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Podima
Nov 4, 2009

You've got the Shine
You've got the power

lomarf


Yami Fenrir posted:

Too much time for investigative roles to go to work. But then again, maybe my expectations from a videogame version of mafia are throwing me off. Either way, I believe Sal's claim to have been roadblocked, however I don't quite buy him being a cop at the moment.

Can you unpack this more, please? I'm also not loving the supposition of multiple NKs coming out so flippantly.

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SalTheBard
Jan 26, 2005


I forgot to post my food for USPOL Thanksgiving but that's okay too!




Fallen Rib

Yami Fenrir posted:

Too much time for investigative roles to go to work. But then again, maybe my expectations from a videogame version of mafia are throwing me off. Either way, I believe Sal's claim to have been roadblocked, however I don't quite buy him being a cop at the moment.

Honestly I'm probably either just going to be role blocked or bus driven (if one exists) this entire game. This is really the reason I didn't want to claim, but felt that I had to to get through D1. I guess I get to play Mafia the old fashioned way.

SalTheBard
Jan 26, 2005


I forgot to post my food for USPOL Thanksgiving but that's okay too!




Fallen Rib

Podima posted:

Can you unpack this more, please? I'm also not loving the supposition of multiple NKs coming out so flippantly.

I was also going to point this out but after yesterday my plan is to just lay low, go to work, come home, do some casework.

Yami Fenrir
Jan 25, 2015

Is it I that is insane... or the rest of the world?

Podima posted:

Can you unpack this more, please? I'm also not loving the supposition of multiple NKs coming out so flippantly.

Well, like I said, I come from Throne of Lies, which is basically a videogame version of Mafia. (Their gimmick is that every game has a Cult :v:) I am basing it on that game's setup, which is 16 players with 2 scum and one SK, as well as the one I've seen in the only other game I have played (16 players, 3 scum, 1 SK).

From a balance perspective, having so many people does not make sense to me. With 16 people you either have so many scum and one night kill that the game takes forever, or a less scum and some other method of having a nightkill, usually SK.

Given that things might prevent kills like doctors, bodyguards, jails, and whatnot, a single nightkill to kill even 12 people would take a very, very long time. Not to mention having this many days to find scum means that cops, trackers, etc have a lot of chances to whittle down scum. Games like these can run out steam eventually too, and I think an experienced mod considered that.

I am well aware that this setup speculation is scummy and bla bla bla, but that's how I arrived at this point.


Mostly due to Sal's reply to my question. It just feels too simple to me, in a "There, you have my alibi for having no results, now go look at more interesting people!" kind of sense. Compared to how angry he got over bowmore's prodding, this seems strangely uncaring of an reaction about likely being RB'd all game.

I've considered a few possibilities, most of them going off the deep ends (which seems to start to be my gimmick apparently, as seen in Pequod where I came up with a vote poisoner of all things).


Such as: Sal being SK and RB'ed by scum afraid of a cop
Sal being town and RB'ed by scum afraid of a cop
Sal being scum and RBed by town RBer
Sal being town and RBed by town RBer.

I am running off a lot of assumptions here, but I find a cop claim being RBed by a townie somewhat unlikely. Even if suspicious, it would make a lot more sense to give them a day or two to show results, given the way votes on him stopped when he claimed cop. In my mind, it was much more likely that scum RBed Sal (hence me saying I believe the RB'd claim)

The reason why I don't trust Sal at the moment is because I find the transitition from the anger about being prodded by bow so much, to a reponse that feels like "Oh well, I guess I'll be roadblocked forever, meh." to me. It came over more of an excuse than anything to me, a simple alibi as to why to not produce results. (Not to mention I had to ask them for their result for them to come out with that information, but that may very well be a timezone problem). The circumstances around this dialogue just feel very much off to me.

I find Sal additionally suspicious because I feel like there is a second night kill missing, as I explained above, and Sal has been roadblocked. There are, however, plenty of other reasons for this such as the simplest, there simply not being one. I am not going to vote Sal up yet, as it's very likely I may be wrong and honestly, I want to be proven wrong, as cops are useful. A tracker result on Sal would be extremely useful, for obvious reasons.

I may post some opinions on other people later too, but I don't know if I can manage timewise today. I'll definitely post more opinions on people at a later point, but this is what struck out to me the most.

