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njsykora
Jan 23, 2012

Robots confuse squirrels.




Linus has also promoted crypto mining in the past, his morals are whatever makes him money. Just like most tech youtubers.

Also how the hell does Facebook rebranding Oculus reduce waste?

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The Grumbles
Jun 5, 2006

let the anger flow through your salt beef filling

Pilfered Pallbearers posted:

It’s possible to both cater to a crowd who is interested in/uses high end or frequently upgraded components AND spread the message of e-waste.

Genuinely, using a platform like that to support conservation is actually very successful. Zoos are used as funding to support an enormous amount of animal conservation, as are the fees for hunting licenses and fishing licenses.

I don't think zoos are a good analogy because they aren't also encouraging people to go out and poach endangered species. In fact, the fundamental point of most zoos is to promote conservation. LTT isn't a "look at the cool stuff you can do with discarded PC compnents channel", it's a "lets fetishize the new stuff and why people should continually upgrade" channel. Similarly, overfishing and ocean pollution from commercial fishing massively outweigh any kind of conservation efforts, which are generally coordinated by governments and NGOs and not the fishing industry itself. And even then, I wouldn't say fishing licenses are at all successful in mitigating damage - most of the great pacific garbage patch is waste from commercial fishing.

I would also suspect that in terms of the net environmental damage done by tech consumption at an enthusiast level, e-waste is probably a neglibable part of it all. Really, being environmentally responsible from Linus would mean getting rid of so much of the hype machine aspects of his channel, which would mean fewer views/subs and a smaller business.

SlowBloke posted:

A non-insignificant part of Linus viewer base buys the new parts by selling their old pcs to friends and family, the “turn into a server” is for money bags, esp nowadays where a top end build can reach motorcycle prices.

I hope so!

njsykora posted:

Also how the hell does Facebook rebranding Oculus reduce waste?
Ah sorry I should have been clearer - with that news came the news that you won't need a facebook account to continue to use oculus devices, which apparently makes it less likely they'll become obsolete and unusable, which I guess is true if you ignore all the other ways that modern mobile devices quickly become obsolete and unusable.

The Grumbles fucked around with this message at 12:05 on Oct 30, 2021

Dr. Video Games 0031
Jul 16, 2004



I don't really understand what the deal is here. Are you mad about the concept of tech youtubers in general, or are you mad that someone with a large platform is promoting environmental causes?

If you don't think that being a tech youtuber is inherently a bad thing, and if you don't think that promoting environmental causes is bad, then why would doing both together be bad?

Steve from GamersNexus posted a blog-ish post on their Patreon a couple weeks ago about how he's basically putting all of his personal income into local conservation efforts, with the most recent one being a parcel of land he saved from being turned into a parking lot so he can basically turn it into a park instead. Are you also mad about that?

I'm confused as to what the issue is here.

njsykora
Jan 23, 2012

Robots confuse squirrels.




The Grumbles posted:

Ah sorry I should have been clearer - with that news came the news that you won't need a facebook account to continue to use oculus devices, which apparently makes it less likely they'll become obsolete and unusable, which I guess is true if you ignore all the other ways that modern mobile devices quickly become obsolete and unusable.

I think you need to wait for the implementation of the Meta account before you can say that for sure really, though there certainly are people in Oculus who do want to stop devices becoming useless. Like they've released tools for people to make complete custom firmware now for the Oculus Go now they're not supporting it any more, and I hope that sets the tone for what happens with devices that aren't going to get firmware updates any more. Though even if it doesn't there's stuff like Oculess.

Pilfered Pallbearers
Aug 2, 2007




Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:

I don't really understand what the deal is here. Are you mad about the concept of tech youtubers in general, or are you mad that someone with a large platform is promoting environmental causes?

If you don't think that being a tech youtuber is inherently a bad thing, and if you don't think that promoting environmental causes is bad, then why would doing both together be bad?

Steve from GamersNexus posted a blog-ish post on their Patreon a couple weeks ago about how he's basically putting all of his personal income into local conservation efforts, with the most recent one being a parcel of land he saved from being turned into a parking lot so he can basically turn it into a park instead. Are you also mad about that?

