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what is it called where there's a kanban board, but we have sprints too, but sometimes the board doesn't carry over so you spend all standup trying to figure out where the tickets went and just ignore the backlog entirely?MononcQc posted:ghost riding the WIP lmao
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# ? Feb 8, 2025 02:44 |
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ultrafilter posted:There's a little bit more to it than this. There are a number of stages that a task can be in, and limits on how many tasks can be in each stage at a time. So as you move tickets out of one stage and into the next, you pull something into that stage to replace it. Naturally, those limits are ignored by a lot of organizations that say they're doing Kanban. does anyone have any resources about this it sounds interesting
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Its a Rolex posted:what is it called where there's a kanban board, but we have sprints too, but sometimes the board doesn't carry over so you spend all standup trying to figure out where the tickets went and just ignore the backlog entirely? I call this “we are doing the things that need to be done”.
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ultrafilter posted:Naturally, those limits are ignored by a lot of organizations that say they're doing Kanban. if we’re being honest, some orgs will even ignore the prioritized backlog. really, there is no good process without a competent and disciplined org, it’s not particularly a kanban or scrum problem but i’ll still take broken kanban over broken scrum — at least there are fewer meetings
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we do a hybrid waterfall/kanban/scrum right now it works somewhat, mostly because nobody really cares, it's all just watefall. waterfall+ if you will
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post hole digger posted:does anyone have any resources about this it sounds interesting I like Learning Agile as a general intro to the standard methodologies and the reasoning behind them.
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the bit you really gotta lean on is look at how you work, ask “is this serving us well? how could we improve?” and experiment with ways to make things better. Any flat-out borrowed method with no thought applied to its tailoring to local circumstances, or where the objective is compliance instead of a deliberate trade-off of development aspects is bound to loving suck.
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if you never need to provide reasonably accurate estimates for delivery of large features, kanban is great
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my estimates are gonna be poo poo regardless of methodology but also all the times I was the most pessimistic and accurate project managers hated it and kept asking to make it faster and sorry bud, but this involves the customers having to manually configure DNS poo poo and we won’t be done deprecating the old stack for at least 2 years
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don’t go chasing waterfalls
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stick to the kanbans and the scrums that you're used to
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yeah but i don’t want no scrums
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Captain Foo posted:yeah but i don’t want no scrums to the tune of “no scrubs”
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FAT32 SHAMER posted:to the tune of “no scrubs” oooooh I get it now
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FAT32 SHAMER posted:to the tune of “no scrubs” that’s the joke, yes
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a scrum is a sigh when they want some code from me hangin out the p managers side when it’s planning time trying to fibonacci
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Captain Foo posted:that’s the joke, yes drat
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Armitag3 posted:the guy that came up with points already apologised like a million times publicly? Link me please and thank you
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3rd round next week with a founder, PM and an EM ![]()
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cheese eats mouse posted:3rd round next week with a founder, PM and an EM good luck goon
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MononcQc posted:my estimates are gonna be poo poo regardless of methodology but also all the times I was the most pessimistic and accurate project managers hated it and kept asking to make it faster and sorry bud, but this involves the customers having to manually configure DNS poo poo and we won’t be done deprecating the old stack for at least 2 years “i can say whatever number you want me to say, but it will take 4 days. Here, Ill help you out - it’ll be done by the time this meeting is over. Does that help you? How about now? My new estimate is that its already done. Better?” Thats what i said to my PM that was dumb enough to sweat me for time, and he never really did it again.
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champagne posting posted:publicly? Link me please and thank you i think its this https://ronjeffries.com/articles/019-01ff/story-points/Index.html
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4lokos basilisk posted:i think its this https://ronjeffries.com/articles/019-01ff/story-points/Index.html quote:Well, if I did invent story points, I’m probably a little sorry now, but not very sorry. lol, he has no remorse, the fucker. just an entire meandering article about how they're cool and good actually, just everyone besides him is using them wrong, you see.