SalTheBard
Jan 26, 2005


I forgot to post my food for USPOL Thanksgiving but that's okay too!




Fallen Rib

I can't really help that I'm going to get roleblocked or whatever so no point in getting mad about it. I also had a really good night sleep last night.

Yami Fenrir
Jan 25, 2015

Is it I that is insane... or the rest of the world?

SalTheBard posted:

I can't really help that I'm going to get roleblocked or whatever so no point in getting mad about it. I also had a really good night sleep last night.

Uh huh. Was there any flavor to your roleblock?

SalTheBard
Jan 26, 2005


I forgot to post my food for USPOL Thanksgiving but that's okay too!




Fallen Rib

Yami Fenrir posted:

Uh huh. Was there any flavor to your roleblock?

I got hit with a black jack and knocked out.

Asiina
Apr 26, 2011

No going back


Grimey Drawer

I believe Sal.

Yami, you are very wrong about basically all of that setup stuff on what is typical, and like I can go into detail but also don't really want to and it won't be particularly useful. Just know that there have been 20+ player games with a single scum team with 5 or more team members, so it's not like that where there's only ever 2-3 scum members.

Anyway, I kinda only skimmed the stuff that happened since I left yesterday. I also had the fleeting thought, like Pod did, that bowmore went so hard on Sal because he was soft counterclaiming, but apparently not.

Yami Fenrir
Jan 25, 2015

Is it I that is insane... or the rest of the world?

Asiina posted:

I believe Sal.

Yami, you are very wrong about basically all of that setup stuff on what is typical, and like I can go into detail but also don't really want to and it won't be particularly useful. Just know that there have been 20+ player games with a single scum team with 5 or more team members, so it's not like that where there's only ever 2-3 scum members.

Anyway, I kinda only skimmed the stuff that happened since I left yesterday. I also had the fleeting thought, like Pod did, that bowmore went so hard on Sal because he was soft counterclaiming, but apparently not.

Hm, I did leave that open as a possibility. However, I still find their change of tone weird.

Also, didn't manage to get opinions on more people up, but I should have the time to do so tomorrow. Sorry bout that.

Yami Fenrir
Jan 25, 2015

Is it I that is insane... or the rest of the world?

So you believe Sal, hmm. Who do you think is scum atm, then? Do you have any reads?

Yami Fenrir
Jan 25, 2015

Is it I that is insane... or the rest of the world?

I still find it strange that you immediately believe someone who got voted up pretty high based on posts you saod you only skimmed over, actually. What does make you trust Sal?

SalTheBard
Jan 26, 2005


I forgot to post my food for USPOL Thanksgiving but that's okay too!




Fallen Rib

Yami Fenrir posted:

Hm, I did leave that open as a possibility. However, I still find their change of tone weird.

Also, didn't manage to get opinions on more people up, but I should have the time to do so tomorrow. Sorry bout that.

You keep talking about my change of tone. Did you see the like 4 times I posted "I don't know why I'm so upset about this?" I had a bad day yesterday, I'm having a good day today. That's literally what it boils down to. I'm actually pretty mortified about my behavior yesterday (especially since it was my Birthday yesterday and I should've been having a good day regardless.)

Yami also you have to know that a lot of us have been playing Mafia together for months (and in some case years). A lot of times there are meta reads that you can't explain.

Max
Nov 30, 2002



FYI I had a fun therapy session and may barely check in this irl day. Sorry.

SalTheBard
Jan 26, 2005


I forgot to post my food for USPOL Thanksgiving but that's okay too!




Fallen Rib

Max posted:

FYI I had a fun therapy session and may barely check in this irl day. Sorry.

All good. Take care of yourself brother!

George Kansas
Sep 1, 2008

preface all my posts with this


I solidified in my last eccogame that I don't have an easy time reading sal. I don't know what it is. Sal you are my kryptonite!!!

My gut is to trust the d1 frustrated cop claim but it is also absolutely conceivable that sal could have faked it as a scum tactic?? that would be a pretty big gamble though.

it's all wifom but since i can never get a good actual read on sal i'm leaning town since idk thats a pretty ballsy fakeclaim in a game with a miller claim?

i dont play mafia enough, im no longer a wizard at this stuff

George Kansas
Sep 1, 2008

preface all my posts with this


for clarification, when i say "faked it as a scum tactic" i'm not just talking the claim, i'm also talking about all the frustration from yesterday, which seems like a big gambit

not inconceivable though, just less likely

CCKeane
Jan 28, 2008

my shit posts don't die, they multiply



I think Ninth was murdered because he was suspicious of AS.

George Kansas
Sep 1, 2008

preface all my posts with this


thats a little too wifomy for me keane but shes still my #1 scumpick. especially after she threw shade at me for being online on discord but not talking when i said i'd be gone last night (even if honest mistake, i thought it was weird)

i'm especially :tinfoil: considering my #2 scumpick is

Moatillata posted:

I think dear soda is town and this gives me hope

CCKeane
Jan 28, 2008

my shit posts don't die, they multiply



BottleKnight posted:

thats a little too wifomy for me keane but shes still my #1 scumpick. especially after she threw shade at me for being online on discord but not talking when i said i'd be gone last night (even if honest mistake, i thought it was weird)

i'm especially :tinfoil: considering my #2 scumpick is

Nah, it's fine.

George Kansas
Sep 1, 2008

preface all my posts with this


CCKeane posted:

Nah, it's fine.

which part is fine, your initial claim or the discord thing

CCKeane
Jan 28, 2008

my shit posts don't die, they multiply



BottleKnight posted:

which part is fine, your initial claim or the discord thing

My assertion.

SalTheBard
Jan 26, 2005


I forgot to post my food for USPOL Thanksgiving but that's okay too!




Fallen Rib

There technically were 2 Night Kills, but the town Vigilante was killed last night.

CCKeane
Jan 28, 2008

my shit posts don't die, they multiply



SalTheBard posted:

There technically were 2 Night Kills, but the town Vigilante was killed last night.

We don't know the mechanics of Ninth's kill, or even if he deigned to use it.

SalTheBard
Jan 26, 2005


I forgot to post my food for USPOL Thanksgiving but that's okay too!




Fallen Rib

CCKeane posted:

We don't know the mechanics of Ninth's kill, or even if he deigned to use it.

Thats an excellent point sorry.

Moatillata
Dec 13, 2006

Maintain.


CCKeane posted:

I think Ninth was murdered because he was suspicious of AS.

I think ninth was murdered bc of his PR

Which is p funny to me

Atomic Soda
Jun 8, 2005

drink this baby

CCKeane posted:

I think Ninth was murdered because he was suspicious of AS.

i agree


BottleKnight posted:

thats a little too wifomy for me keane but shes still my #1 scumpick. especially after she threw shade at me for being online on discord but not talking when i said i'd be gone last night (even if honest mistake, i thought it was weird)

i'm especially :tinfoil: considering my #2 scumpick is

it is true i'm suss of you, but that post was more about do we have enough numbers for a lunch.

why is moat your #2?

Moatillata
Dec 13, 2006

Maintain.


Podima posted:

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3855060&userid=107055

Like I said, the only opinions I see from you are:




You never actually explained why your jokevote on me evolved into a real vote and that continues to bother me. Can you please, in simple words, explain that now?

(You also never explained your town read on ASoda and "ambivalent" read on AA.)

Oh dear sweet pod, I really hope you are scum in this game

I do not like your posturing and you are acting like you don't know me as a poster and also like mafia is performed in a vacuum.

There is a ghost in the machine pod.

Your push against me is perfunctory and mechanical and I do not like it. Also you basically are omgusing me but really packaging it like you are not

Also I have a secret theory that is very :tinfoil: and I don't think would go over well

As for soda, basically I am expecting more caution from her considering her last scum performance (sorry soda) and I'm not seeing it and it satisfies me that she is town atm


AA posts in a way that makes it impossible for me to tell because he so often is wrong (Sorry aa) I like his engagement atm and so I am less inclined to go scum for him

Atomic Soda
Jun 8, 2005

drink this baby

Moatillata posted:


As for soda, basically I am expecting more caution from her considering her last scum performance (sorry soda)


nah its a fair and accurate comment. i've decided to naively press on with playing this game i like regardless.

Moatillata
Dec 13, 2006

Maintain.


Atomic Soda posted:

nah its a fair and accurate comment. i've decided to naively press on with playing this game i like regardless.

