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Inspector Gesicht
Oct 26, 2012

500 Zeus a body.




Ghostlight posted:

i think that one's more on him publicly opining that almost every day he wished that nazis hadn't tainted the "science" of eugenics.

If Eugenics was a thing would Bob think he himself would be an exception?

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Ash Crimson
Apr 4, 2010


Kim Justice posted:

I don't know who this person is

I did a lot of Contra defending (including here!) but Buck Angel was my personal last straw, combined with a general loss of interest in her work. Like, her subject matter narrowed and everything became very navel gazing and about nothing but trans. As I've often said I tend to lose interest when an online trans person talks about nothing but being trans. It's one-dimensional and dull as all bloody hell. Both on the Internet and in real life.

Like, hopefully one eventually reaches a stage where they don't have to pretend that Against Me! is worth listening to.

EDIT: Also the videos are now too loving long. Honestly this overt length thing just needs to be stopped generally, and that's coming from me. I now get recommended four and a half hour long essay videos on the subject of loving Nikocado Avocado. We've gone too far.

Nikocado mukbangs are crazy it's like watching a man degenerate in real time

Mukbangs! Mukbang

Roth
Jul 9, 2016



Inspector Gesicht posted:

If Eugenics was a thing would Bob think he himself would be an exception?

Bob thinks he's a genius so yes

Crocobile
Dec 2, 2006


Kim Justice posted:

I don't know who this person is

I did a lot of Contra defending (including here!) but Buck Angel was my personal last straw, combined with a general loss of interest in her work. Like, her subject matter narrowed and everything became very navel gazing and about nothing but trans. As I've often said I tend to lose interest when an online trans person talks about nothing but being trans. It's one-dimensional and dull as all bloody hell. Both on the Internet and in real life.

It’s funny, I don’t use Twitter thus had no idea about any Contrapoints controversies until she made that video about being ‘cancelled.’ I actually found this thread because her call outs of rando accounts making milk-toast criticisms who didn’t even tag her in the first place left a real bad taste in my mouth.

My first video of hers was the Incel one where she states that she “used” to namesearch herself for criticisms as a form of self-harm. The cancelled video and her more recent videos have been really explicitly about her personal journey and head-space, which has made apparent how much that was always part of her videos. I can’t stand the ones that are conversations with herself as multiple characters because they just feel SO navel gazey. Like the video is more a way for her to process her thoughts then something meant for other people to watch.

That being said, I liked the Opulence video though it meandered too much. Tbh my main memory of it was the dead mall footage and the commentary on vampires at the end...

Ariong
Jun 25, 2012





Inspector Gesicht posted:

If Eugenics was a thing would Bob think he himself would be an exception?

Everyone who thinks eugenics has any merit thinks they would be an exception.

Yardbomb
Jul 11, 2011

What's with the eh... bretonnian dance, sir?



Ariong posted:

Everyone who thinks eugenics has any merit thinks they would be an exception.

Getting holocaust/pogrom'd too, most of the authoritarian loving shitheels we've got 100% would've been rounding out a mass grave.

Nuns with Guns
Jul 23, 2010

....?


Kunster posted:

Given he's also very, very vocal about said exploitative work culture in japanese comics and "work ethic" of grinding people to a bone, nope!

Is he? Cool, I haven't seen it but I'll believe you. I usually avoid that side of twitter just for emotional-stability's sake.

All I remember was the segment from the "Shut the gently caress Up, Marvel" piece he did a few years back about One Piece, which looking back now did point out its sales figures but brought up OP specifically as being more accessible than Marvel comics due to be a coherent series of volume orders. Which... I mean okay it's slightly more coherent than you get with modern cape comics runs unless you know how to narrow your search down to specific creative teams, but honestly the sheer size of One Piece is its own accessibility barrier, even as of a few years ago, and I don't know if I'd have pointed to the clear volume order as a great reason for its success.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

I may not be as cute as the other girls, but I'm the best at arm wrestling!


