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Kia Soul Enthusias
May 9, 2004

zoom-zoom


Toilet Rascal

When I first saw Anthony I was like "this is somebody I'd want to hang out with IRL"

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njsykora
Jan 23, 2012

Robots confuse squirrels.




GN office moving video was great.

"If anyone wants Linus' underwear..."


"I don't think he wore it."


"I don't get it either."

SalTheBard
Jan 26, 2005


I forgot to post my food for USPOL Thanksgiving but that's okay too!




Fallen Rib

Charles posted:

When I first saw Anthony I was like "this is somebody I'd want to hang out with IRL"

I like Anthony too. His $5k upgrade was really awesome.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCUrphpzEqY

repiv
Aug 13, 2009



:sickos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vYDeXpVTvs

TheFluff
Dec 13, 2006

FRIENDS, LISTEN TO ME
I AM A SEAGULL
OF WEALTH AND TASTE



This is awesome and industrial testing equipment owns, but now I'm really curious why they've covered up what is presumably the manufacturer branding and model numbers on the thing.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

I only accept Forgotten Realms lore that fits my personal headcanon, or the vaulted and unimpeachable works of my waifu, Ed Greenwood
:swoon:


TheFluff posted:

This is awesome and industrial testing equipment owns, but now I'm really curious why they've covered up what is presumably the manufacturer branding and model numbers on the thing.

I think it’s more likely configuration and personally identifying information. Something Steve has mentioned a few times and that’s gradually becoming more and more obvious is that GN is taking some very important steps from being a tech news media outlet to an actually accredited and legally rigorous testing laboratory. So they have in the new office an entire bulletin board of conformance testing reports for their equipment, they have published testing methodologies and trained, expert employees (the engineers) for the really intense testing.

It got hinted at around the Gigabyte PSU fiasco and was borne out when they got the recall started for the NZXT riser cables - GN is now amassing serious enough data that they can start making actual legal claims as to performance and safety. In turn, this means that manufacturers can start threatening them when GN causes actual damage to those companies - and Steve has not been saying it explicitly but they are prepared to back up their work in courts of law.

And I don’t mean MSI leaning on Hardware Unboxed levels of manufacturer interference, but actual lawsuits. GN needs to be able to document every part of their testing if it gets to that point, hence the incredible effort, money, and time spent on doing it right.

So blocking off the fan tester info panels is a way to protect their testing info, suppliers, etc.

K8.0
Feb 26, 2004

Her Majesty's 56th Regiment of Foot

There's no way Steve is so stupid that his business plan is "get sued into oblivion by hardware manufacturers and also be 2 weeks late with every review ever."

No one PLANS to get sued unless they're trying to generate some outrage crowdfunding parachute. That's definitely not GN's plan.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

I only accept Forgotten Realms lore that fits my personal headcanon, or the vaulted and unimpeachable works of my waifu, Ed Greenwood
:swoon:


K8.0 posted:

There's no way Steve is so stupid that his business plan is "get sued into oblivion by hardware manufacturers and also be 2 weeks late with every review ever."

No one PLANS to get sued unless they're trying to generate some outrage crowdfunding parachute. That's definitely not GN's plan.

No, I don’t think Steve’s business plan is to get sued. Steve’s business plan is to provide scientifically rigorous, detailed and informative hardware journalism to consumers. Unfortunately, companies that do do that kind of thing often get sued by manufacturers who are unhappy when reviewers call out issues with their products.

If a company can demonstrate that a review cost them business (such as Gigabyte or NZXT), that is grounds for a defamation lawsuit, same as you hear people getting sued over negative Yelp reviews. When GN claims that a product is bad or defective as a legal defense, they must be able to prove that legally. GN is setting themselves up so that they can legally defend themselves if they are sued. Not that they want to be sued but they are making sure they do things right so they are hopefully safe if they are sued.

Steve has proven himself to be a careful, forward thinking, pragmatic person at least as far as GN goes. He and his staff are working to keep the company/brand/etc safe and viable so that it doesn’t get destroyed when someone goes “you said my fans were bad” (which is what they say they’re going to be testing on the new fan tester).

njsykora
Jan 23, 2012

Robots confuse squirrels.




It helps that GN has a history of calling out companies for lovely marketing, so they're not really changing their approach. Just expanding it so there's the potential for companies that haven't previously felt The Wrath Of Steve to end up in the firing line for the first time.

repiv
Aug 13, 2009



TheFluff posted:

This is awesome and industrial testing equipment owns, but now I'm really curious why they've covered up what is presumably the manufacturer branding and model numbers on the thing.

