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Archer666
Dec 27, 2008



BrianWilly posted:

I like Rogue One a grand deal more than TLJ to be honest

Rogue One was so utterly forgottable I had forgotten I'd seen it until this post.

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Tired Moritz
Mar 25, 2012

wish Lowtax would get tired of YOUR POSTS

(n o i c e)


All starwars are bad

Groovelord Neato
Dec 6, 2014




i've come to the same conclusion, friend. there's at least more bad star wars than good.

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012




Tired Moritz posted:

All starwars are bad

Star Wars, huh? What is it good for?

sexpig by night
Sep 8, 2011



I liked TLJ a lot but the idea it takes three viewings to 'fully understand' is absurd. Like, yea watch a movie however many times you want but the movie explicitly spells its core themes and ideals out via multiple characters just literally telling you them. The symbolism is such deep cuts as 'they burn the Jedi texts after a constant mantra of 'kill your past if you must' because both the Jedi and the Sith need to be reborn in the new era' and 'we explain Rey's origins don't matter by having someone literally make her look in the camera and say 'yea no poo poo my parents were junk dealers that never cared about me and probably died in squalor''.

I liked TLJ but I also just watched an Infinity War review where one of the guys on it said after IW's ending the TLJ team should probably feel a little embarrassed because boy did they nail the whole vibe TLJ was going for so much better with so much more skilled execution.

Groovelord Neato
Dec 6, 2014




sexpig by night posted:

'they burn the Jedi texts after a constant mantra of 'kill your past if you must' because both the Jedi and the Sith need to be reborn in the new era'

but then rey has the books in the falcon. that was my big issue - they only ever went halfway.

sexpig by night
Sep 8, 2011



Groovelord Neato posted:

but then rey has the books in the falcon. that was my big issue - they only ever went halfway.

Yea that was pretty stupid

Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012

Hi, Everybody!


Groovelord Neato posted:

but then rey has the books in the falcon. that was my big issue - they only ever went halfway.

The point was specifically for Luke to accept his past, the failings of the Jedi, and move the gently caress on from his mistakes instead of just waiting to die in shame. Rey's past came with the Sith mirror and learning to accept that she has no great destiny, no parents of legend. It's all. Just. Her.

Learning from the Jedi books is, for her at least, a way forward so as to understand her Force talents.

sexpig by night
Sep 8, 2011



Neddy Seagoon posted:

The point was specifically for Luke to accept his past, the failings of the Jedi, and move the gently caress on from his mistakes instead of just waiting to die in shame. Rey's past came with the Sith mirror and learning to accept that she has no great destiny, no parents of legend. It's all. Just. Her.

Learning from the Jedi books is, for her at least, a way forward so as to understand her Force talents.


Yea but Like having to accept his past as past is completely undone with that because the only reason Rey took the books was because Luke gave them such weight. His chains are still alive and well, he just passed them on to her. I guess they were trying to do a whole 'no one ever really overcomes their past' thing like how Kylo super clearly was conflicted when he asked if Luke was there to tell him to come home and probably would have gone even but instead Luke was just all 'no' and things escalated. Like, Luke overcoming his past kept Kylo chained in his and then by extension kept Rey bound with these pretty useless old traditions, so even if he personally felt at ease enough to move on his past still stayed behind but I genuinely don't think they have the balls to go there in the next movie because they have to show that as a corrupting rather than enlightening force and I think they're very dedicated to the much more boring use of The Force where it's "Jedi good, Sith bad' so ergo Luke good Kylo bad.

sexpig by night
Sep 8, 2011



hello yes I'm a nerd on the internet and I have star wars opinions, I'm very unique I know

Antifa Turkeesian
Aug 20, 2006



The thing with the ancient jedi texts is that 40-something years into your franchise is a little late to be introducing the idea that books exist in space and are things people in space read and know about. Ditto for space economics.

Groovelord Neato
Dec 6, 2014




Neddy Seagoon posted:

The point was specifically for Luke to accept his past, the failings of the Jedi, and move the gently caress on from his mistakes instead of just waiting to die in shame. Rey's past came with the Sith mirror and learning to accept that she has no great destiny, no parents of legend. It's all. Just. Her.

