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CYBEReris
Dec 15, 2007



yeah I don't think it should really be celebrated before tangible penance is undertaken. very easy to say all of this and then go right back to being a poo poo when the sub numbers start dipping.

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Kim Justice
Jan 29, 2007



business hammocks posted:

It would also be nice if she formally repudiated her earlier politics and named specific names when talking about insincere reactionaries before transitioning into a nonpolitical makeup tips or fast food review channel, although several people have mentioned how those creeps think everyone is playing a role and not named any of them. There must be elements of the youtube politics game that arenít visible from the outside such that even trash gets the code of silence treatment from people who recognize it as trash.

She didn't name names as she didn't want to start any specific drama so dunno if that'll be happening. From her talking it was easy to infer folks like Crowder, Shapiro, McInnes (maybe Dave Rubin too?), lots of speculation in the chat that she didn't exactly leap to deny.

While I don't think she's removed any videos as such, she has made a few videos in the past about her earlier attitudes and hasn't gone straight back to them. Like, she was quite horrible to Riley in particular - like, not only about disagreeing with her politically (which isn't something that's going to change, it should be said) but misgendering her, mocking her looks and so on in the bargain, real nasty poo poo like that which isn't acceptable...it's around a year later, she tearfully apologised and tbf there's not been much llke that since, but I guess she's chosen to own it and admit to being awful as opposed to sweeping that (or say, the Triggering Trannies vids) under the carpet. YouTube probably took care of the monetization on those vids already too.

Junpei Hyde
Mar 15, 2013


Never believe in lies





I mean, I guess it's nice that she's hopefully not gonna be as bad anymore. IDK if much will come of it but eh

FoldableHuman
Mar 26, 2017

I WILL CRY IRL TEARS IF YOU DON'T LISTEN TO THE PODCAST OF A SEX PEST

Feels super great that a whole bunch of us can spend years pointing out that all these YouTube reactionaries are duplicitous hacks with no sincerely held beliefs which is why they're always so "nice" in person, but suddenly that's, like, real once it's coming from the mouth of an independently terrible person.

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Shitposting 24/7 without regrets. my parents would be proud.


FoldableHuman posted:

Feels super great that a whole bunch of us can spend years pointing out that all these YouTube reactionaries are duplicitous hacks with no sincerely held beliefs which is why they're always so "nice" in person, but suddenly that's, like, real once it's coming from the mouth of an independently terrible person.

well that and they are cowards and a decent amount of them weirdly think its like big game.

Roth
Jul 9, 2016


I don't think I could let bygones be bygones enough to really enjoy any of her videos to be honest.

Puppy Time
Mar 1, 2005



Dapper_Swindler posted:

well that and they are cowards and a decent amount of them weirdly think its like big game.

I mean, if you grow up a sheltered white kid, you're taught that it's a big game, because nothing directly affects you or anyone you know personally, so the only thing that ever matters is following The Rules.

AriadneThread
Feb 17, 2011

The Devil sounds like smoke and honey. We cannot move. It is too beautiful.




i'm not going to ever like, like her stuff or even her as a person, but also: i won't turn down someone dropping the alt-right poo poo, that's like, the goal more or less, I thought

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Shitposting 24/7 without regrets. my parents would be proud.


Puppy Time posted:

I mean, if you grow up a sheltered white kid, you're taught that it's a big game, because nothing directly affects you or anyone you know personally, so the only thing that ever matters is following The Rules.

True. I guess i got lucky with my parents and my medical stuff. Because stuff like that teaches you fast that itís not a game.

Ash Crimson
Apr 4, 2010


Until she openly repudiates and apologises for being a useful idiot for bigots, she's still terrible

sexpig by night
Sep 8, 2011
Probation
Can't post for 6 days!


FoldableHuman posted:

Feels super great that a whole bunch of us can spend years pointing out that all these YouTube reactionaries are duplicitous hacks with no sincerely held beliefs which is why they're always so "nice" in person, but suddenly that's, like, real once it's coming from the mouth of an independently terrible person.

Shocked to find these dogs I laid down with had fleas, have you guys heard about this?

