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EIDE Van Hagar
Dec 8, 2000

Beep Boop
at crunch time when everyone is trying to get turnins through you regularly see the turnin pipeline backed up for a week or more.

and this is with a netbatch system where every test gets its own machine to run on with dozens of xeon cores and hundreds of gigs of memory (if it needs it, many tests will not need all of that and get a slower machine).

EIDE Van Hagar fucked around with this message at 21:46 on May 24, 2018

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Fiedler
Jun 29, 2002

I, for one, welcome our new mouse overlords.
It turns out that integration tests take longer to run than unit tests.

ShadowHawk
Jun 25, 2000

The company has no assets of any significant value.

Corla Plankun posted:

that sounds like something a really bad programmer would say hth

TimWinter posted:

I'll see you better tests and raise you more tests.
Cause I always got more tests.
Exactly. Bigger system, wider system, more and more tests needed. Wider coverage of integration tests = slower.

You can't expect a test for an edge case that only occurs when you have a million simultaneous users to not require a more elaborate test environment, and that means some amount of time.

FamDav
Mar 29, 2008

TimWinter posted:

Although, CI is continuous integration which is easy to do several times a day even with large codebases. CD is the continuous deployment part, which does suggest several daily deploys.

Which is why I've seen CI thrown around as a great option for all cases, and CD be less universal.

I still haven't heard a good answer to how you do CD when you have literally eight hours of automated tests or, good forbid, flakey tests peppered throughout your eight hour automated test suite.

flaky tests are an issue, but if you have an automated full CD deployment pipeline why does it matter if the turn around time is 8 minutes or 8 hours so long as your test coverage and deployment velocity is acceptable for what you need

Fiedler
Jun 29, 2002

I, for one, welcome our new mouse overlords.
because there will be gaps in test coverage, the web app will become horribly broken, fixing the typo that caused it will take 8 hours to deploy, and rolling back is theoretically an option but oops we didn't include that in our cd pipeline from the beginning so we've never tried it or tested it

Fiedler
Jun 29, 2002

I, for one, welcome our new mouse overlords.
at which point you think, "gently caress it we'll do it live", disable the tests and push out the fix for the typo directly. but wait, that didn't fix the problem at all and now it's broken even worse than before

Blinkz0rz
May 27, 2001

MY CONTEMPT FOR MY OWN EMPLOYEES IS ONLY MATCHED BY MY LOVE FOR TOM BRADY'S SWEATY MAGA BALLS
if your test suite takes 8 hours to run your app is either way too big and should be broken into commensurate parts that can be deployed independently and each have their own test suite or else your tests are poo poo and probably aren't actually testing valuable things

Notorious b.s.d.
Jan 25, 2003

by Reene

Blinkz0rz posted:

if your test suite takes 8 hours to run your app is either way too big and should be broken into commensurate parts that can be deployed independently and each have their own test suite or else your tests are poo poo and probably aren't actually testing valuable things

it's both

it's always both

Notorious b.s.d.
Jan 25, 2003

by Reene
"break up the app into more manageable parts" is almost never a viable option

carry on then
Jul 10, 2010

by VideoGames

(and can't post for 11 years!)

our continuous integration build takes ~ 8hours i think, runs well over 50,000 tests

of course, before release we run the supported operating environments suite, which takes 150 vms and even more time.

Arcsech
Aug 5, 2008
just finished 8 solid hours of interviews today

company seems pretty good, but that is a long fuckin day. I'm wrecked

Blinkz0rz
May 27, 2001

MY CONTEMPT FOR MY OWN EMPLOYEES IS ONLY MATCHED BY MY LOVE FOR TOM BRADY'S SWEATY MAGA BALLS

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

"break up the app into more manageable parts" is almost never a viable option

for sure but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be said

ShadowHawk
Jun 25, 2000

The company has no assets of any significant value.