It didn't take long for people to identify it anyway

http://www.longwin.com/english/product/9266.html

Subjunctive
Sep 12, 2006

✨sparkle and shine✨



It may be related to the manufacturer having restrictions on how their branding can be used, but it’s almost certainly not to keep anyone who really cares from identifying the device.

Pilfered Pallbearers
Aug 2, 2007




My guess is SN = config codes. And when they say “custom built” they probably just mean not factory default, with specific picked configs available to everyone.

Steve has talked pretty frequently about concerns regarding the more shady manufacturers sending better performing review samples than retail stock. My guess is they have concerns if a fan manufacturer knows their specific configuration, they’ll send review samples that will perform favorably for it.

After all only GN really has this, so there’s huge incentive to get good marks from a review by them. There’s no comparative data.

K8.0
Feb 26, 2004

Her Majesty's 56th Regiment of Foot

I can think of a few other possibilities as well. One is that GN may not be the actual purchaser from OE and they want to hide whoever acted as a proxy. Another, more likely possibility is that the serial is the key that gets you in the support door, and they don't want anyone harassing the manufacturer/otherwise causing trouble.

Dr. Video Games 0031
Jul 16, 2004



Arivia posted:

No, I don’t think Steve’s business plan is to get sued. Steve’s business plan is to provide scientifically rigorous, detailed and informative hardware journalism to consumers. Unfortunately, companies that do do that kind of thing often get sued by manufacturers who are unhappy when reviewers call out issues with their products.

If a company can demonstrate that a review cost them business (such as Gigabyte or NZXT), that is grounds for a defamation lawsuit, same as you hear people getting sued over negative Yelp reviews. When GN claims that a product is bad or defective as a legal defense, they must be able to prove that legally. GN is setting themselves up so that they can legally defend themselves if they are sued. Not that they want to be sued but they are making sure they do things right so they are hopefully safe if they are sued.

Steve has proven himself to be a careful, forward thinking, pragmatic person at least as far as GN goes. He and his staff are working to keep the company/brand/etc safe and viable so that it doesn’t get destroyed when someone goes “you said my fans were bad” (which is what they say they’re going to be testing on the new fan tester).

Is this common? I can't seem to recall a lawsuit of this sort ever popping up in America. If it has, I have a hard time believing that it's commonplace. And in any case, I have no idea how this is meant to protect them during a lawsuit. They would most likely have to reveal most of this information during one anyway. If anything, it would hurt them by hiding this information. They would need to prove that their data is legitimate, and they'd do so by proving that their testing equipment and procedures are legitimate.

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


Subjunctive posted:

It may be related to the manufacturer having restrictions on how their branding can be used, but it’s almost certainly not to keep anyone who really cares from identifying the device.

I could swear I've read something, from some other tech site long ago, that some makers of industrial test equipment don't even particularly like to sell stuff to reviewers. They sell dozens or hundreds of units to industry companies and one to a reviewer. One relationship is very important, one isn't. And does SunMoon really want to get calls from Gigabyte asking why Steve's unit is blowing up their PSUs when they work just fine with the factory testers?

So GN may even have agreed not to identify the test equipment as a condition of buying it, because LongWin wants the fig-leaf to say "not our problem".


Like 15 years ago TR made their own PSU DC load tester, with the help of an E.E. reader of the site. IDK if that was due to the difficulty of acquiring a professional load tester at the time or just the expense.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

I only accept Forgotten Realms lore that fits my personal headcanon, or the vaulted and unimpeachable works of my waifu, Ed Greenwood
:swoon:


Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:

Is this common? I can't seem to recall a lawsuit of this sort ever popping up in America. If it has, I have a hard time believing that it's commonplace. And in any case, I have no idea how this is meant to protect them during a lawsuit. They would most likely have to reveal most of this information during one anyway. If anything, it would hurt them by hiding this information. They would need to prove that their data is legitimate, and they'd do so by proving that their testing equipment and procedures are legitimate.

Here’s one out of many a quick google turned up https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzuki_Motor_Corp._v._Consumers_Union_of_the_U.S.,_Inc.

Pilfered Pallbearers
Aug 2, 2007




Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:

Is this common? I can't seem to recall a lawsuit of this sort ever popping up in America. If it has, I have a hard time believing that it's commonplace. And in any case, I have no idea how this is meant to protect them during a lawsuit. They would most likely have to reveal most of this information during one anyway. If anything, it would hurt them by hiding this information. They would need to prove that their data is legitimate, and they'd do so by proving that their testing equipment and procedures are legitimate.

Not to validate the other posters point because I don’t agree with it, but I don’t think it is common for lawsuits to actually reach litigation stages.