*has spent my entire career calling everyone who said the dogs had a flea problem lying muslim loving cucks*

Roth
Jul 9, 2016


AriadneThread posted:

i'm not going to ever like, like her stuff or even her as a person, but also: i won't turn down someone dropping the alt-right poo poo, that's like, the goal more or less, I thought

Yeah, definitely. I just can't ever not disassociate her with picking on a trans woman for not passing as a woman enough.

Puppy Time
Mar 1, 2005



AriadneThread posted:

i'm not going to ever like, like her stuff or even her as a person, but also: i won't turn down someone dropping the alt-right poo poo, that's like, the goal more or less, I thought

Yeah, same. This should absolutely be encouraged. (Though by no means treated as the end of her journey!)

One hopes she'll keep learning and growing.

BigRed0427
Mar 22, 2007

There's no one I'd rather be than me.



It's good that she seeing the light that a lot of these people do not and will not ever respect her because she is trans. But wow there is a lot of bullshit she has done that I don't know I could ever forgive.

A trans woman willingly misgendering another trans person, accusing her for not being actually trans, implying that trans people who are not her and don't 100% pass dont get to call themselves trans, and painting the target on various other trans people for the alt-right. Just...gently caress off forever. She did real damage to the trans community all int he name of getting people like Steven Crowder to like her. That doesn't just go away with sorry.

Inspector Gesicht
Oct 26, 2012

500 Zeus a body.




If the likes of Milo Yianopolosl and Blaire White are part of the LGBT that skews alt-right, who also of the Bi and Lesbian community align with them?

sexpig by night
Sep 8, 2011
Probation
Can't post for 6 days!


"Trans people literally pressure young trans women into sex work"

"The person who I don't like probably isn't even trans"

"Lol look at this person who I think looks too masculine to be a woman"

*is misgendered by all her friends and constantly used as a token with no actual respect to them as a person*

"Folks, shocked to find the alt-right has issues with trans people."


Inspector Gesicht posted:

If the likes of Milo Yianopolosl and Blaire White are part of the LGBT that skews alt-right, who also of the Bi and Lesbian community align with them?

Like 90% of the TERF movement is lovely people who are lesbians who try to claim that trans women are just male rapists who victimize the community.

Kim Justice
Jan 29, 2007



FoldableHuman posted:

Feels super great that a whole bunch of us can spend years pointing out that all these YouTube reactionaries are duplicitous hacks with no sincerely held beliefs which is why they're always so "nice" in person, but suddenly that's, like, real once it's coming from the mouth of an independently terrible person.

This is utterly pointless.

Yardbomb
Jul 11, 2011

What's with the eh... bretonnian dance, sir?



Ash Crimson posted:

Until she openly repudiates and apologises for being a useful idiot for bigots, she's still terrible

BigRed0427 posted:

A trans woman willingly misgendering another trans person, accusing her for not being actually trans, implying that trans people who are not her and don't 100% pass don't get to call themselves trans, and painting the target on various other trans people for the alt-right. Just...gently caress off forever. She did real damage to the trans community all int he name of getting people like Steven Crowder to like her. That doesn't just go away with sorry.

YEPPPPPP, you don't get to go "Woopsy doo I did a little neo-nazi pandering sowwy" and get immediate backpats, that's some phony bullshit until you actually walk back EVERYTHING to do with them, take that shame and learn from it. Name names, disavow them and the people like them, apologize to everyone you hurt, actually repair some of the damage you caused, until then it all just looks like you're angling away from the now increasingly unpopular NEO-NAZIS you were playing good buddy with just recently.

Kim Justice posted:

This is utterly pointless.

Nah, it's an incredibly fair point.

HorseRenoir
Dec 25, 2011





Pillbug

Dapper_Swindler posted:

I loved that game. its not perfect but i thought i nailed east coast small town poo poo well. it shows how people from there(like myself) feel kinda a drift and you see why people who are hopeless and abandoned reach out for any kind a savior even if means loving themselves over in the process.

plus it made this hottake happen. apperently the game is very regressive and trumpian because it doesnt show small town folks as evil and at the end they create a union. which is very trumpist.
https://medium.com/@BootlegGirl/nig...se-34ef70e1ccf0

That hot take goes way overboard but as a black guy I identify with the sentiment. Rural/suburban white America is afforded a level of empathy and visibility that no other group in this country gets to receive, and while I think NITW is benign in a vacuum it's really difficult for me to be enthusiastic over a game about how Rust Belt Whites Have It Bad Too, while being constantly bombarded with "Rust Belt Trump voters feel vaguely sad about Hispanic neighbors being deported by ICE, still bullish on Trump" articles in the newspaper. I'm not even talking about an urban vs. rural divide; rural communities that are majority black/hispanic/native (most of which never even had a "boom" period) generally aren't even acknowledged in these narratives. Most dying towns in America were full of xenophobic sociopaths when times were good, and then when things went bad they could only view solutions to their problems through a xenophobic lens. Tying rural bigotry to economic anxiety feels extremely disingenuous to me especially in this current climate, as if the hatred of outsiders were caused by a lack of unions and not the other way around.

I don't blame Scott Benson for any of that and I get that he's just writing from his own experience with good intentions, I just wish NITW wasn't discussed like it's a universal story of the working class American experience because it's really not.

Sio
Jan 20, 2007

better red than dead


sexpig by night posted:

Like 90% of the TERF movement is lovely people who are lesbians who try to claim that trans women are just male rapists who victimize the community.

Some of them, but I doubt the percentage is quite that high. A lot of the TERFs I've encountered who use this rhetoric are actually straight women who have no interest in lesbians beyond painting them as the supposed victims in order to excuse their own bigotry.

FoldableHuman
Mar 26, 2017

I WILL CRY IRL TEARS IF YOU DON'T LISTEN TO THE PODCAST OF A SEX PEST

Dapper_Swindler posted:

well that and they are cowards and a decent amount of them weirdly think its like big game.

A few of them have literally told me "it's all just a game" and compared it to professional wrestling.

"I say something inflammatory, you say 'that's sexist', we do a spin around the internet, everybody gets paid."

Carl, in particular, thinks he's just playing the WWE version of himself. (Though that still fundamentally aligns him with some really garbage opinions, and he has, inevitably, been radicalizing himself.)

DoctorWhat
Nov 18, 2011

Someone call the Chancellery Guard. Commander Maxil's out of uniform. AGAIN.

FoldableHuman posted:

A few of them have literally told me "it's all just a game" and compared it to professional wrestling.

"I say something inflammatory, you say 'that's sexist', we do a spin around the internet, everybody gets paid."

Carl, in particular, thinks he's just playing the WWE version of himself. (Though that still fundamentally aligns him with some really garbage opinions, and he has, inevitably, been radicalizing himself.)

are they capable of moving past that, do you think?

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Shitposting 24/7 without regrets. my parents would be proud.


HorseRenoir posted:

That hot take goes way overboard but as a black guy I identify with the sentiment. Rural/suburban white America is afforded a level of empathy and visibility that no other group in this country gets to receive, and while I think NITW is benign in a vacuum it's really difficult for me to be enthusiastic over a game about how Rust Belt Whites Have It Bad Too, while being constantly bombarded with "Rust Belt Trump voters feel vaguely sad about Hispanic neighbors being deported by ICE, still bullish on Trump" articles in the newspaper. I'm not even talking about an urban vs. rural divide; rural communities that are majority black/hispanic/native (most of which never even had a "boom" period) generally aren't even acknowledged in these narratives. Most dying towns in America were full of xenophobic sociopaths when times were good, and then when things went bad they could only view solutions to their problems through a xenophobic lens. Tying rural bigotry to economic anxiety feels extremely disingenuous to me especially in this current climate, as if the hatred of outsiders were caused by a lack of unions and not the other way around.

I don't blame Scott Benson for any of that and I get that he's just writing from his own experience with good intentions, I just wish NITW wasn't discussed like it's a universal story of the working class American experience because it's really not.