Fiedler posted:

rolling back is theoretically an option but oops we didn't include that in our cd pipeline from the beginning so we've never tried it or tested it
This is part of your problem here

Rollbacks should be expected and normal operations, both for code and datasets. If you have an SRE org they should be able to rollback things without even knowing the details of what's in the newest release.

jesus WEP
Oct 17, 2004


Notorious b.s.d. posted:

"break up the app into more manageable parts" is almost never a viable option
this is exclusively my job atm and boy does it ever suck

otoh gonna hit a dinger on the interview question “what challenges did you face on a recent project?”

qhat
Jul 6, 2015


Big onsite interview today with a company that allegedly will pay me 33% more figures than my current.

Fiedler
Jun 29, 2002

I, for one, welcome our new mouse overlords.
Figgies are a logarithmic scale so that is one helluva raise.

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
thursday is my last day at my current job. one of these days i'll get a job that doesn't end with me spending the final month counting the days until it's over.

gonna enjoy my funemployment for a few weeks then improve my terrible knowledge and skillz for a few months before i start looking again. i badly need some burnout recovery time.

TheFluff
Dec 13, 2006

FRIENDS, LISTEN TO ME
I AM A SEAGULL
OF WEALTH AND TASTE
finding a job I'm interested in actually applying for is really hard when most of the companies around here exclusively do poo poo garbage for idiots

spotify is the usual monopoly-seeking poo poo and i have it on good account that they are mainly growing their developer force to pad their valuation
anything martech or fintech is right out
i will never volountarily work at an agency or a consultancy again
literal blockchain startups? gently caress off
"online doctor" startups focusing on lucrative and mostly healthy patients? gently caress off
tiny dumb "obvious thing with an app" startups with like five developers? gently caress off
some tv streaming poo poo that's competing with the channels' own platforms not to mention netflix? gently caress off
online casinos? gently caress off
the loving "natural cycles" rhythm method contraception app startup? gently caress off

seriously, loving google is starting to look like one of the least bad options at this point. i think i'll apply to paradox entertainment first though because video games are merely stupid rather than morally unacceptable

i know, i know, there is no ethical consumption nor any ethical labor under late capitalism but at least let me pretend for a moment

TheFluff fucked around with this message at 18:25 on May 29, 2018

MrMoo
Sep 14, 2000

I think I've interviewed at all the same places. There are some good fintech holes but they are only tiny holes in a mountain of feces.

Janitor Prime
Jan 22, 2004

PC LOAD LETTER

What da fuck does that mean

Fun Shoe
You didn't mention telecom, but there is a lot going on in that space that is pretty stable and isn't as shady as some of the stuff you mentioned.

Shaggar
Apr 26, 2006

TheFluff posted:

finding a job I'm interested in actually applying for is really hard when most of the companies around here exclusively do poo poo garbage for idiots

spotify is the usual monopoly-seeking poo poo and i have it on good account that they are mainly growing their developer force to pad their valuation
anything martech or fintech is right out
i will never volountarily work at an agency or a consultancy again
literal blockchain startups? gently caress off
"online doctor" startups focusing on lucrative and mostly healthy patients? gently caress off
tiny dumb "obvious thing with an app" startups with like five developers? gently caress off
some tv streaming poo poo that's competing with the channels' own platforms not to mention netflix? gently caress off
online casinos? gently caress off
the loving "natural cycles" rhythm method contraception app startup? gently caress off

seriously, loving google is starting to look like one of the least bad options at this point. i think i'll apply to paradox entertainment first though because video games are merely stupid rather than morally unacceptable

i know, i know, there is no ethical consumption nor any ethical labor under late capitalism but at least let me pretend for a moment

do the fintech

qhat
Jul 6, 2015


Fiedler posted:

Figgies are a logarithmic scale so that is one helluva raise.