I'm confused as to what the issue is here.

How is GN Steve so loving wholesome? The fact that he doesn’t even mention it in the main channel shows it’s a genuine effort to make some good.

The Grumbles
Jun 5, 2006

let the anger flow through your salt beef filling

Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:

I don't really understand what the deal is here. Are you mad about the concept of tech youtubers in general, or are you mad that someone with a large platform is promoting environmental causes?

If you don't think that being a tech youtuber is inherently a bad thing, and if you don't think that promoting environmental causes is bad, then why would doing both together be bad?

Steve from GamersNexus posted a blog-ish post on their Patreon a couple weeks ago about how he's basically putting all of his personal income into local conservation efforts, with the most recent one being a parcel of land he saved from being turned into a parking lot so he can basically turn it into a park instead. Are you also mad about that?

I'm confused as to what the issue is here.

Hello I am not mad about the concept of tech tubers in general nor am I mad that someone with a large platform is promoting environmental causes please do not try and catch me out with all this "but if you think X how can you think Y" 2006-rear end black and white forums debate hooey. I think you maybe saw blanket statements in a post that was specifically about something that makes me occasionally uncomfortable with how Linus jumps to criticise companies for practices linked to e-waste without looking at how his own business drives demand. Broadly speaking I like Linus and think he's done a lot of things right and responsibly, if not in an environmental context.

I mean tech tubers driving needless tech consumption is obviously true to an extent everywhere, although at that point it becomes a criticism of late capitalism so broad that there's no point getting into all that.

GN specifically is actually a really good example of how to be more responsible about presenting your content in a measured tone. I feel like Steve is more likely to say in his reviews, point blank "you don't need this". The guy just strikes me as super responsible as you can be about all this kind of stuff, so it's great to hear that he's putting so much of his money into conservation. That checks out with my impressions of the dude!

The reason LTT comes off as hypocritical is because all their content is very aggressively and obviously metrics-led above all the other channels, is written and presented in a way that curates and generates as much hype as possible about new stuff (because that gets you the biggest viewer numbers), in a way that both gives them the largest market share but also probably drives tech consumption above and beyond the other channels. So I personally don't think Linus occasionally complaining about e-waste under his breath (which I wouldn't personally describe as "promoting environmental causes") then somehow negates being irresponsible with all that other stuff. Like, if the name of the game for you is driving user engagement at all costs, including the tone, presentation and candour of your content, then you should probably take responsibility for that. If you want your channel to be environmentally friendly, I think you probably have to look more holistically about your core messaging and presentation.

The Grumbles fucked around with this message at 13:26 on Oct 30, 2021

well why not
Feb 9, 2009





Wait until you guys hear about cars.

Begall
Jul 28, 2008


IMO the e waste generated by the viewers of tech YouTubers must be an absolutely tiny part of the overall problem when you consider:

The PC parts promoted are almost always to a standard form factor that can be recycled into other standards-conforming devices. Compare this to the absolute mountain of bullshit e waste that Dell and other OEMs puts out that has no or extremely limited value past their inclusion in the original systems - systems that the audience of tech YouTubers are extremely unlikely to buy.

The audience is also far more likely to understand the value of the parts they have and therefore seek to sell on for someone else to use. Compare this to the buyer of a Dell prebuilt, especially bulk buyers, who must be far more likely to simply throw out complete systems once they reach end of life rather than harvest for value (partly because of the lack of value in doing so as mentioned above).

Koskun
Apr 20, 2004
I worship the ground NinjaPablo walks on

Begall posted:

IMO the e waste generated by the viewers of tech YouTubers must be an absolutely tiny part of the overall problem when you consider:

The PC parts promoted are almost always to a standard form factor that can be recycled into other standards-conforming devices. Compare this to the absolute mountain of bullshit e waste that Dell and other OEMs puts out that has no or extremely limited value past their inclusion in the original systems - systems that the audience of tech YouTubers are extremely unlikely to buy.

