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carry on then
Jul 10, 2010

by VideoGames

(and can't post for 9 years!)

toiletbrush posted:

yeah, people just want to contribute, or at least be seen to contribute, and sometimes the low hanging fruit is all they've got.

A previous architect made everyone on the team use StyleCop as it immediately killed this sort of bike-shedding outright. He also banned UI chat from demos for the same reason.

Dude was good.

lmao i've gotten some primo godawful ui feedback from demos, that's a good move

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CRIP EATIN BREAD
Jun 24, 2002

Hey stop worrying bout my acting bitch, and worry about your WACK ass music. In the mean time... Eat a hot bowl of Dicks! Ice T



Soiled Meat
kafka and avro are cool, fight me.

gonadic io
Feb 16, 2011

>>=

CRIP EATIN BREAD posted:

kafka and avro are cool, fight me.

they are definitely very good when used in situations where they're appropriate tools. my main issue is when people insist on shoving them everywhere

gonadic io
Feb 16, 2011

>>=

gonadic io posted:

they are definitely very good when used in situations where they're appropriate tools. my main issue is when people insist on shoving them everywhere

including at least one situation at work where a service asyncronously puts a message on a topic, and then spins waiting for a response on another topic before doing the next thing.

sure glad we're async here

Cold on a Cob
Feb 6, 2006

i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually

College Slice

toiletbrush posted:

yeah, people just want to contribute, or at least be seen to contribute, and sometimes the low hanging fruit is all they've got.

A previous architect made everyone on the team use StyleCop as it immediately killed this sort of bike-shedding outright. He also banned UI chat from demos for the same reason.

Dude was good.

agreed, coding styles are arbitrary so it's definitely in your best interest to define asap on any greenfield project and preferably just go with the community default

toiletbrush
May 17, 2010

carry on then posted:

lmao i've gotten some primo godawful ui feedback from demos, that's a good move
for us it wasn't about bad feedback so much, and obvs genuine issues could be raised, it was just about cutting the ~55 minutes per hour of noise caused by the three competing bigwigs all trying to out-contribute each other to prove the project was their baby

ThePeavstenator
Dec 18, 2012

:burger::burger::burger::burger::burger:

Establish the Buns

:burger::burger::burger::burger::burger:

toiletbrush posted:

He also banned UI chat from demos for the same reason.

My boss effectively did this for us almost right away after he started 9 months ago and it owns. Now if we could just get search on the chopping block as well.

akadajet
Sep 14, 2003

My favorite category of demo feedback is people wanting to implement complex rules for sorting list items.

ThePeavstenator
Dec 18, 2012

:burger::burger::burger::burger::burger:

Establish the Buns

:burger::burger::burger::burger::burger:
Taking about anything related to sorting, paging, UI appearance, etc of search/query results is a huge waste of time that could have been better spent on important topics, like which of 200 or 404 is the real RESTful response code for a webservice to respond with for a valid, successfully processed request that contains no results for the query parameters supplied. :suicide:

akadajet
Sep 14, 2003

i send a 426 upgrade required whenever someone hits my app with internet explorer or android

suffix
Jul 27, 2013

Wheeee!

abigserve posted:

maybe it's unreasonable to write your own messaging system

yes
kafka is good if you need a simple message log that actually saves messages and it plugs into everything and there's libraries for your language
it gives understandable but strong guarantees and mostly keeps them
if you don't really care about your messages you can use a redis queue

Qtotonibudinibudet
Nov 7, 2011



Omich poluyobok, skazhi ty narkoman? ya prosto tozhe gde to tam zhivu, mogli by vmeste uyobyvat' narkotiki

ThePeavstenator posted:

Taking about anything related to sorting, paging, UI appearance, etc of search/query results is a huge waste of time that could have been better spent on important topics, like which of 200 or 404 is the real RESTful response code for a webservice to respond with for a valid, successfully processed request that contains no results for the query parameters supplied. :suicide:

did nobody raise that 204 exists for this specific purpose

mystes
May 31, 2006

anatoliy pltkrvkay posted:

did nobody raise that 204 exists for this specific purpose
HTTP 204 developers busy bikeshedding?

Cold on a Cob
Feb 6, 2006

i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually

College Slice
GET /somelist
200: ["foo", "bar", null]

GET /somelist/1
200: "foo"

GET /somelist/2
200: "bar"

GET /somelist/3
204

GET /somelist/4
404

:hehe:

Chalks
Sep 30, 2009

GET /somelist?filter=butt
200: []

:colbert:

dick traceroute
Feb 24, 2010

Open the pod bay doors, Hal.
Grimey Drawer

Chalks posted:

GET /somelist?filter=butt
200: []

:colbert:

This, but unirorically

Cold on a Cob
Feb 6, 2006

i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually

College Slice
i do that for querystring results because my front end coder says 204s break her binding or something vOv

i deliberately haven't investigated if this is true or if she just can't be bothered

Chalks
Sep 30, 2009

Cold on a Cob posted:

i do that for querystring results because my front end coder says 204s break her binding or something vOv

i deliberately haven't investigated if this is true or if she just can't be bothered

she's probably right because 204 means no content and [] is two characters of content

simble
May 11, 2004

Cold on a Cob posted:

i do that for querystring results because my front end coder says 204s break her binding or something vOv

i deliberately haven't investigated if this is true or if she just can't be bothered

i love internet

Cold on a Cob
Feb 6, 2006

i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually

College Slice
as someone that hasn't touched front end since jquery was the new hotness*, i want to know: is modern front end architecture bikeshedding all the way down? be honest with me pls

