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https://pellsson.github.io/
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Jan 12, 2019 11:23
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florida lan posted:staring at modern webapps (including ours) saddens me. Yes it turns out that a document typesetting system makes a poor user interface toolkit
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Jan 12, 2019 14:04
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florida lan posted:staring at modern webapps (including ours) saddens me. does the back button work on your site because if not im going to ban you
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Jan 12, 2019 15:04
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florida lan posted:staring at modern webapps (including ours) saddens me. it wouldn't be bad if the client language was c# instead of javascript.
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Jan 12, 2019 17:33
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Shaggar posted:it wouldn't be bad if the client language was c# instead of javascript. then go back in time and kill brendan eich cause otherwise that horse left the barn years ago
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Jan 12, 2019 17:44
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florida lan posted:i have become angry outdated old so much sooner than i thought. new thread title
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Jan 12, 2019 17:45
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Blinkz0rz posted:then go back in time and kill brendan eich cause otherwise that horse left the barn years ago yeah netscape and mozilla pretty much destroyed the internet
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Jan 12, 2019 17:46
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modern javascript is fine as a language although the stdlib is tiny because browsers the ecosystem that came up because of the tiny stdlib, the lack of standardized build targets, and the entire thing running on the client is javascript's shame
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Jan 12, 2019 17:46
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lol no. javascript is a horrible, horrible language and all the tooling in the world cant fix it. also all the tooling is terrible
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Jan 12, 2019 17:47
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Shaggar posted:yeah netscape and mozilla pretty much destroyed the internet lmao sure it's not microsoft refusing to follow the w3c or anything the browser wars were microsoft's fault and we've all suffered for it
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Jan 12, 2019 17:48
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mozilla should have accepted microsofts superior technology but instead they promoted what was the worst possible option
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Jan 12, 2019 17:49
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Shaggar posted:lol no. javascript is a horrible, horrible language and all the tooling in the world cant fix it. also all the tooling is terrible i know i'm being shaggared but i'm sincerely curious as to why you think es6 is a horrible language don't compare it to c#
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Jan 12, 2019 17:50
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like it really cant be overstated just how bad javascript is and how terrible of a choice it was.
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Jan 12, 2019 17:50
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es6 not what you remember of javascript from 1998
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Jan 12, 2019 17:51
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if you show an es6 to a shaggar, they will refuse its existence
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Jan 12, 2019 17:54
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Blinkz0rz posted:i know i'm being shaggared but i'm sincerely curious as to why you think es6 is a horrible language idk why we would exclude good languages from consideration, but javascripts core problem is its comedy type system. every problem it has comes from the terrible decision to not really have types but then also have 2 different flavors of null. it makes it awful to use as a human, but it also makes it impossible to create good runtimes or tools. it should be compared to c# and java which are much better languages and were an option at the time javascript really started to become a problem.
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Jan 12, 2019 17:59
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Blinkz0rz posted:modern javascript is fine as a language although the stdlib is tiny because browsers Do you prefer substr or substring?
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Jan 12, 2019 18:01
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Js even has actual integers now although obviously there are limits to how well you can retrofit this sort of thing (Bigints. Stick n on the end of a number literal to make it a bigint) It still isn't a particularly great language but at least it is no longer an awful one now that es6 classes and triple equals and iterables and the module system exist. Like it or not we are all stuck in this loveless marriage and we have to make it work somehow, to the wider ecosystem's credit they're not doing a terrible job.
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Jan 12, 2019 18:03
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if es6 had eliminated prototype inheritance and dynamic types it would have been a good step forward
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Jan 12, 2019 18:06
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Sapozhnik posted:Js even has actual integers now although obviously there are limits to how well you can retrofit this sort of thing ah yes everything runs on node now so its all the same level of terrible instead of differently terrible based on which tool you're using. I cant wait for webass to eliminate javascript from web development
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Jan 12, 2019 18:10
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I'm not sure you can judge javascript without considering the improvements using typescript brings.
