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Linear Zoetrope posted:I think the old series are colluding or something because EMH updated twice this month after being dead for 2 years, and Tribe Twelve is tweeting (though I think that one was still semi-active). I'm guessing it's also the Night Mind effect - he's sending new eyeballs their way as people explore his back catalog and they're seeing the viewer numbers come back again, so might as well keep going. Also Patreon has become a thing so they can have that as a mini-revenue-stream on the side without having to break too much character in the videos. I can imagine perks such as "we'll send you a mysterious package from _______" or "our evil twitter being will mark you for death" or such.
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Apr 25, 2018 15:52
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Terrible Opinions posted:It's good to see that your stance is that art cannot have differing levels of quality. You may want to leave a thread primarily for discussing critics and criticism. Well, kinda not? I mean, I don't think the purpose of criticism is to "rank" art by varying levels of "quality" if that's what you mean. I think criticism is rad and cool and a great way to talk about films, books, music, visual art, etc and furthermore, that the "purpose" of criticism (so much that there is one) is not to say "this is good" or "this is bad". IMO we can and should talk about art and its critics more deeply than "this movie is bad". And I reckon you agree! A good example of that is, for example, Ellis' third Hobbit video. Stood up on its own, it is a criticism of the art that isn't a qualitative criticism, and that's awesome  Out of curiosity, what are some things that you look for when you determine the "quality" of a film, apart from your own enjoyment? Ghostlight posted:I didn't see any substantive difference in the thesis presented in the third part than in the first two. That is, I did not take the first two parts at all to be a criticism of The Hobbits as bad films - yes, they were films Lindsey clearly didn't think were as good as they should have been - but all of the specific arguments I can recall were very clearly presented from the perspective of how The Hobbits were made influencing the why of The Hobbits Bad (Subjective ofc). Tonal shifts were discussed in context of the need to stretch the story to incomprehensible length, changes to the characters from the book were mentioned alongside the need to have those characters be more developed because they needed to have character arcs people were engaged in throughout the movie because it's no longer just Bilbo's baker's dozen adventure. The whole thing is virtually punctuated by her mentions of studio interference; narrative pressures both in length, scale, and tone; and generally what a clusterfuck the actual act of accomplishing the movie was. I get you, and point taken, and I think we just disagree is all
Waffles Inc. fucked around with this message at 16:28 on Apr 25, 2018 |
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Apr 25, 2018 16:16
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The only good way to talk about art is with beer and friends.
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Apr 25, 2018 16:27
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CelticPredator posted:The only good way to talk about art is with beer and friends. Actually it is with the President who looks like somebody I could have a beer with.
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Apr 25, 2018 16:31
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The president smells of piss
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Apr 25, 2018 16:33
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CelticPredator posted:The president smells of piss Ah, a Coors drinker.
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Apr 25, 2018 16:39
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Waffles Inc. posted:Well, kinda not? I mean, I don't think the purpose of criticism is to "rank" art by varying levels of "quality" if that's what you mean. I think criticism is rad and cool and a great way to talk about films, books, music, visual art, etc and furthermore, that the "purpose" of criticism (so much that there is one) is not to say "this is good" or "this is bad". Discussion of the cultural context around a work is very important and really interesting but "a discussion of a works merits and faults" is literally the definition of criticism. Boiling it down to "this is good/bad" is a massive oversimplification of what is a major part of criticism.
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Apr 25, 2018 16:42
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Terrible Opinions posted:It's good to see that your stance is that art cannot have differing levels of quality. You may want to leave a thread primarily for discussing critics and criticism. Way to misrepresent that dudes argument so you can be catty. Maybe if a discussion of the uses and methods of criticism causes you frustration you could take your own advice. Somebody mentioned 'Waiting for Godot' and I find that it remains one of my all-time favorite plays because it can be felt as a commentary on so much of the human experience. I find it really funny how whenever the anxiety of their wait gets to Vladimir and Estragon they engage in criticism of themselves, each other, and even the very world around them to pass the time and generate temporal meaning. Is there anybody around that does any interesting essays about Samuel Beckett's work? I honestly feel like all his plays would resonate very strongly with da youth of today.
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Apr 25, 2018 16:42
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Waffles Inc. posted:Well, kinda not? I mean, I don't think the purpose of criticism is to "rank" art by varying levels of "quality" if that's what you mean. I think criticism is rad and cool and a great way to talk about films, books, music, visual art, etc and furthermore, that the "purpose" of criticism (so much that there is one) is not to say "this is good" or "this is bad". Waffles Inc. posted:IMO we can and should talk about art and its critics more deeply than "this movie is bad". And I reckon you agree! A good example of that is, for example, Ellis' third Hobbit video. Stood up on its own, it is a criticism of the art that isn't a qualitative criticism, and that's awesome
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Apr 25, 2018 16:55
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Trojan Kaiju posted:Discussion of the cultural context around a work is very important and really interesting but "a discussion of a works merits and faults" is literally the definition of criticism. Boiling it down to "this is good/bad" is a massive oversimplification of what is a major part of criticism. I totally agree OP! That said "discussion of merits and faults" doesn't mean art necessarily has "differing levels of quality" A Gnarlacious Bro posted:Somebody mentioned 'Waiting for Godot' and I find that it remains one of my all-time favorite plays because it can be felt as a commentary on so much of the human experience. I find it really funny how whenever the anxiety of their wait gets to Vladimir and Estragon they engage in criticism of themselves, each other, and even the very world around them to pass the time and generate temporal meaning. 'Waiting for Godot' is pretty rad I think, and a lot of the Theater of the Absurd influences a lot of modern works that I think are good, like Martin McDonagh. If you like Beckett and haven't already done so, you should check out Brecht as well (speaking of resonating even more strongly today), 'Mother Courage' seems especially relevant Terrible Opinions posted:"This movie is bad" isn't very valuable, but "this is why this movie fails to connect with most people in the way it intended or the way they wanted it to" is a bit of a mouthful and it's much easier to say "here's why this movie is bad". Ah I get you! This makes sense. I guess where I disagree is that saying the first thing means the same as saying the second thing.
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Apr 25, 2018 16:55
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Karloff posted:But, speaking of stuff I don't like about internet critics: This isn't an emptyquote. It is me trying to not write a point-by-point teardown of this video. It's frustrating that I can't articulate how cross I am at how wrong this video is. This isn't Irate Gamer being unable to use a menu in Tekken, this is wilful ignorance, they're wallowing in their lack of research. If I had a setup I'd become an internet critic overnight just to rip this video apart. ... Wow. It's like someone weaponised indignation. This could be dangerous in the wrong hands.
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Apr 25, 2018 16:58
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Waffles Inc. posted:
"This is good/bad" is a layman's way of getting to "this is why this succeeds/fails." Critical video essays are mostly saying the latter with just a bit of the former anyway so it seems like a non issue to me.
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Apr 25, 2018 17:05
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For people who are bored by this conversation, Mark Brown has a Game Maker's Toolkit episode out.
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Apr 25, 2018 17:05
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Trojan Kaiju posted:"This is good/bad" is a layman's way of getting to "this is why this succeeds/fails." I don't think you're wrong in every case, but I think for most people, "this is good/bad" means "I didn't like/I like this thing" "Succeeding" and "failing" are independent of a person's enjoyment of a thing, if it's possible for art to "succeed" or "fail" at all Arcsquad12 posted:For people who are bored by this conversation, Mark Brown has a Game Maker's Toolkit episode out. hell yeah
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Apr 25, 2018 17:08
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Arcsquad12 posted:For people who are bored by this conversation, Mark Brown has a Game Maker's Toolkit episode out. \[T]/ Horse, But hole!