*not counting some razor views here and there

Soricidus
Oct 20, 2010
freedom-hating statist shill

Chalks posted:

GET /somelist?filter=butt
200: <html><body>Sorry, we didn’t find any butts</body></html>

:colbert:

http doesn’t stand for json transfer protocol :colbert:

DONT THREAD ON ME
Oct 1, 2002

by Nyc_Tattoo
Floss Finder

Cold on a Cob posted:

as someone that hasn't touched front end since jquery was the new hotness*, i want to know: is modern front end architecture bikeshedding all the way down? be honest with me pls

*not counting some razor views here and there

if you're doing modern frontend most likely your backend is just a json api, which means your frontend is fully responsible for routing, all display logic, etc. way more than a traditional frontend where the backend is serving up fully rendered html.

so no, it's not bikeshedding. modern javascript frontends are very complicated. pros: it is nice to decouple frontend from backend like this. cons: now you have tons of complicated javascript code and a 50mb app bundle.

akadajet
Sep 14, 2003

Soricidus posted:

http doesn’t stand for json transfer protocol :colbert:

lol. just like asp reporting errors

akadajet
Sep 14, 2003

DONT THREAD ON ME posted:

if you're doing modern frontend most likely your backend is just a json api, which means your frontend is fully responsible for routing, all display logic, etc. way more than a traditional frontend where the backend is serving up fully rendered html.

so no, it's not bikeshedding.

now if we're talking about re-inventing the wheel, there is a TON of that going on in modern frontend dev

Cold on a Cob
Feb 6, 2006

i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually

College Slice

akadajet posted:

now if we're talking about re-inventing the wheel, there is a TON of that going on in modern frontend dev

yeah this is probably more what i was thinking and idk why i mentally slotted it as "bikeshedding"

kitten emergency
Jan 13, 2008

get meow this wack-ass crystal prison
im flashing back to the time the sr. architect said that it was ok to return 200 on an internal error because the error page was successfully returned

akadajet
Sep 14, 2003

uncurable mlady posted:

im flashing back to the time the sr. architect said that it was ok to return 200 on an internal error because the error page was successfully returned

it's amazing how many incompetent people there are in tech

leper khan
Dec 28, 2010
Honest to god thinks Half Life 2 is a bad game. But at least he likes Monster Hunter.

akadajet posted:

it's amazing how many incompetent people there are in tech

it’s amazing how many of them make it to the top

it’s almost like promotions don’t have anything to do with competence

akadajet
Sep 14, 2003

I'm about to embark on porting our last legacy bit of silverlight into a webapp and I'm seriously not enthusiastic about building another front end right now.

DaTroof
Nov 16, 2000

CC LIMERICK CONTEST GRAND CHAMPION
There once was a poster named Troof
Who was getting quite long in the toof

leper khan posted:

it’s amazing how many of them make it to the top

it’s almost like promotions don’t have anything to do with competence

at my old job a few years back, our department needed a manager, and they promoted one of our developers specifically because he was the least useful guy on the team. like, one of the benefits of promoting him was reducing his coding responsibilities. an exec-level guy straight up admitted that poo poo to me

unsurprisingly, he wasn't effective as a manager either, and they eventually let him go. more than a few of my coworkers were constitutionally incapable of hiding their contempt for him

Jabor
Jul 16, 2010

#1 Loser at SpaceChem
sounds like he wasn't the only incompetent manager at that org

Shaggar
Apr 26, 2006

akadajet posted:

I'm about to embark on porting our last legacy bit of silverlight into a webapp and I'm seriously not enthusiastic about building another front end right now.

do it in something other than javascript and it wont be so painful

Hunter2 Thompson
Feb 3, 2005

Ramrod XTreme

uncurable mlady posted:

im flashing back to the time the sr. architect said that it was ok to return 200 on an internal error because the error page was successfully returned

hahaha did we work at the same place?

I was directed to always return a 200 status code and to put a field in the json response that had the “real” status code in it.

that way the client software could disambiguate between an error response from our software or a problem with the http server.

like, that almost makes sense.

suffix
Jul 27, 2013

Wheeee!
i've been solving the advent of code challenges in both python and rust as a little experiment
the rust solutions roughly averaged take me 1.7x as long to write and run 10x as fast

the moral is probably to write quick one-off programs in python unless theyre going to run for multiple hours at least
the numbers matched my intuition quite well, i do feel more productive in python than in my main typed languages but it's nice to confirm it

akadajet
Sep 14, 2003

Shaggar posted:

do it in something other than javascript and it wont be so painful

company wants to do angular 7, so it's gonna be typescript. honestly these web frameworks start to all look the same after awhile. at least angular's cli looks nice.

Chalks
Sep 30, 2009

akadajet posted:

company wants to do angular 7, so it's gonna be typescript. honestly these web frameworks start to all look the same after awhile. at least angular's cli looks nice.

typescript is a good call, never use javascript directly

Shaggar
Apr 26, 2006

akadajet posted:

angular's cli

lmao

DaTroof
Nov 16, 2000

CC LIMERICK CONTEST GRAND CHAMPION
There once was a poster named Troof
Who was getting quite long in the toof

Chalks posted:

typescript is a good call, never use javascript directly

typescript is good but angular is buttcheeks

Shaggar
Apr 26, 2006
typescript requires node to make it work so its still not good

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Chalks
Sep 30, 2009

Shaggar posted:

typescript requires node to make it work so its still not good

it takes node to make it compile, but it's not like you'll be needing to use it in production

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