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im sorry youre all too stupid to understand my brilliant story point system
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rotor posted:“i can say whatever number you want me to say, but it will take 4 days. Here, Ill help you out - it’ll be done by the time this meeting is over. Does that help you? How about now? My new estimate is that its already done. Better?” baller
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Asymmetric POSTer posted:baller you gotta push back hard on that poo poo or you will be living with it forever
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rotor posted:you gotta push back hard on that poo poo or you will be living with it forever a good practice we came up with at a prior job was to have an out by saying “we don’t know about that, we need a research/scoping task” and putting in N hours of work where the goal is to time box some exploration, just to come back with a better way to estimate. it’s nice because it gives devs a way to call out uncertainty but also to map it out as well. if half your tasks are “who the hell knows, we gotta explore” you get a nice implicit form of backpressure where it may look like your whole project is in need of better prototyping and re-scoping.
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MononcQc posted:a good practice we came up with at a prior job was to have an out by saying “we don’t know about that, we need a research/scoping task” and putting in N hours of work where the goal is to time box some exploration, just to come back with a better way to estimate. yeah you gotta put spike tasks up but if you have a PM who is sweating you for lower estimates you gotta nip that poo poo in the bud my guy, my estimate is 4 days but if you need me to say a number to make your spreadsheet look better I can say whatever number you want. But it will still take around 4 days.
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i had a scrum master (problematic imo) who would write the title of a story and then immediately ask how many points it was because it was the next field in the jira form whatever training they had made them laser focus on the nonsense stats (burn down, velocity, etc) and they’d bring it up all the time; i threatened to ruin their stats by setting 99999999999 points to a story if they didn’t shut up about THE TEAMS AVERAGE VELOCITY or whatever same person would also lean into turning sprint retros into struggle sessions by asking who wrote the mildly negative feedback and whatnot e: rotor’s being obnoxious but they’re not wrong ime
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Phone posted:e: rotor’s being obnoxious :-(
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i try to only work at startuppy places that are constantly doing new things and trying new angles and as a result time estimates and story points are always made up, and if anyone tries to ask me about them or god forbid have a meeting thats only about "points" i get irate af for a place where you're constantly doing the same things over and over again like a website factory or enterprise it makes perfect sense but the only way to tell how long something takes is to do it; if you've never done it there's no sense it talking about it as if you have
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we don’t use story points, we just have a monthly release and we tell the scrum lords if we can do something by this UAT or the next UAT simple as
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AnoHito posted:lol, he has no remorse, the fucker. just an entire meandering article about how they're cool and good actually, just everyone besides him is using them wrong, you see. Eh, my takeaway from that article is that he doesn't think story points should be used beyond breaking down work into small enough chunks to be worked on, but never for estimation His ideal system seems like having points but only devs can see them and know what they are ron posted:It’s far better to pick a close-in date for the next release to customers, and pick as much good stuff into that release as possible. Estimating, be it in story points or gummi bears or even time, gets in the way of this. Where possible, in my opinion, it’s best avoided.
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Corla Plankun posted:i try to only work at startuppy places that are constantly doing new things and trying new angles and as a result time estimates and story points are always made up, and if anyone tries to ask me about them or god forbid have a meeting thats only about "points" i get irate af my last job was derisking new tech and boy oh boy was it fun to have the exact same, ‘i can’t estimate something that we’ve never done before’ every three months
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put some backend devs, web devs, and ios/android devs on the same team, and then tell them to establish the meaning of a story point, as a joke (i have seen this joke happen in real life)
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story points should be stored in a SAFe
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koolkal posted:Eh, my takeaway from that article is that he doesn't think story points should be used beyond breaking down work into small enough chunks to be worked on, but never for estimation but that's it isn't it? The moment something can be measured it'll get shoved into a kpi and from thereon out that's it we're all hosed.
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Corla Plankun posted:i try to only work at startuppy places if i wanted to be overworked, underpaid, and getting regularly screamed at by coked-up rich assholes i'd go work for a local restauranteur (j/k i'm just giving you a hard time. i know that a lot of startups can be cool but it's not for me)
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Sapozhnik posted:if i wanted to be overworked, underpaid, and getting regularly screamed at by coked-up rich assholes i'd go work for a local restauranteur my one weird trick is to work at places that developers think are boring - banks, insurance companies, manufacturing. they pay well, don’t understaff and i never think about work outside of work.
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# ? Feb 8, 2025 02:44 |
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never heard of manufacturing or insurance paying well for touchers and all three are nexuses of insane bullshit, touching-wise bob dobbs is dead fucked around with this message at 11:12 on Jul 23, 2023 |
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