I mean at least with One Piece if someone says 'get into one piece' you can just get volume 1 and go from there

if you want to get into, idk, batman these days its impossible to know where to start i feel like and runs can be canned at the drop of a hat

StratGoatCom
Aug 6, 2019

Our security is guaranteed by being able to melt the eyeballs of any other forum's denizens at 15 minutes notice




Ariong posted:

Everyone who thinks eugenics has any merit thinks they would be an exception.

Except the 8chan founder.

Mr Phillby
Apr 8, 2009

~TRAVIS~

Last time I went into a comic book store I asked 'hey I like batman but I've never read any of the comics, what's a good jumping on point for that?' and I was sold a trade paperback called 'Batman Volume 1'.

The comic started with a character turning up and thanking batman for something that had clearly happened in an earlier storyline, without any explanation or exposition as to who this new guy was or why he was here to be batman's new sidekick. it turns out it was an ongoing series but a year had past since the last reboot so they just started the numbering over.

So yeah actually having clearly labelled volumes is a huge advantage for new readers.

Superhero comics are a nightmare, you could hunt down an entire run of a comic you're interested and have chunks of the story missing because they did a crossover event and killed a character off in another book entirely. I realize there's a difference between a manga from one creative/team versus the convoluted shared universe model DC and Marvel are using but these things are so actively hostile to new readers it's like trying to get into a soap opera that's been running for 40 years except if you try and read summaries of previous stories online to try and get up to speed whoops those stories happened on Earth 3 before THE CONVERGENCE and although this guy has the same name they're actually a completely different character now (but the original version will show up in the next status quo reset event, do try and keep up).

Yardbomb
Jul 11, 2011

What's with the eh... bretonnian dance, sir?



The extreme ease of which you can immediately find multiple good sites via simple searches that host high quality scans of clearly ordered manga does it untold favors in getting people into them.

JordanKai
Aug 19, 2011

Get high and think of me.




Mr Phillby posted:

Last time I went into a comic book store I asked 'hey I like batman but I've never read any of the comics, what's a good jumping on point for that?' and I was sold a trade paperback called 'Batman Volume 1'.

The comic started with a character turning up and thanking batman for something that had clearly happened in an earlier storyline, without any explanation or exposition as to who this new guy was or why he was here to be batman's new sidekick. it turns out it was an ongoing series but a year had past since the last reboot so they just started the numbering over.

So yeah actually having clearly labelled volumes is a huge advantage for new readers.

Superhero comics are a nightmare, you could hunt down an entire run of a comic you're interested and have chunks of the story missing because they did a crossover event and killed a character off in another book entirely. I realize there's a difference between a manga from one creative/team versus the convoluted shared universe model DC and Marvel are using but these things are so actively hostile to new readers it's like trying to get into a soap opera that's been running for 40 years except if you try and read summaries of previous stories online to try and get up to speed whoops those stories happened on Earth 3 before THE CONVERGENCE and although this guy has the same name they're actually a completely different character now (but the original version will show up in the next status quo reset event, do try and keep up).

Crossover event comics are a scourge.

Also, I wish Marvel had stuck with either the labelled season approach (I think that lasted for literally one season, in fact) or had introduced legacy numbering much earlier and stuck with it. I'm deeply invested in comic books and which series continue into what is hard to keep up with even for me.

You'd think Marvel and DC would introduce some kind of digital almanac helping people figure out in what order to buy/read collected editions, but no such luck.

Doctor Spaceman
Jul 6, 2010

"Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."


Mr Phillby posted:

Last time I went into a comic book store I asked 'hey I like batman but I've never read any of the comics, what's a good jumping on point for that?' and I was sold a trade paperback called 'Batman Volume 1'.

The comic started with a character turning up and thanking batman for something that had clearly happened in an earlier storyline, without any explanation or exposition as to who this new guy was or why he was here to be batman's new sidekick. it turns out it was an ongoing series but a year had past since the last reboot so they just started the numbering over.
If it's King's run on Batman then it really is a good jumping on point except for that first story which serves no other purpose in the book except to confuse new readers and be a metatextual changing of the guard thing for old readers.

