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DEEP STATE PLOT
Aug 13, 2008

Yes...Ha ha ha...YES!




Annointed posted:

https://twitter.com/ChannelAwesome/...766720506552322

I see Doug has shifted to the alt right crowd.

well hey brad jones already did that and brad is the only one who stuck with doug, so why the hell wouldn't he

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Archer666
Dec 27, 2008



Annointed posted:

https://twitter.com/ChannelAwesome/...766720506552322

I see Doug has shifted to the alt right crowd.

Duckman is good poo poo.

Doug Walker is bad poo poo.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

I may not be as cute as the other girls, but I'm the best at arm wrestling!


Farm Frenzy posted:

I don't expect anyone to watch the cancelling video because its really long and weird but i took it as making this distinction in the end - she agrees with most of the criticism and points out that people yelling at her on twitter hasn't really hurt her. she had a few lovely weeks on twitter that she recovered from because she has IRL friends and a career while other people who have the cancelling ritual done to them online can get seriously harmed.
you mean like the people she cancelled, in that video, lol


Annointed posted:

https://twitter.com/ChannelAwesome/...766720506552322

I see Doug has shifted to the alt right crowd.
i like that the first reply links to rebeltaxi's video on duckman

Spatula City
Oct 21, 2010

LET ME EXPLAIN TO YOU WHY YOU ARE WRONG ABOUT EVERYTHING

Farm Frenzy posted:

I don't expect anyone to watch the cancelling video because its really long and weird but i took it as making this distinction in the end - she agrees with most of the criticism and points out that people yelling at her on twitter hasn't really hurt her. she had a few lovely weeks on twitter that she recovered from because she has IRL friends and a career while other people who have the cancelling ritual done to them online can get seriously harmed.

this debate sucks because the source material is all lovely thinkpieces and youtubes and everyone just talks past eachother anyway. i think people are just gonna get tired of saying the word soon

also very few of the people involved are truly bad people intentionally doing harm. it's a bunch of crabs in a bucket loving each other up because they can't get out of the bucket. there was no productive outcome, nobody came out of it having won anything, except a few shitheads gaining clout, and the alt-right getting to gloat about the left being in disarray. it basically convinced me that content creators on Youtube have little to no significant role in a mass left movement. and Twitter is cancerous and so many of the big clout trans/enby people on there are deeply unwell and respond to adversity by passing their misery on to as many people as they can. I would like to say that while I have a lot of feelings about other things Contra did, she did not do anything wrong featuring those lovely tweets. it seems like there's a principle that you can say anything you want to a public figure online with zero consequences. not merely zero censorship, but zero consequences. and, uh. no. I got my first Twitter account suspended for repeatedly being a jackass to a particular blue check. Did I rage about the injustice? no, because I kinda deserved it. Because while we usually don't face the consequences of being jackasses online, it is possible we could at any point.

anyway the intent was clearly not to harass those people either, but to demonstrate what people had been saying to her. should she have blanked out all identifying information? I dunno. She wasn't inciting harassment. that's bullshit. whatever else I think about her, that's untrue. more than that, the notion was a lie to begin with, a lie I even initially bought into. it was asserted within hours of the video's release, with the obvious hope people would see it before or instead of watching the video. and now it's bulletproof bullshit. people will be repeating it for years to come. does not make it true, and I'm not going to argue about this because I am correct, and you know it.

Twitter is a mistake, Youtube is a mistake. Contra is problematic, but whatever, the discourse is over, for both bad and good. you cannot either criticize or praise her. Because you don't know who's going to come barreling around a corner holding a rhetorical chainsaw, either for her or against her. all that's left is to just post her videos or not, with no commentary. which is kinda a problem for a content creator, isn't it? having even talking about their videos online become loving impossible? I think the cancellers did kinda win, and it's going to take a while to see how complete their (stupid, pyrrhic) victory was.

Hungry
Jul 14, 2006



Spatula City posted:

anyway the intent was clearly not to harass those people either, but to demonstrate what people had been saying to her. should she have blanked out all identifying information? I dunno. She wasn't inciting harassment. that's bullshit. whatever else I think about her, that's untrue. more than that, the notion was a lie to begin with, a lie I even initially bought into. it was asserted within hours of the video's release, with the obvious hope people would see it before or instead of watching the video. and now it's bulletproof bullshit. people will be repeating it for years to come. does not make it true, and I'm not going to argue about this because I am correct, and you know it.