What I do think is common is company X sending a certified letter to reviewer Y saying “retract these baseless claims or we’ll sue the gently caress outta you”, which is something we would never see.

eviltastic
Feb 8, 2004



Fan of Britches

Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:

Is this common? I can't seem to recall a lawsuit of this sort ever popping up in America. If it has, I have a hard time believing that it's commonplace. And in any case, I have no idea how this is meant to protect them during a lawsuit. They would most likely have to reveal most of this information during one anyway. If anything, it would hurt them by hiding this information. They would need to prove that their data is legitimate, and they'd do so by proving that their testing equipment and procedures are legitimate.

Yes, they are common enough that many jurisdictions in the US have adopted laws specifically meant to hamstring that kind of suit.

https://www.popehat.com/2012/06/07/why-yes-i-am-into-slapping/

Assuming they’re in a jurisdiction with such protections, no, they wouldn’t be going through typical civil discovery process or carry such a burden of proof.

(e: since that article is about California - this isn’t a red state / blue state thing. There are very deep red states with anti-slapp statutes.)

eviltastic fucked around with this message at 14:31 on Dec 21, 2021

Dr. Video Games 0031
Jul 16, 2004



Gamers Nexus is auctioning off one of their exploded gigabyte power supplies signed by Steve and Patrick Stone in support of an e-waste recycling organization: https://www.ebay.com/itm/324958862408

Video about their e-waste disposal/recycling and also a tour of the the beneficiary of the above charity auction:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6LM_gNdG9c

Wistful of Dollars
Aug 25, 2009



GN's Patrick become the (un)official disaster investigator pleases me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rMy8GcFwcs

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!

Eh, this is kind of dumb. If they feel the need to pry this thing open and do those weird experiments on video, at least hook up a bunch of multimeters and maybe current clamps at key points in the part you suspect to be troublesome. Good multimeters have resistances of 10MOhm and more, they do gently caress all in the circuit, and current clamps don't affect anything either. I mean, what does waiting for a cap to explode do exactly?

Dr. Video Games 0031
Jul 16, 2004



Yeah, I don't know what the point of that video was, exactly. They just stare at some circuit boards for a while waiting for something to happen, and nothing does. At this point, you'd think they'd go "well, this video's a wash" and try to approach it from another angle, but they just put the video of nothing happening up with no firm conclusions other than "dunno, guess some monitors just shipped defective?" I was hoping for an actual investigation on the scale of the Gigabyte PSUs.

JuffoWup
Mar 28, 2012


Meanwhile, another fire problem happened. Jayztwocents covered it yesterday and and then followed up on it today. But since he openly admits to just rehashing buildzoid, I'll just link buildzoid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VkO4wiEAY4

TLDR: Asus Maximum Z690 Hero motherboards are having a problem that can either be a straight up fire or just a failure to post with the code reading no memory. Buildzoid notes that in some that haven't exploded like jayz' board, there is a cap placed in a different orientation to the ones that exploded. As these things are polarity locked, it is a bad idea to have them installed in reverse which appears to be the case for those that failed. Fun stuff.

Including the monitor, we have most of the bones for a true fire hazard pc for the year I think. Between the evga 3090s in new world, the nzxt riser cable, the smoking monitors that gn couldn't recreate, gigabyte's exploding power supplies, and now an asus motherboard. Just need some ram and nvme drive to finish out the year properly. Maybe even a cpu for comedy.

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!

It seems to be a zener diode used for voltage clamping. Of course the wrong way around, it doesn't really do that.

I guess either someone at the manufacturing site put a reel the wrong way around into the pick-and-place, or the supplier hosed it up and loaded the reel wrong. Either way, considering the component size and the size of reels, if it didn't get noticed, there's probably a four digit batch of boards that went out this way.

JuffoWup
Mar 28, 2012


Combat Pretzel posted:

It seems to be a zener diode used for voltage clamping. Of course the wrong way around, it doesn't really do that.

I guess either someone at the manufacturing site put a reel the wrong way around into the pick-and-place, or the supplier hosed it up and loaded the reel wrong. Either way, considering the component size and the size of reels, if it didn't get noticed, there's probably a four digit batch of boards that went out this way.

Several comments are saying you can't put the reels in the wrong way because the chips would be upside down. What can happen is the supplier had the orientation in reverse to what it was initially and no one up dated the machine to take that into account. Again though, there are optical scanners after each step that should have identified it. Considering the problem isn't as wide spread, there is another option. The boards where the chips are flipped may in fact to be hand placed ones. Where the chip was picked up and spun off the grabber and so the board was rejected. But the person placing it by hand didn't check orientation and thus you have this batch of boards where things are not so peachy. It would also explain to some degree the changes in supplier parts as well along with the picker qc check missing it.

