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Jazerus
May 24, 2011



that's the forbidden function

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pseudorandom name
May 6, 2007

Ploft-shell crab posted:

ah gently caress


is there a nice writeup somewhere on this?

https://lwn.net/Articles/752063/
https://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/Fsync_Errors
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VWIGBQLtxo

pseudorandom name fucked around with this message at 06:09 on Jul 28, 2019

pseudorandom
Jun 16, 2010



Yam Slacker
Old MacDonald had a server farm


And on that farm he had a database



With an fsync here
and an fsync there
here an fsync, there an fsync
everywhere an fsync

Old MacDonald HAD a server farm

FlapYoJacks
Feb 12, 2009

by vyelkin

All the Postgres talks at Fosdem this year were excellent.

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

pseudorandom posted:

Old MacDonald had a server farm


And on that farm he had a database



With an fsync here
and an fsync there
here an fsync, there an fsync
everywhere an fsync

Old MacDonald HAD a server farm

lol


Also I was gonna say that I bet lwn had something on it but y'all on it

MrMoo
Sep 14, 2000

Bloody posted:

lol Linux is so bad

And OpenBSD, NetBSD, and it appears Win32 just doesn't bother providing a single API so also poop.

It is a rather odd usage of the API, writing in one process and calling fsync() in another.

my homie dhall
Dec 9, 2010

honey, oh please, it's just a machine

:tipshat:

matti
Mar 31, 2019

Plorkyeran posted:

reporting failures when closing a file is pretty pointless

nah yeah it makes sense to me now when more sober

just that my mental model of how the FILE error flag worked was just different

file systems are hard

ADINSX
Sep 9, 2003

Wanna run with my crew, hah? Rule cyberspace and crunch numbers like I do?


how many layers of application code are you on?

Xarn
Jun 26, 2015
ctps: PowerPoint can verify my licence because my PC is hosed, so I am trying this reveal.js thing everyone seems to like.

It uh works, but writing in it so far has been much more time consuming than using PowerPoint would be.

matti
Mar 31, 2019

matti posted:

nah yeah it makes sense to me now when more sober

just that my mental model of how the FILE error flag worked was just different

file systems are hard

though id still prefer itd be set and user explicitly testing ferror() if they want to recover from an open and/or close failure since thatd be more symmetric to how rest of the api works

Sagacity
May 2, 2003
Hopefully my epitaph will be funnier than my custom title.

Xarn posted:

ctps: PowerPoint can verify my licence because my PC is hosed, so I am trying this reveal.js thing everyone seems to like.

It uh works, but writing in it so far has been much more time consuming than using PowerPoint would be.
seems par for the course for js-based wheel reinventions

CRIP EATIN BREAD
Jun 24, 2002

Hey stop worrying bout my acting bitch, and worry about your WACK ass music. In the mean time... Eat a hot bowl of Dicks! Ice T



Soiled Meat
when you fclose but the kernel keeps syncin'...

my homie dhall
Dec 9, 2010

honey, oh please, it's just a machine

CRIP EATIN BREAD posted:

when you fclose but the kernel keeps syncin'...

Cold on a Cob
Feb 6, 2006

i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually

College Slice

CRIP EATIN BREAD posted:

when you fclose but the kernel keeps syncin'...

FlapYoJacks
Feb 12, 2009

by vyelkin

CRIP EATIN BREAD posted:

when you fclose but the kernel keeps syncin'...

mods please

Finster Dexter
Oct 20, 2014

Beyond is Finster's mad vision of Earth transformed.
cjs: Without being a huge throbbing dick about it, how do I tell junior dev to "just loving google it" when I get slack messages like "how do I disable cors in .net core for local development??"

Ciaphas
Nov 20, 2005

> BEWARE, COWARD :ovr:


in slack I've handed over an LMGTFY link to qualified success ("ha, yes, i should have googled that, huh"), but I'm known to be goony around people and i knew it was a ribbing he'd comprehend

Cold on a Cob
Feb 6, 2006

i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually

College Slice

Finster Dexter posted:

cjs: Without being a huge throbbing dick about it, how do I tell junior dev to "just loving google it" when I get slack messages like "how do I disable cors in .net core for local development??"

"you should try searching online before you ask me for help. i don't want to be a bottleneck for you and you're gonna find that you're constantly looking stuff up for the rest of your career. if you get stuck or think the solution you find isn't right or you just want to go over what you coded, hit me up"

aardvaard
Mar 4, 2013

you belong in the bog of eternal stench

Finster Dexter posted:

cjs: Without being a huge throbbing dick about it, how do I tell junior dev to "just loving google it" when I get slack messages like "how do I disable cors in .net core for local development??"

find an article or a doc page or something and send it to them with the message "found this on google"

Finster Dexter
Oct 20, 2014

Beyond is Finster's mad vision of Earth transformed.

Ciaphas posted:

in slack I've handed over an LMGTFY link to qualified success ("ha, yes, i should have googled that, huh"), but I'm known to be goony around people and i knew it was a ribbing he'd comprehend

That was my first instinct but I was worried that would be considered rude.

aardvaard
Mar 4, 2013

you belong in the bog of eternal stench

e: oops

Finster Dexter
Oct 20, 2014

Beyond is Finster's mad vision of Earth transformed.