Spatula City posted:

I'm not going to argue about this because I am correct, and you know it.

Spatula City posted:

you don't know who's going to come barreling around a corner holding a rhetorical chainsaw, either for her or against her.

Hmmm.

fatherboxx
Mar 25, 2013



Katt posted:

While I loved Doom 2016. The original doom cyberdemon was more iconic in its design and I would rather have seen an updated version of that. The 2016 one looks more like a lumpy alien than a demon. The original cyberdemon gives more occult hell merged with machine vibes.

Good news, the Cyber Demon in Doom Eternal looks like the OG!
In fact most demons in Eternal are deliberately closer to sprites (even the soldiers have green hair now)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzX09_4hcPc

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017





Kunster posted:

Did he ever like, watch an entire Duckman ep in the first place? Like, for "This show is about an rear end in a top hat character", he ends up making his situation worse on a good part of the episodes, like, far more directly than let's say All In the Family.

That Doug fails to get Duckman isn't to be admired as a person is not the most shocking thing.

sexpig by night
Sep 8, 2011



it's just the same kinda brain problems that make people think Rick is a cool and admirable guy or watch Curb and think Larry is being victimized, people are dumb and can't see beyond 'main character = hero'. Like, same as the people who thought Joker was a movie about how cool it is to do shootings, people are dumb.

Antifa Turkeesian
Aug 20, 2006



Glad that Doug is continuing his lifelong trend of jumping onto trends 3-5 years too late. Looking forward to the immanent rehiring of amazing atheist so that they and brad jones can collaborate on a video about The Great Replacement and/or warn us about the tyranny of Anita Sarkeesian.

Pants Donkey
Nov 13, 2011

Uneasy lies the head that wears a crown.


This thread is not the internet, and I assure you people are still making spicy takes on Natalieís videos. This thread just doesnít have the energy to watch another 40 minute video from her which is why the discussion is more an exasperated ďWhat did she do this time?Ē

CmdrKing
Oct 14, 2012

Maybe if I called it 'Interpretive Stabbing'...

Spatula City posted:

Twitter is a mistake, Youtube is a mistake. Contra is problematic, but whatever, the discourse is over, for both bad and good. you cannot either criticize or praise her. Because you don't know who's going to come barreling around a corner holding a rhetorical chainsaw, either for her or against her. all that's left is to just post her videos or not, with no commentary. which is kinda a problem for a content creator, isn't it? having even talking about their videos online become loving impossible? I think the cancellers did kinda win, and it's going to take a while to see how complete their (stupid, pyrrhic) victory was.

Or the more likely outcome, COntra continues to be the first and only source for most cis people about trans issues, the lovely low-grade transmed views espoused by the channel continue to be the only mainstream counternarrative to raging bigotry, and in five years we ďwinĒ trans rights in a way that helps perhaps 20% of extremely binary trans people just like happened with marriage equality.

Bug Squash
Mar 18, 2009


YOU CAN STOMP US!

YOU CAN SQUASH US!

BUT YOU'LL NEVER EVER STOP US!


CmdrKing posted:

Or the more likely outcome, COntra continues to be the first and only source for most cis people about trans issues, the lovely low-grade transmed views espoused by the channel continue to be the only mainstream counternarrative to raging bigotry, and in five years we “win” trans rights in a way that helps perhaps 20% of extremely binary trans people just like happened with marriage equality.

I went to the SA trans thread to try and educate myself before it got locked. Not to post, just read people's discussions. Maybe it was healthy in the past, but there was just people being abusive to each other and accusing the mods of gaslighting. What I'm trying to say is that finding resources is genuinely hard, especially when a lot of material is disinformation being put out by terfs.

So at the moment, Contra is still probably the best starting point for a cis person to get babies first intro to trans issues. Her experiences aren't universal so it's important that people continue to find and read other sources, but like I said, she's useful as a starting point. Since it's been mentioned, I will say it's clear from her writings and the full body of her work that she isn't a transmedicalist.

Archer666
Dec 27, 2008



Bug Squash posted:

I went to the SA trans thread to try and educate myself before it got locked. Not to post, just read people's discussions. Maybe it was healthy in the past, but there was just people being abusive to each other and accusing the mods of gaslighting. What I'm trying to say is that finding resources is genuinely hard, especially when a lot of material is disinformation being put out by terfs.

