interviewing: Senior by reference, not by value

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > interviewing: Senior by reference, not by value

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Space Whale: Nov 6, 2014

You haven't used a library to do rest bullshit in this language :colbert:

I mean WTF were you being asked to do, glue-code, or make a library, or architect a big project?

# ? Jun 8, 2018 16:32

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# ? Jan 18, 2025 15:12

Valeyard: Mar 30, 2012; Grimey Drawer

after turning down that offer for a company and a 12% raise, I got an offer today for another place with a 45% raise :toot:

# ? Jun 8, 2018 17:43

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

REIGNING YOSPOS COSTCO KING

Valeyard posted:

a 45% raise

# ? Jun 8, 2018 17:44

The MUMPSorceress: Jan 6, 2012; ^SHTPSTS; Gary’s Answer

Valeyard posted:

after turning down that offer for a company and a 12% raise, I got an offer today for another place with a 45% raise

Huzzah

# ? Jun 8, 2018 18:26

Symbolic Butt: Mar 22, 2009; (_!_); Buglord

Space Whale posted:

Tell me if I'm wrong, but, isn't python easy to pick up?

even if python is easy to pick up I'd bet my rear end the interviewer would ask about the tricky parts (like say putting lists in default arguments) to check if the person *really* have python experience.

I mean if they were general programming questions he'd be fine with any language or pseudo-code even.

# ? Jun 8, 2018 18:58

Gazpacho: Jun 18, 2004; by Fluffdaddy; Slippery Tilde

Mao Zedong Thot posted:

Did you mean to write something in this post? Seem it didn�t go through

# ? Jun 8, 2018 19:13

TheFluff: Dec 13, 2006; FRIENDS, LISTEN TO ME
I AM A SEAGULL
OF WEALTH AND TASTE

talked to some fintech guys on the phone today. they were looking for people interested in functional programming and it actually seemed like a pretty cool place to be to actually get better at programming, but ugh, fintech. they did send a small homework test though, said it'd take about 1 to 1.5 hours but no time limit, most common languages allowed. they also said it was more about clarity and simplicity than about performance, but to feel free to use functional patters where it was appropriate. three small tasks, two of them trivial, third was to implement a very small and trivial RPN expression evaluator. I did in in python and the idiomatic way is to just have a simple for loop and use a list as a stack, but since they said to use functional programming I ended up doing it with reduce instead and it was much uglier. well, idk. guess I'll see if they get back and maybe talk to them some more.

TheFluff fucked around with this message at 20:59 on Jun 8, 2018

# ? Jun 8, 2018 20:47

Symbolic Butt: Mar 22, 2009; (_!_); Buglord

yeah python is a tough one for demonstrating functional style. I'd have used haskell or sml for that because it's a kind of cliche problem to solve in a language like that to demonstrate pattern matching and recursion

for anything trickier than that I'd go back to python lol

# ? Jun 8, 2018 21:09

TheFluff: Dec 13, 2006; FRIENDS, LISTEN TO ME
I AM A SEAGULL
OF WEALTH AND TASTE

Symbolic Butt posted:

yeah python is a tough one for demonstrating functional style. I'd have used haskell or sml for that because it's a kind of cliche problem to solve in a language like that to demonstrate pattern matching and recursion

for anything trickier than that I'd go back to python lol

I don't know either of those though :negative:

They're explicitly not looking for people with actual professional experience in functional languages though, an interest and some familiarity with the concepts is enough, or so they claim

# ? Jun 8, 2018 21:53

qhat: Jul 6, 2015

If your interviewer is dead set on asking worthless trivia about scripting languages then just imagine how much of an rear end in a top hat they'll be to actually work with.

# ? Jun 8, 2018 23:07

Symbolic Butt: Mar 22, 2009; (_!_); Buglord

there was this one interview the guy asked me the most ridiculous python trivia like what's the difference between __getattr__ and __getattribute__

# ? Jun 8, 2018 23:22

Flaming June: Oct 21, 2004

Symbolic Butt posted:

there was this one interview the guy asked me the most ridiculous python trivia like what's the difference between __getattr__ and __getattribute__

i had one that asked me what the difference was between __new__ and __init__ and when I didn't know he canceled the interview and all further steps

# ? Jun 8, 2018 23:26

hobbesmaster: Jan 28, 2008

Flaming June posted:

i had one that asked me what the difference was between __new__ and __init__ and when I didn't know he canceled the interview and all further steps

I assume the correct answer is a rant about how basing anything on the way c++ does a thing is a terrible idea?

# ? Jun 8, 2018 23:42

Valeyard: Mar 30, 2012; Grimey Drawer

Symbolic Butt posted:

even if python is easy to pick up I'd bet my rear end the interviewer would ask about the tricky parts (like say putting lists in default arguments) to check if the person *really* have python experience.

