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rannum
Nov 3, 2012



Explopyro posted:

(quite casually, and I still have a lot more data to gather, so I can't offer firm conclusions yet; if there's any interest, I can report back when I know more).

I don't know about others, but seeing weird breakdowns of how equally weird mechanis actually work is pretty neat and I'd love to see updates if you get them.

Like Dr. Fetus started breaking down AI scripts and everything and it's just cool to see how the game works, I guess.

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Crosspeice
Aug 9, 2013

Zzzz... sploosh... zzzz... KABOOM... zzz... sploosh...

Agreed, I hope my information is accurate, cause I love diving into the small intricacies of game mechanics, it's just neat. But 99% of the time, I'm just going off what other people have said and going with it as fact, since I'm sure as hell not gonna find out otherwise. Like shortly after I finished my Crystal LP, Bulbapedia updated their happiness page to include loads of details I had no idea about, like Pokemon gaining more happiness if they level up in the same route they're caught in. I've also learned a lot from watching speedruns, as well as RNG breakdowns on stuff like soft resets and slot machine manipulation. So any concrete info I've missed, or are wrong about is always super helpful.

rannum
Nov 3, 2012



Crosspeice posted:

. Like shortly after I finished my Crystal LP, Bulbapedia updated their happiness page to include loads of details I had no idea about, like Pokemon gaining more happiness if they level up in the same route they're caught in.

wait what
Did Crystal even track where you caught a pokemon?

Haifisch
Nov 12, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender

rannum posted:

wait what
Did Crystal even track where you caught a pokemon?
Yes. IIRC, there was even one NPC somewhere(I think Cianwood?) that would tell you.

This is going off fuzzy memories, though.

Crosspeice
Aug 9, 2013

Zzzz... sploosh... zzzz... KABOOM... zzz... sploosh...



Is this all correct? *shrugs wildly* I just make the LPs.

Araxxor
Oct 20, 2012

My disdain for you all knows no bounds.


That's the first I've heard of some of those conditions.

Then again, new stuff is being discovered all the time. Such as the gender ratios actually getting screwed up horribly in Gen VI and beyond due to a coding mistake.

MightyPretenders
Feb 21, 2014



Dr. Fetus posted:

That's the first I've heard of some of those conditions.

Then again, new stuff is being discovered all the time. Such as the gender ratios actually getting screwed up horribly in Gen VI and beyond due to a coding mistake.

How are the gender ratios screwed up in gen 6?

FractalSandwich
Apr 25, 2010


Dr. Fetus posted:

Unless someone actually took a look at the entire code and found the bug in question, there's always room for doubt. (Painfully speaking from experience here.)
the battle tower AI definitely cheats, though, right

Araxxor
Oct 20, 2012

My disdain for you all knows no bounds.


MightyPretenders posted:

How are the gender ratios screwed up in gen 6?

In all gens, gender is determined by personality value which has a bunch of random numbers in it and such.

Long story short, in gens 3 through 5, gender was determined by not an X out of 8 RNG call, but an X out of... 255 call instead. So gender ratios were slightly lopsided (like 50/50 chances were actually 50.39% of being male, and a 49.61% chance of being female.) Gen 6 changed things around, like the thresholds for the gender values were properly changed for an X out of 256 call, which would have fixed the slightly lopsided values... except the RNG now works on an X out of 252 chance instead. Which actually made the gender ratios even more lopsided than before! (Pokemon that are more likely to be male will be even more likely to be male, and such.) On the plus side, 50/50 chances are actually 50/50 chances now!

FractalSandwich posted:

the battle tower AI definitely cheats, though, right

oh totally, how else would you explain my devastating loss at battle 49???

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.



Clapping Larry

Has there ever been a Pokemon game where you played a psychic? That seems like it might be a neat wrinkle.

Blueberry Pancakes
Aug 18, 2012

Jack in!! MegaMan, Execute!


A lot of the trainer classes seem like they'd be fun to focus on, really.

Radio Free Kobold
Aug 11, 2012

"Federal regulations mandate that at least 30% of our content must promote Reptilian or Draconic culture. This is DJ Scratch N' Sniff with the latest mermaid screeching on KBLD..."






Glazius posted:

Has there ever been a Pokemon game where you played a psychic? That seems like it might be a neat wrinkle.

No, but you can pretty easily do theme teams or type-specific runs in normal gameplay. A friend of mine put together a Kaiju team, using 'mons straight out of those old monster movies like Godzilla. I ran through Moon with a Ghost-type team and it worked pretty well. Having a few really big type weakness throws unexpected challenges at you; dark types wound up giving me a lot of trouble but normally I wouldn't give them a second thought. If I was going to run through US/UM again I'd probably do a Bug type team because hoo boy has Gen7 ever been kind to Bug types.