So at the moment, Contra is still probably the best starting point for a cis person to get babies first intro to trans issues. Her experiences aren't universal so it's important that people continue to find and read other sources, but like I said, she's useful as a starting point. Since it's been mentioned, I will say it's clear from her writings and the full body of her work that she isn't a transmedicalist.

The SA trans threads in the d&d are/were pretty poisonous places yeah.

Contra works as a starter four outsiders cause I feel she can get information across in an interesting way that's easy to swallow if you're not familiar with trans stuff. And thats a positive.

bessantj
Jul 27, 2004




Awesome vid by Kim about non Fire Pro Japanese wrestling games. A video I did know I wanted just not how much.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-gagmnUQEY

watho
Aug 2, 2013


The real world will, again tomorrow, function and run without me.



the fact that contra is considered a really good starting point for outsiders is a big part of the problem, having weird and controversial opinions can be fine or at least unremarkable but the issue stems from the fact that theyíre packaged a trans 101

Ibram Gaunt
Jul 22, 2009


Spatula City posted:

also very few of the people involved are truly bad people intentionally doing harm. it's a bunch of crabs in a bucket loving each other up because they can't get out of the bucket. there was no productive outcome, nobody came out of it having won anything, except a few shitheads gaining clout, and the alt-right getting to gloat about the left being in disarray. it basically convinced me that content creators on Youtube have little to no significant role in a mass left movement. and Twitter is cancerous and so many of the big clout trans/enby people on there are deeply unwell and respond to adversity by passing their misery on to as many people as they can. I would like to say that while I have a lot of feelings about other things Contra did, she did not do anything wrong featuring those lovely tweets. it seems like there's a principle that you can say anything you want to a public figure online with zero consequences. not merely zero censorship, but zero consequences. and, uh. no. I got my first Twitter account suspended for repeatedly being a jackass to a particular blue check. Did I rage about the injustice? no, because I kinda deserved it. Because while we usually don't face the consequences of being jackasses online, it is possible we could at any point.

anyway the intent was clearly not to harass those people either, but to demonstrate what people had been saying to her. should she have blanked out all identifying information? I dunno. She wasn't inciting harassment. that's bullshit. whatever else I think about her, that's untrue. more than that, the notion was a lie to begin with, a lie I even initially bought into. it was asserted within hours of the video's release, with the obvious hope people would see it before or instead of watching the video. and now it's bulletproof bullshit. people will be repeating it for years to come. does not make it true, and I'm not going to argue about this because I am correct, and you know it.

Twitter is a mistake, Youtube is a mistake. Contra is problematic, but whatever, the discourse is over, for both bad and good. you cannot either criticize or praise her. Because you don't know who's going to come barreling around a corner holding a rhetorical chainsaw, either for her or against her. all that's left is to just post her videos or not, with no commentary. which is kinda a problem for a content creator, isn't it? having even talking about their videos online become loving impossible? I think the cancellers did kinda win, and it's going to take a while to see how complete their (stupid, pyrrhic) victory was.

She used people who didn't even @ her and were just saying something about contra to their 30 followers or whatever....Why show them? If it was just people who were directly engaging with her with @s or by responding directly I think it would be fair game to show them with their names blacked out but..Name searching herself and airing the responses had no other possible outcome than harassment. That whole segment was just mocking of people who were upset.

CmdrKing
Oct 14, 2012

Maybe if I called it 'Interpretive Stabbing'...

Bug Squash posted:


So at the moment, Contra is still probably the best starting point for a cis person to get babies first intro to trans issues. Her experiences aren't universal so it's important that people continue to find and read other sources, but like I said, she's useful as a starting point. Since it's been mentioned, I will say it's clear from her writings and the full body of her work that she isn't a transmedicalist.

I do miss a few of her videos as references. Autogynephilia and Tiffany Tumbles are decent intro points for debunking/thinking critically about certain topics.

But unless you mean some sort of published article somewhere... if youíre looking at the totality of ContraPoints channel and public statements and not seeing where it brushes with transmedicalism, Iím not sure your further reading has been as robust as you think.

lemonadesweetheart
May 27, 2010



bessantj posted:

Awesome vid by Kim about non Fire Pro Japanese wrestling games. A video I did know I wanted just not how much.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-gagmnUQEY

Kim's videos are always good and they don't get put in here enough.