Excellent points. I can see where youíre coming from. My bias is from living near these places for most of my life, so I try to see some good/hope in those people. People seem to want them to be solely just victims instead of a part of a larger cycle of shittyness. Itís not just economic anxiety itís also racism that pushed by the right to further divide people and keep a loyal rural base that constantly believes their racist and economic bullshit. Keep them blaming others instead of themselves and the people pissing in their mouths. There is a great/anger inducing documentary about a small town right where my friend works. Itís called Shenandoah and itís about some lovely dying town going full racist and defending their lovely football team when some of the players kick a Mexican man to death. Itís really hosed up because you see these people basically going to bad for thei lovely fuckhead players while muttering about how coal will come back and muh football. It never defends these people but itís depressing all around. https://youtu.be/9fIpzBqKLyo it proves your point better then my weird misplaced pity but everyone should watch. Itís a good peak into trumpist brains.

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Shitposting 24/7 without regrets. my parents would be proud.


DoctorWhat posted:

are they capable of moving past that, do you think?

Some maybe. Carlgon wonít, even if he wanted to he is probably to deep in the poo poo.

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Shitposting 24/7 without regrets. my parents would be proud.


FoldableHuman posted:

A few of them have literally told me "it's all just a game" and compared it to professional wrestling.

"I say something inflammatory, you say 'that's sexist', we do a spin around the internet, everybody gets paid."

Carl, in particular, thinks he's just playing the WWE version of himself. (Though that still fundamentally aligns him with some really garbage opinions, and he has, inevitably, been radicalizing himself.)

So they think they are joker. Lol. Least that makes you possibly Batman.

WampaLord
Jan 14, 2010





DoctorWhat posted:

are they capable of moving past that, do you think?

Not as long as the money train is still rolling.

FoldableHuman
Mar 26, 2017

I WILL CRY IRL TEARS IF YOU DON'T LISTEN TO THE PODCAST OF A SEX PEST

DoctorWhat posted:

are they capable of moving past that, do you think?

Like, on an absolute level as people in a conceptual vacuum, sure.

In a practical sense, not as long as performing for an audience of paying chuds is the centre point of their daily life.

nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013

low vis




DoctorWhat posted:

are they capable of moving past that, do you think?

Carl with go to his illiterate grave braying about Anita Sarkeesian, so no.

sexpig by night
Sep 8, 2011
Probation
Can't post for 6 days!


Sio posted:

Some of them, but I doubt the percentage is quite that high. A lot of the TERFs I've encountered who use this rhetoric are actually straight women who have no interest in lesbians beyond painting them as the supposed victims in order to excuse their own bigotry.

you know what that's fair, I was conflating 'using lesbians as a shield' with 'actually being lesbian'. They are a not-minor segment, but yea, painting them as the dominant faction was wrong.

FoldableHuman posted:

A few of them have literally told me "it's all just a game" and compared it to professional wrestling.

"I say something inflammatory, you say 'that's sexist', we do a spin around the internet, everybody gets paid."

Carl, in particular, thinks he's just playing the WWE version of himself. (Though that still fundamentally aligns him with some really garbage opinions, and he has, inevitably, been radicalizing himself.)

God I hate this poo poo so much. These loving idiots get that the whole point of pro wrestling is it's entertainment where you get the catharsis of the 'bad guy' getting body slammed through a flaming table right? Like, there are exactly 0 people turning on Raw to see the promos and then quickly fastforwarding through the actual fight.

Yardbomb
Jul 11, 2011

What's with the eh... bretonnian dance, sir?



WampaLord posted:

Not as long as the money train is still rolling.

Not to say it in a way that paints them sympathetically whatsoever, but this is definitely another thing to think about, a number of these fucks have no actual skills, no training, no likable characteristics aside from being an extremist mouthpiece or useful idiot, so if they ever do decide to learn "Woah I'm literally rallying a bunch of neo-nazis in this the digital age" and wanna take it back or if they don't keep moving further right to please their stormfront, channer, NSM or whatever audience, eventually they're gonna get overtaken and called a secret trans-muslim antifa communialist by the hot new personality pandering to jackbooted thugs. More than a few of them have made their bed and have to lay in it now.

sexpig by night
Sep 8, 2011
Probation
Can't post for 6 days!


My favorite genre of news story is 'right wing reactionary angry that younger, angrier, reactionaries took their niche'.

