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feedmyleg
Dec 25, 2004

EVERY FAIRY TALE NEEDS ITS HERO.



There's been massive advances in AI/neural-network colorizing over the past couple of years, so I'd imagine we're all going to have to suck it up and get used to it soon enough. I'd imagine that the current Venn diagram of people who are interested in watching content from the 50s and before is almost fully overlapped with people who realize that the things were shot with black and white photography in mind and that modifying it destroys the original intent.

That being said, Turner's ideas do unfortunately have some amount of validity (50% audience drop-off for black and white content) and if it becomes something that's as easy as clicking a "Colorize" button I can see it being a fairly widely adopted option, either by studios or by audiences. And yes, for incredible works of art it would be sacrilege, but there's tons of older content that doesn't fit that category. Like, is anyone really worried about the cinematography of the first Gilligan's Island season being ruined by having the colors match the subsequent seasons? The colorized Bewitched is perfectly fine and innocuous whenever I see it pop up.

As an experiment last year I overlaid some colorized King Kong on top of the Blu-ray. It honestly looked pretty seamless and convincing. I wouldn't recommend any first-timer watch it that way and I would feel deeply unsettled if anyone I knew did, but it's certainly a fun novelty if you're revisiting something. I want to say that someone who needs to watch a compromised version of a film in order to watch it at all probably shouldn't be engaging with that work to begin with, but how many of us watched classic films on garbled old VHS tapes, or cut apart for TV or, hell, on that old black and white TV your parents kept in the basement?

All that being said, I don't think we're at risk of anyone watching a colorized Night of the Hunter. The person who even knows what that film is will pretty much always be inclined to watch it with the original intent, unless it's some dumb-dumb film student who is assigned it and hasn't developed good sense yet.

e: again, not advocating for this future, but:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SM9YwN_Dvv0

feedmyleg fucked around with this message at 15:38 on Jun 19, 2020

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Cemetry Gator
Apr 3, 2007

Do you find something comical about my appearance when I'm driving my automobile?


I always wondered about people who couldn't watch something if it was in black and white. It's something I can't understand.

I wonder if their issue with black and white has to do with the production values of the time. A lot more has changed over the years than just the use of color - for example, acting styles or even how the camera moves. Compare a show like MASH, which is in color, to Breaking Bad. I'm Breaking Bad, the camera is moving constantly, even if the position isn't changing because it's going for a hand-held style.

Little things like that add up.

But honestly, I dislike colorization. It's like pan & scan to me. Honestly, if you're incapable of watching something in black and white, then that's your failure to engage with the material. There's plenty of color films out there for you to enjoy that you don't need to mess with black and white movies.

Detective No. 27
Jun 7, 2006



The new "I can't watch things in black and white" is "I don't watch anything before 2000."

feedmyleg
Dec 25, 2004

EVERY FAIRY TALE NEEDS ITS HERO.



Audiences today expect TV to be cinematic and don't have the history or context to realize that anything before the 70s (or often even 90s) is more filmed theatre than cinema. It's an expectations thing, especially for people who haven't watched much if any theatre because television has taken its place in smaller communities.

e: And it's not that I disagree with what you're saying, Cemetry Gator, but I watched and appreciated a ton of films in pan-and-scan in the 90s. If it hadn't been for those films, I likely wouldn't have gotten so into older media to begin with. For a 13 year old today, watching The Maltese Falcon in color could be the beginning of their cinematic education, where they look back a decade later and cringe at having seen it colorized the first time around. Sure, most of that 50% is never going to engage with that media to begin with, but that crowd isn't a total wash.

feedmyleg fucked around with this message at 16:21 on Jun 19, 2020

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!



Fun Shoe

Cemetry Gator posted:

I always wondered about people who couldn't watch something if it was in black and white. It's something I can't understand.

I wonder if their issue with black and white has to do with the production values of the time. A lot more has changed over the years than just the use of color - for example, acting styles or even how the camera moves. Compare a show like MASH, which is in color, to Breaking Bad. I'm Breaking Bad, the camera is moving constantly, even if the position isn't changing because it's going for a hand-held style.

Yea looking back I think that's what it was for me as a kid. The black and white was just one aspect of old films that made it hard for me to sit back and immerse myself, it felt like I was constantly being reminded that this movie isn't like the ones I know and love.

I had to get a bit older and realize that old films were an opportunity to transport yourself back to that time in some small way. To see how films were made and how stories were told back then. I needed to have a few years under my belt to enjoy that sort of thing I guess. And of course once I got into film more and more and started to appreciate things like cinematography and lighting, well it became pretty easy to understand why black and white films can be so great.

