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sexpig by night
Sep 8, 2011



Augus posted:

the way king crimson works is by being an abstraction of the villain's drive to get what he wants without any regard for how he gets it.

this is really what people need to get in their heads about stands. They have power and 'rules' on paper and all but at the end of the day they're abstractions of the user's core personality and/or desires. Stands break the rules all the time because the rules aren't supposed to actually matter that much.

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Alaois
Feb 7, 2012

D U S T M A N


Mr Phillby posted:

That Batman comic I read was the one with a new superhero called Gotham came to Gotham and he was really powerful but then he got a himself a tragic backstory and went nuts. I think his sister talked him down and they were just some rich kids that had bought super powers somehow?

It was also in that very modern 'decompressed' style where everything takes ages to happen but it also felt like it was skipping over important bits of the plot.

Like there was a page with batman doing stuff on different days in different weather and it was because of some sort of... seasonal weather bomb? Then he had to dive into a lake to disarm it but he did it on friday when it was set to winter I guess? And alfred was all like 'no you'll die' but batman didn't die because he doesn't need to breathe. All the while I was just going, who set this and why?

If thats considered a good jumping on point I guess I don't want to jump on afterall sorry.

I do read other western stuff like Saga seems good a couple of volumes in. Also Bone is a very good self contained story that I have in an enormous single volume release.

Alaois posted:

Tom King is an aberration and cannot be excused

though ironically he also wrote that Vision comic you praised

JordanKai
Aug 19, 2011

Get high and think of me.




Alaois posted:

its such a specific occurrence I'm sure they have plenty of examples they can provide of it happening over and over and over again

The funniest instance of this to me is Dark Avengers. The series was in the middle of its own storyline before getting caught up in the Siege crossover event. Mind you, the series itself did not tie in to Siege, but its characters were involved in it. So from one issue to the next, the Dark Avengers went from doing their own thing to being defeated, arrested, and the series ending.

Dark Avengers was one of Marvel's biggest series at the time, the most central to the overal storyline that was ongoing, and written by Marvel's biggest name writer. And still it got robbed of a decently paced ending by the then-ongoing crossover event comic.

Roth
Jul 9, 2016




I think the problem is that the guy on the comic shop probably recommended it on the basis of "Where do I start with current Batman?" because Tom King's run was the current run at the time.

James Tynion IV's Detective Comics is a far more enjoyable read from the same period.

Archer666
Dec 27, 2008



People saying Saga is good is the reason I'm convinced comic books aren't for me aside from weird Grant Morrison poo poo or obscure poo poo that nobody's ever heard of.

Alaois
Feb 7, 2012

D U S T M A N


Archer666 posted:

People saying Saga is good is the reason I'm convinced comic books aren't for me aside from weird Grant Morrison poo poo or obscure poo poo that nobody's ever heard of.

its okay

i hate Saga too, we can form a club

Roth
Jul 9, 2016




I liked Saga for a while, but there was a point where it felt like it was just trying to be an HBO show with gratuitous sex scenes and nudity.

JordanKai
Aug 19, 2011

Get high and think of me.




I bounced off of Saga when it used a two-page spread to show the reader a dragon giving himself a blowjob.

I was already getting tired of the series long before that, though.

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017



I read Saga and mostly just wished I was getting out of it what a lot of people who were calling it the best comic ever saw in it. And I even enjoy BKV's work on the whole.

Katt
Nov 14, 2017



What's the deal with Shaun King?

I've followed in him twitter for a while and he's in general been okay but I heard he's done some questionable stuff.

Nuns with Guns
Jul 23, 2010

....?


Every Tom King comic makes me think of the "I'm Sad" Goblins parody comic, but distended out across dozens of overblown comic pages, half of which are 3x3 grids because he likes referencing that Watchmen layout a ton.

Katt posted:

What's the deal with Shaun King?

I've followed in him twitter for a while and he's in general been okay but I heard he's done some questionable stuff.

Shaun King is like one of those old DeviantArt or LiveJournal personalities who would ask for lots of donations on stuff but it's not clear where the money goes...

Kamrat
Nov 27, 2012

Thanks for playing Alone in the dark 2.

Now please fuck off


Edit: Wrong thread

Kamrat fucked around with this message at 15:28 on Aug 12, 2020

Casey Finnigan
Apr 29, 2009

Dumb ✔
So goddamn crazy ✔


I've never read a full superhero comic in my life and I can't say I have ever developed any kind of interest in doing so. I tried reading Secret War after playing the Spider-Man game and I was unimpressed by the writing and the art was unbelievably ugly.

I've probably read much more manga than comics at this point unless you count the webcomics I used to read (do people still make webcomics like they used to?)

sexpig by night posted:

this is really what people need to get in their heads about stands. They have power and 'rules' on paper and all but at the end of the day they're abstractions of the user's core personality and/or desires. Stands break the rules all the time because the rules aren't supposed to actually matter that much.

Eh, most of the time, the rules for the Stands do make some sense in how they operate because otherwise it's hard to follow what the hell is going on in the fights.