It's no secret that I'm underpaid relative to my skills for the market, really I'm only doing this poo poo job because I wasn't employed when I took it.

qhat
Jul 6, 2015


Good thing is performance review is coming up soon so I should be getting a decent raise regardless. I've also just been placed to manage a large project that previously was a total disaster thanks to the incompetent management of the project by someone else, and I get to redesign the entire thing. It's going to be awkward to leave right now if I do get the offer, but gently caress you gotta be unapologetic sometimes.

Fiedler
Jun 29, 2002

I, for one, welcome our new mouse overlords.

qhat posted:

It's no secret that I'm underpaid relative to my skills for the market, really I'm only doing this poo poo job because I wasn't employed when I took it.

i was just making a stupid observation about units. like if you're currently earning 5 figgies that's just $10,000 but 33% more figgies is 6.65 figgies or about $446,684.

TheFluff
Dec 13, 2006

FRIENDS, LISTEN TO ME
I AM A SEAGULL
OF WEALTH AND TASTE

Janitor Prime posted:

You didn't mention telecom, but there is a lot going on in that space that is pretty stable and isn't as shady as some of the stuff you mentioned.

mm, good point. there's a few of those around, worth a look

qhat
Jul 6, 2015


Interview went really well. They said I'd hear back tomorrow. Fingers crossed.

Space Whale
Nov 6, 2014
Luck turns around fast:
I, unfit for non-profit(heh) work, have the acumen, attention to detail and breadth of background in math, science, andd math ed to help with flight planning.

This means more than dodging volcanoes (sry Hawai'i). Like dodging certain airspaces, integrating fuel use at a cruise or max speed rate over your flight durarion accounting for emergency reserve, differences in efficiency if you hace a gravel or shell landing strip kit on your gulfstream, balancing poo poo so the plane doesn't go tail or nose heavy and loving stall.

Not only that, but developing emergency procedures: if engine fails at any given point in a plane's takeoff, flight, or landing, what do you do?

Also obstacle avoidance and figuring out runway slope, including splines if it's not linear.

:stare:
Imposter effect hoooooo

Space Whale
Nov 6, 2014

qhat posted:

gently caress you gotta be unapologetic sometimes.

Your employer would gently caress you without spitting first, without batting an eye, anytime, anywhere.

qhat posted:

gently caress you

Ftfy

Space Whale
Nov 6, 2014

Janitor Prime posted:

You didn't mention telecom, but there is a lot going on in that space that is pretty stable and isn't as shady as some of the stuff you mentioned.

The poo poo I could tell you about Charter.

qhat
Jul 6, 2015


Space Whale posted:

Your employer would gently caress you without spitting first, without batting an eye, anytime, anywhere.


Ftfy

Yeah that's pretty much where I was going. There's no such thing as loyalty when it comes to paying my rent.

Janitor Prime
Jan 22, 2004

PC LOAD LETTER

What da fuck does that mean

Fun Shoe

Space Whale posted:

The poo poo I could tell you about Charter.

Don't work for them directly, they are all poo poo. Sell software/hardware/services to them to get the fat checks.

The startup I'm at is working on mobile network optimization algorithms that we deploy in their core networks. It reduces their CAPEX spending on new base stations, saving them literally billions of dollars over just 3 years. It's amazing going to all these different countries across the world, installing a server and watching their network capacity grow 30%, then coming home to a PO a few weeks later.

Jimmy Carter
Nov 3, 2005

THIS MOTHERDUCKER
FLIES IN STYLE

Space Whale posted:

Luck turns around fast:
I, unfit for non-profit(heh) work, have the acumen, attention to detail and breadth of background in math, science, andd math ed to help with flight planning.

This means more than dodging volcanoes (sry Hawai'i). Like dodging certain airspaces, integrating fuel use at a cruise or max speed rate over your flight durarion accounting for emergency reserve, differences in efficiency if you hace a gravel or shell landing strip kit on your gulfstream, balancing poo poo so the plane doesn't go tail or nose heavy and loving stall.

Not only that, but developing emergency procedures: if engine fails at any given point in a plane's takeoff, flight, or landing, what do you do?