Film just means different things to different people. Some live their whole life and never really engage with film outside of it being some frivolous entertainment to kill a few hours with, and that's perfectly fine.

Edit: Aaaaaand just got the email that my Columbia 4k set is ready for pickup. Soon Lawrence 4k will finally be in my hands.

Basebf555 fucked around with this message at 16:03 on Jun 19, 2020

Vince MechMahon
Jan 1, 2008





I have no issues with colorization as long as the original is given the same treatment and restoration and is also available.

CPL593H
Oct 28, 2009

I know what you did last summer, and frankly I am displeased.

Iron Crowned posted:

Did anyone actually like colorization?

Richard Elfman?

feedmyleg posted:

Audiences today expect TV to be cinematic and don't have the history or context to realize that anything before the 70s (or often even 90s) is more filmed theatre than cinema. It's an expectations thing, especially for people who haven't watched much if any theatre because television has taken its place in smaller communities.

e: And it's not that I disagree with what you're saying, Cemetry Gator, but I watched and appreciated a ton of films in pan-and-scan in the 90s. If it hadn't been for those films, I likely wouldn't have gotten so into older media to begin with. For a 13 year old today, watching The Maltese Falcon in color could be the beginning of their cinematic education, where they look back a decade later and cringe at having seen it colorized the first time around. Sure, most of that 50% is never going to engage with that media to begin with, but that crowd isn't a total wash.

The difference with VHS/4:3/pan and scan/etc is that outside of things most people didn't have/ couldn't get like laserdiscs and widescreen tapes those compromised versions were the only way you could see the movie in that era. Some movies on tape were open matte so the image displayed theatrically wasn't lost. And Kubrick was well known for shooting his films to work on television broadcasts. James Cameron did this too and at one point even said he preferred those versions, but I digress. Colorizing black and white films is evil.

Vince MechMahon posted:

I have no issues with colorization as long as the original is given the same treatment and restoration and is also available.

Something something Star Wars.

Steen71
Apr 10, 2017



Fun Shoe


I like how the neural network makes the sky blue in Lord of the Rings. That film is, of course, infamous for originally having blue skies, and then having sickly green skies on the Extended Edition BD because someone thought that was a great idea. I assume it was colour "corrected" by the someone from Ritrovata.
https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?go=1&a=0&d1=5240&d2=5239&s1=48918&s2=48934&i=6&l=0

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!



Fun Shoe

So the individual films in the Columbia set come with their own nice slip covers and cases so if you wanted to you could shelve them in your collection individually. I might actually do that, I haven't decided yet. I love that they gave me the option though.

Iron Crowned
May 6, 2003


CPL593H posted:

The difference with VHS/4:3/pan and scan/etc is that outside of things most people didn't have/ couldn't get like laserdiscs and widescreen tapes those compromised versions were the only way you could see the movie in that era. Some movies on tape were open matte so the image displayed theatrically wasn't lost. And Kubrick was well known for shooting his films to work on television broadcasts. James Cameron did this too and at one point even said he preferred those versions, but I digress. Colorizing black and white films is evil.

Yeah, I think the big thing that confuses me about colorization is just who would it appeal to IRL? IF you're trying to bring a modern audience to an old film, they're not going to be interested in it no matter how many colorized or CGI Special editions you throw at them.

On the other hand, people like us who like movies made before 1985 and have 800 Blu Rays on the shelf are going to want to watch it in the way it was originally intended.

Nihonniboku
Aug 11, 2004

YOU CAN FLY!!!

Cemetry Gator posted:

I wonder if their issue with black and white has to do with the production values of the time. A lot more has changed over the years than just the use of color - for example, acting styles or even how the camera moves. Compare a show like MASH, which is in color, to Breaking Bad. I'm Breaking Bad, the camera is moving constantly, even if the position isn't changing because it's going for a hand-held style.

Little things like that add up.

Acting is a big one for me. The style of acting used in old Hollywood is very distracting to me. I suspect that is the same for a lot of people. It just so happens that those movies are in black and white. The lack of color is just the easiest way to dismiss older movies.

FilthyImp
Sep 30, 2002

Nope



Listening to a lot of radio serials, you see how much that style of performance informed the vocal range of the era.

Edward Mass
Sep 14, 2011

fuck the molice


4:3 aspect ratio is the new black and white.

CPL593H
Oct 28, 2009

I know what you did last summer, and frankly I am displeased.

Edward Mass posted:

4:3 aspect ratio is the new black and white.

Don't even get me started on this.

Liar Lyre
Jun 3, 2011

TOOT TOOT
All aboard!


