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just to add another data point for how slow poo poo is moving. I referred a guy with 20y relevant experience and he’s just now getting the “take home” after doing his initial phone screen 3 weeks ago. it’ll be another month before his gauntlet interviews I’m sure
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Mar 15, 2023 01:07
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AWWNAW posted:how slow poo poo is moving you need more fibre my friend
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Mar 15, 2023 02:32
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anyone have good resources on rubrics for technical interviews? I've managed to convince my company that they need one but nobody involved has made one before
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Mar 15, 2023 14:46
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what are some good ways to find part-time work? does anyone ever post salaried positions where the expectation is just that you work less, or is it all contract/self-employment work? if it's the latter, what are the best resources to use to find work?Asleep Style posted:anyone have good resources on rubrics for technical interviews? I've managed to convince my company that they need one but nobody involved has made one before idk, but i'd just start by sitting down with the ppl involved in hiring and discuss what criteria they currently use for a hire or no hire consider the types of signal you get across different types of interviews (you're looking for slightly different things between a coding interview and a systems design interview) and different levels (e.g. you don't expect a fresh grad to do well on systems design) this is assuming you're looking to make a document to guide discussion between the people involved in the interview process, and not a list of hard-and-fast rules that aims to take all subjectivity out of interviewing (which you will invariably fail in doing)
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Mar 15, 2023 16:53
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Pie Colony posted:what are some good ways to find part-time work? does anyone ever post salaried positions where the expectation is just that you work less, or is it all contract/self-employment work? if it's the latter, what are the best resources to use to find work? the word you're looking for is 'fractional', and typically applies to leadership roles more individual contributor roles
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Mar 15, 2023 16:55
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dioxazine posted:while this was my kneejerk reaction, i'm really looking to get out of here. it's a toxic workplace and mentally heinous for me a 24-hour offer deadline is a bad sign about the new place in those regards though
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Mar 15, 2023 17:06
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true! after sitting around for an evening and thinking about this (thanks, mates. i love you possers). i decided to send a counter that they absolutely would not accept at 40% higher and patiently explained to them what the market rate is in the local area they tried calling me three times within twenty minutes of the mail. i didn't answer. feels a bit like justice edit: i'll call them back this afternoon, i think. just to break it off cleanly dioxazine fucked around with this message at 18:32 on Mar 15, 2023 |
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Mar 15, 2023 18:25
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dioxazine posted:true! after sitting around for an evening and thinking about this (thanks, mates. i love you possers). i decided to send a counter that they absolutely would not accept at 40% higher and patiently explained to them what the market rate is in the local area Letting ‘em cook is the right move. Wouldn’t be surprised if they email you before the call
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Mar 15, 2023 19:13
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dioxazine posted:true! after sitting around for an evening and thinking about this (thanks, mates. i love you possers). i decided to send a counter that they absolutely would not accept at 40% higher and patiently explained to them what the market rate is in the local area my money is on them using the opportunity to brow beat you one more time. They’ll explain how actually you need to consider the total benefits package they’re offering, like the [lovely pto package], potential bonuses [based on factors primarily outside your control], potential for career growth [that will never materialize], or the team pizza party if everyone has been an especially good boy good luck
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Mar 15, 2023 23:50
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you're gonna leave a $75 amazon gift card on the table? [note: it's actually "an opportunity" for "up to $75" worth of gift cards; it's just a $50 gift card]
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Mar 16, 2023 00:36
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Clockwerk posted:my money is on them using the opportunity to brow beat you one more time. They’ll explain how actually you need to consider the total benefits package they’re offering, like the [lovely pto package], potential bonuses [based on factors primarily outside your control], potential for career growth [that will never materialize], or the team pizza party if everyone has been an especially good boy i fully went in accepting the call with this exact expectation and no intention on accepting whatever they offered and it delivered! they didn't budge a metre, so i spent a little time lecturing the HR manager after the PTO, bonuses, and benefits spiel on how compensation is the primary factor of motivation for accepting employment for the majority of workers and that my ask was a hard requirement and thanked her for her time, wished her the best of luck in finding another candidate and dropped the best part was probably the song and dance about how they don't consider market rate relevant to them as they compare only with other credit unions with regards to salaries
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Mar 16, 2023 01:43
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dioxazine posted:i fully went in accepting the call with this exact expectation and no intention on accepting whatever they offered and it delivered! when you’re trying to get out of a lovely situation, just about anything looks like a potential lifeline. so good for you sticking to your guns It’s also an interesting play by them to limit their hiring pool to software engineer who are legally prohibited from employment anywhere that is not a credit union. I wonder how long they’ve been looking, or what their existing talent pool is like
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Mar 16, 2023 04:15
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I’d guess they just don’t have the budget and are trying to put a brave face on it. we had to go all the way up to the cfo of a publicly traded company for approval to go 20% over original budget to get a guy last year
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Mar 16, 2023 04:21
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yeah what qirex said. just because someone says something like that doesn't mean that they believe it. it means that they're trying to convince you that it's not such a raw deal and you should take the job you know. because the actual remuneration isn't enough to convince you in the first place
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Mar 16, 2023 04:26
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I don’t know why credit unions have a good reputation with anyone. They’re terrible. I tried negotiating salary with one in Colorado Springs ~10 years ago for a very midlevel position and they were cheap assholes about it. Terrible benefits too. Years later I worked with a few as clients and it was the same story. Not sure what their deal is as an industry, I’ve assumed nickel and diming their employees/vendors is how they offer cheap services to their clients.