Radio Free Kobold fucked around with this message at 03:31 on Mar 28, 2018

Ibblebibble
Nov 12, 2013



I've always wanted to do a mono-poison run myself.

Carbon dioxide
Oct 9, 2012



Explopyro posted:

I'm glad you liked my suggestion for Pelipper This is looking like a solid contest team.

Now, for another of my weird obsessions in this game.

The Safari Zone Pokeblock mechanics are really weird. I see what they were trying to do, I think, sort of running with the "bait" concept from the Kanto safari zone and asking "what if we let you customise it?". I think it could've been a lot of fun. But there are so many hoops to jump through, and so many limitations (you have to make them in advance, and the Pokeblock Case has a maximum capacity of 40!) that I don't think anyone really ever used it.

I also don't think it was thoroughly quality tested, because a lot of things behave... strangely, even beyond the "escape factor bug". Bulbapedia's information isn't entirely correct either; I've been trying to work it out for a while (quite casually, and I still have a lot more data to gather, so I can't offer firm conclusions yet; if there's any interest, I can report back when I know more). I find it fascinating that this game's been out for so long and nobody seems to have concrete information on this mechanic; I've done a lot of googling and not found anything.

To make a long story short, it does seem at least to work as intended with single-flavour pokeblocks in the feeders (i.e., red/blue/pink/green/yellow). If you use one of those, it causes ~80% of the pokemon that appear to have a nature that likes that flavour (so, e.g., a red pokeblock will get natures that boost attack, Lonely/Brave/Adamant/Naughty). Contrary to what Bulbapedia claims, it doesn't restrict anything, and every nature is still capable of appearing (even those that dislike it).

Where it starts to get really bizarre is when using pokeblocks with more than one flavour. I haven't tested every combination yet, as there are a lot of possibilities and I'm trying to make some scripts to expedite collecting the data, so I have no firm conclusions yet. But, for instance, if you use a purple pokeblock with equal quantities spicy and dry... well, in my test I caught 420 pokemon and 342 of them were Mild, Rash or Quiet (and of those, 186 were Rash, which is another layer of strangeness). From the way it's supposed to behave, you'd expect Lonely, Naughty and Brave to be equally frequent, but they appeared no more often than any others. (There's not a simple explanation either; in some cases, such as berry blending, spicy can get negated by dry, but you get a similar result with a block that has equal spicy and sweet instead so it isn't that). I'd been hoping to just be able to test a few representative cases to figure out how it works, but every result has contradicted my expectations enough that I decided I have to do it exhaustively if I want to understand it. But it's tedious work and I have a tendency to procrastinate.

Long story short, if you want to use the feeders, stick to single-flavour pokeblocks. (It's also worth bringing either the Acro Bike or a pokemon knowing Sweet Scent, so you can trigger encounters without taking steps.) If you want good news, at least the feeders don't care how well-made the pokeblocks are, so you can phone it in with the minigame. Overall though, everstone breeding is a much easier method of getting a pokemon with the nature you want, and that works on everything (once you have access to Ditto, anyway) rather than just the small number of pokemon available in the safari zone.

I have also been unable to replicate the "escape factor bug" personally. I didn't try very hard, mind; that said, it's also hard to tell if it's working, because there's no way to waste an arbitrary number of turns and see that the thing is unable to flee (all you can do is throw balls and pray not to catch it). I seem to remember having tried this a while back, followed the strategy and still had the pokemon flee. But it's entirely possible I could've done it wrong, so let's not read too much into that.

First random thought: Maybe for the Feeder, it takes only the flavour of either the first or last berry that went into the pokeblock?

Kikas
Oct 30, 2012

EAT THE FISH!
EAT THE BERRIES!
TO THE CAVE!
HIBERNATE


AGDQ 2018 Awful Block Survivor



Ibblebibble posted:

I've always wanted to do a mono-poison run myself.

I would think that Gen V would be a good place to start, just cause you can get Scolipede.

Explopyro
Mar 18, 2018




Heh, well, I'm glad to see so much interest in my little project! I will certainly report back when I have results.

Carbon dioxide posted:

First random thought: Maybe for the Feeder, it takes only the flavour of either the first or last berry that went into the pokeblock?

It's a good thought, but I'm fairly certain the game doesn't save any information regarding which berries went in, and other data I have isn't consistent with that hypothesis. I've tested a few near-identical pokeblocks made with very different combinations of berries and the results were similar enough to suggest it doesn't matter. (For what it's worth, during the time I've been doing this I've come up with a lot of explanations that I thought made sense, only to then do another trial and get results that disproved it.)