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Apr 25, 2018 17:10
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Waffles Inc. posted:I don't think you're wrong in every case, but I think for most people, "this is good/bad" means "I didn't like/I like this thing" from a craft perspective it's absolutely possible for art to succeed or fail if i set out to make a heart-rending tragedy and the reviews come back saying it's the funniest comedy they've ever seen, my art has failed to achieve what i wanted to do even if it's still 'good' art for whatever that means in this conversation
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Apr 25, 2018 17:12
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When you judge success or failure broadly, individual people have different metrics and are looking for different things going in, usually informed by the contexts of what they already understand and expect tempered by their lived experiences. The consensus can also change radically over time as aspects that may have initially seemed like failings become recontextualized as breakthroughs in new techniques of craft, even after the artist is long dead. The Hobbit most likely isn't some avant-garde masterpiece waiting to be redeemed like Freddy Got Fingered objectively and definitively is, but success and failure of an artwork is far more difficult to ascertain and fleeting than a focused analysis engaged through a specific lens (or set of lenses). That's not to say that claiming something "failed based on x standards" isn't totally valid if it's defended well, though. That's just one of the lenses you can engage with, after all.
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Apr 25, 2018 17:33
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Nyx Fears has a new video out about a bizarre new indie comedy(?) film called Krystal that's in theaters right now and, well, I'll let the video title fill in the rest: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwxC2IitCGY
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Apr 25, 2018 18:16
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So...who's up for another video about Dark Souls? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhWdBhc3Wjc
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Apr 25, 2018 19:01
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me.
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Apr 25, 2018 19:04
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Waffles Inc. posted:I don't think you're wrong in every case, but I think for most people, "this is good/bad" means "I didn't like/I like this thing" I feel like this is edging reeeeaaaallly close to "Well, everyone has their own individual opinion and experience, so there's no point in discussing anything in terms of wider appeal." Which, like, yes, it's super possible to like something that's terrible. I like a lot of works that are pretty garbage on a crafting level, and not because they're trying to break out of norms or whatever, just because they're not really well made. I can very easily say, "These are garbage, here are the ways they are garbage, but they are my garbage and I will be over here rubbing my face on the garbage in glee." Criticism will obviously have to have SOME framework of standards for good/bad quality. Art is not a natural thing with fundamental laws, it's culturally constructed. At some point, you have to accept that every critic is working with an unspoken assumption of "We are using certain rules and standards for the sake of the discussion." Todd uses Western Pop and Rock rules for his reviews, not Chinese Opera rules. Lindsay uses Western Filmography rules, not Bunraku Theatre rules. This isn't a failing on their parts, nor does it mean that the rules they don't use are bad. There's a certain amount of value in thinking about WHY the rules are there and whether they can be broken, but that's a question that's separate from works unthinkingly or accidentally breaking rules, or breaking rules intentionally but to poor reception. (Which is itself an ongoing discussion as cultural standards change.)
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Apr 25, 2018 19:08
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So I'm watching through Lindsay Ellis's Hobbit videos and I'm sorry but this is really bugging me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTRUQ-RKfUs&t=1246s (20:46 if the timestamp doesn't work) So...what I'm seeing here is a Dragon Priest deciding to use the Tatsumaki Senpukyaku right towards a cliff for some reason, sending himself off said cliff...and our hero just kinda...wacks the back of his knee while he's doing that? ...What?
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Apr 25, 2018 20:03
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Puppy Time posted:I feel like this is edging reeeeaaaallly close to "Well, everyone has their own individual opinion and experience, so there's no point in discussing anything in terms of wider appeal." yeah, i think this is spot on. i was going to type more but i realized i was just rephrasing what you said
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Apr 25, 2018 20:19
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Earthbound (SNES) Angry Video Game Nerd: Episode 156: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZ5nX0FTH6Q
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Apr 25, 2018 20:25
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I'm glad we traded out botl with botl but whinier and with even less concrete beliefs
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Apr 25, 2018 20:54
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How about instead of complaining about the stuff you don't like you add some content as well to try and steer other people into a new conversation? Example: Well it looks like JonTron didn't learn anything from his timeout. He's literally using South Park logic now. 
Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 21:12 on Apr 25, 2018 |
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Apr 25, 2018 21:09
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Alaois posted:I'm glad we traded out botl with botl but whinier and with even less concrete beliefs y'know, I wasn't gonna bite on this hook because I don't know you OP, maybe you're having a bad day or something, who knows. but like, maybe chill? what provoked this?
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Apr 25, 2018 21:09
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Waffles Inc. posted:y'know, I wasn't gonna bite on this hook because I don't know you OP, maybe you're having a bad day or something, who knows. but like, maybe chill? i hope you've been working on your omoplata defense motherfucker
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Apr 25, 2018 21:11
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someone should inform jontron that the simpsons hasn't been funny in like two decades
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Apr 25, 2018 21:15
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Augus posted:someone should inform jontron that the simpsons hasn't been funny in like two decades Let Moviebob do it. While he's been long winded with his Apu videos, he's also not really wrong. And Bob's Burgers hits the same notes of absurdist humour and working families much better than the Simpsons has. I've been on a binge and it's really good.
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Apr 25, 2018 21:20
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This is a very rude thread, and very cliquey
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Apr 25, 2018 21:23
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A Gnarlacious Bro posted:This is a very rude thread, and very cliquey The arguments are usually two or three people being pedants. If you want to talk about something, just post it and you'll find that other people likke to pop their heads in when someone other than the ramblers are posting stuff. I don't want to scare people off, and I'm sorry about others making the place uncomfortable and cliquey.
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Apr 25, 2018 21:25
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Augus posted:someone should inform jontron that the simpsons hasn't been funny in like two decades Neither has Jontron so I doubt he'll care
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Apr 25, 2018 21:28
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Arcsquad12 posted:How about instead of complaining about the stuff you don't like you add some content as well to try and steer other people into a new conversation? Example:  Also these lame pricks are so pitiful at coming up with new material or arguments that they've STILL just gotta keep on with ~political correctness~ in the year of our lord 2018, even though that phrase hasn't been used in earnest in how loving long, pretty much because they have a choice of that or channer slang by this point, which is usually outright bigoted rather than "You know what I'm sayin" bigoted like the "PC GONE MAD  " crap.
Yardbomb fucked around with this message at 21:36 on Apr 25, 2018 |
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Apr 25, 2018 21:32
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New Movie Nights: Vulassic Park! Also, I'm not suggesting you go and watch it, but dumbass Doug put up a review of Starship Troopers. Considering he doesn't know how satire works, I don't know what he's expecting out of a Verhoeven film.
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Apr 25, 2018 21:35
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Mr.Radar posted:Nyx Fears has a new video out about a bizarre new indie comedy(?) film called Krystal that's in theaters right now and, well, I'll let the video title fill in the rest: Say what you will about Night Mind, but he's helped promote Nyx Fears a lot. Her video style has improved a lot from what they were. I hope she eventually does some more critical essays on good movies again, since she watches movies that a lot of other youtubers won't touch.
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Apr 25, 2018 21:35
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Augus posted:someone should inform jontron that the simpsons hasn't been funny in like two decades That reminds me that one of my favorite video essays is Super Eyepatch Wolf's video on The Simpsons https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqFNbCcyFkk
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Apr 25, 2018 21:38
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MariusLecter posted:Earthbound (SNES) Angry Video Game Nerd: Episode 156: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZ5nX0FTH6Q I had to drop out of this video (which I watched early on Amazon Prime BTW - just throwing that out there) near the end because I kinda want to experience the thing first hand, but also I don't have the time or the patience to pour into a 20+ year old hard-as-balls SNES JRPG. Can anyone recommend a good video LP of this?
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Apr 25, 2018 21:49
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I wouldn't call earthbound hard at all.
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Apr 25, 2018 21:49
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Arcsquad12 posted:New Movie Nights: Vulassic Park! Starship Troopers pales in comparison to the true satire of Vulassic Park. 
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