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Jan 12, 2019 18:11
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ComradeCosmobot posted:Do you prefer substr or substring? i'm aware of the gotcha you're trying to call out. i tend to use substring because mdn considers substr to be legacy that said i haven't written an appreciable amount of javascript in a year and a bit
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Jan 12, 2019 18:12
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Chalks posted:I'm not sure you can judge javascript without considering the improvements using typescript brings. having to install a bunch of javascript compiler tooling to go from typescript to javascript does not make javascript good. it just adds more headache to the development process when we could have just had something typescript like from the start. like yeah we're stuck here and it sucks rear end, but there are people in this thread actually defending the state of web "development". these people are insane and we should do our best to prevent that from spreading.
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Jan 12, 2019 18:14
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Shaggar posted:if es6 had eliminated prototype inheritance and dynamic types it would have been a good step forward prototypical inheritance is fine it's not the language's fault you don't understand it js type system could be better but typescript exists and tbh if you get into a place where you have questions about your types you're probably writing bad code anyway
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Jan 12, 2019 18:14
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when hes right hes right
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Jan 12, 2019 18:15
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javascript is bad
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Jan 12, 2019 18:15
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i wonder what the overlap between people saying javascript is bad and people who write c is
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Jan 12, 2019 18:17
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if you're writing any javascript at all you're writing bad code, but I cant imagine a scenario where types aren't important. also prototype inheritance is dumb as gently caress and anyone promoting dynamic typing should be shot.
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Jan 12, 2019 18:19
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AWWNAW posted:javascript is bad
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Jan 12, 2019 18:21
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Shaggar posted:having to install a bunch of javascript compiler tooling to go from typescript to javascript does not make javascript good. it just adds more headache to the development process when we could have just had something typescript like from the start. well it kind of does if your problem is things like a bad type system and doing those things makes that not a problem any more. javascript may be bad, but you're mostly complaining about solved problems because you refuse to consider the solution because using programming tools is "hard". it's not like i can open up a .cs file in notepad and magic it to life without installing a bunch of tooling, it's literally how almost all programming languages work i mean it's clear you have the luxury of not developing things in javascript but you're not going to convince me that you wouldn't use tools to solve your problems if you did
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Jan 12, 2019 18:26
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I cannot imagine what it must be like to work somewhere that forces you to use JavaScript and you just have to make the best of a bad situation. nobody should have to live like that
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Jan 12, 2019 19:33
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AWWNAW posted:I cannot imagine what it must be like to work somewhere that forces you to use JavaScript and you just have to make the best of a bad situation. nobody should have to live like that a lot of people chose to live like that learn to love your chains and all that
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Jan 12, 2019 19:34
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Blinkz0rz posted:if you get into a place where you have questions about your types you're probably writing bad code anyway  I don't think I've ever seen this particular defense of dynamic typing before but here we are.
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Jan 12, 2019 19:39
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the terrible programmers are coming from inside the thread
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Jan 12, 2019 19:40
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Beamed posted:
i can understand duck typing being ok as long as your project doesn't touch important things, but dynamic typing is just so out there
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Jan 12, 2019 19:42
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AWWNAW posted:I cannot imagine what it must be like to work somewhere that forces you to use JavaScript and you just have to make the best of a bad situation. nobody should have to live like that i too struggle to understand where modern websites come from
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Jan 12, 2019 19:50
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Chalks posted:i too struggle to understand where modern websites come from they come straight from hell next!
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Jan 12, 2019 19:52
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on a different note, I'd forgotten how I struggled with timed programming tests, just did one for a job where my three solutions were 1) good, 2) correct but too slow, and 3) then right approach but not complete  tomorrow I need to do another one that includes some component of video recording of answers to questions which seems p bullshit, gotta keep that ability to surreptitiously check a candidate's skin colour i guess
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Jan 12, 2019 20:01
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Beamed posted:
did you completely miss that 10 year period where everyone loved dynamic typing and thought that static types were just a legacy thing that used to be required for good performance?
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Jan 12, 2019 20:20
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Blinkz0rz posted:i wonder what the overlap between people saying javascript is bad and people who write c is i write c, and while i can assure you that yes its nearly as bad as my posts, i dont ever want to touch the javascript again
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Jan 12, 2019 20:31
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