On a different note, while we're talking about pokeblock flavours, there's another tidbit of information my experience shows Bulbapedia has wrong. (Crosspeice, I'll put this under spoiler text since it involves mechanics you haven't discussed yet in the LP, but I thought it might be worth mentioning preemptively since it could affect how you raise your contest team. If you prefer I edit this out of the post, just say the word.)

Bulbapedia claims that whether a pokemon eats a pokeblock "happily" or "disdainfully" affects the contest stat gains of the entire pokeblock. It doesn't, that's just flavour text (hey unintentional puns). The 10% bonus is applied to the pokemon's favoured stat regardless of the block's overall flavour, and likewise the 10% detriment to the un-favoured stat. Example: feed an Adamant pokemon (+cool, -beauty) a pokeblock with 10 spicy and 10 dry, it'll gain 11 cool and 9 beauty even though it'll react neutrally to it (liked and disliked flavour in equal quantities). If it worked the way they claim, it'd gain 10 and 10 instead. Likewise, if fed a block with 20 spicy and 10 dry, it would "happily eat" but the gains would be 22 and 9, the penalty still gets applied to the "disliked" flavour even when the preferred one dominates it, and vice versa.

Crosspeice
Aug 9, 2013

Zzzz... sploosh... zzzz... KABOOM... zzz... sploosh...

There's no spoiler policy, so talk about whatever, I know I'm coy about stuff, but it's mainly for when it goes on the archive and people are reading it in bulk. Feel free to talk about whatever whenever.

And it's good to go over this, cause I would've copied it verbatim from Bulbapedia without ever knowing it was wrong. It's really good to know that Nature is the only real factor for Pokeblock liking. Not that it matters since all the contesters have got maxed stats and feel anyway, but that's not a surprise.

Oh yeah, Pelipper's nickname is cutebirb, with 3 votes. Now to actually record the drat thing.

Crosspeice
Aug 9, 2013

Zzzz... sploosh... zzzz... KABOOM... zzz... sploosh...

Part 19: Eight Floors of Evil Hideouts



We'll check in with this later, but first, some idiots.



Turns out the completely suspicious area was actually suspicious!

Magma Hideout



Not the greatest security system. Let's go in!



This Emerald exclusive area is a pretty neat concept and we've ever got a new Pokemon in here.



And in the course of digging, we came across something that blew our minds! What did we find? Fuhahaha! I'll tell you if you beat me!




I won't tell you after all. You'll find out when you get there! It'd be better if you saved the surprises to the end, don't you think?

It's a good thing a lot of the grunts we'll be facing in this update only have the one Pokemon, because there's a lot of them and they're wholly uninteresting. I'll be skipping over a fair few of them, since there's about 30 trainers in this update that don't really contribute much to a worthwhile experience. You're welcome.



Compared to the Aqua Hideout that we'll go to after this, which is the Magma Hideout in Ruby, this place is pretty big and sprawling, like the volcano itself, which we are now going into the heart of.




Case in point, those four grunts that are giving Ranmaru pittance exp if nothing else.




Least there's some cool items here and it's pretty fun to explore, mainly because I don't remember every little detail of this place like I do the rest of the game.



Let's hope this item was worth guarding.



Yeah it was pretty good. Onwards.




That was overall a long dead end to get some sweet loot, so let's keep going the actual way.



I'm sure glad the staggering, vile heat and poisonous gases of lava don't happen in media. Though since we're underground this is technically magma.



Behind door number two?



I'll say, holy moley that's a rare item. A bonus for Emerald players.



Hmm, I wonder how that would go... well, back to the main room. Nothing but drills dozing here.



Well, I mean, Team Aqua needs to have some real good stuff to make me like them more.




Alright, enough with the riff raff, seems like we're getting close.



MAXIE went to GROUDON just seconds ago! It's going to awaken real soon! Hehe! Hehehe!



...are you kidding me right now?



Wargreymon is just gonna solo you, don't be too upset.



I feel like there's someone missing in this Team Magma... probably not that important then.



Alright, let's go see what Maxie's doing. I hope it's not anything stupid!



This BLUE ORB is what you sought. Wasn't it? I have brought you the BLUE ORB. Let its shine awaken you! And show me... show me the full extent of your power!

Groudon Awakens





GROUDON! What's wrong? Wasn't the BLUE ORB the key? GROUDON! Where have you gone...



I've seen you poking around uninvited here and there... I get it now! You must have pulled a cheap stunt!

VS Leader Maxie



Alright that's a bit better. It's round 2 against Maxie! Man, Archie is getting off easy.