Edit: Reread and noticed you said supplier. So woopsie on that part. Still interesting. You can also see a comment from eevblog on there as well pointing out that it can't be a revision changing their orientation because all the other components would be moved around as well.

Pretty interesting seeing the several tech tube channels kind of getting together and answering it like this. In Jayz' video, he says that if you have one of the boards where it is reversed like that, just call in an rma now which is a good recommendation.

JuffoWup fucked around with this message at 22:48 on Dec 28, 2021

CBD Corndog
Jun 21, 2009





JuffoWup posted:

Including the monitor, we have most of the bones for a true fire hazard pc for the year I think. Between the evga 3090s in new world, the nzxt riser cable, the smoking monitors that gn couldn't recreate, gigabyte's exploding power supplies, and now an asus motherboard. Just need some ram and nvme drive to finish out the year properly. Maybe even a cpu for comedy.

Ask, and ye shall receive:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHhUtAOmGKc

Charles Leclerc
Jul 22, 2014

SUCCHIAMI IL MIO CAZZO DA DIETRO, RANA RAGAZZO



2022 FIA Formula 1 WDC


idk if it got posted yet, but jay's ability to make incredibly poo poo takes is really impressive

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgPidlmMPfA

don't actually watch it because he's basically a facebook aunt, but the jist is 'programmers are lazy for using code libraries and should code everything from scratch' lol

JuffoWup
Mar 28, 2012


Theophany posted:

idk if it got posted yet, but jay's ability to make incredibly poo poo takes is really impressive

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgPidlmMPfA

don't actually watch it because he's basically a facebook aunt, but the jist is 'programmers are lazy for using code libraries and should code everything from scratch' lol

I had the impression he was just saying programmers shouldn't be just whole sale taking libraries and using them without understanding the scope of what they can do. And as such, limit the scope the library can do when used. Not just wholesale banning of these libraries.

GutBomb
Jun 15, 2005

Dude?


JuffoWup posted:

I had the impression he was just saying programmers shouldn't be just whole sale taking libraries and using them without understanding the scope of what they can do. And as such, limit the scope the library can do when used. Not just wholesale banning of these libraries.

I just watched it. He has a fundamental misunderstanding about how libraries are used by developers. He mentions at the end taking code and adding it to your project without modifying it for your specific situation is lazy but that’s not how using libraries even works. He’s thinking of it from a “code snippets” point of view which it certainly is not. It’s hard to describe the concept of libraries to non-devs and when you do try to explain it when you’re not even a dev yourself you’re going to say some wrong and dumb poo poo.

Also some of his smaller takes in the whole thing are not very well informed opinions. Java is not used in “everything”. Most things running on an average end user’s computer is not using Java. This is primarily a web server problem and anything else are weird edge cases. Minecraft being a game that runs on an end user machine is an exception, because it’s one of very few widely used desktop Java apps.

The Log4j issue is huge and real, but not something the average jayz2cents viewer needs to be “worried” about from a “keep your local machine updated and patched” perspective.

GutBomb fucked around with this message at 13:08 on Jan 2, 2022

CoolCab
Apr 17, 2005

glem


he ran out of ideas having done a marathon upload-a-day in both october and december this year, that's it lol

Kerbtree
Sep 8, 2008

BAD FALCON!
LAZY!


Yeah, but every android device is Java. It’s on blu ray players too iirc

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


GutBomb posted:

I just watched it. He has a fundamental misunderstanding about how libraries are used by developers. He mentions at the end taking code and adding it to your project without modifying it for your specific situation is lazy but that’s not how using libraries even works. He’s thinking of it from a “code snippets” point of view which it certainly is not. It’s hard to describe the concept of libraries to non-devs and when you do try to explain it when you’re not even a dev yourself you’re going to say some wrong and dumb poo poo.

Code is code. Libraries are a very organized and structured way to have reusable code, but there's not a fundamental difference between using a library and copy-pasting all of stdio into your main c file. All of this structure and whatnot is made for the humans, not the machine. (Practical difference that shared libraries can be updated independently, but until the update happens a vulnerable library is a vulnerable program.)

I didn't bother watching it, so I don't know if he actually says "don't use libraries". If so that's obviously wrong. As is the idea of modifying the library to fit your situation. But for a car mechanic and PC builder, he's right about the general case: there is a lot of really shoddy development and the over-reliance on unaudited libraries is a Problem. We had plenty of wakeup calls with all the NPM vulnerabilities and weirdness the past couple years.