Learning from the Jedi books is, for her at least, a way forward so as to understand her Force talents.


sexpig said it better but nah.

business hammocks posted:

The thing with the ancient jedi texts is that 40-something years into your franchise is a little late to be introducing the idea that books exist in space and are things people in space read and know about. Ditto for space economics.

yeah luke didn't use books he got trained by a little goblin. (the reason the books are in is rian johnson is a big eu fan, when someone said the projection stuff was silly he pulled out some eu book in defense.)

i've always hated the idea that the jedi were some giant organized religion anyway. i assumed they were wandering monks going around doing good deeds maybe coming across some force sensitive kid and taking them on as an apprentice. but that's just me.

Groovelord Neato fucked around with this message at 15:53 on Apr 29, 2018

sexpig by night
Sep 8, 2011



yea all the best Jedi stories are about how they're just a loosely ordered union of space monks spanning the galaxy with their own views and traditions that often clash with each other almost as often as they do with true Sith. The idea of there even being 'ancient Jedi texts' already uses the most dull version of them when they're just all Space Tibetan Buddhists Written By A White Guy Who Doesn't Actually Know What Tibetan Buddhists Are

RoboChrist 9000
Dec 14, 2006

mater dolorosa

Groovelord Neato posted:

i've always hated the idea that the jedi were some giant organized religion anyway. i assumed they were wandering monks going around doing good deeds maybe coming across some force sensitive kid and taking them on as an apprentice. but that's just me.

It's not just you. It's one of my many issues with the prequels. The Jedi as described and implied in the Original Trilogy sound a lot more like knights errant in space than they do stoic space buddhist monks. You got the sort of new age/pop culture eastern mysticism from Yoda and poo poo, but the overall vibe from what we hear and see of the Jedi sounds more like wandering ronin and space knights, not monastic folks with an organized hierarchy who sit around writing and contemplating books.

poparena
Oct 31, 2012



A couple of new videos in the last twenty four hours. First, a book hunt video where I hit up some bookstores in Calgary, Alberta, Canada.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HK6DOk-qmf0

And then, a new Doctor Who Book Guide, this time on "Shadowmind" by Christopher Bulis. It's very slight.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05xgXNYpUb0

GoneRampant
Aug 19, 2016

by FactsAreUseless


RoboChrist 9000 posted:

It's not just you. It's one of my many issues with the prequels. The Jedi as described and implied in the Original Trilogy sound a lot more like knights errant in space than they do stoic space buddhist monks. You got the sort of new age/pop culture eastern mysticism from Yoda and poo poo, but the overall vibe from what we hear and see of the Jedi sounds more like wandering ronin and space knights, not monastic folks with an organized hierarchy who sit around writing and contemplating books.

Low-key but I would love if after the sequel films that's where they take the Jedi. Luke point blank says that the old ways of the Jedi were all failures, so have Rey teach the new generation of Jedi (we know she's going to so that we can have more Jedi protagonists in the future) but instead teach them to wander the galaxy and do right by your own code.

cosmically_cosmic
Dec 26, 2015


I just want to say the most egregious part of that was Yoda using the term 'Page turner'. Like he says 'Page turners, they were not' about the Jedi books.



I really don't know why but that was like hear yoda say like 'gently caress the police' or something.


I just can't get over why that term messes with me so much.

(I also liked TLJ but also feel the Jedi books are weird. Why weren't they Jedi Holocrons? Holocrons are even like little Ai holograms right? You could have Luke's Holocron be in the next film teaching Rey, and have that whole emotional part where she tries to ask it something personal or beyond its AI and it's like a harsh reminder he's dead and she is basically on her own. Okay now I'm writing fanfic I'll stop)

cosmically_cosmic fucked around with this message at 16:18 on Apr 29, 2018

Arcsquad12
Mar 4, 2013

I Love Satan


The texts are primordial, holocrons are old but they're still an identifiable piece of texhnology used even beyond the Jedi.

Mr Phillby
Apr 8, 2009

~TRAVIS~

Ofc Rey would take the books, she's essentially a Star Wars fangirl.

It also serves to remind the viewer that despite the future of the series moving away from the original trilogy the old stuff is still valued and important. It's less about burning it down and more about moving on IMO.

cosmically_cosmic
Dec 26, 2015


Arcsquad12 posted:

The texts are primordial, holocrons are old but they're still an identifiable piece of texhnology used even beyond the Jedi.

I guess that is true, but if they're actual like, relics from a pre-space era won't they be completely unreadable? They'd be in like space double ancient mega latin.

Unless they got translated into galactic basic?

OKAY WAIT

NOW I get why the page turners line gets me so bad.


IF the Jedi books are ancient relics, is Yoda just by chance a fan of unrelated trashy fiction from the ancient pre-space era? And that's why he knows the term 'page turner' in a world where there are only about five books and they're ancient antiques?'

Like what other books are there that you prefer Yoda? 'As good as the Thrawn trilogy, it was not!'

Leal
Oct 2, 2009

If you LP what I LP
And if you work retail like I work retail
You would also scream like I scream


Forget these star wars movies when are they going to start making good star wars games again? Or any. EA has had the exclusivity for a few years and we have to show for it is 2 crappy shooters.

Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012

Hi, Everybody!


cosmically_cosmic posted:

I guess that is true, but if they're actual like, relics from a pre-space era won't they be completely unreadable? They'd be in like space double ancient mega latin.

Just for the sake of argument, you could probably handwave that with using the Force to intuit what the pages mean.



cosmically_cosmic posted:

OKAY WAIT

NOW I get why the page turners line gets me so bad.


IF the Jedi books are ancient relics, is Yoda just by chance a fan of unrelated trashy fiction from the ancient pre-space era? And that's why he knows the term 'page turner' in a world where there are only about five books and they're ancient antiques?'

Like what other books are there that you prefer Yoda? 'As good as the Thrawn trilogy, it was not!'

Yoda's over 900 years old. He's had time to experience all sorts of things.

Groovelord Neato
Dec 6, 2014




Leal posted:

Forget these star wars movies when are they going to start making good star wars games again? Or any. EA has had the exclusivity for a few years and we have to show for it is 2 crappy shooters.

it still grinds my gears they they called the 3rd and 4th battlefront games "battlefront and "battlefront 2".

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012




cosmically_cosmic posted:

I guess that is true, but if they're actual like, relics from a pre-space era won't they be completely unreadable? They'd be in like space double ancient mega latin.

Unless they got translated into galactic basic?

OKAY WAIT

NOW I get why the page turners line gets me so bad.


IF the Jedi books are ancient relics, is Yoda just by chance a fan of unrelated trashy fiction from the ancient pre-space era? And that's why he knows the term 'page turner' in a world where there are only about five books and they're ancient antiques?'

Like what other books are there that you prefer Yoda? 'As good as the Thrawn trilogy, it was not!'

He’s Yoda. He’s incredibly loving old, and he’s seen pretty much everything there is to see. You really think he wouldn’t have run into physical books on some backwater world somewhere? Come to think of it, it wasn’t like there were any working generators on Dagobah - that hut of his was probably 50% girlie magazines and spaceport paperbacks by mass.

Seriously, why are people struggling so hard to wrap their brains around the idea of primitive technology existing in a setting where the Emperor’s finest once got routed by a bunch of teddy bears with pointy sticks?

cosmically_cosmic
Dec 26, 2015


Neddy Seagoon posted:

Yoda's over 900 years old. He's had time to experience all sorts of things.

That's a VERY good point, but then why doesn't Luke turn to him and say 'What the gently caress are you talking about?'


Or maybe because they've been hanging out on that island a lot Luke is used to it, like it's kind of like in Guardians of the galaxy where the earth guy keeps making modern references that none of the aliens understand, but in reverse where this weird alien is making pop culture references that a human doesn't get.

Just picture Luke storming off into his little hut shouting at ghost Yoda 'I don't know what Cheers is!'

Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012

Hi, Everybody!


cosmically_cosmic posted:

That's a VERY good point, but then why doesn't Luke turn to him and say 'What the gently caress are you talking about?'

You mean the man who owns the books in question and has already acknowledged they are not great reading material?

Arcsquad12
Mar 4, 2013

I Love Satan


Groovelord Neato posted:

it still grinds my gears they they called the 3rd and 4th battlefront games "battlefront and "battlefront 2".

5th and 6th battlefront games actually. And Elite Squadrons is one of the best games in the series despite being on PSP. It actually has the space to ground combat promised by the canceled Pandemic and Free Radical battlefront 3 concepts.