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Mar 16, 2023 11:08
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Most credit unions are non-profits. So the mental model is pretty different, and they tend to be money-conscious in a way that banks aren't.
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Mar 16, 2023 20:22
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dioxazine posted:so i spent a little time lecturing the HR manager after the PTO, bonuses, and benefits spiel on how compensation is the primary factor of motivation for accepting employment for the majority of workers This would get you put on my “no I’m not going to consider this person in the future” poo poo list.
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Mar 16, 2023 20:54
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tk posted:This would get you put on my “no I’m not going to consider this person in the future” poo poo list. so it would be mutual then? not really a loss
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Mar 16, 2023 20:57
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tk posted:This would get you put on my “no I’m not going to consider this person in the future” poo poo list. Who cares
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Mar 16, 2023 20:57
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Changing nonprofits (apparently) minds about paying people, one lecture at a time
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Mar 16, 2023 21:02
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raminasi posted:so it would be mutual then? not really a loss No. dioxazine doesn’t want the job because somebody somewhere else won’t give me enough budget right now. That sucks, but budget situations change. I’ll keep dioxazine in mind and maybe next year I can reach back out with more money. But if I find out dioxazine thought it was their place to lecture somebody who was told to go say “sorry we can’t give you more money” its going to make me think I’m constantly going to have to be explaining basic person to person interactions with them and that sound loving exhausting.
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Mar 16, 2023 21:09
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it takes decent peeps to continue a market at relative dynamical steady state and assholes to move a market
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Mar 16, 2023 21:12
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lecturing a recruiter strikes me like breaking out a whiteboard to lecture the worker at an impound lot? they don't give a poo poo, IC with a job and your diagram of the parking space you were towed from isn't moving their available actions. the end result doesn't change, we can get to the part where I pay and get my car faster without it. sure you can but idk what effect it'll have or why you'd bother spending your time that way
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Mar 16, 2023 22:35
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tk posted:This would get you put on my “no I’m not going to consider this person in the future” poo poo list. i would never have done that if not for the super low ball and the 24h offer expiration, as well as the general rudeness with which the HR manager approached our final call after i sent the counter offer. at no time was the hiring budget mentioned and she was very aggressive in trying to get me to accept by downplaying my experience and saying certain parts of it were irrelevant to the position and stating that their rate would never be close to survivable all in all, it was as professional as it could be in the heat of the moment and if i am on that business' poo poo list, so be it? i am not interested in ever working with them in any capacity
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Mar 16, 2023 22:53
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dioxazine posted:i would never have done that if Then you shouldn’t have done it. Nobody made you be a jerk, you did that all on your own. dioxazine posted:all in all, it was as professional as it could be in the heat of the moment and if i am on that business' poo poo list, so be it? i am not interested in ever working with them in any capacity Your takeaway of “well it was the most perfect response” is horse poo poo. You’re in the same place as you were yesterday except now a handful of people at a business think you’re a jerk. It probably won’t impact you. But maybe in a couple years HR Manager will be at another business and in a position to lose your resume in the shuffle. I know that “don’t be a jerk” is something that a lot of folks have trouble with but “don’t burn your bridges” seems like a it should be pretty non-controversial in the interviewing thread.