Junpei Hyde
Mar 15, 2013


Never believe in lies





This is why probotector is the better series

Jamie Faith
Jan 13, 2020

Y2K girl


Annointed posted:

https://twitter.com/ChannelAwesome/...766720506552322

I see Doug has shifted to the alt right crowd.

I love how 99% of the replies are people dunking on Doug. Lmao get hosed Doug

Bonaventure
Jun 23, 2005



Spatula City posted:

it basically convinced me that content creators on Youtube have little to no significant role in a mass left movement.

whoa

Antifa Turkeesian
Aug 20, 2006



CmdrKing posted:

Or the more likely outcome, COntra continues to be the first and only source for most cis people about trans issues, the lovely low-grade transmed views espoused by the channel continue to be the only mainstream counternarrative to raging bigotry, and in five years we ďwinĒ trans rights in a way that helps perhaps 20% of extremely binary trans people just like happened with marriage equality.

What happened with marriage equality that could be called exclusionary? (This is an honest question and not meant as a challenge)

MiddleOne
Feb 17, 2011



Spatula City posted:

anyway the intent was clearly not to harass those people either, but to demonstrate what people had been saying to her. should she have blanked out all identifying information? I dunno. She wasn't inciting harassment. that's bullshit.

Literally everyone who has been on Twitter for more than five minutes knows that someone with a massive audience putting the spotlight on someone with no real followers is only going to end one way. That person will get dogpilled and harassed for days by well-intentioned idiots and crazy people. That's how Twitter works.

Yeah Youtube is not the normal way of doing it, but she might has well have been subtweeting them. We know it, Contra knew it and hell you knew it writing this post.

Ibram Gaunt posted:

She used people who didn't even @ her and were just saying something about contra to their 30 followers or whatever....Why show them? If it was just people who were directly engaging with her with @s or by responding directly I think it would be fair game to show them with their names blacked out but..Name searching herself and airing the responses had no other possible outcome than harassment. That whole segment was just mocking of people who were upset.

This one hundred times.

Antifa Turkeesian
Aug 20, 2006



Junpei Hyde posted:

This is why probotector is the better series

Is it morally right to watch the Harmony Gold Robotech if I want to learn more about anime?

Libluini
May 18, 2012

Did I predict the future?


Grimey Drawer

Junpei Hyde posted:

This is why probotector is the better series

I dunno, robots that die in one hit are kind of silly

Katt
Nov 14, 2017



fatherboxx posted:

Good news, the Cyber Demon in Doom Eternal looks like the OG!
In fact most demons in Eternal are deliberately closer to sprites (even the soldiers have green hair now)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzX09_4hcPc

Now I know the asteroid is going to hit us because that's awesome.

CmdrKing
Oct 14, 2012

Maybe if I called it 'Interpretive Stabbing'...

Antifa Turkeesian posted:

What happened with marriage equality that could be called exclusionary? (This is an honest question and not meant as a challenge)

Itís fine unto itself. It just only directly helps maybe 20% of queer people yet became an intense hyper focus of activism such that achieving it (via a single precarious court decision) was declared Gay Rights Achieved.

Junpei Hyde
Mar 15, 2013


Never believe in lies





Antifa Turkeesian posted:

Is it morally right to watch the Harmony Gold Robotech if I want to learn more about anime?

sure

Arcsquad12
Mar 4, 2013

I Love Satan


I mean you could also watch Macross Plus and seethe at how Harmony Gold has utterly hosed international licensing of Macross products.

MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Every species can smell its own extinction.




I tried watching Robotech when it got on Netflix and it's not great.

Pants Donkey
Nov 13, 2011

Uneasy lies the head that wears a crown.


Contrapoints as Trans 101 baffles me, because your average viewer would nope out after a few minutes. They tend to be way too weird and high-concept to serve as an introduction to anything. I guess Very Online millenials and Gen Z kids, but...they arenít ones who need an introduction to trans topics.

You donít teach a boomer about trans issues with a video that frequently takes a break for romantic bathtub interludes with a cardboard cutout of Kermit the Frog Jordan Peterson.