GutBomb posted:

The Log4j issue is huge and real, but not something the average jayz2cents viewer needs to be “worried” about from a “keep your local machine updated and patched” perspective.

Yeah here I agree. Jay making a poorly-researched video about it seems pointless, as Jay's viewers aren't the people who need to hear it. But maybe one teen PC builder will grow up to be a coder and say "maybe I shouldn't start every project by scouring NPM to find the max possible packages I can glue together".

kliras
Mar 27, 2021


He's done a decent number of stuff dialled to 11, and at this point, he's probably been wrong or misleading more often than not. It just feels like he's struggling to figure out a way to make tech videos at a time where interest in PC building is at an all-time low, because people are mad about not being able to get GPUs and other supply-constrained components.

Jay should lean more into the day-in-the-life stuff he's pretty good at making, because it's getting a little out of hand with these videos, and then other YouTubers have to spend time clarifying what the hell he meant.

CoolCab
Apr 17, 2005

glem


oh i anticipate the daily-uploads strategy is in part in response to LTT and stuff and in part because it works. talking head videos where he more or less makes a forum post in front of a camera are cheap and people watch them, there's a reason that six out of his last ten videos follow the format. :shrug:

Subjunctive
Sep 12, 2006

✨sparkle and shine✨



Kerbtree posted:

Yeah, but every android device is Java. It’s on blu ray players too iirc

Android doesn’t run Java, it just uses the Java toolchain for development.

avoid doorways
Jun 6, 2010

'twas brillig


Gun Saliva

Klyith posted:


I didn't bother watching it, so I don't know if he actually says "don't use libraries". If so that's obviously wrong. As is the idea of modifying the library to fit your situation. But for a car mechanic and PC builder, he's right about the general case: there is a lot of really shoddy development and the over-reliance on unaudited libraries is a Problem. We had plenty of wakeup calls with all the NPM vulnerabilities and weirdness the past couple years.

A two decade old library maintained by one of the biggest open source organisations isn’t quite the same thing as leftpad.

The wake up call is that these cornerstone libraries aren’t as well maintained as everyone assumes. The parallel is with OpenSSL/Heartbleed not NPM. But this isn’t going to mean anything to Jay’s audience.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010




Lipstick Apathy

I'm sure an edge case exists but I can't imagine log4j ever becoming relevant to anyone whose main use for their desktop is gaming and posting

Like, sure you'd interact with a website where it matters, but why would you ever patch it yourself

Subjunctive
Sep 12, 2006

✨sparkle and shine✨



gradenko_2000 posted:

I'm sure an edge case exists but I can't imagine log4j ever becoming relevant to anyone whose main use for their desktop is gaming and posting

Like, sure you'd interact with a website where it matters, but why would you ever patch it yourself

Other than Minecraft, in which I think the modern discovery was made, I think that’s right. Maybe from some huge Acrobat-like grotesquery that packages a JVM, but marginal even then.

Happily, Java applets are nice and dead at this point.

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!

Klyith posted:

Yeah here I agree. Jay making a poorly-researched video about it seems pointless, as Jay's viewers aren't the people who need to hear it. But maybe one teen PC builder will grow up to be a coder and say "maybe I shouldn't start every project by scouring NPM to find the max possible packages I can glue together".
Ahahahaha. The few functional core dependencies you actually do want will just fetch all sorts of bullshit for you.

Since I've started coding stuff at work with Node.JS and React, I'm being :psypop: on the regular. At the very beginning I was excited to do an Electron app, until I've set up a template project and looked at the module tree, I nearly fell backwards. Why there's so much poo poo in there that other environments like Java or .NET have in a properly maintained base class library, I still can't fathom. And everything is there in triplicates, because there's plenty of forking and NIH going on.

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Charles Leclerc
Jul 22, 2014

SUCCHIAMI IL MIO CAZZO DA DIETRO, RANA RAGAZZO



2022 FIA Formula 1 WDC


CoolCab posted:

oh i anticipate the daily-uploads strategy is in part in response to LTT and stuff and in part because it works. talking head videos where he more or less makes a forum post in front of a camera are cheap and people watch them, there's a reason that six out of his last ten videos follow the format. :shrug:

Yeah but he needs to realise that nobody wants daily videos that are such garbage and that his strength isn't in trying to compete with LTT. He makes some sick custom builds and used to do some very good educational videos about watercooling, but "Jay weighs in on poo poo he doesn't understand" followed by him getting caremad about YouTube comments calling it out is utterly dreadful and has me unsubscribing from his channel.

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