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Mar 16, 2023 23:22
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technically, i'm not. as i just received an offer a few hours ago, but cheers for continuing to make assumptions and trying to foreshadow my future employment prospects i really appreciate you being aggressively condescending towards me over something that doesn't affect you in the least i'd like to de-escalate and move on, so would you please agree to disagree?
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Mar 16, 2023 23:27
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theyre aggressively condescending to everyone, its just something about bein in management
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Mar 16, 2023 23:30
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i kinda figured that your "lectured" was just you saying that it was too little and that comp matters, and that you didn't actually lecture anyone in any meaningful sense because dear lord who would do that.
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Mar 16, 2023 23:31
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hr managers aren’t people, don’t feel bad for lecturing them
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Mar 16, 2023 23:32
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yes they are. but theyre mostly poopbutts i bet
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Mar 16, 2023 23:32
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yeah, it was a turn of phrase, i just simply said that it was too little and that comp is usually the most important factor for most people when considering hopping jobs. took less than a minute
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Mar 16, 2023 23:32
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dioxazine posted:yeah, it was a turn of phrase, i just simply said that it was too little and that comp is the most important factor for most people when considering hopping jobs. took less than a minute hell yeah i figured. i think tk, jawn, and others were thinking you went full how on 'em. saying what you did is 100% the right thing to do, i think our wires just got crossed cause this is the internet
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Mar 16, 2023 23:33
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also, the reason managers took it that way is probably because they do interviews and have seen some crazy how-esque motherfuckers out there. i've never been a hiring manager but i _have_ been the one responsible for building teams and while most people are cool and good, you get some weird no-social-skills people. as bdid would say, market for lemons (on both sides, tbh)
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Mar 16, 2023 23:34
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Achmed Jones posted:hell yeah i figured. i think tk, jawn, and others were thinking you went full how on 'em. saying what you did is 100% the right thing to do, i think our wires just got crossed cause this is the internet i'm usually too much of a pushover to soapbox like that, especially for someone who likely does not influence corporate policy for payroll
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Mar 16, 2023 23:36
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friend of mine had a “just a chat, not a technical” interview and within 15 mins was being grilled on her knowledge of the owasp top 10. total dick move and if you do it i hate you
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Mar 16, 2023 23:37
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tk posted:Your takeaway of “well it was the most perfect response” is horse poo poo. You’re in the same place as you were yesterday except now a handful of people at a business think you’re a jerk. It probably won’t impact you. But maybe in a couple years HR Manager will be at another business and in a position to lose your resume in the shuffle. i see what you're saying here but it's not always this black and white. there are absolutely times where telling the other party to go gently caress themselves is warranted. it's important to have boundaries and to push back when people are unprofessional now, that being said, if i was dealing with standard rear end in a top hat hr negging during a negotiation i'd just give them a curt, 'i understand. good luck with the search *click*' response the hiring manager who literally called me a bad person who only cared about money because i told them i had another higher offer? yeah those are the types you *want* to cut off and also let the others working at the company know exactly what happened needing to call someone out as an rear end in a top hat is something that should happen very rarely, but it does happen. so if you find that you're falling into the latter category more than rarely than you may want to check the bottom of your shoe
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Mar 16, 2023 23:46
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dioxazine posted:yeah, it was a turn of phrase, i just simply said that it was too little and that comp is usually the most important factor for most people when considering hopping jobs. took less than a minute tip for future negotiations- never ever try to justify your number. your number is your number, full stop. you don't have to justify poo poo. either they can meet it or they can't. if they show that they aren't willing to budge then every further second you spend on that call is a waste of time repeat after me: 'i understand. sorry we couldn't come to an agreement. good luck with the search and have a nice day  ' *click*
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Mar 16, 2023 23:50
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god, are y'all honest in exit interviews too?? really give them some stuff to think about?
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Mar 17, 2023 00:08
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Again, who cares. It's all poo poo. Work sucks; do whatever lets you sleep at night. One of my least favorite interviews was when a guy took me to lunch and alternated between asking me questions and imploring me to eat when I kept putting down my utensils so I wouldn't be tempted to talk with my mouth full lol
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Mar 17, 2023 00:49
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“yes yes, this one will fatten up nicely…anyways tell me about a time you dealt with requirements changing midway through a project”
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Mar 17, 2023 00:55
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