DoubleCakes
Jan 14, 2015



I don't buy this "It's a game" narrative. It seems like another deflection in the vein of "I'm only being racist ironically."

sexpig by night
Sep 8, 2011
Probation
Can't post for 6 days!


I mean, it's more that I don't think it matters. Like, to use the wrestling thing, if Kaine spent the last few decades having his character shout nazi slogans and all then it doesn't really matter if it's an act, because he clearly thinks that's ok regardless.

nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013

low vis




DoubleCakes posted:

I don't buy this "It's a game" narrative. It seems like another deflection in the vein of "I'm only being racist ironically."

Sargon threw a woman who worked at a soap store a block from his house to his sprawling online hate mob of wolves because she wore a t-shirt that made him mad. If it's "just a game", then dude is playing it 24/7/365.

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Shitposting 24/7 without regrets. my parents would be proud.


nine-gear crow posted:

Sargon threw a woman who worked at a soap store a block from his house to his sprawling online hate mob of wolves because she wore a t-shirt that made him mad. If it's "just a game", then dude is playing it 24/7/365.

Something, something, she broke the rules.

DoubleCakes posted:

I don't buy this "It's a game" narrative. It seems like another deflection in the vein of "I'm only being racist ironically."

Oh yeah, definitely, itís an excuse for them.

Parakeet vs. Phone
Nov 6, 2009


In practice, people with terminal irony poisoning aren't really that different from the real thing.

This came up in the Q-Anon thread. A supposed Q believer ducked into a conspiracy mocking group on Facebook to say, "Hey, guys, it's all a joke. Most of us don't believe it. It's just fun to spend hours a day making detailed conspiracy boards and building an elaborate world of Illuminati child murder." Sure...that's normal.

And it's funny that it only seems to come up when they need an excuse to avoid consequences or social awkwardness.

Antifa Turkeesian
Aug 20, 2006



DoubleCakes posted:

I don't buy this "It's a game" narrative. It seems like another deflection in the vein of "I'm only being racist ironically."

Carlís actually and definitely a reactionary piece of poo poo. ďIím playing them and only pretendingĒ can only ever be a weak excuse. He came to my city (in the usóan ocean away from his house) to appear at a rally with the New England chapter of the proud boys and happily did a selfie with a nazi who excitedly posted it on his twitter. The nazi dresses like a knight and Carl told him his helmet was really cool.

Carl can lie to himself and say that in his heart heís not like them and was only using them for money and fame, but ultimately if he werenít perfectly fine with nazism he wouldnít have done any of that. Morally speaking, what we are is what we do and nothing more. If he lived in the Weimar Republic he would have been a collaborator and propagandist and not thought twice. Hell, he joined UKIP (the nazi party) last week.

I hate Shoeonhead and armoured sceptic more than Carl because of their transparent bad faith and intellectual cowardliness, but if Carl thinks heís not a nazi, itís because he doesnít understand himself well enough to know whatís in there (which is no surprise considering his intellectual laziness).

Max Wilco
Jan 22, 2012

I'm just trying to go through life without looking stupid.

It's not working out too well...

Kim Justice posted:

This is utterly pointless.

Kim, I think you should stop trying to push for this, because you're just wasting your time.

I don't mean for that to sound like I'm saying, "lol STFU Kym, ur dum. stop posting in tha thred ur annoyin"; I just mean that that I don't think you're going to sway anybody. It doesn't seem like it's worth expending your time or risking your reputation trying to dig for something redeeming. I think as far as everybody's concerned, Blaire and anyone in that circle is beyond redemption, and bound for the gutter.

At the same time, don't take my words to heart, because it could just be that I'm being cynical, and please don't think that I'm asking you to drop out of thread.

Mr.Radar
Nov 5, 2005

You guys aren't going to believe this, but that guy is our games teacher.


Night Mind found a new not-terrible web horror series on Twitter of all places:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqK4wamTp2U

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Puppy Time
Mar 1, 2005



I started following TSV after Reignbot covered it, and yeah, it's pretty cool. Nothing groundbreaking, but the videos are nicely tense and the writing is interesting enough, and that's all I ask for in a webseries.

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