Part 5 was my least favorite part by a wide margin. Part of that comes down to Diavolo being lame, it really did feel way too much like "eh fuckin whatever he's just a really bad guy, and his power is that he wins every fight."

The ending battle of Part 5 is so bad. The villain has an overpowered ability that's hard to understand, so the hero defeats him by getting an even more overpowered ability that's impossible to understand and consigns him to a nearly incomprehensible fate.

Plus Giorno himself has hardly got a personality at all.

Casey Finnigan fucked around with this message at 15:32 on Aug 12, 2020

Groovelord Neato
Dec 6, 2014




How come America doesn't really have the equivalent of mangaka.

Flying Zamboni
May 7, 2007

but, uh... well, there it is


Rob Liefeld and Todd McFarland are the premier western superhero comic mangaka. I take no pleasure in reporting this.

Hungry
Jul 14, 2006



Groovelord Neato posted:

How come America doesn't really have the equivalent of mangaka.

Because of different material conditions in two very different industries giving rise to completely different pipelines for talent.

Srice
Sep 11, 2011



Groovelord Neato posted:

How come America doesn't really have the equivalent of mangaka.

Depends on what that specifically entails, I'd say? I guess the first example that'd come to my mind would be Will Eisner, if that would count.

Groovelord Neato
Dec 6, 2014




Flying Zamboni posted:

Rob Liefeld and Todd McFarland are the premier western superhero comic mangaka. I take no pleasure in reporting this.

lol it's true.

Nuns with Guns
Jul 23, 2010

....?


Groovelord Neato posted:

How come America doesn't really have the equivalent of mangaka.

Do you man like a specific one-word term that's equivalent to "mangaka" rather than "comic creator/writer/artist" etc. or like are you asking why America doesn't have creator owned or driven stories? Because for option #1 I guess there was never a need for a specific single word since traditionally the comic making duties in American comics are split between writers and artists (with other fragmentation of art duties like inkers, colorists, letterers, etc.)

For option #2, there's plenty of American comic writers who are creating comics that are their own original properties with standalone ongoing stories. Some within Marvel and DC, some at places like Dark Horse or Image or even smaller indie outlets, and a ton are doing webcomics on their own online now, too. Most of those indie creators are doing all the art and writing duties themselves, or with some support from an editor, artist, or colorist at most.

Lumbermouth
Mar 6, 2008

GREG IS BIG NOW



Darwyn Cooke was America's greatest mangaka, RIP.

Augus
Mar 9, 2015

BORN TO DIE
WORLD IS A FUCK
Kill Em All 2010
I am trash mon
410,757,864,530 DEAD COPS


webcomic artists
-reclusive
-incredibly unhealthy work ethics
-work on one single story for over a decade
-find ways to insert their fetishes into their comic no matter how inappropriate to the story it might be
-can't draw boobs but will take every opportunity to draw them anyway
-do both the writing and the artwork even if they only know how to do one of those things at most
-will on regular occasion burn out and start putting out chapters that barely look like first drafts

CONCLUSION: webcomic artists are the american mangaka

Augus fucked around with this message at 15:45 on Aug 12, 2020

Augus
Mar 9, 2015

BORN TO DIE
WORLD IS A FUCK
Kill Em All 2010
I am trash mon
410,757,864,530 DEAD COPS


Katt posted:

What's the deal with Shaun King?

I've followed in him twitter for a while and he's in general been okay but I heard he's done some questionable stuff.

the most recent thing he's getting poo poo for is this

https://twitter.com/QueenInYeIIow/s...565696941719552

(the left tweet is from only a year ago)

Casey Finnigan
Apr 29, 2009

Dumb ✔
So goddamn crazy ✔




Maybe not the most principled person, this Shaun King fella

Antifa Turkeesian
Aug 20, 2006



Broken Cake

When the mighty dollar is your friend, you canít really have any others. Didnít he do a fundraiser for Tamar Rice that the family told him to stop, and his response was to threaten them with a defamation suit for saying that they had nothing to do with it?

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017



Nuns with Guns posted:

Do you man like a specific one-word term that's equivalent to "mangaka" rather than "comic creator/writer/artist" etc. or like are you asking why America doesn't have creator owned or driven stories? Because for option #1 I guess there was never a need for a specific single word since traditionally the comic making duties in American comics are split between writers and artists (with other fragmentation of art duties like inkers, colorists, letterers, etc.)

Thinking about it there's honestly very few NA comic artists who can write as well as they draw (and vice versa). Although sometimes you do have people like that, and they turn out to be Dave Sim.

Alaois
Feb 7, 2012

D U S T M A N


complete evan dorkin erasure and I can't accept that

Antifa Turkeesian
Aug 20, 2006



Broken Cake

I like a nice superhero comic from 1983 where you get a tight 22 pages with a setup, a little soap opera part where Peter canít afford to take Mary Jane on a date, the villainís introduced and they have a fight, we cut to Harry registering for classes at college and hitting on a cute secretary, Peter comes up with a plan to beat the villain, they fight again and now Peter wins, then Peter manages to have his date and maybe thereís a panel or two at the end where next monthís villain is watching him from the shadows. Why does anyone need more than that?

A Sometimes Food
Dec 8, 2010

Relinquish your foolish
delusions of control.





I'm enjoying Immortal Hulk as an entry to comics. HULK STRONGEST THERE IS

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Shitposting 24/7 without regrets. my parents would be proud.


i like mcfarlane because he makes decent action figure/statues on a budget.

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Shitposting 24/7 without regrets. my parents would be proud.


Augus posted:

the most recent thing he's getting poo poo for is this

https://twitter.com/QueenInYeIIow/s...565696941719552

(the left tweet is from only a year ago)

if you can't beat em, join em, if you can't join em, grift em.

Roth
Jul 9, 2016




Antifa Turkeesian posted:

I like a nice superhero comic from 1983 where you get a tight 22 pages with a setup, a little soap opera part where Peter canít afford to take Mary Jane on a date, the villainís introduced and they have a fight, we cut to Harry registering for classes at college and hitting on a cute secretary, Peter comes up with a plan to beat the villain, they fight again and now Peter wins, then Peter manages to have his date and maybe thereís a panel or two at the end where next monthís villain is watching him from the shadows. Why does anyone need more than that?

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017



Admittedly if I wanted somebody to get into what I think of the Avengers I would show them the first season of Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes.

achillesforever6
Apr 23, 2012

psst you wanna do a communism?


Katt posted:

What's the deal with Shaun King?

I've followed in him twitter for a while and he's in general been okay but I heard he's done some questionable stuff.
He's a grifter like a bunch of people who present themselves as left until they get a good gig in an NGO or book deal


I know its clichť but superhero comics really are like the new Greek Mythology in that there is no real continuity and different authors have different stories or takes on the character

JustaDamnFool
Mar 2, 2019


Antifa Turkeesian posted:

I like a nice superhero comic from 1983 where you get a tight 22 pages with a setup, a little soap opera part where Peter canít afford to take Mary Jane on a date, the villainís introduced and they have a fight, we cut to Harry registering for classes at college and hitting on a cute secretary, Peter comes up with a plan to beat the villain, they fight again and now Peter wins, then Peter manages to have his date and maybe thereís a panel or two at the end where next monthís villain is watching him from the shadows. Why does anyone need more than that?

Your right, Newspaper Spiderman is the best superhero media produced in the last 20 years.

fun hater
May 24, 2009


Dawgstar posted:

Thinking about it there's honestly very few NA comic artists who can write as well as they draw (and vice versa). Although sometimes you do have people like that, and they turn out to be Dave Sim.

there are plenty of non-insane comic makers who both write and draw well. michael kupperman, emily carroll, al columbia, richard sala, abby howard, simon hanselmann, steve purcell, meredith gran. theres a whole world out there!!

Jimbot
Jul 22, 2008



https://twitter.com/OutofVTubers/st...632293732003841

I see Shaun has continued down the vtuber rabbit hole - he retweeted this. Good account, by the way.

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017



fun hater posted:

there are plenty of non-insane comic makers who both write and draw well. michael kupperman, emily carroll, al columbia, richard sala, abby howard, simon hanselmann, steve purcell, meredith gran. theres a whole world out there!!

I did say sometimes. Sim sticks in the craw the most because I devoured Cerebus up until... I dunno, after Melmoth and then the rot set in. It's still hard to think of somebody who can pace a joke like he could.

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012




Dawgstar posted:

Admittedly if I wanted somebody to get into what I think of the Avengers I would show them the first season of Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes.

I did always find it a little weird that they decided to make their Tony Stark both the nicest and the evilest-looking modern incarnation of the character. I mean, does this face say 'mild-mannered nerd' to you?

Augus
Mar 9, 2015

BORN TO DIE
WORLD IS A FUCK
Kill Em All 2010
I am trash mon
410,757,864,530 DEAD COPS


Antifa Turkeesian posted:

I like a nice superhero comic from 1983 where you get a tight 22 pages with a setup, a little soap opera part where Peter canít afford to take Mary Jane on a date, the villainís introduced and they have a fight, we cut to Harry registering for classes at college and hitting on a cute secretary, Peter comes up with a plan to beat the villain, they fight again and now Peter wins, then Peter manages to have his date and maybe thereís a panel or two at the end where next monthís villain is watching him from the shadows. Why does anyone need more than that?

this is why Sam Raimi Spiderman and Spectacular Spiderman are the best adaptations, they perfectly distill that villain of the week formula in a way that suits a different medium

Darth Walrus posted:

I did always find it a little weird that they decided to make their Tony Stark both the nicest and the evilest-looking modern incarnation of the character. I mean, does this face say 'mild-mannered nerd' to you?



this is what tony stark should always look like tbqh

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Neo_Crimson
Aug 15, 2011

"Is that your final dandy?"

Darth Walrus posted:

I did always find it a little weird that they decided to make their Tony Stark both the nicest and the evilest-looking modern incarnation of the character. I mean, does this face say 'mild-mannered nerd' to you?



I thought that was David Xanatos from Gargoyles for a second.

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