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Max Wilco
Jan 22, 2012

I'm just trying to go through life without looking stupid.

It's not working out too well...

fun hater posted:

i dont care about internet personalities anymore. i only care about korean cat videos which present a fanciful narrative in which the cats are my friends

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bW40r-6BWM

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achillesforever6
Apr 23, 2012

psst you wanna do a communism?


Antifa Turkeesian posted:

Anna K is the epitome a fame-chasing hollow woman without conviction or belief. She’s a dumbass mean girl eternally looking for someone to bully. The “cocaine is praxis” meme is about her specifically.


https://twitter.com/whysimonewhy/st...9133699072?s=20
Yeah she is basically a grifter with lovely reactionary views that masks themselves as leftist

achillesforever6 fucked around with this message at 01:10 on Sep 13, 2020

Farm Frenzy
Jan 3, 2007



Endorph posted:

it does but it doesnt change the fact that i feel it. idk im not saying they're bad people for getting dolla dolla bill off youtube and a decently successful youtube channel is a decent amount of work, and any idiot who could do nonbackbreaking labor for okay money would take it, but it doesnt change the fact that like, contrapoints talking about queer oppression when she passes well and makes money and connections specifically off being 'the trans youtuber' feels ludicrously insincere. i dont think thats an unfair criticism or made in bad faith. same with some guy talking about 'your boss' when he makes a living off youtube and doesnt have a secondary job. like, yeah, *my* boss, not yours, dont act like we're in the same boat here.

i have bad news for you about literally everyone who successfully makes content on the internet

ewe2
Jul 1, 2009

TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP

put clinton in prison imo


Lipstick Apathy

Nuebot posted:

There's nothing inherently wrong with it, but I feel like there's just nothing really added to a medium when your entire commentary has to be improv and things like facecams have never been A Thing I've enjoyed because I want to watch the game, not some guy just staring at the screen and mumbling except when he gets a donation, except sometimes maybe he's wearing a silly hat that gets him more donations to read out loud. Plus, you know, the chats. Maybe I'm just bad at twitch but I could never figure out how to get rid of chats and there's nothing that makes a stream less engaging than seeing just an infinite wall of people spamming "poggers" for maximum engagement at all times.

It's me, I'm the old man yelling at clouds.

Twitch is a far worse content monster than cable tv in comparison to youtube or old network tv. You can't have great production values, you have to churn it out, so it's even more deadening. My first introduction to twitch culture was the gamer channel ymfah that honestly looked like a cult at first, but it was this guys day job, 8 to 5 every day, he worked from home, you could hear his family in the background every so often, he had soundboards to acknowledge the gifts showered down upon him from his weirdly rabid fans as he LPed the latest games, you could join the Discord and the Patreon and the Prime, the whole package, all in service of the daily hit. Good show to you sir indeed.

I'm the old man hanging out on the fplus feed while frank west plays bullet witch, the worst game in the universe.

dead gay comedy forums
Oct 21, 2011




Antifa Turkeesian posted:

For some reason, today is the day for og favorite youtube people to push new content after some time away:

Dan does flat Earth:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTfhYyTuT44

for real, Dan rules and also agreed that this is a strong contender for his best one at least

besides, it is incredibly watchable and makes a much better point than harry's measured response videos for instance

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I have special eyes.

Just think of all the cool stuff I can see.


Nuebot posted:

Maybe I'm just bad at twitch but I could never figure out how to get rid of chats and there's nothing that makes a stream less engaging than seeing just an infinite wall of people spamming "poggers" for maximum engagement at all times.

On desktop it takes all of two clicks. But it might not be a thing on mobile, stupidly.

SteelMentor
Oct 15, 2012

TOXIC


dead gay comedy forums posted:

for real, Dan rules and also agreed that this is a strong contender for his best one at least

besides, it is incredibly watchable and makes a much better point than harry's measured response videos for instance

Yeah, I think this is a much more honest look at the entire thing. While Hbomb did an admirable job trying to take them at their word and tease out the core worries and misunderstandings under the batshittery, that only works for a small subsect of conspiracy theorists. At a certain point you really have to cut your losses and accept that they're really not into this kinda stuff because they wanna seek out truth or feel betrayed by our hellworld, they're shitheads who get off on a sense of superiority at best and at worst are just virulent bigots who've learned to mask the less acceptable beliefs.

Companion piece to Dan's video should be the most recent episode of QAnon Anonymous, looking at the guy who organised those Q "Save the Children" rallies last week. Going from failed Hollywood socialite to mediocre soundcloud rapper to dime-a-dozen Instagram influencer to diving head first into conspiracy poo poo in a desperate, constant chase for relevance, his fame in that circle already precarious as the brainwormed turn against him for some innocuous if tacky tattoos.

https://soundcloud.com/qanonanonymo...e-qanon-rallies

Nuns with Guns
Jul 23, 2010

....?


SteelMentor posted:

At a certain point you really have to cut your losses and accept that they're really not into this kinda stuff because they wanna seek out truth or feel betrayed by our hellworld, they're shitheads who get off on a sense of superiority at best and at worst are just virulent bigots who've learned to mask the less acceptable beliefs.

It's not a matter of masking, I think, like Dan says in his video or the full More News video (that I'm pretty sure was linked here before too) implies, it's people who are betrayed by the current state of things, but who are the reason we're in this current state and who have retreated to a world of delusion and Jason Borne LARPing to avoid admitting they've been conned by the most obvious con-artist and pathological liar alive, who never planned to commit to anything he promised his voting base besides virulent bigotry and visceral tantrums. And I think Dan's right that we'll see more escalating acts of violence from people radicalized and blackpilled by this ideology before anyone in power admits this is not something to be coy with just because Trump likes having a rabid fanbase.

Andrast
Apr 21, 2010




John Murdoch posted:

On desktop it takes all of two clicks. But it might not be a thing on mobile, stupidly.

On mobile it takes two touches of the screen

RareAcumen
Dec 28, 2012






Can we just skip to the end of this smug off and just have someone record their phone & desktop on how to hide the chat on twitch already?

Mr.Radar
Nov 5, 2005

You guys aren't going to believe this, but that guy is our games teacher.


https://twitter.com/FoldableHuman/s...974895755833344

Mr.Radar fucked around with this message at 06:41 on Sep 13, 2020

Leal
Oct 2, 2009

If you LP what I LP
And if you work retail like I work retail
You would also scream like I scream


Sankara posted:

I like my internet video people because of their videos. None of them are interesting enough people to carry streaming, it's impossible. I know I'm in the minority here but I fundamentally don't understand how people like streaming, it's so boring. Interesting things can happen, of course, but it's sandwiched between like four hours of nothing. I respect my time too much to do that.

Like, I watch LPs. I'm someone who is into the hobby of someone else playing the video games. I like watching people make funny haha videos about nerd culture, especially those in my youth. But combining the two isn't always chocolate and peanut butter.

Katt posted:

I like my youtubers for their well researched videos on a subject I care about.

Watching them "uhhhhhh" and "ahhhhh" their way through minecraft breaks my loving heart.


Same when I see them being jaded sarcastic assholes on social media when all their video content is centred around defiant optimism in face of institutional oppression.


Also this. Hell, LPers whose edited stuff I like to watch I can't stand watching live. Which is a shame that most of the LP old guard all went to streaming. But woof, when they say "and I reran this part like 10 times and used this recording" in an edited LP, yeah I believe it when watching them play live. Yeesh.

Antifa Turkeesian
Aug 20, 2006



The documentary on netflix about Mark Sargent and his friend/rival flat-Earth person is fascinating, but it’s pretty clear that he’s just a loser slob who latched onto flat Earth because it lets him feel like he understands something and he likes the validation he gets.

Archer666
Dec 27, 2008



ewe2 posted:

Twitch is a far worse content monster than cable tv in comparison to youtube or old network tv. You can't have great production values, you have to churn it out, so it's even more deadening. My first introduction to twitch culture was the gamer channel ymfah that honestly looked like a cult at first, but it was this guys day job, 8 to 5 every day, he worked from home, you could hear his family in the background every so often, he had soundboards to acknowledge the gifts showered down upon him from his weirdly rabid fans as he LPed the latest games, you could join the Discord and the Patreon and the Prime, the whole package, all in service of the daily hit. Good show to you sir indeed.

I'm the old man hanging out on the fplus feed while frank west plays bullet witch, the worst game in the universe.

Being a pro twitch streamer always seemed like the most high-stress poo poo. You need to stream daily and consistently if you want to build a fan base, you need fan interaction to keep it so when you're not streaming you have to tweet/facebook/social media. You got weirdos obsessing over you so you can expect to get doxxed down the line and your private life becoming your public life. And then there's e-drama and how that might impact your income. And Twitch is keeping you on your toes every time because they have notoriously poo poo communication when it comes to (potential) rule violations and the hammer can come down brutally and unexpectedly fast, or not at all.

Basically, poo poo's hosed.

IronicDongz
Aug 18, 2013

there he goes

They have way better communication than youtube.

Hungry
Jul 14, 2006



The only big name twitch streamer I find worth watching is Vinny, partly because he doesn't do any of that donation call out nonsense and is constantly just chatting about interesting stuff.

JordanKai
Aug 19, 2011

Get high and think of me.




With regard to that Anna K tweet: every even moderately capital-P Progressive I've ever met or seen agrees with what the lads in the video are saying and have expressed sentiments to the same effect themselves. I have no idea why that video is supposed to be revalatory or some sort of pushback against leftism.

Also, "oversocialization" is a term coined by the unabomber. Please don't hold anyone who uses that term in high regard, or any kind of regard for that matter.

RareAcumen posted:

Can we just skip to the end of this smug off and just have someone record their phone & desktop on how to hide the chat on twitch already?

Here you go!

https://i.imgur.com/F5UnU5I.mp4

I've never used Twitch on mobile before, so I don't know if the button is in the same position on there.

e: I hope me circling the button with my cursor doesn't come across as condescending, by the way. I just wanted to make sure everyone knew where the white cursor on the white background was.

JordanKai fucked around with this message at 09:44 on Sep 13, 2020

BFC
Aug 17, 2011



JordanKai posted:

Also, "oversocialization" is a term coined by the unabomber. Please don't hold anyone who uses that term in high regard, or any kind of regard for that matter.
Oh so that's why oversocialized felt like a nothing word.

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012




Endorph posted:

it does but it doesnt change the fact that i feel it. idk im not saying they're bad people for getting dolla dolla bill off youtube and a decently successful youtube channel is a decent amount of work, and any idiot who could do nonbackbreaking labor for okay money would take it, but it doesnt change the fact that like, contrapoints talking about queer oppression when she passes well and makes money and connections specifically off being 'the trans youtuber' feels ludicrously insincere. i dont think thats an unfair criticism or made in bad faith. same with some guy talking about 'your boss' when he makes a living off youtube and doesnt have a secondary job. like, yeah, *my* boss, not yours, dont act like we're in the same boat here.

I feel like this maybe hews a little too close to 'people who are successful and visible in talking about poverty, oppression, and suffering are bad because they're successful and visible'. The whole point of a capitalist system is that it rewards success with money, and suppresses the voices of those who it is failing. Delegitimising people simply because they can survive in reasonable mental and physical comfort while providing quality information about this stuff to a wide audience seems very self-defeating.

A better test seems to be how they use their position and platform - what are they actually doing to help other people who haven't been as fortunate in the great, slanted game of capitalism? Are they sharing their platform with people whose insights are valuable, but who aren't able to get visibility and an audience for whatever reason? Are they using their job and their money to build up and support structures that might help the people whose suffering they're paid to talk about?

Ghostlight
Sep 25, 2009

maybe for one second you can pause; try to step into another person's perspective, and understand that a watermelon is cursing me





what if they use their platform to dress up and silence criticism from within their own group

Bug Squash
Mar 18, 2009


YOU CAN STOMP US!

YOU CAN SQUASH US!

BUT YOU'LL NEVER EVER STOP US!


Of all the things to get a bee in your bonnet about, the dress up stuff is always the weirdest.

