coach" recommended against doing it. I guess as a screening method it works?

I have to hire a junior operations "devops" position, absolutely no idea how to test them. All the resumes are copy paste of every industry term possible.

Asymmetric POSTer
Aug 17, 2005



MrMoo posted:

Apparently they couldn't do it and their "job coach" recommended against doing it.

lol

champagne posting
Apr 5, 2006

YOU ARE A BRAIN
IN A BUNKER


I thought the idea of juniors were that they have good intentions and you train them

I guess call some of them and see what theyre like

MrMoo
Sep 14, 2000



They all seem nice on the phone. This one in particular only had three.js on their resume, so I called them out on it.

I think were after junior because there is not that much work or complexity. They can grow in the role and most likely leave once a process is in place, for a more challenging position.

TerminalRaptor
Nov 6, 2012

Mostly Harmless


MrMoo posted:

their "job coach" recommended against doing it.

Funny way to write "mom"

MrMoo
Sep 14, 2000



Took me all of three minutes to Google and make an example on jsfiddle, for perspective to the crazy take homes reported here. It looks awful, but that doesn't really matter:

https://jsfiddle.net/ho2zbaxr/

RokosCockatrice
Feb 19, 2004

I have a lot of points to make and I will make them later.


In my experience there has been no correlation between what a devop is like and how successful they are, or by what metrics. There's no middle ground here, for some reason the state of the art seems to be nothing but trilemmas on steroids. I guess I'm trying to say despite doing most of the devops work on my team I still have no idea what to test for when hiring another one.

Corla Plankun
May 8, 2007

improve the lives of everyone


ask them what the last thing that made them really mad at work was, to see if they have a personality disorder or not and also to see how deep into the infra they got

RokosCockatrice
Feb 19, 2004

I have a lot of points to make and I will make them later.


That's an evilly genius question

Schadenboner
Aug 15, 2011

by Shine


Welp, interview on Monday. I'm pretty sure this is just a practice interview because "From $X per hour" usually means "Up to $X.01 per hour" but we'll see.

It would be nice not to be NOC anymore and get back into proper IT work again, at least?

ultravoices
May 10, 2004

You are about to embark on a great journey. Are you ready, my friend?


the place i interviewed with four months ago called me up and said "our new director is really excited to talk to you" so i guess i'll talk to them.

Pile Of Garbage
May 28, 2007





Schadenboner posted:

Welp, interview on Monday. I'm pretty sure this is just a practice interview because "From $X per hour" usually means "Up to $X.01 per hour" but we'll see.

It would be nice not to be NOC anymore and get back into proper IT work again, at least?

good luck buddy!

CarForumPoster
Jun 26, 2013

⚡POWER⚡


ultravoices posted:

the place i interviewed with four months ago called me up and said "our new director is really excited to talk to you" so i guess i'll talk to them.

good luck!

(the person they hired didnt start or they opened a new req)

ultravoices
May 10, 2004

You are about to embark on a great journey. Are you ready, my friend?


CarForumPoster posted:

good luck!

(the person they hired didnt start or they opened a new req)

that's likely not wrong, although I think it's the latter. trying to puzzle it out is kremlinology though.

i'll put up with being jerked off for months and hopping through the required hoops in exchange for how good my inside sources say this company is to work for + the amount of money + the insanely good benefits + the positioning it will put me in 3ish years if I want to move along.

ultravoices
May 10, 2004

You are about to embark on a great journey. Are you ready, my friend?


Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh
Offer paperwork tomorrow
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh

(it's more money than I was expecting.

never give a number.)

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps

Nap Ghost

great

now ask for more

fourwood
Sep 9, 2001

Damn I'll bring them to their knees.

bob dobbs is dead posted:

great

now ask for more
:hai:

RokosCockatrice
Feb 19, 2004

I have a lot of points to make and I will make them later.


Place I'm applying for is asking for a 20 minute presentation on a technical topic, preferrably a project I've completed somewhere else. What the gently caress just give me a takehome job for a week

DELETE CASCADE
Oct 25, 2017

i haven't washed my penis since i jerked it to a phtotograph of george w. bush in 2003


i would much rather give an animated 20 minute talk on something i'm excited about having built than go through the usual gauntlet of bullshit whiteboard interviews

The Fool
Oct 16, 2003



yah, Ive got a half dozen projects that I could easily wax on about for 20 minutes or more

Id take that over most take homes any day

Blinkz0rz
May 27, 2001

MY CONTEMPT FOR MY OWN EMPLOYEES IS ONLY MATCHED BY MY LOVE FOR TOM BRADY'S SWEATY MAGA BALLS


we do that and it owns

we had a candidate who used to be in the navy and did a presentation on how nuclear subs work

Steve Jorbs
Jan 1, 2009


I did one a couple of jobs. I avoid public speaking but I enjoyed crafting a presentation of my choosing and it helped as an ice breaker with everyone on the team. Overall a positive experience.

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004





lol holy poo poo depending on how much i cared if either do bog standard "i made a thing to exploit a thing" or "gently caress yeah we're talking about the sickness unto death now"

that would be so good. a buddy of mine got to do a presentation when they interviewed (successfully) at activision a few years ago. i've never got to do that though

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

kitten smoothie
Dec 29, 2001



Bossy posted:

Place I'm applying for is asking for a 20 minute presentation on a technical topic, preferrably a project I've completed somewhere else. What the gently caress just give me a takehome job for a week

I had to do one of these. I had to submit the deck a couple days in advance and they distributed it internally to the panel.

During the presentation it became clear they didnt care about the content, it was a test on how you thought on your feet. They would chuck questions at me and deliberately try to hijack the conversation. Real obvious attempts, too, like someone would stop me to ask a question about a 100% unrelated thing that was two slides further in. The whole thing felt like a big improv comedy bit and I was there as the unwitting stooge.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply