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nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013

low vis




Bakeneko posted:

Iím not about to sit through two hours of her talking about Steven Universe but Iíve seen a few of her other videos and they certainly confirm the ďinsanely combative drama magnetĒ part. She appears to spend a lot of time getting pissed about ponies or feuding with other people in the mlp fandom over some meaningless bullshit about the show introducing a new character or whatever.

oh gently caress me, it just keeps getting dumber

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Dabir
Nov 10, 2012


for what it's worth I watched the video and the point about characters constantly changing size and shape because the storyboards are the most slapdash poo poo you could imagine is a good one. I've never seen Steven Universe and I don't give a drat about it but that was interesting to see in action

Roth
Jul 9, 2016


Only real problem with SU is the hiatus' kill story momentum.

Yardbomb
Jul 11, 2011

What's with the eh... bretonnian dance, sir?



For real, Cartoon Network's scheduling sucks real bad. Multiple sides have said at different times they have a constantly piled up backlog of episodes because CN is obsessed with only ever showing new episodes for it in the crappy bomb format, they show a handful of new episodes, wait months and months, show another couple episodes and repeat. This has led to a couple of problems and pretty much everyone hates the format. One thing is it makes staying on the main story frustrating, since when there ever is plot progression, time to wait another 5 months to see if they push the next part in the next bomb. Another is when the next bomb comes around and oh, there's a handful of townie episodes, which are normally more cute slice of life and silly ones, but when the show is divided up in airings this far apart, a lot of people just want to see the story move. Even dumber is that they've kind of grab bagged town episodes before, so characters can rubberband on events and growth really randomly too.

It's a really cute show, but being at CN's mercy has done it zero favors.

Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012

Hi, Everybody!


Yardbomb posted:

For real, Cartoon Network's scheduling sucks real bad. Multiple sides have said at different times they have a constantly piled up backlog of episodes because CN is obsessed with only ever showing new episodes for it in the crappy bomb format, they show a handful of new episodes, wait months and months, show another couple episodes and repeat. This has led to a couple of problems and pretty much everyone hates the format. One thing is it makes staying on the main story frustrating, since when there ever is plot progression, time to wait another 5 months to see if they push the next part in the next bomb. Another is when the next bomb comes around and oh, there's a handful of townie episodes, which are normally more cute slice of life and silly ones, but when the show is divided up in airings this far apart, a lot of people just want to see the story move. Even dumber is that they've kind of grab bagged town episodes before, so characters can rubberband on events and growth really randomly too.

It sounds a lot like someone wanted to follow the Netflix model without understanding how Netflix works vs a television channel.

i am tim!
Jan 5, 2005

God damn it, where are my ant keys?! I'm gonna miss my flight!

Ghostlight posted:

I mean that's kind of a chicken and CHIM question.

Before Oblivion Cyrodil was a dense rainforest punctuated by large rivers leading down to everglades. Once Bethesda decided to set the game there it became magically always just the most generic middle-European fantasy setting.

The only reason the lore says it's kind of dull is because Bethesda didn't want to make a cool jungle kingdom.

Yeah, Oblivion did not do the worldbuilding for The Elder Scrolls many favours. It did away with Jungle Cyrodiil and the Nibenese and Colovian subcultures of the Imperials. We got to see Moth Priests, but not the really cool ones with clouds of moths sleeping on their beards, we only see the old blind boring ones in a cave.

Oblivion scrubbed out a lot of really neat world building details. Some I can see for practical reasons, but thereís much of it seemed to be for the sake of laziness.

DEEP STATE PLOT
Aug 13, 2008
Probation
Can't post for 37 hours!


oblivion having such a bland world is due to michael kirkbraide having very little input on the game. he's the guy who wrote much of the lore and backstory for the elder scrolls; from what i gather, the aedra and daedra and all the other really weird poo poo that sets elder scrolls apart from your typical tolkein/d&d-inspired fantasy was all or at least mostly from him. he also did a lot of the art design and backstory for morrowind.

purestrain kirkbride would probably make for an awful game (read c0da for evidence of this...or don't), but his not really being around for oblivion is almost certainly the reason the world was so forgettable that i can only remember the name of the imperial city and literally nothing else in the entire game world. like, morrowind is a game with a lot of problems and it basically gets by entirely due to its world design, lore and atmosphere. without that stuff you get...oblivion.

khwarezm
Oct 26, 2010

Deal with it.

OmanyteJackson posted:

HBomb did an entire video personally calling out Stephen Moffat as a hack dude. People analyze creators through their works just to poo poo on them all the time in this thread. It's weird that you see calling out Rebecca Sugar for being obsessed with trama is a bridge too far while also criticizing Lily for her fanfic for dealing with the same topic. Lily admits to being an abuse survivor, not that that matters when your only complaint is that right wing trolls hate her and paint her in a negative light. Some nerds hate her because she has strong opinions and says them in a mean way, ok, why does that even matter?

Like the whole conceit of this thread is that the poo poo we consume matters right? Didn't Hbomb say red letter media was on the wrong side of history for there star wars review? (I don't mean to pick on hbomberguy, love his work).

I don't get you. Why are you buying into propaganda made by the worst people on the internet? What are you trying to say?

I don't really care that much about what Hbomberguy says about other people since I never watched his Sherlock video honestly but I think if he can't maintain some disconnect between the quality of the art and the moral character of the artist then, yes, that would be petty bullshit unless its clearly being done ironically, and of course if it literally was unambiguous propaganda for Trump or something. That's the thing with Lily, you wish she was ironic but she never really is and watching things like her Steven Universe videos she constantly indulges in the most wildly unfair and extravagant readings to paint whatever happens in the show as not just bad but morally reprehensible to the point that Sugar (who's Jewish and Queer) is also morally reprehensible and some kind of Nazi apologist for showing that the villains cry sometimes. It's just the most tedious sort of thrashing you get in circles like this on the internet and its pretty drat hypocritical considering what she's made herself. I wish that all the bad stuff was just constructed by a bunch of trolls, but I've followed her for quite a while (like you I thought her videos were worth a look and dug into her history a bit) and it's really obvious that unlike a lot of targets like Sarkeesian or Quinn they didn't really have to do much to pull up tons of nutty drama around her, which often don't have anything to do with her interaction with Right-wingers.

khwarezm fucked around with this message at 11:27 on Sep 30, 2018

Kunster
Dec 24, 2006



Cartoon Criticism is still kind of reeling from its industry having a reckoning from around 2008, when the crash kind of took power from veterans that made their bread and butter lecturing incoming students to not base any art from anything they actually like + insiders having less problems actually highlighting bad working conditions.

Kim Justice posted:

gently caress yourself, that's a whole year and a half of my life you're talking about

Of course this was on PC, with all the mods. Like, ALL of the mods. Anyone who played it on a console was politely but firmly asked to leave. The only way to play Oblivion is to reinstall it, spend 20 hours re-downloading and sorting through all the mods to get it to work, load it up, kill a Black Horse Courier guy and then not touch it again.

I'm kinda glad that Maxwell Adams' LP of the game (which I think was originally on freaking Google Video) is still online:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbEmJcEkLDc

A classic demonstration of the correct way to play Oblivion. Create the ugliest possible character, use mods to be able to ride around on a giant Dreugh and install weapons from Final Fantasy VII that literally clip through the floor, only touch the main quest when you can't think of literally anything else to do, gently caress with the console and spend lots of time on that one Dark Brotherhood quest where you kill everyone in the house because it's the best part of the game. Also has one of the most appropriate and perfect endings to any LP.

I think the thing that dates that the most was them complaining about the vampire telling you to talk to people during the drug addict elf quest, making a ramble about Halo and Madden being for meatheads, and loving up the quest hard bc the game only recognizes the stealth kill required if you convince the elf to invite you to his den for the fantasy drug hence why they ask you to go talk with people for the flag for it to work.

That being said, I kind of prefer from Twitch VargSkelethor's and Smight + Madithen's. I mean it's 3 different flavors of game approach but the later one made me laugh the hardest since Madithen is an Elder Scrolls veteran so he already kind of showcases precisely just how incredibly dumb the whole ordeal is. Plus any time they summon AirMaster. Shame it's a bit less organized than the two other ones.

Bakeneko
Jan 9, 2007



Playing Oblivion right after its release, I managed to trick myself into liking it for a while. Sure, the random oblivion gates were annoying and the persuasion wheel was stupid and the story was generic crap, but it was an open world game and I was just discovering my love for the genre back then so I still managed to enjoy itÖ for a while. I ended up playing through the main quest just to get the gates to stop showing up, but by that point my enthusiasm was crashing hard and I just didnít have the will to continue.

Iím normally very forgiving when it comes to open world games, but Iíve never felt the desire to go back even with mods. Iíll still play Fallout 3 when the mood strikes me despite that gameís many flaws, but not Oblivion.

i am tim!
Jan 5, 2005

God damn it, where are my ant keys?! I'm gonna miss my flight!

DEEP STATE PLOT posted:

oblivion having such a bland world is due to michael kirkbraide having very little input on the game. he's the guy who wrote much of the lore and backstory for the elder scrolls; from what i gather, the aedra and daedra and all the other really weird poo poo that sets elder scrolls apart from your typical tolkein/d&d-inspired fantasy was all or at least mostly from him. he also did a lot of the art design and backstory for morrowind.

purestrain kirkbride would probably make for an awful game (read c0da for evidence of this...or don't), but his not really being around for oblivion is almost certainly the reason the world was so forgettable that i can only remember the name of the imperial city and literally nothing else in the entire game world. like, morrowind is a game with a lot of problems and it basically gets by entirely due to its world design, lore and atmosphere. without that stuff you get...oblivion.

Michael Kirkbride is a great influence to have in the Elder Scrolls series but I feel he's constantly misattributed as being what made Morrowind really tic. Pointing at Mike's work on the 36 Sermons of Vivec is an example of something that Morrowind did better than the rest is easier than pointing out Doug Goodall's or Ken Rolston's work on making sure the various faction quest lines stay consistent with eachother. A considerable feet since Morrowind is the last in the series to make being a member of two conflicting factions a problem you have to actually manage.

I'll also defend c0da; of COURSE it would make for an awful video game, c0da's an awful script for a comic book. Probably not even the worst comic book ever, it'd be an alright read with what could be some really interesting visuals if he ever gets past publishing the script online and calling it a day. For pointing out why Kirkbride's writing needs to be reigned in, I like to point to the recently released "The Shonni-etta exceprts," wherein Mike writes about how Reman Cyrodiil, one of the great Emperors of the past, had two wives ordered by Akatosh to make sure every last drop of semen he ever ejaculates gets made into bread and fed back to him without his knowing. Every. Last. Drop.

Mr.Radar
Nov 5, 2005

You guys aren't going to believe this, but that guy is our games teacher.


Oliver from Philosophy Tube discusses whether suicide is always irrational or whether people can rationally choose to end their own life:

Major content warning: discussion of suicide, which gets very personal and emotional in the second half.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQNw2FBdpyE

Kim Justice
Jan 29, 2007



i am tim! posted:

For pointing out why Kirkbride's writing needs to be reigned in, I like to point to the recently released "The Shonni-etta exceprts," wherein Mike writes about how Reman Cyrodiil, one of the great Emperors of the past, had two wives ordered by Akatosh to make sure every last drop of semen he ever ejaculates gets made into bread and fed back to him without his knowing. Every. Last. Drop.

Was there a reason for this, or was it just so that on his deathbed the wives could say "lol you think you're so great but we've made you eat your own cum for the past 40 years, sorry not sorry bitch"?

sexpig by night
Sep 8, 2011
Probation
Can't post for 6 days!


I really enjoy the genre of youtube that's 'person in actual job talks about media portrayal of job'.

I just found this guy LegalEagle, he's mainly a law school resource but he's started branching into general 'here's how the legal side of things is portrayed in the media and how it really works.' which is way more general and fun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1VFfVsZt7w

I like that aside from the obvious procedure stuff he talks about poo poo like 'yea Nicholson's character just rambling about what everyone else was thinking wouldn't be worth anything but yea as a lawyer you can sometimes want to let a witness hang themselves by playing along with their bullshit'.

Are there any other good examples of professional takes on stuff like TV show views of their jobs and all?

khwarezm
Oct 26, 2010

Deal with it.

What a coincidence, I was also binging that guy's stuff, who knew Better Call Saul would be one of the most accurate representations of the law on TV?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ya_trIAWIXA

There's also this guy who does basically the same thing for Television's other endless staple next to legal drama, the medical drama.

sexpig by night
Sep 8, 2011
Probation
Can't post for 6 days!


nice I was hoping for a medical drama version of that.

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Shitposting 24/7 without regrets. my parents would be proud.


khwarezm posted:

What a coincidence, I was also binging that guy's stuff, who knew Better Call Saul would be one of the most accurate representations of the law on TV?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ya_trIAWIXA

There's also this guy who does basically the same thing for Television's other endless staple next to legal drama, the medical drama.

as someone with various medical issues and a poo poo ton of hospital stays, i have always wondered what doctors thought of those shows. thanks for the link.

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012




sexpig by night posted:

I really enjoy the genre of youtube that's 'person in actual job talks about media portrayal of job'.

I just found this guy LegalEagle, he's mainly a law school resource but he's started branching into general 'here's how the legal side of things is portrayed in the media and how it really works.' which is way more general and fun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1VFfVsZt7w

I like that aside from the obvious procedure stuff he talks about poo poo like 'yea Nicholson's character just rambling about what everyone else was thinking wouldn't be worth anything but yea as a lawyer you can sometimes want to let a witness hang themselves by playing along with their bullshit'.

Are there any other good examples of professional takes on stuff like TV show views of their jobs and all?

This remains my all-time favourite example of the genre.

DEEP STATE PLOT
Aug 13, 2008
Probation
Can't post for 37 hours!


Kim Justice posted:

Was there a reason for this, or was it just so that on his deathbed the wives could say "lol you think you're so great but we've made you eat your own cum for the past 40 years, sorry not sorry bitch"?

it's because kirkbride is an insane maniac. really read into the deeper elder scrolls lore and this poo poo doesn't sound all that out there.

OmanyteJackson
Mar 18, 2012

by Nyc_Tattoo


khwarezm posted:

I don't really care that much about what Hbomberguy says about other people since I never watched his Sherlock video honestly but I think if he can't maintain some disconnect between the quality of the art and the moral character of the artist then, yes, that would be petty bullshit unless its clearly being done ironically, and of course if it literally was unambiguous propaganda for Trump or something. That's the thing with Lily, you wish she was ironic but she never really is and watching things like her Steven Universe videos she constantly indulges in the most wildly unfair and extravagant readings to paint whatever happens in the show as not just bad but morally reprehensible to the point that Sugar (who's Jewish and Queer) is also morally reprehensible and some kind of Nazi apologist for showing that the villains cry sometimes. It's just the most tedious sort of thrashing you get in circles like this on the internet and its pretty drat hypocritical considering what she's made herself. I wish that all the bad stuff was just constructed by a bunch of trolls, but I've followed her for quite a while (like you I thought her videos were worth a look and dug into her history a bit) and it's really obvious that unlike a lot of targets like Sarkeesian or Quinn they didn't really have to do much to pull up tons of nutty drama around her, which often don't have anything to do with her interaction with Right-wingers.

I don't think she's being unreasonable when she says that a show for children shouldn't promote sympathy to fascist and abusers.

stillvisions
Oct 15, 2014

I really should have come up with something better before spending five bucks on this.


khwarezm posted:

What a coincidence, I was also binging that guy's stuff, who knew Better Call Saul would be one of the most accurate representations of the law on TV?

I always liked that My Cousin Vinny is considered one of the gold standard movies for trial accuracy. The director had a law degree, which helped.

Hemingway To Go!
Nov 10, 2008

im stupider then dog shit, i dont give a shit, and i dont give a fuck, and i will never shut the fuck up, and i'll always Respect my enemys.
- ernest hemingway


OmanyteJackson posted:

I don't think she's being unreasonable when she says that a show for children shouldn't promote sympathy to fascist and abusers.

You mean like kylo Ren and Darth Vader?

Dragonatrix
Aug 16, 2009

You have offended STRINGIE! You must be punished!


Darth Walrus posted:

This remains my all-time favourite example of the genre.

I was hoping this was gonna be exactly what it was. That this exists at all is amazing.

DoctorWhat
Nov 18, 2011

Someone call the Chancellery Guard. Commander Maxil's out of uniform. AGAIN.

When you separate the categories of "fascists and abusers" and "people with emotional lives" you perpetuate the idea that fascists and abusers are a distinct kind of entity - that capital-F Fascists and big-A Abusers are monstrous, nonhuman beings responsible for all the cruelty and abuse in the world. And if you grow up convinced that you're a Real Person and all those fascists and Bad Guys are nonhuman enemies, it can be very easy to ignore the abusive behavior you or your friends engage in.

Steven Universe is doing good work.

Roth
Jul 9, 2016


DoctorWhat posted:

When you separate the categories of "fascists and abusers" and "people with emotional lives" you perpetuate the idea that fascists and abusers are a distinct kind of entity - that capital-F Fascists and big-A Abusers are monstrous, nonhuman beings responsible for all the cruelty and abuse in the world. And if you grow up convinced that you're a Real Person and all those fascists and Bad Guys are nonhuman enemies, it can be very easy to ignore the abusive behavior you or your friends engage in.

Steven Universe is doing good work.

Also, it's not like the Diamonds have been forgiven. Nobody but Steven has any kind of trust in them, and Steven has been calling them on their poo poo the entire time.

sexpig by night
Sep 8, 2011
Probation
Can't post for 6 days!


The show has an entire major secondary character who's defining trait is 'emotional trauma makes her lash out in ways that hurt herself and others even if she doesn't want to' who's treated entirely differently than 'the diamonds are sad brutal dictators'. I think they're pretty good on separating emotional pain and bad actions

Kunster
Dec 24, 2006



Sometimes weirdly bc you have one episode that stares at the viewer and goes "Actually, these are merely the specks of our understanding of one's character, one that merely highlights the character's greatness as a whole, here is your attitude compared to a complete fool in the last subtle analogy to matters" and the immediate next one is "Ok you have to actually address this bad thing you did to the other secondary character or at least explain yourself to her, what the hell".

Which was something else bc I'm pretty drat sure a lot of people saw themselves on her and were treating that particular segment like Emperor Commodus here.

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!


DoctorWhat posted:

When you separate the categories of "fascists and abusers" and "people with emotional lives" you perpetuate the idea that fascists and abusers are a distinct kind of entity - that capital-F Fascists and big-A Abusers are monstrous, nonhuman beings responsible for all the cruelty and abuse in the world. And if you grow up convinced that you're a Real Person and all those fascists and Bad Guys are nonhuman enemies, it can be very easy to ignore the abusive behavior you or your friends engage in.

Steven Universe is doing good work.

Hmm yes if you potray one thing as bad that means everything else is actually good.

What the gently caress.

Kim Justice
Jan 29, 2007



Why is the thought that actually people do terrible things and not mecha satan zombie beasts a controversial one?

How do you think they get in the position to abuse in the first place

Sephyr
Aug 28, 2012


The concept that bad guys have inner life and legitimate issues has been part of western mythos since...I don't know, the Iliad? Other classical franchises like the Godfather are all but predicated upon it. Freaking Dragon Ball has had recruiting former enemies as friends as a thing since I was a toddler. Sure, Vegeta, you've murdered what, thousands? But you're cool, so hang with us!

I can see -some- validity to the concept, but the alternative is the whole "make every villain an irredeemable, pitch-black monster caricature", which has its own problems and repercussions when translated to real ethics. "Well, my uncle Walt is a racist weirdo who loves Sean Hannity, but he's nice to me and to his wife, so he couldn't be a -bad- guy! He doesn't even kick puppies or laugh maniacally about how wicked he is!"

Realizing that sometimes you have to forgive people despite all the harm in the past is an actual thing. Hell, it's a theme in itself, and a complicated, rich one.