I mean if they were general programming questions he'd be fine with any language or pseudo-code even.

i got asked this exact question for this job i just got offered lol

along with other questions about magic methods

# ? Jun 9, 2018 00:19

Fiedler: Jun 29, 2002; I, for one, welcome our new mouse overlords.

Flaming June posted:

i had one that asked me what the difference was between __new__ and __init__ and when I didn't know he canceled the interview and all further steps

this is very good. he told you that he's a complete moron and then he didn't waste any more of your time.

# ? Jun 9, 2018 00:31

Symbolic Butt: Mar 22, 2009; (_!_); Buglord

Flaming June posted:

i had one that asked me what the difference was between __new__ and __init__ and when I didn't know he canceled the interview and all further steps

I kinda see the point of this question: it's to check if you're familiar with the way python implements classes. __new__ creates the new instance (thus some people are pedantic about calling it the actual constructor) and __init__ is called afterward to customize (or should I say initialize?) it. they got bad names imo

however it's a mostly irrelevant internal detail unless lol if you take doing OOP in python that seriously.

Valeyard posted:

i got asked this exact question for this job i just got offered lol

along with other questions about magic methods

questions about magic methods are largely bullshit but this one gotcha about lists in default arguments I actually think serves as a good question for checking if the person has any python experience. because it gets everyone at some point.

# ? Jun 9, 2018 00:51

Symbolic Butt: Mar 22, 2009; (_!_); Buglord

hello im symbolic butt i know every bad part of python but i cant get a job lol

# ? Jun 9, 2018 00:52

Ellie Crabcakes: Jan 31, 2008; Stop emailing my boyfriend Gay Crungus

qhat posted:

you're always going to get a whiny baby in the on-site interview

Yeah, well that happens when you let programmers do interviews.

# ? Jun 9, 2018 01:04

Gazpacho: Jun 18, 2004; by Fluffdaddy; Slippery Tilde

Symbolic Butt posted:

there was this one interview the guy asked me the most ridiculous python trivia like what's the difference between __getattr__ and __getattribute__

the worst trivia interviewer i ever had was this fat slob at a mobile PBX company who wanted to hear e.g. Java's limit on the number of methods in a class

I told him "whatever it is, if you get anywhere near it you're doing something terrible" and he just went on to another trivia q

# ? Jun 9, 2018 01:12

qhat: Jul 6, 2015

Gazpacho posted:

the worst trivia interviewer i ever had was this fat slob at a mobile PBX company who wanted to hear e.g. Java's limit on the number of methods in a class

I told him "whatever it is, if you get anywhere near it you're doing something terrible" and he just went on to another trivia q

You see the thing is he's a terrible enough programmer to be intimately familiar with that kind of thing, so he pretty much sprung his own trap there.

# ? Jun 9, 2018 01:25

Symbolic Butt: Mar 22, 2009; (_!_); Buglord

Gazpacho posted:

the worst trivia interviewer i ever had was this fat slob at a mobile PBX company who wanted to hear e.g. Java's limit on the number of methods in a class

I told him "whatever it is, if you get anywhere near it you're doing something terrible" and he just went on to another trivia q

lmao, I'll admit though that I'm kinda happy that now I know this

it's so stupid it's awesome

# ? Jun 9, 2018 01:30

Corla Plankun: May 8, 2007; improve the lives of everyone

whats the list in default arguments gotcha?

# ? Jun 9, 2018 01:48

Ellie Crabcakes: Jan 31, 2008; Stop emailing my boyfriend Gay Crungus

Corla Plankun posted:

whats the list in default arguments gotcha?

If I remember correctly, it's that the default list is created the first call and reused each subsequent call.

# ? Jun 9, 2018 01:50

Space Whale: Nov 6, 2014

Peeny Cheez posted:

If I remember correctly, it's that the default list is created the first call and reused each subsequent call.

What the gently caress

# ? Jun 9, 2018 01:51

PokeJoe: Aug 24, 2004

Gazpacho posted:

the worst trivia interviewer i ever had was this fat slob at a mobile PBX company who wanted to hear e.g. Java's limit on the number of methods in a class

I told him "whatever it is, if you get anywhere near it you're doing something terrible" and he just went on to another trivia q

Lmao

# ? Jun 9, 2018 01:55

Arcsech: Aug 5, 2008

Peeny Cheez posted:

If I remember correctly, it's that the default list is created the first call and reused each subsequent call.

yeah if you do

code:

def let_the_dogs_out(poop, toilet=[]):
    toilet.append(poop)

toilet will grow in size every time you call it without specifying a toilet and the poops will just keep building up

what you need to do is:

code:

def let_the_dogs_out(poop, toilet=None):
    if toilet is None:
        toilet = []
    toilet.append(poop)

in summary,

Space Whale posted:

What the gently caress

# ? Jun 9, 2018 01:56

Mao Zedong Thot: Oct 16, 2008

Fiedler posted:

this is very good. he told you that he's a complete moron and then he didn't waste any more of your time.

