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what is it called where there's a kanban board, but we have sprints too, but sometimes the board doesn't carry over so you spend all standup trying to figure out where the tickets went and just ignore the backlog entirely?MononcQc posted:ghost riding the WIP lmao
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Jul 21, 2023 04:26
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ultrafilter posted:There's a little bit more to it than this. There are a number of stages that a task can be in, and limits on how many tasks can be in each stage at a time. So as you move tickets out of one stage and into the next, you pull something into that stage to replace it. Naturally, those limits are ignored by a lot of organizations that say they're doing Kanban. does anyone have any resources about this it sounds interesting
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Jul 21, 2023 05:04
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Its a Rolex posted:what is it called where there's a kanban board, but we have sprints too, but sometimes the board doesn't carry over so you spend all standup trying to figure out where the tickets went and just ignore the backlog entirely? I call this “we are doing the things that need to be done”.
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Jul 21, 2023 05:12
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ultrafilter posted:Naturally, those limits are ignored by a lot of organizations that say they're doing Kanban. if we’re being honest, some orgs will even ignore the prioritized backlog. really, there is no good process without a competent and disciplined org, it’s not particularly a kanban or scrum problem but i’ll still take broken kanban over broken scrum — at least there are fewer meetings
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Jul 21, 2023 07:45
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we do a hybrid waterfall/kanban/scrum right now it works somewhat, mostly because nobody really cares, it's all just watefall. waterfall+ if you will
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Jul 21, 2023 09:28
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post hole digger posted:does anyone have any resources about this it sounds interesting I like Learning Agile as a general intro to the standard methodologies and the reasoning behind them.
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Jul 21, 2023 13:02
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the bit you really gotta lean on is look at how you work, ask “is this serving us well? how could we improve?” and experiment with ways to make things better. Any flat-out borrowed method with no thought applied to its tailoring to local circumstances, or where the objective is compliance instead of a deliberate trade-off of development aspects is bound to loving suck.
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Jul 21, 2023 13:12
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if you never need to provide reasonably accurate estimates for delivery of large features, kanban is great
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Jul 21, 2023 13:17
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my estimates are gonna be poo poo regardless of methodology but also all the times I was the most pessimistic and accurate project managers hated it and kept asking to make it faster and sorry bud, but this involves the customers having to manually configure DNS poo poo and we won’t be done deprecating the old stack for at least 2 years
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Jul 21, 2023 13:37
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don’t go chasing waterfalls
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Jul 21, 2023 13:51
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stick to the kanbans and the scrums that you're used to
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Jul 21, 2023 13:56
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yeah but i don’t want no scrums
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Jul 21, 2023 13:57
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Captain Foo posted:yeah but i don’t want no scrums to the tune of “no scrubs”
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Jul 21, 2023 13:58
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FAT32 SHAMER posted:to the tune of “no scrubs” oooooh I get it now
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Jul 21, 2023 14:11
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FAT32 SHAMER posted:to the tune of “no scrubs” that’s the joke, yes
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Jul 21, 2023 14:28
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a scrum is a sigh when they want some code from me hangin out the p managers side when it’s planning time trying to fibonacci
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Jul 21, 2023 14:47
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Captain Foo posted:that’s the joke, yes drat
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Jul 21, 2023 14:51
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Armitag3 posted:the guy that came up with points already apologised like a million times publicly? Link me please and thank you
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Jul 21, 2023 21:54
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3rd round next week with a founder, PM and an EM 
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Jul 22, 2023 03:39
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cheese eats mouse posted:3rd round next week with a founder, PM and an EM good luck goon
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Jul 22, 2023 03:39
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MononcQc posted:my estimates are gonna be poo poo regardless of methodology but also all the times I was the most pessimistic and accurate project managers hated it and kept asking to make it faster and sorry bud, but this involves the customers having to manually configure DNS poo poo and we won’t be done deprecating the old stack for at least 2 years “i can say whatever number you want me to say, but it will take 4 days. Here, Ill help you out - it’ll be done by the time this meeting is over. Does that help you? How about now? My new estimate is that its already done. Better?” Thats what i said to my PM that was dumb enough to sweat me for time, and he never really did it again.
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Jul 22, 2023 05:48
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champagne posting posted:publicly? Link me please and thank you i think its this https://ronjeffries.com/articles/019-01ff/story-points/Index.html
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Jul 22, 2023 06:19
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4lokos basilisk posted:i think its this https://ronjeffries.com/articles/019-01ff/story-points/Index.html quote:Well, if I did invent story points, I’m probably a little sorry now, but not very sorry. lol, he has no remorse, the fucker. just an entire meandering article about how they're cool and good actually, just everyone besides him is using them wrong, you see.
