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BigRed0427
Mar 22, 2007

There's no one I'd rather be than me.



Capitalism cant melt steel beams.

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Kunster
Dec 24, 2006



Two fascist MPs got elected here and that was enough for the centre right party to instantly kick out their leader (The Environment Minister during the IMF-imposed government, to be more precise) and elect a Pepe who remade their party into a nationalist shout piece that jettisoned the idea of keeping most central infrastructure to go back to an imagined Deus Vult past. I am specifically picking Portugal not only because I live there, but because it was heralded as like one of the only places that keeps a left government in power on what can be considered to be the First World.

So yes those types could have easily spent years constantly passing "proposals" for everyone to vote on and then go the press (or Periscope) to poo poo talk all of them on the bathroom, with a centre press constantly entertaining him for the sake of "having daring ideas", even if the "daring ideas" is poo poo like "enslaving the romani people into prison labor" or "jettison the national healthcare system" or "shut down every single public school and hospital to force people into living outside the urban bubbles" and having a commentariat to go "Well it makes it all exciting. People who reject it just don't have better ideas."

Doctor Spaceman
Jul 6, 2010

"Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."


Carl was standing for UKIP in the European elections, not the British ones.

Most of the people with actual money / power had left UKIP to join the Brexit Party in a racism laundering scheme. The only reason people like Carl and Dankula got where they did in the party was because the party didn't matter.

Ghostlight
Sep 25, 2009

maybe for one second you can pause; try to step into another person's perspective, and understand that a watermelon is cursing me





Katt posted:

Gulag.
they did say coop

Pharohman777
Jan 14, 2012



Raenir Salazar posted:

So while I would have concerns whether the organizational or resources would exist in a post-capitalist society to produce the sort of block busters or pop culture sensations we love and enjoy; an argument could be made that you'd have a lot of people freed up to work on passion projects and work collaboratively on such projects. If all your needs are met and if telecommunications are advanced to allow for working from home, it should be possible for big organizations to perhaps still exist, except on a far more informal and volunteer and voluntary basis than before.

I can easily imagine anime studios still existing on a communal coop like basis where as long as their basic needs were met many animators and designers and producers would still get together because for many of them it was their passion for the medium that got them into things. If shows like Shirobako are even remotely accurate, then it should be fairly trivial. Not having to worry about corporate execs and stakeholders demanding compromises for funding just makes many of the final produced works to be more free from those constraints.

And since you don't need to worry about your basic needs, if the work place conditions ever got intolerable or toxic you can leave.

We'd probably still have a vastly reduced output of AAA games and box office blockbusters though because the sort of motivation and large organizations and top down structures would be a lot harder to pull off without the sort of leverage capitalism provides but I am thinking it wouldn't be categorically impossible. You'd have wider, more decentralized studios probably; and the kind of stuff they would work on would probably require a lot of democratic consensus making to function on a high level.

The pressures of outside funding/publishers are kinda needed to ensure that the devs don't feature creep stuff to oblivion, see star citizen. Management becomes very important in large projects as well to coordinate everything, and it seems utterly naive to assume 'people are willing to volunteer without compensation for difficult things like programming games if all needs are met'.

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010

ASK ME ABOUT MY LOVE OF EUGENICS AND MARIO 3



College Slice

Ghostlight posted:

they did say coop

A co-op or cooperative.


Pharohman777 posted:

The pressures of outside funding/publishers are kinda needed to ensure that the devs don't feature creep stuff to oblivion, see star citizen. Management becomes very important in large projects as well to coordinate everything, and it seems utterly naive to assume 'people are willing to volunteer without compensation for difficult things like programming games if all needs are met'.

But one can also argue that star citizen overpromised and got infected by bloat and scope creep because of capitalism; because the hype of promising a hugely ambitious immersive game helps with branding, marketing, and future sales.

I see no reason for there to be a need for a publisher-as-regulatory-agent because any such cooperative that fails to deliver and is crippled by dysfunction probably loses core staff who form a new one, but with blackjack.