Sankara
Jul 18, 2008




CmdrKing posted:

Itís fine unto itself. It just only directly helps maybe 20% of queer people yet became an intense hyper focus of activism such that achieving it (via a single precarious court decision) was declared Gay Rights Achieved.

Yeah, it's very "Barack Obama was president so Racism Is Over" energy.

Pants Donkey
Nov 13, 2011

Uneasy lies the head that wears a crown.


To the public the capstone trans issues is bathrooms, so once congress passes a bathroom bill we will have achieved Trans Rights at last.

Ignore the fact that most states have no work protections for us (or cis gay folks).

rudecyrus
Nov 6, 2009

fuck you trolls



Jim talks about J Allen Brack.

Arcsquad12
Mar 4, 2013

I Love Satan


Correction, Jim talks about J Allen Brack in between taking over Philadelphia's wrestling scene.

Katt
Nov 14, 2017



I like Jim. Did Jim ever catch a break. Ever?

Like yeah he's internet famous with all the wealth, power and glory that comes with it. But he's pretty much toiled for it a few thousands subscribers at a time for over a decade. I don't think he ever went viral or anything. He's also one of the few. If not the only completely uncompromising personalities in mainstream youtube videogaming media. No sponsorships, no kissing up to the money. Just his own views come hell or high water.

Bakeneko
Jan 9, 2007



Pants Donkey posted:

Contrapoints as Trans 101 baffles me, because your average viewer would nope out after a few minutes. They tend to be way too weird and high-concept to serve as an introduction to anything. I guess Very Online millenials and Gen Z kids, but...they arenít ones who need an introduction to trans topics.

You donít teach a boomer about trans issues with a video that frequently takes a break for romantic bathtub interludes with a cardboard cutout of Kermit the Frog Jordan Peterson.

Thatís why her early videos were so much better. Back then she mostly just talked to the camera like a normal person, with maybe one or two brief appearances by a character in a silly costume. Then the characters gradually took over and the videos became less and less newbie-friendly.

LanceHunter
Nov 12, 2016



Katt posted:

I like Jim. Did Jim ever catch a break. Ever?

Like yeah he's internet famous with all the wealth, power and glory that comes with it. But he's pretty much toiled for it a few thousands subscribers at a time for over a decade. I don't think he ever went viral or anything. He's also one of the few. If not the only completely uncompromising personalities in mainstream youtube videogaming media. No sponsorships, no kissing up to the money. Just his own views come hell or high water.

I mean, Jimquisition episodes are often in the Youtube "trending" section the day they get released. And I don't know if him being "completely uncompromising" is actually a positive thing, as he will often beat a dead horse.

EDIT:

CmdrKing posted:

Itís fine unto itself. It just only directly helps maybe 20% of queer people yet became an intense hyper focus of activism such that achieving it (via a single precarious court decision) was declared Gay Rights Achieved.

I can't remember who it was who started posting a list of states where you could legally get fired if your boss saw the announcement of your gay wedding in the newspaper.

There's definitely a ways to go with things like nationwide workplace discrimination protections being the important steps yet to be taken. But it also gets frustrating when some members of the community do nothing but complain when a positive step like marriage equality has been taken because it's not the be-all, end-all fix for everything.

Like, it would undeniably be a better world if what people in this thread were claiming was true and the majority of cis people actually got their information about trans issues from Contrapoints. Clearly it wouldn't be perfect, but it would be much better, because in reality right now the majority of cis people are getting their information on trans issues from Fox News.

LanceHunter fucked around with this message at 18:42 on Feb 17, 2020

Archer666
Dec 27, 2008



Katt posted:

I like Jim. Did Jim ever catch a break. Ever?

Like yeah he's internet famous with all the wealth, power and glory that comes with it. But he's pretty much toiled for it a few thousands subscribers at a time for over a decade. I don't think he ever went viral or anything. He's also one of the few. If not the only completely uncompromising personalities in mainstream youtube videogaming media. No sponsorships, no kissing up to the money. Just his own views come hell or high water.

I do wonder if his wrestling clips with the logo in the video isn't just undisclosed sponsorship. Could be just the cynic in me, though.

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Antifa Turkeesian
Aug 20, 2006



CmdrKing posted:

Itís fine unto itself. It just only directly helps maybe 20% of queer people yet became an intense hyper focus of activism such that achieving it (via a single precarious court decision) was declared Gay Rights Achieved.

Makes sense. Thank you.

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