Everything you need to know about Severinís sale next week. Highlights include 50% most titles (sans newer releases), 6 new titles from Lucio Fulci and Jess Franco, the return of Blood on Satanís Claw and The Beast must Die, and nipple pasties.

Vince MechMahon
Jan 1, 2008





Basebf555 posted:

So the individual films in the Columbia set come with their own nice slip covers and cases so if you wanted to you could shelve them in your collection individually. I might actually do that, I haven't decided yet. I love that they gave me the option though.

This pushed me over the edge to get it. If I can just throw the big dumb case somewhere and have the movies on the movie shelf, that's great.

Iron Crowned
May 6, 2003


Liar Lyre posted:

nipple pasties.

I was going to sit this one out

Doctor Teeth
Sep 11, 2008



lots of old silents had tinting though, and it's kind of a shame that the backlash to the colorization of genuine black and white classics made it so that old silents that should have color are b/w now

ultraviolence123
Jul 3, 2002


The Severin titles are pretty disappointing this time out. I participated in 88 Films' crowdfunding for Aenigma, so I already have a copy of the movie (with my name in the credits), and minus a new scan of The Beast Must Die and finally Demonia, the rest are either extras from an old DVD, or a D-level Jess Franco movie. I'm not sure what / if I'll buy many. Minus the nipple pasties.

VoodooXT
Feb 24, 2006
I want Tong Po! Give me Tong Po!

As someone who doesn't own any Severin titles yet, what are some recommended titles to buy?

Iron Crowned
May 6, 2003


VoodooXT posted:

As someone who doesn't own any Severin titles yet, what are some recommended titles to buy?

If you're into folk horror, Blood on Satan's Claw.

I didn't like the Changeling at first, but it haunted me and made me like it the more I stewed on it.

William Shatner fights Earnest Borgnine The Devil in The Devil's Rain

Non-horror there's BMX Bandits, The Stunt Man, and The Wild Geese.

The Peanut butter Solution probably hosed you up as a kid.

I, Butthole
Jun 30, 2007

Begin the operations of the gas chambers, gas schools, gas universities, gas libraries, gas museums, gas dance halls, and gas threads, etcetera.
I DEMAND IT


VoodooXT posted:

As someone who doesn't own any Severin titles yet, what are some recommended titles to buy?

Threads, go into it as blind as possible.

McSpanky
Jan 16, 2005








feedmyleg posted:

e: again, not advocating for this future, but:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SM9YwN_Dvv0

I can't fairly assess this because it's also up-whatevering the footage to 60fps and I'd rather scratch my eyes out.

Liar Lyre
Jun 3, 2011

TOOT TOOT
All aboard!


VoodooXT posted:

As someone who doesn't own any Severin titles yet, what are some recommended titles to buy?

Viy and Santa Sangre are good along with what everyone else has recommended. Severin is mostly great stuff, itís just gross at times.

CPL593H
Oct 28, 2009

I know what you did last summer, and frankly I am displeased.

That Penelope Spheeris movie, the Boys Next Door, looks cool so I'll pick that up if I decide to actually buy something.

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!



Fun Shoe

Lawrence 4k was amazing as expected, but maybe the surprise standouts for me were scenes like the one in Auda ab Tayi's tent where they have the big meal at night with the crowd outside and the torches burning and all the colorful costumes etc. Or the scene where Lawrence goes off on his own and has the revelation about attacking Aqaba. Darker scenes that were brought to a whole new level, I think mostly due to HDR/Dolby Vision and the format's ability to maintain detail in the lower light situations.

Hedrigall
Mar 27, 2008

i'm a master of fright
and a demon of light
and i'll scare you right out of your pants


Finally doing my big media/shelves rearrangement this weekend, boy gently caress i have a lot of blurays :shepface:

Previously I had them all shelved alphabetically in three categories: live action movies, animated movies and TV shows/documentaries.

This time I might do something different, maybe director collections up front or all the boxsets first or something

I, Butthole
Jun 30, 2007

Begin the operations of the gas chambers, gas schools, gas universities, gas libraries, gas museums, gas dance halls, and gas threads, etcetera.
I DEMAND IT


Hedrigall posted:

Finally doing my big media/shelves rearrangement this weekend, boy gently caress i have a lot of blurays :shepface:

Previously I had them all shelved alphabetically in three categories: live action movies, animated movies and TV shows/documentaries.

This time I might do something different, maybe director collections up front or all the boxsets first or something

I know this has been discussed to death in this thread but I honestly have no idea how anyone can deal with anything non-alphabetical.

The only exception to this rule for me is I have three shelfs for boutique labels such as Arrow/VinSyn/Eureka, which are grouped by label (but are alphabetically sorted per label), a separate section for Criterion becayse they outnumber all other boutique stuff, then I separate TV and movies.