The audience is also far more likely to understand the value of the parts they have and therefore seek to sell on for someone else to use. Compare this to the buyer of a Dell prebuilt, especially bulk buyers, who must be far more likely to simply throw out complete systems once they reach end of life rather than harvest for value (partly because of the lack of value in doing so as mentioned above).

To your last point, companies buying dozens, if not hundreds of pre-built systems. How much they are recycled or turned into e-waste I think will depend on a few things. Does the company want to recycle? I would like to think that they do in this day and age. It will also depend on if there is an electronic recycling company in their area.

About an hour south of me there are two e-recyclers. Both of them handle large companies (literal pallets stacked 8' high with towers). They also both will re-sell the systems. After going over them and removing ones that have bad damage/outright broken, they have storefronts that the public are welcome to, where they can pick up laptops, monitors, towers, printers, often TV's, and even cables of all sorts, iphones (usually 5's and 6's, but I saw a few 7's a month or so ago). Just about anything you can think of honestly. The one recycler also works out, as part of their contract with the company they are recycling/reselling for, gets a percentage of the sale of their stuff. Quite often they make money on the deal, though it can take a year or more.

I've bought literally dozens of systems from the one place. They might have a few scuffs on them, but have all been very solid systems. Toss a SSD in them, maybe double the memory (they usually had 8 gig and a platter drive), and they have all been very dependable systems. I've done this for my parents, aunt, a rural township to upgrade all their systems, my kid, and a few friends. Plus the prices are maybe 20-25% what the stuff was new.

Laptops usually, the batteries aren't the greatest. Monitors I tend to stay away from, as their backlights are generally very dim.

Then when it was time to upgrade, I take them back to the place I got it from, they recycle them for free, and just get a "new" one.

Koskun fucked around with this message at 19:30 on Oct 31, 2021

Wistful of Dollars
Aug 25, 2009



well why not posted:

Wait until you guys hear about cars.

m-Mod?>!!?!

njsykora
Jan 23, 2012

Robots confuse squirrels.




Tech Jesus reviews a Dell from 2008. "This is the best built prebuilt we've reviewed all year."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtaHNUmQ7Mk

Thanks Ants
May 21, 2004

#essereFerrari




I think I had one of those

FuturePastNow
May 19, 2014




My dad still has one of those

Kia Soul Enthusias
May 9, 2004

zoom-zoom


Toilet Rascal

njsykora posted:

Tech Jesus reviews a Dell from 2008. "This is the best built prebuilt we've reviewed all year."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtaHNUmQ7Mk

Have they reviewed a modern Dell workstation / business PC? The Vostro was a workstation build. Or compare it to a consumer build from that era? I seem to recall having a BTX Dell from slightly before that era and liking it but my memory isn't super sharp on that.

CoolCab
Apr 17, 2005

glem


dell's business stuff has always been more solid than their gaming garbage, mostly because they apply way too many lovely windows box solutions to extremely spicy components.

cage-free egghead
Mar 8, 2004


Charles posted:

Have they reviewed a modern Dell workstation / business PC? The Vostro was a workstation build. Or compare it to a consumer build from that era? I seem to recall having a BTX Dell from slightly before that era and liking it but my memory isn't super sharp on that.

I believe the Inspiron, Demension, and early XPS mdoels used BTX. Vostro's basically were rebranded Dimension and Inspiron PCs. Precision was the actual workstation desktop and laptop line and Latitudes the business laptop segment.

Kia Soul Enthusias
May 9, 2004

zoom-zoom


Toilet Rascal

I looked and BTX was canceled Sept 2006 so that system must have been even older. But I'm just imagining maybe their business line is designed to be more servicable?

buffbus
Nov 19, 2012


The main business lines are intended to be serviceable with consistent components used throughout the life of the model. Vostro were mostly lower end consumer stuff which was sold as a lower cost alternative for small businesses which didn't need to keep hardware consistent.

Adolf Glitter
Aug 13, 2016





First time I saw a non standard pc was a dell, circa 2005. Motherboard and psu were both weird poo poo.
It was a home user desktop. I saw a few dell business ones before and after that were totally standard, that's why I was baffled with the ahem, bespoke nature of the cheapo home box.

FuturePastNow
May 19, 2014




Charles posted:

Have they reviewed a modern Dell workstation / business PC? The Vostro was a workstation build. Or compare it to a consumer build from that era? I seem to recall having a BTX Dell from slightly before that era and liking it but my memory isn't super sharp on that.

That Vostro is 100% identical to the cheap rear end Inspiron 530 sold at the same time (except color, black vs white).

Kia Soul Enthusias
May 9, 2004

zoom-zoom


Toilet Rascal

FuturePastNow posted:

That Vostro is 100% identical to the cheap rear end Inspiron 530 sold at the same time (except color, black vs white).

OK, I was just curious if it's an apples to apples comparison, so to speak. I have no doubt that Dell sucks obviously

FuturePastNow
May 19, 2014




I just have too much experience with those particular models of shitbox Dell.

Trivia: the Inspiron 530 / Vostro 400 that came with a Core 2 Duo cannot be upgraded to a Core 2 Quad (like the one Steve had) because their motherboard physically lacks a VRM phase the quad needs (the mobos are otherwise identical). So don't think for a moment that Dell was ever not cheap.

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009



Charles posted:

Have they reviewed a modern Dell workstation / business PC? The Vostro was a workstation build. Or compare it to a consumer build from that era? I seem to recall having a BTX Dell from slightly before that era and liking it but my memory isn't super sharp on that.
I have an Ivy Bridge era Optiplex, it looks identical to the machine they reviewed except the PSU had a non-standard connector and I had to get an adapter from eBay when I replaced it.

E: Linus reviews an Asus prebuilt system too: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BKVt0w7ZYeU

mobby_6kl fucked around with this message at 08:17 on Nov 3, 2021

Dr. Video Games 0031
Jul 16, 2004



mobby_6kl posted:

E: Linus reviews an Asus prebuilt system too: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BKVt0w7ZYeU

I don't fully agree with this one. The issue that led them to a misleading conclusion is that they compared the canadian retail price of the prebuilt (converted to USD) with the US retail prices of its components. The problem with this should be obvious to anyone familiar with canadian and US pricing (as I would expect LTT to be). The retail price of that exact same prebuilt is $1800 in the US, not $2200, which is the price they used for their comparison. Likewise, the parts of the individual components would be higher if they used canadian retail pricing for those. Either way, the end result is that the cost of the prebuilt is cheaper than the cost of the individual prices of the components when using scalper prices for GPUs. If you're at the point where you're considering buying a gpu from a scalper, it is absolutely worth considering a prebuilt instead and fixing it up if necessary.

Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 10:19 on Nov 3, 2021

Pilfered Pallbearers
Aug 2, 2007




Oh no way, you’re telling me Linus did a half baked lovely version of what Steve did because those videos are popular?

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009



I should've expected that by now I guess!

Shipon
Nov 7, 2005


Pilfered Pallbearers posted:

How is GN Steve so loving wholesome? The fact that he doesn’t even mention it in the main channel shows it’s a genuine effort to make some good.

They don't nickname him Tech Jesus for nothing!

CoolCab
Apr 17, 2005

glem


iirc he got into the whole youtube world explicitly to provide for him and his mom, which is also very sweet. i think he's just kind of punk nice?

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010




Lipstick Apathy

I was in a Zoom call for work when my boss says "hey are you using the GN logo as your virtual background?" and I confirm that yes I am and he starts gushing about how he's a long-time fan of the channel and he takes his webcam and pans it around to show that he's on a liquid-cooled 5800X but he's still on a 1080Ti because he can't get any video cards at a decent price

was sort of cool how I maanged to build more of a personal rapport with someone that way

Fame Douglas
Nov 20, 2013

by Fluffdaddy


I like watching Gamers Nexus because he doesn't yell at me, the viewer and doesn't do clickbait. Its just pleasant.