Ghostlight
Sep 25, 2009

maybe for one second you can pause; try to step into another person's perspective, and understand that a watermelon is cursing me





Kunster
Dec 24, 2006



Something that baffled me about discussion of twitch stuff, for years, was never reading an article or seeing a video done on the 1st person as a twitch broadcaster. It bothers me since some of the discussions around them don't involve them as much as trying to jump in to make some sort of facsmilie, or being very dishonest and mean towards those who do it and watch it.

The closest thing I've seen to it was this very, very, VERY dishonest news special about youtube culture on Sic that just framed it on children, tried to pin everything on youtubes doing bad stuff (and was done by a celeb that tried to pin this as being a worse thing than racism or police brutality), and finished it on a high note, and by high note, I mean "Entirely removing your children from this will deprive them from the modern culture, which will make them less employable in the future and not have the skills for a 2030,2040 job market" which... is one of the bleakest things I've watched on television. Lectured at like, 8 year olds. On a camera leering at them while their parents sternly stare at them waiting to talk about youtube skits where you say "gently caress" or admitting that school can be stressful. As a bad thing.

Regarding the dressing up thing, one of the examples that showcased what bothers me so much about those conversations was the recent increase in people doing VR Chat / Virtual Tuber commissions for avatars to wander around or to be a cute face next to your streams. People immediately jumped to "You'll never be Korone! Why are you prying on your audience's Parasocial Relationship Brain Disease!" rather than ... just wanting to have a cute animal saying your words in lieu of a face cam. Always some sort of ulterior, dark motive being assumed towards anything and everything.

Captain Invictus
Apr 5, 2005

Try reading some manga!

I buy Steam inventories, add me if interested!




Clever Betty

Kunster posted:

Regarding the dressing up thing, one of the examples that showcased what bothers me so much about those conversations was the recent increase in people doing VR Chat / Virtual Tuber commissions for avatars to wander around or to be a cute face next to your streams. People immediately jumped to "You'll never be Korone! Why are you prying on your audience's Parasocial Relationship Brain Disease!" rather than ... just wanting to have a cute animal saying your words in lieu of a face cam. Always some sort of ulterior, dark motive being assumed towards anything and everything.
or alternatively, wanting to stay anonymous but still have a "face" cam. not showing your actual face is a good thing because internet denizens can be extremely horrible, especially stream-watching ones.

Nuebot
Feb 18, 2013

The developer of Brigador is a secret chud, don't give him money

Kunster posted:

Regarding the dressing up thing, one of the examples that showcased what bothers me so much about those conversations was the recent increase in people doing VR Chat / Virtual Tuber commissions for avatars to wander around or to be a cute face next to your streams. People immediately jumped to "You'll never be Korone! Why are you prying on your audience's Parasocial Relationship Brain Disease!" rather than ... just wanting to have a cute animal saying your words in lieu of a face cam. Always some sort of ulterior, dark motive being assumed towards anything and everything.

Because the entire purpose of the face cam is to do the whole parasocial relationship thing. There's always been a thin pretense of "It's so they can see me react, bro" even though most people either don't react because gamers are generally incredibly sedentary and boring to watch, or they're acting in incredibly exaggerated ways designed to entertain people to keep them watching. When you use a virtual avatar you kind of drop that pretense entirely and just have a cute mascot dancing around for people to throw money at. Give Clippy money, Clippy is cute and does the funny expressions every time he gets a kill streak! Like, it is incredibly cynical to assume I guess; but it's become such a pointlessly mandatory part of streaming.

Dias
Feb 20, 2011



I SURVIVED THE AWFUL BLOCK, AGDQ 2018



I mean, that assumes that everyone streaming is doing it as a means to get rich, but parasocial relationships work both ways in the age of streaming. The average streamer with 50, 60 views probably gets more from their own parasocial interactions with the regulars than in terms of money, and being able to put your "face" out there is a way of reinforcing your personality. Sometimes virtual avatars are a safe way of doing that, whether because of personal insecurities, because you're a minority and you'd rather not have to deal with possible abuse, or even out of professional concern.

(a note, I know the term parasocial relationship is all the rage nowadays but it was coined to deal with mass media, I think it's kinda useless when we're dealing with a good chunk of the Twitch userbase)

Also goons continue to be real bad when it comes to creative labor. Y'know that's work, right? Production costs money, editing costs money, equipment costs money, research costs money...