Antifa Turkeesian
Aug 20, 2006



Darth Walrus posted:

He’s Yoda. He’s incredibly loving old, and he’s seen pretty much everything there is to see. You really think he wouldn’t have run into physical books on some backwater world somewhere? Come to think of it, it wasn’t like there were any working generators on Dagobah - that hut of his was probably 50% girlie magazines and spaceport paperbacks by mass.

Seriously, why are people struggling so hard to wrap their brains around the idea of primitive technology existing in a setting where the Emperor’s finest once got routed by a bunch of teddy bears with pointy sticks?

It's weird because there has never been a single reference to a book anywhere in the previous seven movies, which span like 45 years. Like, it's jarring to suddenly have books be a part of the lore of these space wizard movies because there's no suggestion that books are even a thing prior to that exchange. The whole rest of the time they just read off computer displays and seemingly just have an oral culture for storytelling.

cosmically_cosmic
Dec 26, 2015


Neddy Seagoon posted:

You mean the man who owns the books in question and has already acknowledged they are not great reading material?

I can't tell if you're like joking along with me or like seriously getting annoyed at this, but Luke's only experience with books is ancient holy texts, would you seriously expect a medieval peasant who has only ever read the bible to know what page turners are as a concept?

And also I said I liked the movie so everyone getting frothed up about this can chill out. I'm only making a joke about Star Wars.

AriadneThread
Feb 17, 2011

The Devil sounds like smoke and honey. We cannot move. It is too beautiful.




yeah, and i bet there's no bathrooms in star wars either since those have never been mentioned

wait, what?

Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012

Hi, Everybody!


business hammocks posted:

It's weird because there has never been a single reference to a book anywhere in the previous seven movies, which span like 45 years. Like, it's jarring to suddenly have books be a part of the lore of these space wizard movies because there's no suggestion that books are even a thing prior to that exchange. The whole rest of the time they just read off computer displays and seemingly just have an oral culture for storytelling.

Holocrons haven't been a thing in the films (or even much of the EU outside the novels and Rebels), so it'd take far too much screentime to bring an audience up to speed on them AND to get the gravity of their nature to stick. A set of old books is a nice simple storytelling tool that the audience will recognize and understand on-sight for what they are; ancient and rare/unique knowledge.

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012




business hammocks posted:

It's weird because there has never been a single reference to a book anywhere in the previous seven movies, which span like 45 years. Like, it's jarring to suddenly have books be a part of the lore of these space wizard movies because there's no suggestion that books are even a thing prior to that exchange. The whole rest of the time they just read off computer displays and seemingly just have an oral culture for storytelling.

C’mon, that’s pretty terminally unimaginative. We’ve seen a tiny fraction of the Star Wars universe, and these are explicitly ancient texts from millennia before the technological advancements that have become ubiquitous in ‘modern’ galactic civilisation. And, again, we’ve seen native tribes who made everything out of wood, stone, and hide. Books are positively high-tech compared to what the Ewoks were using.

Mr Phillby
Apr 8, 2009

~TRAVIS~

Groovelord Neato posted:

it still grinds my gears they they called the 3rd and 4th battlefront games "battlefront and "battlefront 2".
It boils my piss that battlefield 3&4 were both in production until Lucasarts changed it's management and cancelled both projects, utterly destroying Free Radical and dooming the future of their excellent Timesplitters series.

Dabir
Nov 10, 2012


The concept of 'pages' is not unique to physical paper books. You think they don't have ebooks in star wars?

Absurd Alhazred
Mar 27, 2010

I'm the babyliberal, gotta love me!


There was only one real Star Wars movie. Everything else is fanfic.

Antifa Turkeesian
Aug 20, 2006



Absurd Alhazred posted:

There was only one real Star Wars movie. Everything else is fanfic.

The second Ewok Adventure?

cosmically_cosmic
Dec 26, 2015


I love how a joke about a line sounding weird has turned into a serious argument about Star Wars canon lawyering.

Like imagine getting up in the morning and saying to yourself, 'how dare this person make fun of Yoda... PAGES LITERALLY EXIST!'

Groovelord Neato
Dec 6, 2014




business hammocks posted:

The second Ewok Adventure?

clearly it's the droids cartoon.

Absurd Alhazred
Mar 27, 2010

I'm the babyliberal, gotta love me!


Hint: it was originally titled Star Wars.

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a cartoon duck
Sep 5, 2011



Jaws was never my scene and I don't like Star Wars.

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