Doctor Spaceman fucked around with this message at 02:25 on Aug 12, 2020

Nuns with Guns
Jul 23, 2010

....?


Endorph posted:

I mean at least with One Piece if someone says 'get into one piece' you can just get volume 1 and go from there

if you want to get into, idk, batman these days its impossible to know where to start i feel like and runs can be canned at the drop of a hat

Eh, with Batman the runs are normally given to creative teams DC expects to run at least a full story arc, unless something unforeseen happens like a creator having to drop it or be removed. The smaller series or runs on less popular characters do get cut short, yeah, but it's way easier to figure out where to read that because those are series that aren't running under a decades old comic issue label. It's kind of comparable to what can happen to the lower-tier series in Shonen Jump getting axed. The stories may cut off mid-stream or may be given enough time to wrap the current adventure that's happening. Wrapping it up does happen more often now, though, since it's become a basic expectation to have a complete story to package as a trade paperback afterwards.

If you're trying to get into the "current" Batman, most reasonable people would tell you to start either with the beginning of the current creative team's run, or (if it's a long run) then an accessible midpoint start of a recent story arc.

The problem is if you're interested in any of the backstory or lore comic writers like pulling in. Then you have to find a way to access those older comic runs and well, knowing what are the "worthwhile" runs on the major series like Uncanny X-Men, or Detective Comics, or heck even something like the old Constantine series can be pretty bad unless you have someone to tell you which creative teams are worth reading. It's on a combination of problems here:

1. If you're getting recs you have to hope your tastes align with whoever suggested stuff to you. You can find some nice compiled "Reading Order" lists for any major superhero comic series out there, but there's no guarantee of quality (aka a lot of it is dire) or if any of it will properly "catch you up" on current series.

2.The most traditionally accessible option (trade paperback collections) aren't clearly labeled issue-number-by-issue-number since they're usually linked to creative team runs. Within those runs they may or may not be numbered by volume, yay.

3. Linked to 2, trades only became a big thing for every series ever in the past few decades, and they can still go out of print, leaving several more decades of comic backlog inaccessible outside of digging through back floppy issues, prestige collected editions, illicit online scans, or the whims of the publisher to upload to their online subscription service (Marvel's been better about this than DC.)

On the other hand, most of that background doesn't matter. Finding the start of the self-contained arcs can be annoying, but if you know you want to read the three year run of Greg Rucka's Wonder Woman, it's in like six volumes you can read in a day. Finding that starting point is the biggest and most serious problem here. When you're getting into the titanic manga series, most people would tell you to start from the beginning and make your 100-hour journey forward from there over a few weeks. There are jumping-on points at the start of new story One Piece arcs, but you will absolutely lose out a lot more than you would outside of the exceptionally long writer runs on superhero series.

Yardbomb posted:

The extreme ease of which you can immediately find multiple good sites via simple searches that host high quality scans of clearly ordered manga does it untold favors in getting people into them.

This is one of the major problems with Marvel and DC at this point and I do agree with Spacetwinks in that regard that American comics are really loving pricy for the length of story you're buying. Marvel's subscription service is excellent, but DC's been lagging behind. Still, I can't see them going anywhere but more into those services as print media dies, and it's being a frustratingly slow journey adapting to that so far.

Nuns with Guns fucked around with this message at 02:27 on Aug 12, 2020

Roth
Jul 9, 2016



DC and Marvel being large, shared universes is part of the appeal. Plenty of people bounce off of it for various reasons, but there's also plenty of people that love following the universe, learning about decades old stories, and character histories. It doesn't really bother me that a character might refer to a story or event that in another comic that I didn't read, because that's just part of the universe. It's bigger than just the stuff I've chosen to read.

Comparing it to One Piece isn't great, because One Piece is one, linear story as opposed to a collection of stories compiled by hundreds of artists/writers over decades. It's more comparable to something like Star Trek than any shonen manga.

Full disclosure: I think people way overhype the inaccessibility of DC and Marvel comics. I can't remember the last time I read a comic that referred to another story that didn't include information in the narrative explaining what it was they're talking about. Ignoring that though, there's plenty of American comics put out by Image, Boom, IDW, Aftershock, or whoever that function just like One Piece. Just pick up issue 1 and start from there. There's more to comics than just what Marvel and DC put out.

Alaois
Feb 7, 2012

D U S T M A N


if anyone asked me how to get in to batman i would simply point them to a little guy known as Denny O'Neil but that may not be helpful if they want to get in to like, modern Batman comics.

Doctor Spaceman
Jul 6, 2010

"Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."


Alaois posted:

if anyone asked me how to get in to batman i would simply point them to a little guy known as Denny O'Neil but that may not be helpful if they want to get in to like, modern Batman comics.

Relatively helpful given they are reprinting a bunch of his stuff at the moment.

Alaois
Feb 7, 2012

D U S T M A N


manga fans: western comics are absolutely impossible to get in to, they're so dense and impenetrable

also manga fans: god I love JoJo's Bizarre Adventure

Yardbomb
Jul 11, 2011

What's with the eh... bretonnian dance, sir?



JoJo's broken up into distinct and clearly ordered parts though, that seems like a weird example when like, stuff's very regularly referred to as just Part 1-2-3-4-5-6-7 even.

Antifa Turkeesian
Aug 20, 2006




Kim Justice posted:

I don't know who this person is

I did a lot of Contra defending (including here!) but Buck Angel was my personal last straw, combined with a general loss of interest in her work. Like, her subject matter narrowed and everything became very navel gazing and about nothing but trans. As I've often said I tend to lose interest when an online trans person talks about nothing but being trans. It's one-dimensional and dull as all bloody hell. Both on the Internet and in real life.

Like, hopefully one eventually reaches a stage where they don't have to pretend that Against Me! is worth listening to.

EDIT: Also the videos are now too loving long. Honestly this overt length thing just needs to be stopped generally, and that's coming from me. I now get recommended four and a half hour long essay videos on the subject of loving Nikocado Avocado. We've gone too far.

This is my general position as well. I don’t wish her any ill will, but her interests have become very niche and there’s no reason for a video essay to go over an hour—that means it’s either two videos with related but distinct arguments or there’s at least 20 minutes to cut. The cringe video got to the thesis in a tight 20 minutes, but I had to stop after the chris chan part when I realized there were more examples. I guess I take an academic book philosophy with long videos: read the introduction and theory/method chapter and then cut to the conclusion.

I met her once a few years ago at a meetup with a few internet people who were local to my city, before any of the internet pressure-cooker stuff boiled over or the buck angel thing, and my general impression of a single long group conversation is that she’s a genuine and intellectually curious person who wants to follow questions where they lead, even if the answer is unpleasant. No ego and she knew how to contribute constructively without dominating, even though we were all partially there to meet up with her. I’m sorry she’s made some poor choices, but my completely anecdotal and worthless opinion is that she’s just a person who has some problems trying to make videos she thinks people will like.

Nuns with Guns
Jul 23, 2010

....?


I still don't understand how King Crimson works

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

I may not be as cute as the other girls, but I'm the best at arm wrestling!


Alaois posted:

manga fans: western comics are absolutely impossible to get in to, they're so dense and impenetrable

also manga fans: god I love JoJo's Bizarre Adventure
jojos is isnanely easy to get into though. you read it. thats easy.

Max Wilco
Jan 22, 2012

I'm just trying to go through life without looking stupid.

It's not working out too well...

Kamrat posted:

I've been getting more interested in miniatures as of late thanks to that video posted earlier in this thread so I found some new channels that might interest some of you as well.

Goobertown hobbies is truly the Bob Ross of miniatures, if you're only gonna watch one of these channels make sure it's this, it's wonderful.

Miscast paints and molds miniature stuff, he's working on some demon army right now with in which he takes a lot of creative freedom.

Midwinter minis. This couple does terrain building and paints miniatures.

Scratch Bashing, a guy who uses junk to build terrain and vehicles, in his latest video he builds a forest monster out of sticks and stones, it's quite amazing.

Dark Matter Workshop creates terrain in a methodical fashion, like this channel quite a bit.

Eric's Hobby Workshop is also a terrain channel, his creation of medieval houses is some of his best work.

Got some more mini painting channels (and related channels) to add to this list:

Pete the Wargamer does painting tutorials, but he also does videos on how to kitbash/convert models if you're looking to make something specific to a particular faction.

Black Magic Craft I think got mentioned in that Cosmo video, but I'm posting a link anyway, since he's got a lot of pointers on doing terrain, thought it's aimed more towards D&D than Warhammer (still applicable for WHFB, and I think he's starting to get into 40K stuff.)

Dana Howl is a channel I've not really gotten around to watching yet, but she has some videos on techniques like under-painting and color glazing.

Darren Latham stopped making videos about 5 months ago (I think there was some conflict because he's hired on as a 'Eavy Metal painter), but his videos are worth checking out if you want to see some extremely detailed models (the one he does painting the face for the Sister of Battle blows my mind).

Next Level Painting does a lot of tutorials with airbrushing, and if you're like me, and you just bought an airbrush, it's worth checking out if you want to see some of the cool things you can do with an airbrush.

OrcPainterNerd is a channel I really like. He does tutorials like everyone else, but his voice is pretty soothing, and the video are scored with soft piano or ambient music, which makes them pretty relaxing to watch.

There's a ton of mini and scale-modeling channels out there.

Nuns with Guns posted:

I still don't understand how King Crimson works

Ask Robert Fripp.

Yardbomb
Jul 11, 2011

What's with the eh... bretonnian dance, sir?



Nuns with Guns posted:

I still don't understand how King Crimson works

The really bad translation that 5 was left with for a long time made it way more complicated than it actually is.

Diavolo says go and the next 10 seconds are put in King Crimson's deal, only Diavolo stays aware and able to deliberately act in those 10 seconds, he does whatever he's doing, that frame of time ends and everyone else snaps out of it, now to the effects of what happened without 'getting' the cause.

IronicDongz
Aug 18, 2013

there he goes

it's also not that long, and the different parts are mostly self contained so it's fine to jump in partway through

Alaois
Feb 7, 2012

D U S T M A N


Endorph posted:

jojos is isnanely easy to get into though. you read it. thats easy.

not from a "where to start" aspect. from a "literally everything else about it" aspect

Yardbomb
Jul 11, 2011

What's with the eh... bretonnian dance, sir?



Alaois posted:

not from a "where to start" aspect. from a "literally everything else about it" aspect

I mean yeah, if you're just getting references and memes with no context of your own or given then you're usually not gonna understand something, that's not very unique to JoJo.

Neo_Crimson
Aug 15, 2011

"Is that your final dandy?"

Nuns with Guns posted:

I still don't understand how King Crimson works

it's the skip button on your dvd player

KaosMachina
Oct 9, 2012

There's nothing special about me.

Nuns with Guns posted:

I still don't understand how King Crimson works

lag spike packet loss with reality

Yardbomb
Jul 11, 2011

What's with the eh... bretonnian dance, sir?



IronicDongz posted:

it's also not that long, and the different parts are mostly self contained so it's fine to jump in partway through

1-3 have the overarching deal of setting up the Joestar bloodline with/and Dio, mainly 1 and 3 really so are important enough to probably keep together, but 4-7 can definitely stand well enough on their own if you wanted. Like you won't get the "Oh man it's him/that" of certain moments, but they're still individual character stories mostly divorced from one another, life in Morioh-cho with Josuke and co, a mafia betrayal storyline with Giorno, the kid of an earlier protagonist doing their own deal with Jolyne, 7 is it's own can of worms but it's the most standalone-worthy of all of them and not getting those callback moments is kind of on you for consciously skipping parts so that's understood anyway.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

I may not be as cute as the other girls, but I'm the best at arm wrestling!


Alaois posted:

not from a "where to start" aspect. from a "literally everything else about it" aspect
jojos is really easy to understand though. like the powers are insane and there's lots of weird lines but the plots themselves are absurdly simple. 'we have to beat up a vampire.' 'we have to beat up nazis (and ancient aztec gods)' 'we have to go to egypt to stop jotaro's mom from dying.' 'we have to stop a serial killer.' 'we have to stop an evil gangster.' 'we have to bust out of jail (and stop an evil guy from destroying the world.' 'we have to win a horse race (and stop an evil president)'

Roth
Jul 9, 2016





Jojo is good

Augus
Mar 9, 2015

BORN TO DIE
WORLD IS A FUCK
Kill Em All 2010
I am trash mon
410,757,864,530 DEAD COPS


the way king crimson works is by being an abstraction of the villain's drive to get what he wants without any regard for how he gets it.

Alaois
Feb 7, 2012

D U S T M A N


and my point is that western comics are also very easy to understand and straightforward once you're actually immersed in them even the big shared universes and acting like ohhhhh its so hard i don't get it This Is A Problem With The Medium

IronicDongz
Aug 18, 2013

there he goes

Yardbomb posted:

The really bad translation that 5 was left with for a long time made it way more complicated than it actually is.

Diavolo says go and the next 10 seconds are put in King Crimson's deal, only Diavolo stays aware and able to deliberately act in those 10 seconds, he does whatever he's doing, that frame of time ends and everyone else snaps out of it, now to the effects of what happened without 'getting' the cause.
except it does other things too and is very inconsistent.

the requiem stuff is still probably more confusing tho

Alaois posted:

and my point is that western comics are also very easy to understand and straightforward once you're actually immersed in them even the big shared universes and acting like ohhhhh its so hard i don't get it This Is A Problem With The Medium
the difference is that with western comics the confusion lies in what you're supposed to buy in the first place, unlike manga where you just start from issue 1, and jjba being weird is basically half the appeal

Roth
Jul 9, 2016



IronicDongz posted:

the difference is that with western comics the confusion lies in what you're supposed to buy in the first place, unlike manga where you just start from issue 1, and jjba being weird is basically half the appeal

I mean, you can just read non-Marvel/DC books if big shared universes aren't your thing. It works the same way as manga.

Alaois
Feb 7, 2012

D U S T M A N


it's just impossible to ever know where to start reading Love & Rockets.

Augus
Mar 9, 2015

BORN TO DIE
WORLD IS A FUCK
Kill Em All 2010
I am trash mon
410,757,864,530 DEAD COPS


Alaois posted:

and my point is that western comics are also very easy to understand and straightforward once you're actually immersed in them even the big shared universes and acting like ohhhhh its so hard i don't get it This Is A Problem With The Medium

but they aren't
not even the people who are immersed in those big shared universes think they are
if you follow the arc of even one single character through the history of marvel or dc comics you will inevitably watch them get pulled back and forth in multiple wildly different directions as they are bounced between different artists and writers with different visions of who the character is and where they should go, which is why major western comics are so infamous for their killing and then reviving of characters.

despite the length of one piece, there's never any question of who Luffy is. there is no 52-issue run of one piece where the current author of the manga was a neo-nazi and Luffy suddenly started acting like the punisher.

Augus fucked around with this message at 03:42 on Aug 12, 2020

Roth
Jul 9, 2016



Actually, Thor and Daredevil are almost nothing but high quality comics for 50 years.

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Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

I may not be as cute as the other girls, but I'm the best at arm wrestling!


Alaois posted:

and my point is that western comics are also very easy to understand and straightforward once you're actually immersed in them even the big shared universes and acting like ohhhhh its so hard i don't get it This Is A Problem With The Medium
i literally do not know where to start with a lot of comic books and when i ask i get a bunch of different answers that are obviously not self-contained stories. if you ask where to start with jojo's you get told volume 1. it is linear.

furthermore, jojo's is one work, by one person, that is consistent within itself. this is not true of basically any superhero comic.

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