Libluini
May 18, 2012

Did I predict the future?


Grimey Drawer

Leal posted:

I'm seeing this



I don't much care for it but there doesn't seem to be an option to remove it



All I can do is just "submit feedback". How do I get rid of this wikipedia cross promotion

Ironically, when I look at this video, I get the German Wikipedia instead, which starts the same way but then says the exact opposite, listing ancient cultures like Greece who believed in a globe-model. Apparently we Germans aren't strong believers in the Flat Earth Theory.

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017





Captain Invictus posted:

or alternatively, wanting to stay anonymous but still have a "face" cam. not showing your actual face is a good thing because internet denizens can be extremely horrible, especially stream-watching ones.

I always wonder about the streamers, especially the female ones, who just Twitch stream basically their entire day. One got a lot of heat a while back because it came out she was married or at least people thought she was, which meant she could then not be somebody's Internet Girlfriend. And even on regular streams I've seen people get verklempt because the streamer did not pay what the person donating however much paid what they felt was proper due praise (sometimes because it came when the streamer was busy playing a game or whatever).

Groovelord Neato
Dec 6, 2014




Dawgstar posted:

I always wonder about the streamers, especially the female ones, who just Twitch stream basically their entire day. One got a lot of heat a while back because it came out she was married or at least people thought she was, which meant she could then not be somebody's Internet Girlfriend. And even on regular streams I've seen people get verklempt because the streamer did not pay what the person donating however much paid what they felt was proper due praise (sometimes because it came when the streamer was busy playing a game or whatever).

That was Amounrath or whatever who is a super weirdo apart from all that. I think one of her mods had a meltdown at her when it came out she was married. She'd said on stream a bunch of times she was single and it must suck as a lady streamer to have to live that weird lie like a kpop idol.

Kunster
Dec 24, 2006



Nuebot posted:

Because the entire purpose of the face cam is to do the whole parasocial relationship thing. There's always been a thin pretense of "It's so they can see me react, bro" even though most people either don't react because gamers are generally incredibly sedentary and boring to watch, or they're acting in incredibly exaggerated ways designed to entertain people to keep them watching. When you use a virtual avatar you kind of drop that pretense entirely and just have a cute mascot dancing around for people to throw money at. Give Clippy money, Clippy is cute and does the funny expressions every time he gets a kill streak! Like, it is incredibly cynical to assume I guess; but it's become such a pointlessly mandatory part of streaming.

Not necessarily, and that depends on a lot of factors. Someone like Whang does Facecams since he comes part from those daily commentary channels that turned afterwards into something else, and his streams quickly jump between games, director's commentary and old website research, since he'll at times show memorabilia he had laying around and most of his videos shows his face. I wouldn't say that the facecam is there mostly to draw views, but followers do know that it's part of his output. Most of the streamers I follow don't do facecams save if there's either another component other than videogames they talk about, with Kimble Justice's daily ones being an example I can think of. (If I'm wrong here about your streams do tell KJ, I've idled on a few and it's the general idea I got)

You could argue that facecams or sonas can be a boon to the streamer experience, but mostly no one ever gets one with a 100% "Oh yeah that'll excite the hogs that watch me" in mind.

Kunster fucked around with this message at 14:37 on Sep 13, 2020

stillvisions
Oct 15, 2014

I really should have come up with something better before spending five bucks on this.


dead gay comedy forums posted:

for real, Dan rules and also agreed that this is a strong contender for his best one at least

besides, it is incredibly watchable and makes a much better point than harry's measured response videos for instance
Yep, it's a fantastic video.

I know at least a couple friends in RL who've had that video show up in their recommended feed, so I have good news and bad news for him: the good news is he's about to get views, the bad news is he's about to get noticed. I guess this is a test whether this bunch is better or worse than Gamergate.

Mr.Radar
Nov 5, 2005

You guys aren't going to believe this, but that guy is our games teacher.


Tom Nicholas seems to be an up and comer in the left-wing Youtube space, and today he looks at how a BBC news report on migrants crossing the English Channel to seek asylum in the UK demonstrates the media bias towards the rich and powerful that's omnipresent in western media:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-8t0EfLzQo

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012




Dias posted:

I mean, that assumes that everyone streaming is doing it as a means to get rich, but parasocial relationships work both ways in the age of streaming. The average streamer with 50, 60 views probably gets more from their own parasocial interactions with the regulars than in terms of money, and being able to put your "face" out there is a way of reinforcing your personality. Sometimes virtual avatars are a safe way of doing that, whether because of personal insecurities, because you're a minority and you'd rather not have to deal with possible abuse, or even out of professional concern.

(a note, I know the term parasocial relationship is all the rage nowadays but it was coined to deal with mass media, I think it's kinda useless when we're dealing with a good chunk of the Twitch userbase)

Also goons continue to be real bad when it comes to creative labor. Y'know that's work, right? Production costs money, editing costs money, equipment costs money, research costs money...

Yeah, it does seem a little odd to suggest self-employed workers shouldn't get paid for their work. 'You shouldn't earn a liveable amount of money for talking about poverty' seems like a way to narrow the number of people who can talk about it, not broaden it. Compensating people for pointing out where our society fails (and, ideally, what we can do to help fix it) is compensating a valuable social service.

Casey Finnigan
Apr 29, 2009

Dumb ✔
So goddamn crazy ✔


Nuebot posted:

When you use a virtual avatar you kind of drop that pretense entirely and just have a cute mascot dancing around for people to throw money at. Give Clippy money, Clippy is cute and does the funny expressions every time he gets a kill streak! Like, it is incredibly cynical to assume I guess; but it's become such a pointlessly mandatory part of streaming.

It does sound cynical but I think this is a big part of it. I don't know how much stock I put into the "parasocial relationship" stuff but most people do seem to really legitimately want a human connection with their video content (just look how much time this thread spends talking about the lives, thoughts, and opinions of specific video makers).

Vtubers are just the ultimate ideal for this if you're a certain kind of person I guess. Pick whichever character that appeals to you and follow along with them as if they were real. There's benefits on both ends - the viewer doesn't have to worry (as much) that your favorite anime high school girl or cute vampire boy will suddenly say something wildly racist, and the video producer doesn't need to worry (as much) about viewers doxxing their fake cartoon character or drawing weird fanart of real people.

The artifice of it creeps me out though. I can barely watch clips of vtubers without my skin crawling, I truly hate them.

Over in the West though, everyone is always shoving their faces into the camera and screaming for the fans and putting little, idealized drawings of themselves in their thumbnails. It's not that much less artificial and it's also pretty off-putting.

Arist
Feb 13, 2012




Oven Wrangler

I get where that criticism comes from, that you're eventually going to lose a certain kind of credibility as an advocate for marginalized issues once you reach a certain threshold of notoriety and success, but at the same time: you're asking people to be less successful advocates so they can be more credible advocates. It's very strange to me. It's putting the cart before the horse, and basically just that Bors comic. "You claim to care about poor people, yet you aren't starving and destitute! Gotcha!"

Mr.Radar
Nov 5, 2005

You guys aren't going to believe this, but that guy is our games teacher.


https://twitter.com/ThoughtSlime/st...186884428144640

God Youtube is trash.

Babysitter Super Sleuth
Apr 26, 2012

THERE'S FASCISM IN MY GIANT ROBOT ANIMES


Its because we’ve all been trained to tie politics to aesthetics, not material gains, so people will reject figures that violate their image of what a leftist “should be” instead of actually engaging with them in terms of what they accomplish.

Kim Justice
Jan 29, 2007



And you wonder why more and more people are moving to more Twitch or more Patreon exclusivity

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

I may not be as cute as the other girls, but I'm the best at arm wrestling!


Casey Finnigan posted:

The artifice of it creeps me out though. I can barely watch clips of vtubers without my skin crawling, I truly hate them.
Screaming in terror because an anime jpg is in the corner of a gta lets play

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Casey Finnigan
Apr 29, 2009

Dumb ✔
So goddamn crazy ✔


Yeah, a cartoon face that tracks a person's face as they talk in a fake voice is creepy. It's not exactly an uncommon view.

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