That might've not been the best idea.



Super Potions? In this part of the game, in this second boss battle, on your first Pokemon, localised entirely within that health bar?



I can see why Maxie wants to expand the land. Using Camerupt as your ace is cool, but super risky.



How cute, his Golbat really likes him. It's a fast bugger too.



My dude, have you ever heard of Hyper Potions?

Magma Hideout



That's what you're trying to say, aren't you? Humph... you think I didn't know that? With GROUDON gone, there is no longer any need for this blasted volcano. I am going after GROUDON, so this is where we part!




Well I hope that series of events didn't just doom us all, so let's get out of here. This was some neat exclusive content, but there's still plenty left to go.

Slateport City



Now in the original games, after getting the orb from Mt. Pyre, Maxie/Archie will specifically say they're going to Slateport City next, whereas in Emerald, Archie doesn't say that at all, so you'll only know to come here if you visit their Hideout and told by the grunts blocking the way. Just a little peeve.



Man these guys get everywhere.



(GABBY) That's wonderful, CAPT. STERN! Thank you for taking the time from your busy schedule to talk to us. We hope we can interview you again with news of more discoveries!




We made a huge discovery on our last seafloor exploration. We found an underwater cavern on ROUTE 128. We think it's a habitat of a POKEMON that's said to have been long extinct.

Team Aqua Encounter



Your objectives are meaningless! We expect your total cooperation! Fufufu... just watch and learn what TEAM AQUA has planned!



Where did it come from? It's from the HARBOR! The submarine! They're trying to take it! YUKI! Please, come with me!



When I was younger, I though the evil team was using a PA system to reach outside the shipyard. But no, it's just Archie standing in here using a megaphone. That's a million times better.



But now... no one can stop us! No one! Or, will you follow us back to our HIDEOUT in LILYCOVE CITY? Fwahahahaha...



I don't think underwater is how you enter a submarine, unless it's large enough for its own pressure room.



They can't be after the slumbering POKEMON at the bottom of the sea... But even if I were to chase them, I don't stand a chance against them...

Aqua Hideout



Another day, another evil team to flush out of a hideout.



Like the Magma grunts, there is nothing interesting about the Aqua Grunts, aside from being better dressed for their environment.



Ahah, teleporters! Let's go right.



Alright, let's go to that next teleporter down there.



Hmm, a real puzzle this one.




I dunno how many times I've done this puzzle, but uh, it's a lot. I could do it with my eyes closed if I wanted... but I won't. Let's see what our reward is.



Would've been more convenient to get a Magneton in New Mauville, but hey, saves me a catch. Now, which ball is the booby trap?



Ah, how could I, the guy who knows way too much about this lovely series for kids, be caught by surprise?



Nice nice nice nice nice nice. I've already caught a Fearow and Tentacruel with these already, so I'll be using them properly from now on, now that there's important Pokemon to use them on.




Please refer to my previous comments on the team's uniform.



Slowly but surely I'm levelling against these guys. Still more interesting than Rocket grunts I suppose.



...I really don't need more of these.




Does wasting my time really matter in a turn based RPG?



Alright that's enough grunts to last me for at least an... update. Sigh.



Got here already, did you? We underestimated you! But this is it! I'm a cut above the GRUNTS you've seen so far. I'm not stalling for time. I'm going to pulverise you!



Hey it's Matt! You remember Matt, right? Such a crazy personality that's the exact same as Tabitha's, what a great character.




Alright fine there's not much to say about Matt.



While I was toying with you, our BOSS got through his preparations!



Our BOSS has already gone on his way to some cave under the sea! If you're going to give chase, you'd better search the big, wide sea beyond LILYCOVE. But will you find it then? Hehehe!



Well wasn't that fun? Seems there's still a bit more to these two crazy schemes. Now let me put off going beyond Lilycove.



Eyy, it's an Egg. We've got one more baby to get, but since it's Azurill, it can wait until postgame.



It's a widdle rodent. And since Pikachu had the Light Ball...



It's got Volt Tackle, a cool move with 120BP, 15PP and 100% accuracy that deals recoil damage equal to 1/3rd damage dealt. It's pretty neat, but other Pokemon would like it a lot more than the Pikachu family. Also remember that this is not an Egg move, it can only be passed down when one of the parents holds the Light Ball.



We'll also give the only recipient of the Thunderstone in this game a Thunderstone. As well as evolve a few other Pokemon here.

