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Poniard
Apr 3, 2011



Starting a new job today r i p
Here's to it not sucking

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Valeyard
Mar 30, 2012


Grimey Drawer
Good luck

I am already getting nervous even at the idea of starting a new job

Poniard
Apr 3, 2011



I'm kinda excited because the commute is good and short. I overdressed today but I bought this nice suit I'm gonna wear it dammit. At least it makes for a good photo ID.

Fiedler
Jun 29, 2002

I, for one, welcome our new mouse overlords.

TimWinter posted:

As someone who has tried to get an interviewee to take the one additional step to turn arbitrary python functions into an executable script, this is infuriatingly hard to communicate.

Unfortunately, it's also really telling when someone is familiar with the steps you have to take to turn arbitrary python into something you can run/use. It's definitely "like me" bias at play, but I assumed it was easy and it took a lot of experience to be able to do it and a lot more experience to do it well at all.

No, this question tells you nothing of import about a candidate.

Valeyard
Mar 30, 2012


Grimey Drawer
It tells you more about the place you are interviewing for, or the person interviewing you to be more specific

Schadenboner
Aug 15, 2011

by Shine

Poniard posted:

I'm kinda excited because the commute is good and short. I overdressed today but I bought this nice suit I'm gonna wear it dammit. At least it makes for a good photo ID.

Not without a snappy top-hat, it doesn't.

champagne posting
Apr 5, 2006

YOU ARE A BRAIN
IN A BUNKER

Valeyard posted:

Good luck

I am already getting nervous even at the idea of starting a new job

:yossame:

but then i went and bought an apartment and suddenly the stress of that and moving became more than the sum of "new job" parts

Notorious b.s.d.
Jan 25, 2003

by Reene

Valeyard posted:

They told me they would "give me the best offer they can initially so we don't need to go back and forwards on it" which sounds suspect to me,

lots of companies have said this to me. they all negotiated.

recruiters and HR don't know anything, by design. they never know anything. they just regurgitate whatever was put on the documents given to them.

Valeyard posted:

do I care about stock options if it's a privately owned company that probably won't go public due to reasons (I'm thinking the answer is no)

stock in a non-public company should be valued at $0 for comp purposes

you can't pay your rent with illiquid stock

MononcQc
May 29, 2007

"I believe I did, Bob."


Notorious b.s.d. posted:

stock in a non-public company should be valued at $0 for comp purposes

you can't pay your rent with illiquid stock

you can still get some dividends out of it; you can ask what it is, but it's almost guaranteed to be a fraction of what you'd get otherwise. I.e. it's possible you get like $500k in options of a private stock (the value of witch is usually defined by the CFO or whoever crunches their fictional numbers), but the dividends you get every year out of it may be only like $2k at most, and unless the company goes public soon or has an explicit buyback policy, you'll never get to sell that $500k and can only get the $2k/y in dividends.

Diva Cupcake
Aug 15, 2005

my experience with holding equity in small non-public companies is that large companies wanting to hire you will completely discount the existence of that equity when forming a competing offer. as they should.

Valeyard
Mar 30, 2012


Grimey Drawer
Their base salary offer is only 10% more than I make just now, bland includes less holidays and lower pension matching (significantly less)
They offered 6000 stock options (in assuming this means options for 6000 shares) but don't know the excise price or what the current value of those shares are (it will probably be like 12k GBP max) and vest over 4 years, gently caress that

Schadenboner
Aug 15, 2011

by Shine

Valeyard posted:

Their base salary offer is only 10% more than I make just now, bland includes less holidays and lower pension matching (significantly less)
They offered 6000 stock options (in assuming this means options for 6000 shares) but don't know the excise price or what the current value of those shares are (it will probably be like 12k GBP max) and vest over 4 years, gently caress that

Jesus. Don't move companies for 10% more cash, especially if the bennies are worse unless you're really in a bad way.

Valeyard
Mar 30, 2012


Grimey Drawer
Yeah I know, it doesn't seem worth it for fuking 10%

I feel like the only thing I could really do just now is try and get my current company to at least counter offer, but that could backfire a few different ways

champagne posting
Apr 5, 2006

YOU ARE A BRAIN
IN A BUNKER

alternatively do move jobs if you cut your commute way down

Valeyard
Mar 30, 2012


Grimey Drawer
Nah it's like 1 block difference

qhat
Jul 6, 2015


Eh not a deal-breaker yet, just this is where you reveal your current salary and ask for 10% more on their offer. If they still lowball or just outright say no, then walk since it means they're going to screw you on future raises.

