|
i've been seeing listings for recruiter positions and just, lol, no
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2023 19:14
|
|
|
|
| # ? Mar 28, 2025 14:06 |
|
|
one of the most important tasks of salespeeps is lying. if you cant lie while selling it or if it isnt profitable to lie while sellin it it doesnt get sold by salespeeps it gets sold in vending machines. so you dont know, unless you're relatively certain that you're actually in their confidence and not just like at the, 'oh i got a cousin gotta say stuff to em' level
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2023 19:16
|
|
|
just passed on a sales position this morning actually, i don't think i can do it
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2023 19:17
|
|
|
Beeftweeter posted:just passed on wow 
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2023 19:19
|
|
|
its true im a post ghost
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2023 19:19
|
|
|
CPColin posted:Life goals: easy, unless rotor is benjamin button
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2023 19:20
|
|
|
Beeftweeter posted:its true im a post ghost Hell is other posters.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2023 19:24
|
|
|
The Fool posted:easy, unless rotor is benjamin button The ratio of rotor's age to my age will approach 1 asymptotically the longer this goes on 
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2023 19:33
|
|
|
rotor posted:2) When someone approaches you about a job in a company you have ethical issues with, let the recruiter know in a way that is possible for them to pass up the chain. It is the smallest, tiniest thing you can do to effect change. If facebook knows they're facing recruiting challenges because no one wants to work for Democracy Subversion Inc then that is a small piece of pressure to change for the better. An angry rant wont get passed up the chain. I have a form letter, feel free to file it away somewhere: i've come to the conclusion that number 2 is basically worthless. i've tried politely saying the above almost verbatim, i've tried saying more directly "i will never work for your organization, please stop contacting me". i've seriously set up auto-forward rules from company domains to forward to senior leadership along with a message that i'd like to no longer be contacted by the company again. yet somehow for the last decade i continue to receive quarterly emails from meta and palantir recruiters.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2023 19:37
|
|
|
recruiter turnover is similar to boiler room sales or fast food restaurant
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2023 19:39
|
|
|
nudgenudgetilt posted:i've come to the conclusion that number 2 is basically worthless. i've tried politely saying the above almost verbatim, i've tried saying more directly "i will never work for your organization, please stop contacting me". i've seriously set up auto-forward rules from company domains to forward to senior leadership along with a message that i'd like to no longer be contacted by the company again. yeah the intent is not to stop the recruiter spam - that will never happen - it's to give those recruiters something to wave at their management chain when they miss their quotas. One day that management chain might actually do something to make the company less awful.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2023 19:48
|
|
|
rotor posted:I have actually been bitten by being honest in an exit interview. Most of my advice comes from making really lovely choices in my life. this happened to me in my very first exit interview when it sounded like they genuinely cared as to whether i was leaving. ever since then, i just give the blandest and positive statements
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2023 19:51
|
|
|
who the gently caress is scraeming "BE LESS AWFUL" at my house. show yourself, coward. i will never be less awful
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2023 19:51
|
|
|
i kinda think the best 10% of recruiters are really good, and likely then also enjoy their jobs. and also cost very real money to hire, so lets try a random guy with a chatgpt bot first.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2023 22:16
|
|
|
The best recruiters are working at executive search firms. If you're a generic computer toucher, you probably won't be talking to them.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2023 22:22
|
|
|
Define ‘best’ and ‘executive search firm’ because if the few I’ve worked with on either side are representative samples they are just lower volume recruiters with all the same bullshit normal recruiters got going on. A lot of that isn’t boutique anymore either and is just smushed together with regular search firms
|
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2023 22:33
|
|
|
no way most recruiters aren't the hr equivalent of the guys who rig a motor up to a hot dog to swipe right on tinder all day
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2023 22:43
|
|
|
bob dobbs is dead posted:one of the most important tasks of salespeeps is lying. if you cant lie while selling it or if it isnt profitable to lie while sellin it it doesnt get sold by salespeeps it gets sold in vending machines. so you dont know, unless you're relatively certain that you're actually in their confidence and not just like at the, 'oh i got a cousin gotta say stuff to em' level you got some weird familial hang ups if your gut reaction is "surely they were lying to me, how can anyone possibly enjoy that job". yes im sure they enjoyed it at the time
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2023 22:45
|
|
|
recruiters fall into the same issue as job hunting itself or dating. the bad ones never make any connections so they sit there on the market for everyone to encounter. yeah most recruiters are the hotdog on tinder type but every now and then you'll find a good one and man is it a night and day difference
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2023 22:56
|
|
|
The one good recruiter i had made it explicitly clear they didnt get commission or w/e for placing me, idk how common or not that is
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2023 23:05
|
|
|
Mr. Crow posted:The one good recruiter i had made it explicitly clear they didnt get commission or w/e for placing me, idk how common or not that is my understanding is that in-house recruiters are normally like that
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2023 23:09
|
|
|
ultrafilter posted:The best recruiters are working at executive search firms. If you're a generic computer toucher, you probably won't be talking to them. eh, there’s also ones that specialize in very specific things but “generic computer toucher” isn’t specific I guess.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2023 00:16
|
|
|
in house recruiters are far better than 3rd party ones, but they're still recruiters
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2023 00:22