DVDs and Blus are NOT allowed to touch, except the Beastie Boys criterion DVD because it's fly as gently caress

I, Butthole
Jun 30, 2007

Begin the operations of the gas chambers, gas schools, gas universities, gas libraries, gas museums, gas dance halls, and gas threads, etcetera.
I DEMAND IT


pre emptive :whitewater: for binders

Hedrigall
Mar 27, 2008

i'm a master of fright
and a demon of light
and i'll scare you right out of your pants


Okay Iím gonna try studio by chronology in the animated (Ghibli, WDAS, Pixar, Dreamworks and so on) and see if it drives me crazy and I go right back to alphabetical

Live action I might just leave alphabetical. Hey that reminds me, where do differently named movies in a franchise go in your collections? For instance is Prometheus right after the Alien movies, or down in the Pís? See also: Logan, Creed 1&2, Rogue One, the Rises and Dawns and Wars of Planets of Apes, etc

I, Butthole
Jun 30, 2007

Begin the operations of the gas chambers, gas schools, gas universities, gas libraries, gas museums, gas dance halls, and gas threads, etcetera.
I DEMAND IT


Hedrigall posted:

Live action I might just leave alphabetical. Hey that reminds me, where do differently named movies in a franchise go in your collections? For instance is Prometheus right after the Alien movies, or down in the P’s? See also: Logan, Creed 1&2, Rogue One, the Rises and Dawns and Wars of Planets of Apes, etc

I've got Prometheus and Dawn/War/Rise out in their own sections because it ticked me off too much having them together :spergin:

CPL593H
Oct 28, 2009

I know what you did last summer, and frankly I am displeased.

My movies are arranged alphabetical in rows and then those rows are covered by dozens of other movies in stacks because I have no room left and my life is a goddamn shamble.

Hedrigall
Mar 27, 2008

i'm a master of fright
and a demon of light
and i'll scare you right out of your pants


CPL593H posted:

My movies are arranged alphabetical in rows and then those rows are covered by dozens of other movies in stacks because I have no room left and my life is a goddamn shamble.

:hfive:

Hedrigall
Mar 27, 2008

i'm a master of fright
and a demon of light
and i'll scare you right out of your pants




Animation, first divided by anime vs western; then within those two categories into major studios followed by ďthe restĒ followed by tv series

feedmyleg
Dec 25, 2004

EVERY FAIRY TALE NEEDS ITS HERO.



Mine are by genre. I've got a significantly smaller collection than most of y'all, so it's easy for me to just go to the horror section, scan some spines, then find what I'm looking for. I like it because if I know I'm in the mood for a drama but not sure what, I'll go to the section and something will jump out to me. Alphabetical doesn't allow for that.

FilthyImp
Sep 30, 2002

Nope



I have limited space and kids so we literally have a box for the stuff that doesn't fit (or is just meh).

Ooh, I am weak and ordered that Krull blu that looks like a VHS rental sleeve.

Vince MechMahon
Jan 1, 2008





I used to have alphabetical but with boutique labels separated out but ran out of room so now other than criterion it's all just alphabetical. Except for comic book poo poo which also has its own areas.

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!



Fun Shoe

Non-alphabetical was fine when I had like 50-100 blu rays and I could basically remember off the top of my head where a given movie would be. It would be much tougher now that I have about three times that many, once in a while I forget if I even own a movie and have to go remind myself.

Liar Lyre
Jun 3, 2011

TOOT TOOT
All aboard!


Hedrigall posted:

Okay Iím gonna try studio by chronology in the animated (Ghibli, WDAS, Pixar, Dreamworks and so on) and see if it drives me crazy and I go right back to alphabetical

Live action I might just leave alphabetical. Hey that reminds me, where do differently named movies in a franchise go in your collections? For instance is Prometheus right after the Alien movies, or down in the Pís? See also: Logan, Creed 1&2, Rogue One, the Rises and Dawns and Wars of Planets of Apes, etc

Most franchises I group together and then put the titles in release order. Star Wars goes 1-9 then Rouge One & Solo. I keep Creed after Rocky for now, but Logan is on its own right now instead of with X-men. It just comes down to what makes sense to you. Do you categorize the MCU movies all together or by sub series? I do the later but the former makes perfect sense too.

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dorium
Nov 5, 2009

If it gets in your eyes
Just look into mine
Just look into dreams
and you'll be alright
I'll be alright








my shelf is getting kinda over stuffed now, but its all alphabetical sorted by genre and the weird shaped boxes go to the right in their own alphabetical order.

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