So yeah, it was an odd video that stank of clickbait conflict and a bit of bad faith to me.

Antifa Turkeesian
Aug 20, 2006



Mr.Radar posted:

Oliver from Philosophy Tube discusses whether suicide is always irrational or whether people can rationally choose to end their own life:

Major content warning: discussion of suicide, which gets very personal and emotional in the second half.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQNw2FBdpyE

Ollieís ambition is really serving him well in these newer videos. I thought I liked the ones where he just monologued in front of his bookshelf, but these more Contrapoints-ish ones have been knocking it out of the park. He really is an actor who does philosophy for fun/out of duty.

Also no joke on that content warning.

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!


I uh donít think people generally go around forgiving mass murders no.

Thatís not really a thing.

Itís more common to pretend it didnít happen.

Roth
Jul 9, 2016


Good thing they haven't been forgiven in SU then.

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!


Roth posted:

Good thing they haven't been forgiven in SU then.

Good for them I guess.

Calaveron
Aug 7, 2006


Iím watching the 99 Dragons AVGN and the dude does not sound anything at all like he used to sound wtf

OmanyteJackson
Mar 18, 2012

by Nyc_Tattoo


This isn't an abstract concept, were talking about dictators who rule a society based on racial purity and they also have a human zoos, a real loving thing, and there treated as a good thing? Do we really need to use Nazis as a tool to teach empathy?

Think about how this lesson plays out in real life. Do we need to understand that Kavanaugh is basically a good guy even though he want's to restrict women's rights? Or that trump had issues with his dad even though he's putting children in cages? Of course loving not. So why is it okay to tell kids that they have to empathise specifically with people with power that mean them harm?

The baffling thing is it doesn't have to be this way, you don't need an antagonist to check off every known human atrocity and you don't need an antagonist that evokes empathy. Why the gently caress would you do both?

Antifa Turkeesian
Aug 20, 2006



OmanyteJackson posted:

This isn't an abstract concept, were talking about dictators who rule a society based on racial purity and they also have a human zoos, a real loving thing, and there treated as a good thing? Do we really need to use Nazis as a tool to teach empathy?

Think about how this lesson plays out in real life. Do we need to understand that Kavanaugh is basically a good guy even though he want's to restrict women's rights? Or that trump had issues with his dad even though he's putting children in cages? Of course loving not. So why is it okay to tell kids that they have to empathise specifically with people with power that mean them harm?

The baffling thing is it doesn't have to be this way, you don't need an antagonist to check off every known human atrocity and you don't need an antagonist that evokes empathy. Why the gently caress would you do both?

Of course you donít. Itís a show for children. And probably itís going in the direction of fixing the alien culture by teaching the majority about compassion and tolerance because thatís what the show is about.

Roth
Jul 9, 2016


OmanyteJackson posted:

This isn't an abstract concept, were talking about dictators who rule a society based on racial purity and they also have a human zoos, a real loving thing, and there treated as a good thing? Do we really need to use Nazis as a tool to teach empathy?

No? Have you even watched the show, because none of that was ever commented on as a good thing in any way.

OmanyteJackson
Mar 18, 2012

by Nyc_Tattoo


business hammocks posted:

Of course you donít. Itís a show for children. And probably itís going in the direction of fixing the alien culture by teaching the majority about compassion and tolerance because thatís what the show is about.

You teach a kid to be compassionate toward a dog that bit them or the kid that called them stupid. You don't need to teach kids that Hitler was a nice guy once. Especially with the shows fixation on trauma, telling kids that they have to understand their abusers side is pretty unforgivable.

Like for real, i stopped watching steven universe around season two mostly because it was going anywhere and Steven himself was too annoying for me, but i figured it still had potential and offered
more good than bad. Coming back to find out how loving gross this show became is really disheartening especially considering the target audience of young girls queer kids.

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The Kenster
Jun 20, 2013

First of all, that Clocktown could really use a floating celestial object of doom... With a face!


"Steven Universe sympathizes with fascists" is a "Night In The Woods is Trumpian propoganda" level galaxy-brained hot take.

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