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Jul 22, 2023 06:45
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im sorry youre all too stupid to understand my brilliant story point system
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Jul 22, 2023 06:48
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rotor posted:“i can say whatever number you want me to say, but it will take 4 days. Here, Ill help you out - it’ll be done by the time this meeting is over. Does that help you? How about now? My new estimate is that its already done. Better?” baller
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Jul 22, 2023 09:40
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Asymmetric POSTer posted:baller you gotta push back hard on that poo poo or you will be living with it forever
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Jul 22, 2023 12:16
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rotor posted:you gotta push back hard on that poo poo or you will be living with it forever a good practice we came up with at a prior job was to have an out by saying “we don’t know about that, we need a research/scoping task” and putting in N hours of work where the goal is to time box some exploration, just to come back with a better way to estimate. it’s nice because it gives devs a way to call out uncertainty but also to map it out as well. if half your tasks are “who the hell knows, we gotta explore” you get a nice implicit form of backpressure where it may look like your whole project is in need of better prototyping and re-scoping.
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Jul 22, 2023 12:47
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MononcQc posted:a good practice we came up with at a prior job was to have an out by saying “we don’t know about that, we need a research/scoping task” and putting in N hours of work where the goal is to time box some exploration, just to come back with a better way to estimate. yeah you gotta put spike tasks up but if you have a PM who is sweating you for lower estimates you gotta nip that poo poo in the bud my guy, my estimate is 4 days but if you need me to say a number to make your spreadsheet look better I can say whatever number you want. But it will still take around 4 days.
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Jul 22, 2023 13:45
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i had a scrum master (problematic imo) who would write the title of a story and then immediately ask how many points it was because it was the next field in the jira form whatever training they had made them laser focus on the nonsense stats (burn down, velocity, etc) and they’d bring it up all the time; i threatened to ruin their stats by setting 99999999999 points to a story if they didn’t shut up about THE TEAMS AVERAGE VELOCITY or whatever same person would also lean into turning sprint retros into struggle sessions by asking who wrote the mildly negative feedback and whatnot e: rotor’s being obnoxious but they’re not wrong ime
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Jul 22, 2023 15:03
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Phone posted:e: rotor’s being obnoxious :-(
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Jul 22, 2023 18:41
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i try to only work at startuppy places that are constantly doing new things and trying new angles and as a result time estimates and story points are always made up, and if anyone tries to ask me about them or god forbid have a meeting thats only about "points" i get irate af for a place where you're constantly doing the same things over and over again like a website factory or enterprise it makes perfect sense but the only way to tell how long something takes is to do it; if you've never done it there's no sense it talking about it as if you have
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Jul 22, 2023 20:09
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we don’t use story points, we just have a monthly release and we tell the scrum lords if we can do something by this UAT or the next UAT simple as
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Jul 22, 2023 20:15
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AnoHito posted:lol, he has no remorse, the fucker. just an entire meandering article about how they're cool and good actually, just everyone besides him is using them wrong, you see. Eh, my takeaway from that article is that he doesn't think story points should be used beyond breaking down work into small enough chunks to be worked on, but never for estimation His ideal system seems like having points but only devs can see them and know what they are ron posted:It’s far better to pick a close-in date for the next release to customers, and pick as much good stuff into that release as possible. Estimating, be it in story points or gummi bears or even time, gets in the way of this. Where possible, in my opinion, it’s best avoided.
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Jul 22, 2023 21:17
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Corla Plankun posted:i try to only work at startuppy places that are constantly doing new things and trying new angles and as a result time estimates and story points are always made up, and if anyone tries to ask me about them or god forbid have a meeting thats only about "points" i get irate af my last job was derisking new tech and boy oh boy was it fun to have the exact same, ‘i can’t estimate something that we’ve never done before’ every three months
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Jul 22, 2023 21:17
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put some backend devs, web devs, and ios/android devs on the same team, and then tell them to establish the meaning of a story point, as a joke (i have seen this joke happen in real life)
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Jul 22, 2023 21:19
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story points should be stored in a SAFe
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Jul 22, 2023 21:59
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koolkal posted:Eh, my takeaway from that article is that he doesn't think story points should be used beyond breaking down work into small enough chunks to be worked on, but never for estimation but that's it isn't it? The moment something can be measured it'll get shoved into a kpi and from thereon out that's it we're all hosed.
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Jul 22, 2023 22:53
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Corla Plankun posted:i try to only work at startuppy places if i wanted to be overworked, underpaid, and getting regularly screamed at by coked-up rich assholes i'd go work for a local restauranteur (j/k i'm just giving you a hard time. i know that a lot of startups can be cool but it's not for me)
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Jul 23, 2023 02:54
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Sapozhnik posted:if i wanted to be overworked, underpaid, and getting regularly screamed at by coked-up rich assholes i'd go work for a local restauranteur my one weird trick is to work at places that developers think are boring - banks, insurance companies, manufacturing. they pay well, don’t understaff and i never think about work outside of work.
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Jul 23, 2023 07:49
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never heard of manufacturing or insurance paying well for touchers and all three are nexuses of insane bullshit, touching-wise bob dobbs is dead fucked around with this message at 11:12 on Jul 23, 2023 |
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Jul 23, 2023 11:08
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