|
|
|
if you're a hiring manager for facebook or whatever then you have access to salary surveys in the regions where you are recruiting. if you have access to salary surveys then you can quite easily impute a dollar price for a conscience being sold on the open market. it ain't much. certainly far less than the revenue that it brings in. telling companies you won't work for them because they're evil in the hopes that this will actually change anything is somewhat naive i think.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2023 00:34
|
|
|
Sapozhnik posted:telling companies you won't work for them because they're evil in the hopes that this will actually change anything is somewhat naive i think. If it gets bad enough they might change the name of the company.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2023 00:38
|
|
|
Sapozhnik posted:telling companies you won't work for them because they're evil in the hopes that this will actually change anything is somewhat naive i think. I did say it was the tiniest thing you could do. I think if it became a more common practice it might have an effect. Landslides are often made up of small rocks and so on.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2023 00:56
|
|
|
also to counter the ‘don’t say anything in the exit interview’ talk i absolutely let it rip in one of mine and all of my ex coworkers got raises and promotions a few months later. the company genuinely did not realize nor care to realize how vital retaining good tech talent was and they were suffering heavily for it. they’d already lost the cto a year before i left and still hadn’t replaced him and were already struggling just to keep the lights on i was a junior at the time that they had running shop for their biggest customer so i think when i bailed they finally realized that just one of us leaving at an inopportune time could cost them millions in lost revenue. i dont think it was solely me leaving that caused the change but i definitely had an influence ultimately didn’t matter because they went under a year later and got bought out by a competitor anyways. lol
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2023 03:06
|
|
Probably cause of your lovely advice to pay everyone! Oh well  As someone who has spent the bulk of their career getting exit interview feedback, I can assure you I don’t care and I’ve never met a manager who does. Best case, it’s salty BS from someone I wanted to quit anyways cause I was sick of hearing it. Worst case, it’s something I know about and probably can’t fix anyways unless upper management cares. Funny case you talk poo poo about me on the way out.
|
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2023 03:35
|
|
|
i have spent my whole career so far working for companies with less than 100 people. i still remember the bureaucracy of universities, and i get the impression that big companies are more like that. everyone just knows their role and shuts their mouth, you are very unlikely to cause any real change. but i have a hard time taking this advice into account myself, because i can easily just talk to the ceo who can override any policy he wants. if it's important enough for me i just have to use the political capital and push for it. at the end of the day if he says no it's still no, but i can and have had feedback listened to and implemented. i've been at this company over 7 years, and if i decided to move on, i'm pretty sure they would be seriously interested to hear why (although the reason would only be "massively more money" and that'd be that, but still)
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2023 05:15
|
|
|
The problem is that 99% of people don’t wait for an exit interview to say something like that. Has nothing to do with whether people can affect positive change at any sized company, if you waited until then I can wipe my rear end with that feedback and why are you telling the Corporate hall monitors about this poo poo they definitely can’t do anything about it.
|
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2023 05:23
|
|
|
DELETE CASCADE posted:i have spent my whole career so far working for companies with less than 100 people. i still remember the bureaucracy of universities, and i get the impression that big companies are more like that. everyone just knows their role and shuts their mouth, you are very unlikely to cause any real change. but i have a hard time taking this advice into account myself, because i can easily just talk to the ceo who can override any policy he wants. if it's important enough for me i just have to use the political capital and push for it. at the end of the day if he says no it's still no, but i can and have had feedback listened to and implemented. i've been at this company over 7 years, and if i decided to move on, i'm pretty sure they would be seriously interested to hear why (although the reason would only be "massively more money" and that'd be that, but still) i've been at places that are about this size too, but always as a legal entity owned by some bigger corp. still though it's nice to have a smaller set of people to deal with for issues and benefits etc, as well as the cash fountain from the megacorp. i don't give real deets in exit interviews but i've certainly given direct and frank feedback to people i work directly with
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2023 05:29
|
|
|
i am a moron posted:The problem is that 99% of people don’t wait for an exit interview to say something like that. Has nothing to do with whether people can affect positive change at any sized company, if you waited until then I can wipe my rear end with that feedback and why are you telling the Corporate hall monitors about this poo poo they definitely can’t do anything about it. oh you’re leaving? I wish you had given me this feedback yesterday, then it would have been acted upon, but now time has passed and I must wipe my rear end with it
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2023 03:20
|
|
Clockwerk posted:oh you’re leaving? I wish you had given me this feedback yesterday, then it would have been acted upon, but now time has passed and I must wipe my rear end with it Yea maybe. Not anything anyone can do after someone leaves, and if you think HR is going to do something for other people then lol We had a ton of turnover a year ago so our divisions leadership asked people who worked for the company, what would help you stick around? As it turns out we were time slicing people on projects too much so we went to our sales team and said project assignments are 20 hour minimums from now on so we don’t get people assigned to any more than two at once. People asked for more money so we did a company wide inflation adjustment. None of it was based on exit interviews - those folks are gone, and if they left for more money good for them. You aren’t going to divine every unbeatable individual salary, and sometimes you really don’t want to anyways.