:glomp:

Podima
Nov 4, 2009

You've got the Shine
You've got the power

lomarf


SalTheBard posted:

Honestly I'm probably either just going to be role blocked or bus driven (if one exists) this entire game. This is really the reason I didn't want to claim, but felt that I had to to get through D1. I guess I get to play Mafia the old fashioned way.

I am excited to see you do some casework Sal!!

SalTheBard
Jan 26, 2005


I forgot to post my food for USPOL Thanksgiving but that's okay too!




Fallen Rib

Podima posted:

I am excited to see you do some casework Sal!!

Me too. I forgot how much casework SUCKS though.

Podima
Nov 4, 2009

You've got the Shine
You've got the power

lomarf



Thank you for the detailed explanation, that does help. You're not taking into account factors like other killing sources (like the town vig that just flipped) in your setup spec but I get your train of thought.

Podima
Nov 4, 2009

You've got the Shine
You've got the power

lomarf


SalTheBard posted:

I'm actually pretty mortified about my behavior yesterday (especially since it was my Birthday yesterday and I should've been having a good day regardless.)

Happy belated birthday buddy :33:

BottleKnight posted:

I solidified in my last eccogame that I don't have an easy time reading sal. I don't know what it is. Sal you are my kryptonite!!!

My gut is to trust the d1 frustrated cop claim but it is also absolutely conceivable that sal could have faked it as a scum tactic?? that would be a pretty big gamble though.

it's all wifom but since i can never get a good actual read on sal i'm leaning town since idk thats a pretty ballsy fakeclaim in a game with a miller claim?

i dont play mafia enough, im no longer a wizard at this stuff

You know as well as I do that fakeclaiming cop in an eccogame where a miller has claimed is some next level play, I'm not feeling it as a fakeclaim right now and this is a little wishy-washy.

Podima
Nov 4, 2009

You've got the Shine
You've got the power

lomarf


Moatillata posted:

Oh dear sweet pod, I really hope you are scum in this game

I do not like your posturing and you are acting like you don't know me as a poster and also like mafia is performed in a vacuum.

There is a ghost in the machine pod.

Your push against me is perfunctory and mechanical and I do not like it. Also you basically are omgusing me but really packaging it like you are not

Also I have a secret theory that is very :tinfoil: and I don't think would go over well

As for soda, basically I am expecting more caution from her considering her last scum performance (sorry soda) and I'm not seeing it and it satisfies me that she is town atm


AA posts in a way that makes it impossible for me to tell because he so often is wrong (Sorry aa) I like his engagement atm and so I am less inclined to go scum for him

Buddy if you think is posturing from ME you've got another think coming.

ANYWAYS! You explained soda and AA so I am content. You should share your tinfoil theory, I'm curious now.

SalTheBard
Jan 26, 2005


I forgot to post my food for USPOL Thanksgiving but that's okay too!




Fallen Rib

Podima posted:

Happy belated birthday buddy :33:


You know as well as I do that fakeclaiming cop in an eccogame where a miller has claimed is some next level play, I'm not feeling it as a fakeclaim right now and this is a little wishy-washy.

HEY!!! I can do next level plays....sort of....

Yami Fenrir
Jan 25, 2015

Is it I that is insane... or the rest of the world?

SalTheBard posted:

You keep talking about my change of tone. Did you see the like 4 times I posted "I don't know why I'm so upset about this?" I had a bad day yesterday, I'm having a good day today. That's literally what it boils down to. I'm actually pretty mortified about my behavior yesterday (especially since it was my Birthday yesterday and I should've been having a good day regardless.)

Yami also you have to know that a lot of us have been playing Mafia together for months (and in some case years). A lot of times there are meta reads that you can't explain.

Belated Happy Birthday!

Unfortunately I still don't entirely believe that.

The last sentence is also extremely scummy. It boils down to "I guess you'll just have to trust their baseless opinion, lol!" I mean yes, that may be what happened. But it may also not.

I've slept over this, however, and I am going to believe you for now, for another reason; Asiina.

Asiina posted:

I caught up and was also thinking Sal was scummy for his strange callout on Pod that's hedgy:

But I'm also uncomfortable with how fast this bandwagon is forming.

Asiina posted:

I believe Sal.