Surfing



Okay. Here we go. You might have noticed there's a lot of water on this region's map. Well, that's where the rest of the game is, pretty much. I hope you like Swimmers! Like with the three warm-up routes in our backtrack update, I'll be skipping a few trainers here and there. But hey, let's start things off with a double battle!



poo poo, you can't run on water, so trainers have a chance of looking away just as you press the button to walk into their field of view. Oh well then.




I hope you like Water types too, cause there's still quite a good chunk of the dex we haven't encountered yet. And of course most of the trainers barely use any of them.



But yeahhhhhhh, this is what the next few updates are gonna look like, just large, empty expanses of water. It's definitely different, but man it's not the best thing for an SSLP. But don't worry, I've got a few things to help break up the endless amounts of water and swimmers we'll be going over.



I wonder how many free samples I've gotten so far.



Sigh... here I am in the sea, but who's with me? My little brother! Let's battle so I won't have to dwell on that!



There's some cool Water Pokemon in this game, but where can I catch them???



Will you battle with us again? But take it easy next time, okay? My big sister is really scary when she gets angry. That's why she doesn't have a boyfriend.

ROY! it's your fault we lost! You're in for it later! Sigh... if only it wasn't my little brother next to me, but a nice boyfriend...




If you have no idea where I am in the route right now, don't worry about it, I'm just surfing around, having a time. Just know there's nothing but trainers as far as the eye can see.




We could explore literally every single water route in one go if we wanted. But that sounds like hell, so let's not. Just keep heading east to the next city.



Oh thank god, civilization.

"resting at the bottom."

This guy will be useful for us later, cause we need to give him some shards.



Land ho! Next time, we've got an island to explore.

Crosspeice fucked around with this message at 16:38 on Apr 5, 2018

Crosspeice
Aug 9, 2013

Zzzz... sploosh... zzzz... KABOOM... zzz... sploosh...

Is it time for our final team member? I think it really is. So, what do you call a shivering child wearing a straw cloak?

FoolyCharged
Oct 11, 2012

Somebody call for an ant?



s' no ball

Leraika
Jun 14, 2015

slime time



Otterpop

Rahonavis
Jan 11, 2012

"Clevuh gurrrl..."


Olaf

(I regret nothing.)

OgretailFood
Oct 9, 2012

Recommended by 10 out of 10 Aragami



Iggy Loo

Haifisch
Nov 12, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender

Krampus

SageNytell
Sep 28, 2008

<REDACT> THIS!


'Cold Gregg'

Toyotasomi no Miko
Oct 23, 2016


Oh, I think that'll be an interesting team member if I know what I'm seeing.

And if that hunch is right, we should call 'er Hauki. Or him. Either or.

Digamma-F-Wau
Mar 22, 2016

...puh-
puhroud..??




taking his evolved form into account: Jason

Jade Rider
May 11, 2007

All the pages have been censored except for "heck," and she misread that one.





Also holy poo poo I don't think I ever realized the Magma Hideout in Emerald was a thing.

Verant
Oct 20, 2012

Go on an adventure ordained by fate?
-->Okay.
-->Eh.

Frost Miser

MissileWaster
Jul 2, 2007

Remember that one time you totally botched that snap?


Cold Boy

ApeHawk
Jun 6, 2010

All the NPCs will look up and shout, "Do this quest!"
and I'll whisper, "Sure, why not."


Cone/head

Kurieg
Jul 19, 2012






Blaze Dragon
Aug 28, 2013
LOWTAX'S SPINE FUND



I get this is not ORAS, but still, if it was, it would be Wario.

AweStriker
Oct 6, 2014



FrostMiser because we only have 10 characters I think

Radio Free Kobold
Aug 11, 2012

"Federal regulations mandate that at least 30% of our content must promote Reptilian or Draconic culture. This is DJ Scratch N' Sniff with the latest mermaid screeching on KBLD..."






Snowbro

rannum
Nov 3, 2012



Volt Tackle is funny because despite being in the games since RS you're unable to learn it at all until Emerald.

It's also a somewhat inexplicable Pulseman reference! This is more obvious in Smash Bros since it's more visually reminiscent

sebzilla
Mar 17, 2009

Kid's blasting everything in sight with that new-fangled musket.




SageNytell posted:

'Cold Gregg'

Yeah, this one

mycelia
Apr 28, 2013

just a big doofus fightin pokemons





AweStriker posted:

FrostMiser because we only have 10 characters I think

This is a good name.

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.



Clapping Larry

So how many routes in this game have some element of sea about them?

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mandatory lesbian
Dec 18, 2012


Glazius posted:

So how many routes in this game have some element of sea about them?

I think technically the number is low, like only 5 or 6, but those routes are half the size of the map

I never had a problem with the water routes but im also smart enough to buy repels

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