# ? Jun 9, 2018 02:02

Space Whale: Nov 6, 2014

Arcsech posted:

yeah if you do
code:
def let_the_dogs_out(poop, toilet=[]):
    toilet.append(poop)
toilet will grow in size every time you call it without specifying a toilet and the poops will just keep building up

what you need to do is:
code:
def let_the_dogs_out(poop, toilet=None):
    if toilet is None:
        toilet = []
    toilet.append(poop)
in summary,

This is ridiculous.

Between poo poo like this and https://lwn.net/Articles/754163/ I really just keep wtfing.

# ? Jun 9, 2018 02:05

qhat: Jul 6, 2015

Lol. P-langs everyone.

# ? Jun 9, 2018 02:20

GenJoe: Sep 14, 2010; Rehabilitated?

That's just a bullshit word.

javascript remains the best p-lang

# ? Jun 9, 2018 03:02

Symbolic Butt: Mar 22, 2009; (_!_); Buglord

Peeny Cheez posted:

If I remember correctly, it's that the default list is created the first call and reused each subsequent call.

it's not in the first call, it's assigned in the function definition statement :eng101:

code:

>>> def f(x=[]):
...    x.append('butt')
...    return x
...
>>> f.__defaults__
([],)
>>> f()
['butt']
>>> f()
['butt', 'butt']
>>> f()
['butt', 'butt', 'butt']
>>> f.__defaults__
(['butt', 'butt', 'butt'],)

tangential to this, one thing that very few people seem to know about is that user defined functions are open objects

code:

>>> f.butt_holder = 'lol'
>>> f.butt_holder
'lol'

so you can assign variables inside functions this way, it's kinda neat in my p-langer opinion.

# ? Jun 9, 2018 04:19

Symbolic Butt: Mar 22, 2009; (_!_); Buglord

back on topic: I did a coding test today, it was like 45 min of 3 incremental tasks, I almost missed the deadline, there was no countdown! :confused:

there are a shitton of stages in the hiring process, stage 5 or something will be a 4 hour timed project which is insane but what choice do I have

# ? Jun 9, 2018 04:32

PokeJoe: Aug 24, 2004

do you guys like coding challenges for interview screening? how long is optimal for one before you decide not to do it

# ? Jun 9, 2018 04:34

Gazpacho: Jun 18, 2004; by Fluffdaddy; Slippery Tilde

I might dedicate a whole weekend (friday night included) if there's something special about the job. otherwise a couple weeknights tops. yes, i like them but its not like i'm getting paid

# ? Jun 9, 2018 04:41

qhat: Jul 6, 2015

PokeJoe posted:

do you guys like coding challenges for interview screening? how long is optimal for one before you decide not to do it

If they're strictly timed, no.

# ? Jun 9, 2018 04:42

Flaming June: Oct 21, 2004

Fiedler posted:

this is very good. he told you that he's a complete moron and then he didn't waste any more of your time.

wish I could remember the name of the company so I know never to apply there again

# ? Jun 9, 2018 04:43

Symbolic Butt: Mar 22, 2009; (_!_); Buglord

PokeJoe posted:

do you guys like coding challenges for interview screening? how long is optimal for one before you decide not to do it

I like coding challenges because I'm a huge sucker for brainteasers tbqh

I feel like 2/3 problems and 30 min for each is pretty fair game.

but I don't have much of a choice given my situation so I just accept whatever

# ? Jun 9, 2018 04:49

Shaman Linavi: Apr 3, 2012

i like doing the pre-screen coding challenge things
even better if they relate to the job and aren't just random leetcode questions

# ? Jun 9, 2018 04:50

Arcsech: Aug 5, 2008

PokeJoe posted:

do you guys like coding challenges for interview screening? how long is optimal for one before you decide not to do it

I've had a couple now with 90-minute coding challenges (done independently, without having to explain your thinking as you go) and that's a pretty good length imo. you get enough time to do a somewhat interesting problem, and if you spend 15 minutes planning/60 minutes coding/15 minutes cleanup and finalizing your solution you have plenty of time to breathe without dumping way too much time into it

i haven't had a >2 hour one yet, making time for that would be pretty rough.

the only coding challenge I liked that had someone watching was one where the interviewer just had me share my screen and I could use my own IntelliJ setup. the others are varying levels of okay, but really fuckin stressful because you're in a weird environment

# ? Jun 9, 2018 04:51

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# ? Jan 18, 2025 15:12

Symbolic Butt: Mar 22, 2009; (_!_); Buglord

I hate coding projects though, it's borderline abusive to make you spend days and overthink coding some bullshit library web app and then not receive any feedback on that

# ? Jun 9, 2018 04:51

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > interviewing: Senior by reference, not by value

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