Mao Zedong Thot
Oct 16, 2008


anybody move into management and have a positive experience?

I'm thinking about moving into a team manager role. i enjoy technical work, but I'm much better at breadth vs depth. i.e. i'm not the best <role> on my team, but I'm strong at everything. i'm also a lot happier working on 'everything' than focusing on a single thing.

also it seems the tech path forward is more specialization into a niche (like 'own developer tools' etc.)

Poniard
Apr 3, 2011



I'm glad the IT guy giving his presentation at orientation was very sarcastic about webex

Notorious b.s.d.
Jan 25, 2003

by Reene

Valeyard posted:

Their base salary offer is only 10% more than I make just now, bland includes less holidays and lower pension matching (significantly less)
They offered 6000 stock options (in assuming this means options for 6000 shares) but don't know the excise price or what the current value of those shares are (it will probably be like 12k GBP max) and vest over 4 years, gently caress that

ask for more money. a lot more. they will probably say no, but, obviously you will not take the offer as it stands, so what do you have to lose?

(startups are, by and large, terrible places to work. next time interview with real companies and maybe you will find your p. deece figgies)

Valeyard
Mar 30, 2012


Grimey Drawer
Yeah I've asked them for more money and will wait to hear back now

Its bullshit though, I think I would need to move if I want actual deece figgies, it's not competitive enough here

Notorious b.s.d.
Jan 25, 2003

by Reene

Valeyard posted:

Yeah I've asked them for more money and will wait to hear back now

Its bullshit though, I think I would need to move if I want actual deece figgies, it's not competitive enough here

if a startup, the bottom feeders of the career world, offered you 10% more than what you're making, a real company with profits and a business model can afford to pay you a lot more

AWWNAW
Dec 30, 2008

10% cut isnít awful if youíre making dee figs already and really really hate your job. Iíve taken a way bigger cut to leave a job that was killing me with stress and my life is better for it. just gotta be sure youíre trading money for happiness or future marketability or some horse poo poo

qhat
Jul 6, 2015


AWWNAW posted:

10% cut isn’t awful if you’re making dee figs already and really really hate your job. I’ve taken a way bigger cut to leave a job that was killing me with stress and my life is better for it. just gotta be sure you’re trading money for happiness or future marketability or some horse poo poo

It's a 10% raise from an already uncompetitive salary.

AWWNAW
Dec 30, 2008

qhat posted:

It's a 10% raise from an already uncompetitive salary.

haha do you think Iím reading this poo poo for comprehension

AWWNAW
Dec 30, 2008

Iím not owned

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
under capitalism we are all owned

Schadenboner
Aug 15, 2011

by Shine

Sapozhnik posted:

under capitalism we are all owned

The MUMPSorceress
Jan 6, 2012


^SHTPSTS

Gary’s Answer

Sapozhnik posted:

under capitalism we are all owned

Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Milk's on them.


Notorious b.s.d. posted:

ask for more money. a lot more. they will probably say no, but, obviously you will not take the offer as it stands, so what do you have to lose?

you can get the recruiter/representative real pissed off at you which happened to me (it was not a good place to work afaict)

Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Milk's on them.


Sapozhnik posted:

under capitalism we are all owned

The MUMPSorceress
Jan 6, 2012


^SHTPSTS

Gary’s Answer

Pollyanna posted:

you can get the recruiter/representative real pissed off at you which happened to me (it was not a good place to work afaict)

My recruiter just got confused. He literally couldn't understand what was happening and had to call someone else to help him.

qhat
Jul 6, 2015


Pollyanna posted:

you can get the recruiter/representative real pissed off at you which happened to me

Good.

qhat
Jul 6, 2015


My favourite line I've had recruiters say to me is still "that's just what we pay our other staff" as if them admitting that they grossly underpay their entire workforce is something that isn't going to make me run a hundred leagues in the opposite direction.

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

Sapozhnik posted:

under capitalism we are all owned

HoboMan
Nov 4, 2010

Sapozhnik posted:

under capitalism we are all owned

TerminalRaptor
Nov 6, 2012

Mostly Harmless

Mao Zedong Thot posted:

anybody move into management and have a positive experience?

I'm thinking about moving into a team manager role. i enjoy technical work, but I'm much better at breadth vs depth. i.e. i'm not the best <role> on my team, but I'm strong at everything. i'm also a lot happier working on 'everything' than focusing on a single thing.

also it seems the tech path forward is more specialization into a niche (like 'own developer tools' etc.)