|
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2023 03:52
|
|
|
I gave an honest exit interview when I left a place I had worked for over a decade and it was one of the most cathartic things I have ever done. The goal was two fold though: stick the finger in the wound and remind leadership how badly they had hosed up, and intentionally burn the bridge just enough that no matter how badly things got I would not under any circumstances return back there. It helped that I knew enough about the process though as I knew the leadership chain in the department reads the exit interviews, and I wanted to validate the feelings of some of the people in that chain who I still cared about. CTO, who was a jackass but ran an effective department, retired, and the org brought in someone from the sales/marketing side of the house to run things because his old leadership chain couldn't tie their shoes without him telling them to, and we needed to "modernize". Hilarity ensured. Person they brought in to replace him got poo poo canned, after loving up the department so bad we couldn't ship working software. The failed reorg they ran left every team critically understaffed. Their genius solution was to lay off a good chunk of the department ("they had skills that weren't needed for the direction we're heading in"), and start outsourcing. I'll never forgive the CEO for telling the entire company three weeks before that "we know the department is short staffed and we've committed to hiring 300 people this year." This was also at the peak of the great resignation. What ensued was every single person worth a drat in the department jumping ship. Like entire teams quitting. It was spectacular to witness. They couldn't throw enough money at anyone to stay. I've never seen a company blow its own dick off in such a spectacular fashion. The company had a stellar reputation in the region before that too. All gone over night. I know from friends I had in HR that they were at wits end with the dev department. HR does spend a lot of time trying to generate good press for an org and can get pissed at leaders who actively damage the companies reputation. I saw afterwards that an internal department survey had R&D at a negative 50 nps score. Anyways I wanted to vent about that so this gave me a good excuse. I will add if you do go that route in your exit interview, keep it professional. Do not call out any individual for the reasons other posters have mentioned above. You will run into people again in the industry and the last thing you need is someone with a vendetta.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2023 06:20
|
|
|
getting passed on after interviewing 4+ times at a company over a month+ feels so loving bad I jave never had this ratio of getting interviews to not landing a job in the 15 years of my career I lnow it's a numbers game but it's way easier to handle rejection at interview 1 than after a month of writing code and architecture for a place on and off
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2023 12:05
|
|
|
That sounds really demoralizing. Remember that the default result is no job. I had a month long process recently, with interviews all the way up the hiring chain, only to realize at the end that I could never have succeeded. They had an internal candidate picked out and we’re just going through the motions with me to tick comparison process boxes. I’m lucky that I browbeat the recruiter into telling me that, or I'd feel exactly as you do.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2023 12:19
|
|
|
Chopstick Dystopia posted:getting passed on after interviewing 4+ times at a company over a month+ feels so loving bad I jave never had this ratio of getting interviews to not landing a job in the 15 years of my career it sucks so much. it's much worse than not getting an interview at all
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2023 13:38
|
|
|
after the bulk of the engineering department wrote letters to the board indicating our concern that the C-suite had allowed all the women in the company to be harassed out of the company by a VP and be told, in these words, "<VP> is staying", and then after my resignation being asked to join the CEO for an exit interview, well, starting to think that being honest in an exit interview or anywhere else might not move the needle
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2023 16:09
|
|
|
exit interviews are a bit paradoxical to me, in that if i’m leaving the company because of big structural issues with it that made me hate the place, then i’m sure as gently caress not going to spend the effort to explain/go over them when i’m not getting paid for it. gently caress ‘em, they don’t deserve the help.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2023 16:16
|
|
|
|
| # ? Mar 28, 2025 14:06 |
|
|
AnoHito posted:gently caress ‘em, they don’t deserve the help. Basically. If you think you can say something to help out people you give a poo poo about still there then talk about that, sometimes you can affect change in your local OU. Otherwise who gives a poo poo
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2023 16:52
|
|