Needing a publisher-as-brand to sell your games under their label is also hard to justify, maybe for international markets; maybe marketing is hard and you still wanna outsell other people? Who knows.

Ghostlight
Sep 25, 2009

maybe for one second you can pause; try to step into another person's perspective, and understand that a watermelon is cursing me





Pharohman777 posted:

The pressures of outside funding/publishers are kinda needed to ensure that the devs don't feature creep stuff to oblivion, see star citizen. Management becomes very important in large projects as well to coordinate everything, and it seems utterly naive to assume 'people are willing to volunteer without compensation for difficult things like programming games if all needs are met'.
People already currently program games of their own volition without their needs being met.

Argas
Jan 13, 2008
SRW Fanatic






Outsiders regulating game developers right now is responsible for a lot of brazen and lovely practices, as well as just plain unfinished and unpolished content.

Presumably in a society where everyone's basic needs are met, you would get games that are not loaded with gacha and/or grind, while still having some external or internal pressure to drive things towards release.

Eugene V. Dubstep
Oct 4, 2013



Argas posted:

Outsiders regulating game developers right now is responsible for a lot of brazen and lovely practices, as well as just plain unfinished and unpolished content.

Presumably in a society where everyone's basic needs are met, you would get games that are not loaded with gacha and/or grind, while still having some external or internal pressure to drive things towards release.

not for another two generations at least, to give time for game developers to mature whose tastes and expectations were not conditioned from birth by capitalist relations of production. like moses we will only glimpse the promised land of grind-free erotic jrpgs from afar

Leal
Oct 2, 2009

If you LP what I LP
And if you work retail like I work retail
You would also scream like I scream


Eugene V. Dubstep posted:

grind-free erotic

What is this poo poo

Yardbomb
Jul 11, 2011

What's with the eh... bretonnian dance, sir?



Pharohman777 posted:

The pressures of outside funding/publishers are kinda needed

They 100% are not

Hungry
Jul 14, 2006



Pharohman777 posted:

it seems utterly naive to assume 'people are willing to volunteer without compensation for difficult things like programming games if all needs are met'.

People literally do this all the loving time! People create art for no compensation constantly, in their private lives, as hobbies, as passion projects. This isn't some bizarre esoteric concept. You only have to poke around on the internet for five minutes to find proof of this, in any artistic medium you choose.

FoldableHuman
Mar 26, 2017

I WILL CRY IRL TEARS IF YOU DON'T LISTEN TO THE PODCAST OF A SEX PEST

Pharohman777 posted:

The pressures of outside funding/publishers are kinda needed to ensure that the devs don't feature creep stuff to oblivion, see star citizen. Management becomes very important in large projects as well to coordinate everything, and it seems utterly naive to assume 'people are willing to volunteer without compensation for difficult things like programming games if all needs are met'.

Counterpoint: a massive list of extremely good games made by small to medium teams of people without the pressures of a publisher or the feature creep of Star Citizen.

Like, this shouldn't need to be said, but it's entirely possible for a team, or even an individual, to have good discipline and effective managerial oversight without giving that power to a third party.

Feature creep isn't an inevitability, it's a failure of leadership. The problem with Star Citizen isn't that they don't have a publisher to keep them under reign, it's that Robert Space Industry has zero self-restraint.

Argas
Jan 13, 2008
SRW Fanatic






I feel like looking at Star Citizen and thinking the problem is feature creep and not naked greed is missing the point completely too.

Yardbomb
Jul 11, 2011

What's with the eh... bretonnian dance, sir?



Yeah like, at no point was SC a totally viable project that was ever coming out as promised, it's always been a giant scam.

Terrible Opinions
Oct 17, 2013





Pharohman777 posted:

The pressures of outside funding/publishers are kinda needed to ensure that the devs don't feature creep stuff to oblivion, see star citizen. Management becomes very important in large projects as well to coordinate everything, and it seems utterly naive to assume 'people are willing to volunteer without compensation for difficult things like programming games if all needs are met'.
Without the benevolent oversight of the company town and restrictions of company script the degenerate Irishmen would drink himself to death. The game dev is much the same.

MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Every species can smell its own extinction.




Toby Fox made Undertale while he living in Andrew Hussie's basement.

Parakeet vs. Phone
Nov 6, 2009


And again, any move away from capitalism isn't necessarily a move toward total anarchy. Society wouldn't devolve to a No Gods No Masters screaming match. There would still be project managers watching poo poo and applying whatever form of pressure still exists (co-op or direct oversight). It'd just be treated as an actual skill and not a magic ticket that makes you a petty lord in the rest of society.

Star Citizen is a result of a cult of personality and should basically be treated as such. Even down to the outside observers watching in horror as the followers throw more and more of their own money into the fire. If you want to really dig into it, capitalism technically threw extra tires on the inferno since a big part of the feature creep was from their desperation to bleed more money off of their dedicated fans. When all you're selling is spaceship models, you're going to keep coming up with new types of ships. That's how you get a proposal for a cruise ship that needs real-life flight attendants in a loving MMO.

Ghostlight
Sep 25, 2009

maybe for one second you can pause; try to step into another person's perspective, and understand that a watermelon is cursing me





please do not insult the gameplay purity that is mixing and serving a hairy roberts cocktail to cattle class.

Parakeet vs. Phone
Nov 6, 2009


In fairness, I actually probably would be all over a regular-rear end MMO that let me play Cook, Serve Delicious in the middle of it and just ignore everything else.

Eugene V. Dubstep
Oct 4, 2013



Leal posted:

What is this poo poo

get your mind out of the gutter

egg tats
Apr 3, 2010


up until some point 10-15 years old almost no indie games in the west were monitized in any way(obviously some were). the only reason to make them was to create and you couldn't click 3 links without stumbling on some free indie game. I mean, gently caress, newgrounds was massive and that was games, animation, music, art, all free, without afaik a cent going to the creators

people want to make art. the fact that anyone bothers working for marvel and DC are proof of that.

Alaois
Feb 7, 2012

D U S T M A N


Solitair
Feb 18, 2014

This statement is a lie!


Even Matt McMuscles is getting in on the action.

DoubleCakes
Jan 14, 2015



MonsieurChoc posted:

Toby Fox made Undertale while he living in Andrew Hussie's basement.

Socialism is everyone living in Andrew Hussie's basement

CYBEReris
Dec 15, 2007



DoubleCakes posted:

Socialism is everyone living in Andrew Hussie's basement

just don't look in the buckets

DEEP STATE PLOT
Aug 13, 2008

Yes...Ha ha ha...YES!




Mr.Radar posted:

And Doug DeMuro has a new non-car review, this time of a hotel room only for the guillotine-worthy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwK8olyI0zc

why on earth would you ever watch or post doug demuro

Goa Tse-tung
Feb 11, 2008

;3



Yams Fan


misleading

this slide was about comicbook writers and their relationship to the people drawing, inking and lettering

Alaois
Feb 7, 2012

D U S T M A N


i know that smart guy it was just funnily relevant to the discussion out of context

RareAcumen
Dec 28, 2012






Endorph posted:

That's unfortunate.

DEEP STATE PLOT posted:

why on earth would you ever watch or post doug demuro

Is there a chance either of you want to expand on these leading posts?

DEEP STATE PLOT
Aug 13, 2008

Yes...Ha ha ha...YES!




RareAcumen posted:

Is there a chance either of you want to expand on these leading posts?

demuro is just about the most unlikeable fuckin dude i have ever seen on youtube

i dunno that he's a chud or anything, i just fuckin hate his videos and legit don't understand how anyone can even remotely tolerate him. i watched a few of his videos on extremely rare and/or cool cars and had to mute them and just watch him show the cars off because his personality made me want to stick my fist through the computer screen.

to be fair, most people on automotive youtube are also just really awful to watch, there's basically regular car reviews and then everyone else is various shades of garbage, and even rcr are problematic at times.