Also obstacle avoidance and figuring out runway slope, including splines if it's not linear.

:stare:
Imposter effect hoooooo

this loving owns and I want a twitch stream of flight plans being figured out in real time as weather evolves

Trimson Grondag 3
Jul 1, 2007

Clapping Larry

Janitor Prime posted:

Don't work for them directly, they are all poo poo. Sell software/hardware/services to them to get the fat checks.

The startup I'm at is working on mobile network optimization algorithms that we deploy in their core networks. It reduces their CAPEX spending on new base stations, saving them literally billions of dollars over just 3 years. It's amazing going to all these different countries across the world, installing a server and watching their network capacity grow 30%, then coming home to a PO a few weeks later.

when i quit previous big telco I got heaps of offers from vendors to go sell back into that telco, it's basically the same as government. collect 120k redundancy from telco, go work at a vendor selling to telco, get rehired at telco three years later, repeat.

as a product guy telco has some advantages in that they have effectively infinite capital, so if you can write a business case and get it signed you can get pretty much any size project funded or go acquire a company or something. the problem is they are so slow that by the time it happens it doesn't matter any more anyway.

Symbolic Butt
Mar 22, 2009

(_!_)
Buglord

Space Whale posted:

Luck turns around fast:
I, unfit for non-profit(heh) work, have the acumen, attention to detail and breadth of background in math, science, andd math ed to help with flight planning.

This means more than dodging volcanoes (sry Hawai'i). Like dodging certain airspaces, integrating fuel use at a cruise or max speed rate over your flight durarion accounting for emergency reserve, differences in efficiency if you hace a gravel or shell landing strip kit on your gulfstream, balancing poo poo so the plane doesn't go tail or nose heavy and loving stall.

Not only that, but developing emergency procedures: if engine fails at any given point in a plane's takeoff, flight, or landing, what do you do?

Also obstacle avoidance and figuring out runway slope, including splines if it's not linear.

:stare:
Imposter effect hoooooo

:eyepop: holy poo poo that owns, I'm legit glad you turned your situation around! The desperation in your previous posts made me hella sad.

Double Bill
Jan 29, 2006

Space Whale posted:

Luck turns around fast:
I, unfit for non-profit(heh) work, have the acumen, attention to detail and breadth of background in math, science, andd math ed to help with flight planning.

This means more than dodging volcanoes (sry Hawai'i). Like dodging certain airspaces, integrating fuel use at a cruise or max speed rate over your flight durarion accounting for emergency reserve, differences in efficiency if you hace a gravel or shell landing strip kit on your gulfstream, balancing poo poo so the plane doesn't go tail or nose heavy and loving stall.

Not only that, but developing emergency procedures: if engine fails at any given point in a plane's takeoff, flight, or landing, what do you do?

Also obstacle avoidance and figuring out runway slope, including splines if it's not linear.

:stare:
Imposter effect hoooooo

Imposter effect owns, it means you're not working on a fart app.

I currently work on a system that does hydrostatics and I barely understand anything about the domain, it's great.

HoboMan
Nov 4, 2010

i too dream of a day where i work with people clearly smarter than me

Shaman Linavi
Apr 3, 2012

passed the long-shot crypto challenge thing for a place and now i have another interview set up with them. a bit bummed about not getting the fb job but looking back i don't even know how i got that far in the process considering my experience vs what they were looking for.
maybe i was the test subject on how to not interview for that position since its some new bespoke ~ad-tech~ they are doing

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



also you shouldn’t work for Facebook

TimWinter
Mar 30, 2015

https://timsthebomb.com

HoboMan posted:

i too dream of a day where i work with people clearly smarter than me

It rules. No one is the smartest person in the room, there are just people who worked hard enough yesterday to be right today.

Except Mark, no one has poo poo on Mark.

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Fiedler
Jun 29, 2002

I, for one, welcome our new mouse overlords.
i'd work for facebook but they probably expect you to actually use facebook, so...

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