Yami, you are very wrong about basically all of that setup stuff on what is typical, and like I can go into detail but also don't really want to and it won't be particularly useful. Just know that there have been 20+ player games with a single scum team with 5 or more team members, so it's not like that where there's only ever 2-3 scum members.

Anyway, I kinda only skimmed the stuff that happened since I left yesterday. I also had the fleeting thought, like Pod did, that bowmore went so hard on Sal because he was soft counterclaiming, but apparently not.

I find that a fairly rapid 180.

Not to mention the rest of their posts show no real casework from what I can tell. Most of their posts seem designed to stiffle discussion:

Asiina posted:

That AS "case" on Pod is real bad and doesn't actually say why he's scum at all.

##unvote
##vote AS

Note the lack of explaining WHY it's bad until Atomic Soda responded, 2 hours later.

Asiina posted:

My case is that you don't actually explain why Pod is scum. TNL just said it in many flowery words, but you disagreed with him about making a miller claim, but don't say why that makes him scummy.

You also disagreed with his read of AA's case, when he asked about some confusing wording (which I also got tripped up on and had to re-read to understand, which is why I clarified it for him).

These are things you disagree with Pod about, but why does that make him scum?

What about his tone did you find scummy? How was he fishing?

And then the last post which really pinged me:

Asiina posted:

I believe Sal.

Yami, you are very wrong about basically all of that setup stuff on what is typical, and like I can go into detail but also don't really want to and it won't be particularly useful. Just know that there have been 20+ player games with a single scum team with 5 or more team members, so it's not like that where there's only ever 2-3 scum members.

Anyway, I kinda only skimmed the stuff that happened since I left yesterday. I also had the fleeting thought, like Pod did, that bowmore went so hard on Sal because he was soft counterclaiming, but apparently not.

I believe the trust towards Sal too be too easy. Sal was very suspicious until they claimed Cop, Asiina even said they were scummy but never voted them. All of this makes me think Asiina is scum trying for some town cred defending Sal now should they flip and end up town. As such, I feel comfortable voting for them today.

##unvote

##vote Asiina

My case on AA still stands, but I'd like to collect a bigger sample size of their content before going after them.

SalTheBard
Jan 26, 2005


I forgot to post my food for USPOL Thanksgiving but that's okay too!




Fallen Rib

Yami Fenrir posted:

Belated Happy Birthday!

Unfortunately I still don't entirely believe that.

The last sentence is also extremely scummy. It boils down to "I guess you'll just have to trust their baseless opinion, lol!" I mean yes, that may be what happened. But it may also not.


It's not scummy at all. Let me use a real example:

I played a game very closely with another player named Murmur Twin. Her and I became very close friends throughout the game. In that case she was scum and I was town. The very next game we played together I was scum and she had me begged on Day 1 because she had such a strong meta read. I'm not saying you have to trust the opinion, but just that for some of us we have that level of information on each other.

Yami Fenrir
Jan 25, 2015

Is it I that is insane... or the rest of the world?

SalTheBard posted:

It's not scummy at all. Let me use a real example:

I played a game very closely with another player named Murmur Twin. Her and I became very close friends throughout the game. In that case she was scum and I was town. The very next game we played together I was scum and she had me begged on Day 1 because she had such a strong meta read. I'm not saying you have to trust the opinion, but just that for some of us we have that level of information on each other.

It's the wording of it that pinged me. Plus like, I can accept it as the basis of a scumread. Sure. But as a reason to trust someone with no further explanation it seems flimsy to me.

Either way, like I said, I'll believe you for now. Asiina's more on my radar now.

Podima
Nov 4, 2009

You've got the Shine
You've got the power

lomarf


A lot of folks still need to chime in today with thoughts - deadline's tonight.

:c: The Current Day 2 Votecount :c:

Asiina (1): Yami Fenrir
Moatillata (0): Anomalous Amalgam, -Anomalous Amalgam

Not Voting (12): Anomalous Amalgam, Asiina, Atomic Soda, BottleKnight, CCKeane, IcePhoenix, IllegallySober, Max, Moatillata, Monathin, Podima, SalTheBard


:h: With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to be executed.
:d: The current deadline is May 04th, 2018 at 11 p.m. EDT -- that's in about 13 hours, 6 minutes from this post.

:)

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Max
Nov 30, 2002



FYI I've requested a replacement.

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