Laterite
Mar 14, 2007

It's Gutfest '89

Grimey Drawer

DEEP STATE PLOT posted:

even rcr are problematic at times.

what

Kamrat
Nov 27, 2012

Thanks for playing Alone in the dark 2.

Now please fuck off


Mr.Radar posted:

And Doug DeMuro has a new non-car review, this time of a hotel room only for the guillotine-worthy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwK8olyI0zc

This Hotel room depresses me on several levels.

The view is horrible, it looks like it's overlooking an industrial area so I don't understand why this guy says it's got an amazing view, maybe it looks pretty at night or something. The interior has some bad design choices with boring grays spotted with random crap. The artist they hired to create art for the room seems like he just phoned it in.

Even if I had the money to rent this room I wouldn't, normal hotel rooms have more personality than this.

But Las Vegas is a horrible/depressing place so I guess it fits right in.

TelevisedInsanity
Dec 19, 2008

"You'll never know if you can fly unless you take the risk of falling."


big fan of the funko pop economy we created, where intellectual property is the only commodity to be bought and sold and traded until, eventually, a ready player one reality is created where one single monopoly owns not just "your childhood" but the childhood of your grandkids as well.

someone has to buy these VR Troopers Funkos, it was a thing from the 90s! what about the animorphs? can be break out the mid 2000s nostalgia for adrian brody yet?

also people are aware there are movies in more "socialist" countries, right? like the united states isn't the only country that makes popular culture?

Anyway, vote bernie sanders, go to your public library to watch a movie, most youtube personalities act like they are still in high school because they haven't grown up outside of the clique-and-drama culture that came from that educational system.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTCFhKqjZms

anyway, there is a new defunctland, and i am excited!

DEEP STATE PLOT
Aug 13, 2008

Yes...Ha ha ha...YES!





mr. regular has taken potshits at ~sjws~ more than once and the way roman handled liz carmichael being transgender in the rcr stories video about the dale was...questionable.

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010

ASK ME ABOUT MY LOVE OF EUGENICS AND MARIO 3



College Slice

The USSR being willing to lend tens of thousands of troops to act as extras in big battle scenes was always kind of awesome.

Tesseraction
Apr 5, 2009


From what I recall the US military puts a poo poo-ton of money into the film industry. Pop Culture Detective did a video on it. Hang on, is he cancelled?

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010

ASK ME ABOUT MY LOVE OF EUGENICS AND MARIO 3



College Slice

I think Stargate: SG1 is probably on the cool end of that, though for some people your mileage will vary.

I'm kinda annoyed though that in SG1 they didn't go all the way and put AFV's through the gate. Especially Russian SPAA's the moment they joined the program and got a really nice multinational force going. Atlantis tried a little but side from different people wearing different flags it was all US military which was disappointing.

I wanna see a TV series where you got Chinese/US/Russian stuff fighting aliens/angels/demons side by side.

Trojan Kaiju
Feb 13, 2012




Tesseraction posted:

From what I recall the US military puts a poo poo-ton of money into the film industry. Pop Culture Detective did a video on it. Hang on, is he cancelled?

He has real dumb twitter takes, some of which got extended to Feminist Fequency when it was pretty clear he was in charge of their twitter account. That's about the long and short of it that I've seen. I have enjoyed a couple of his videos but he's got a very narrow view in certain areas, like in his immediate judgment of any show of violence.

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Archer666
Dec 27, 2008



Tesseraction posted:

From what I recall the US military puts a poo poo-ton of money into the film industry. Pop Culture Detective did a video on it. Hang on, is he cancelled?

They do it to force the studios to portray them in a good light or risk losing that funding. Was very blatant in the 2nd Jack Reacher movie. In the novel, the bad guy was some US generals, in the movie its some random PMC guy they pull out of their rear end 10 minutes before the credits roll.

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