Adolf Glitter
Aug 13, 2016





Fame Douglas posted:

I like watching Gamers Nexus because he doesn't yell at me, the viewer and doesn't do clickbait. Its just pleasant.

Same. It's just about the only one doing current tech that I still watch. I like Digital Foundry for the software side and they are nice and chill compared to 90% of anything even game adjacent. DF do paid stuff though, but at least they are totally upfront about it

The Grumbles
Jun 5, 2006

let the anger flow through your salt beef filling

GN Steve has chill dude at a house party queuing good music and answering questions about his cybernetics degree between blunt hits energy

Digital Foundry have secondary school IT department divorced dads complaining about the school's choice of routers energy

I like them both for both reasons

Pilfered Pallbearers
Aug 2, 2007




Is GN in the new office? The 12900 review is in a very obviously different space.

njsykora
Jan 23, 2012

Robots confuse squirrels.




Yes, you can tell because of the extended bit at the start of the video where he talks about being in the new office.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

I only accept Forgotten Realms lore that fits my personal headcanon, or the vaulted and unimpeachable works of my waifu, Ed Greenwood
:swoon:


Fame Douglas posted:

I like watching Gamers Nexus because he doesn't yell at me, the viewer and doesn't do clickbait. Its just pleasant.

I mean the video thumbnails are sometimes pretty clickbaity

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhI9tLOg-6I

but steve likely does it for the same reason everyone else does, to get clicks, and then he follows up with actual good content not just 10 worst cpus ever (YOU'RE USING ONE RIGHT NOW)

also he has yelled at the viewer a lot, come on, it's just the tired exasperation of "no we don't hate your gaming console/your fandom/please let us just actually test things"

JuffoWup
Mar 28, 2012


Only yelling I can think of more recently was directly at nzxt and gigabyte. Outside there was the exasperation in his follow up about correct aio radiator orientation.

Death On Toast
Aug 2, 2006
The better half of the Brothers Douche.

Arivia posted:

I mean the video thumbnails are sometimes pretty clickbaity

GN is definitely stylistically aping all the clickbait thumbnails of the world. That said, if the combination of the title and thumbnail clearly states the summation of the content piece without having to click on it, I don't think it can accurately be described as clickbait. So he's pretty much trolling the very concept of clickbait, which I think it totally rad.

CBD Corndog
Jun 21, 2009





JuffoWup posted:

Only yelling I can think of more recently was directly at nzxt and gigabyte. Outside there was the exasperation in his follow up about correct aio radiator orientation.

He was yelling on Twitter a while ago when he was testing PS5 and Series X thermals. The console crowd is built different and they saw this as a personal attack against Their Brand

Chevy Slyme
May 2, 2004

We're Gonna Run.

We're Gonna Crawl.

Kick Down Every Wall.


Death On Toast posted:

GN is definitely stylistically aping all the clickbait thumbnails of the world. That said, if the combination of the title and thumbnail clearly states the summation of the content piece without having to click on it, I don't think it can accurately be described as clickbait. So he's pretty much trolling the very concept of clickbait, which I think it totally rad.

RIP Deadspin, but I come back to this extremely salient piece all the time; https://deadspin.com/shut-up-about-clickbait-1551902024

quote:

Used as an epithet, the word "clickbait" presents a tautology as a criticism. You published something, and want people to read it, too.

Taken at face value, it's less than meaningless—it's self-negating. It's obscurantist, senselessly treating journalism as if the high modernist values of contingency and complexity were journalism's own. It's moralistic, proposing a false binary between stories that serve the public interest and those cynically presented just because people will read them. It's suspicious, hostile, and patronizing. It confuses decorum with integrity.

In theory, it's a term for something without inherent merit, published principally for the purpose of tricking people into reading it. In practice, it's something else.

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Warmachine
Jan 30, 2012





SpicyPete posted:

He was yelling on Twitter a while ago when he was testing PS5 and Series X thermals. The console crowd is built different and they saw this as a personal attack against Their Brand

I have a hard time faulting for someone for yelling at unruly man-children.

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