Depends, is your organization stable? If so, and you have clear visibility with regards to how the role is supposed to operate in your department, and you want to do it, you'll probably enjoy it immensely. Does your org have some sort of intermediary role, like a team lead? That's a great way to see if its something you want to do more of. Even if they don't your manager might be able to stick you in some intermediary role to test the waters if you ask. Being strong at 'everything' doesn't necessarily make you a good candidate for management though. Having a good understanding of development and how the processes work can make the different between a good manager and a great manager, but only if you have the ability to manage people; it's why it's called manager. Be prepared to have to deal with a lot of soft skill issues: interpersonal conflicts, helping team members grow their skills, negotiating with fellow managers and stakeholders for timelines and resources.

Honestly I'm going on three years in a manager role after spending several as a team lead, and the past two years have been hell, but that's do to a variety of issues in our department. We'd been winging it for a long time with regards to project management and around the time our previous cto retired various middle management people in our department decided we needed to be doing more project management responsibilities. Instead of hiring for the necessary roles though, they decided to dump all of it on the existing managers. So I found myself doing PO work, scrummaster work, dev work, and people manager work all at the same time. This happened right when I became manager, and made it confusing as hell as to what my role was supposed to be. Thankfully this only lasted for about a year before our cto's replacement decided to impose order on our department and enforce an actual agile process with dedicated po's/scrum masters etc. Unfortunately they trusted the people running the department to implement this and didn't realize just how pants on head retarded they were with regards to actually doing their job titles (previous cto was a dictator), so now we're a year into a reorg that was supposed to be done by last Christmas. This means I've still been doing a half-dozen different roles in the meantime, while dealing with a team that has been hurt and frustrated because they don't know what's going on with their roles, confusing vision statements, repeated false starts, lacking necessary people resources, and not knowing what they're going to be working on. This is a cliff's notes version of the mess, and it doesn't even touch on some of other stuff like a problem report I had to deal with right after becoming manager and a superior's personal issues that have been bleeding into work for way too long. Our manager role is turning into strictly people focused after everything is supposed to be said and done and because all technical responsibilities are gone, the role will have a lot more direct reports than I'm comfortable with; doing only that everyday doesn't appeal to me. The technical leadership responsibilities have moved into other roles.

That's why I asked if your organization is stable. One of the books I really like on software dev management is called "The Manager's Path" and I recommend checking it out if you think this might be the path you want to down. Even with all the pain and frustration I've dealt with, I've loved being able to manage a team and realizing I need to transition into another role (or leave) has been incredibly difficult for me to accept.

DELETE CASCADE
Oct 25, 2017

i haven't washed my penis since i jerked it to a phtotograph of george w. bush in 2003
thats a lot of words and im definitely gonna read them tomorrow but right now i just see a bunch of alternating amber and black lines op

Symbolic Butt
Mar 22, 2009

(_!_)
Buglord

Sapozhnik posted:

under capitalism we are all owned

One-Man-Bucket
Jan 6, 2004
The banjo is the superior instrument

i went into full time manager role after about 6 years into career

things i enjoyed:
* coaching jr devs / mentoring sr devs
* building a good/fun/healthy/challenging working environment for my engineers and then defending it tooth and nail
* strategic work & planning (aka horse trading with product people)
* hiring / building diverse teams
* dealing with interpersonal conflicts and "soft issues" that pop up
* more figgies

things that made me switch back to engineering a year ago:
* much less mobility than engineering, i wanted to move to another part of our company, it's much easier to switch teams as engineer, at least in our company
* too many direct reports, at the end i was managing 14 people and was only doing baseline people management work. when i left they split the team and had 2 managers take over
* i wasn't ready to let my technical skills stagnate

on the whole im super happy i made the transition, and equally happy i switched back to engineering (also i got to keep the extra figgies). The skills i picked up as manager are quite handy when dealing with my new team as an engineer (just as my tech chops weere an advantage when i was managing engineers). if you work at a company that let try out other roles then go for it IMO, worst case you switch back or find a new job with "manager" appended to your CV. i'll probably go back to management in 5 years or so

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Wiggly Wayne DDS
Sep 11, 2010



Valeyard posted:

includes less holidays and lower pension matching (significantly less)
willing to share any numbers on that because i'm really interested in how they're messing with you over those here. going to wager they're not a fan of flexi or public holidays either

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