Cold on a Cob posted:

"you should try searching online before you ask me for help. i don't want to be a bottleneck for you and you're gonna find that you're constantly looking stuff up for the rest of your career. if you get stuck or think the solution you find isn't right or you just want to go over what you coded, hit me up"

aardvaard posted:

find an article or a doc page or something and send it to him with the message "found this on google"

ok, gonna combine these

JawnV6
Jul 4, 2004

So hot ...

Cold on a Cob posted:

"you should try searching online before you ask me for help. i don't want to be a bottleneck for you and you're gonna find that you're constantly looking stuff up for the rest of your career. if you get stuck or think the solution you find isn't right or you just want to go over what you coded, hit me up"
this is very well put

the only thing i might add is to give the junior an out like "i understand you wouldn't want to just google proprietary company info, but this is a common problem that a lot of web dev face and it's okay to search external resources for a generic question like this"

pokeyman
Nov 26, 2006

That elephant ate my entire platoon.
"what have you tried so far?" can prompt a search ("nothing" feels like the wrong answer to even the most clueless) and/or a fruitful discussion about why attempted solutions didn’t work ("ah yeah, Microsoft docs haven’t clearly marked a key difference between .net 5 and .net core for workgroups, make sure you double-check the list of affected products")

gonadic io
Feb 16, 2011

>>=

pokeyman posted:

"what have you tried so far?" can prompt a search ("nothing" feels like the wrong answer to even the most clueless) and/or a fruitful discussion about why attempted solutions didn’t work ("ah yeah, Microsoft docs haven’t clearly marked a key difference between .net 5 and .net core for workgroups, make sure you double-check the list of affected products")

it's this, or even the direct "what have you tried googling?". get all Socratic method especially if you're supposed to be teaching or mentoring

linking lmgtfy is an rear end in a top hat move

Shaggar
Apr 26, 2006

Finster Dexter posted:

cjs: Without being a huge throbbing dick about it, how do I tell junior dev to "just loving google it" when I get slack messages like "how do I disable cors in .net core for local development??"

the problem is the googled answer will be wrong because the way vs handles https certs is loving stupid. it generates a localhost cert which is useless because of cors and other browser security things. The best solution is to generate a proper fqdn cert for your computer (from your local CA) and then configure vs to use that.

then you dont need to disable cors or do other dumb poo poo that you might forget to fix in production

Shaggar
Apr 26, 2006
for this specific thing ask him why he wants to disable cors and then have him consider what alternatives there might be to disabling cors. Then you can figure out which of those options is the best and why the couple minutes of setup to make that happen is worth removing a potential security issue in your code and having a more accurate development environment.

also keep in mind juniors are idiots and dont know anything including how to ask questions so its entirely possible he knows something smells wrong about disabling cors and hes looking for guidance on if its the right thing to do.

Doom Mathematic
Sep 1, 2008

Finster Dexter posted:

cjs: Without being a huge throbbing dick about it, how do I tell junior dev to "just loving google it" when I get slack messages like "how do I disable cors in .net core for local development??"

"I don't know offhand. Try Google."

suffix
Jul 27, 2013

Wheeee!
pair programming sessions are if nothing else good for disabusing juniors of the notion that you're a senior because you have all the apis memorized
also shows effective googling, like use the official docs not some medium blogspam, and you'll probably get some "wow, i didn't know the ide could do that" comments

people talk about benefits to code quality but basic tricks and shortcuts are undershared, much like bum wiping techniques

CRIP EATIN BREAD
Jun 24, 2002

Hey stop worrying bout my acting bitch, and worry about your WACK ass music. In the mean time... Eat a hot bowl of Dicks! Ice T



Soiled Meat
some of the juniors were afraid and used to think they're wasting my time by asking a lot of questions, especially when i stop what im doing and come over and walk them through the process of figuring out what steps need to be taken to solve/improve an issue. eventually i beat it into them that "this takes up a half hour now but will save us all ten hours later" and "i'd rather you ask up front so I'm not refactoring your bullshit later".

now they're catching on with some of the best practices i like to instill and they're starting to grow into better devs. every once and awhile I hear "don't do it like that, CRIP EATIN BREAD showed me this thing and it will work better if you approach it this way" and it's a calming wave sweeps over my body

Zlodo
Nov 24, 2006

Ciaphas posted:

in slack I've handed over an LMGTFY link to qualified success ("ha, yes, i should have googled that, huh"), but I'm known to be goony around people and i knew it was a ribbing he'd comprehend

my lead once regularly asked me for poo poo that i didn't know but would find with just a simple google query and one time after he thanked me i told him "np, let me know if you need me to google anything else" and he laughed and stopped

but well he was a super cool and chill guy and gentle mockery is something that came naturally (both ways) when interacting with him

Cold on a Cob
Feb 6, 2006

i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually

College Slice
yeah good points. you definitely don't want to shut the door completely on them asking you for help, and teaching general problem solving skills, debugging skills, etc can really help a jr dev

Cold on a Cob
Feb 6, 2006

i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually

College Slice
also yeah know your audience. don't pick on jr devs :shobon:

Ciaphas
Nov 20, 2005

> BEWARE, COWARD :ovr:


Zlodo posted:

my lead once regularly asked me for poo poo that i didn't know but would find with just a simple google query and one time after he thanked me i told him "np, let me know if you need me to google anything else" and he laughed and stopped

but well he was a super cool and chill guy and gentle mockery is something that came naturally (both ways) when interacting with him

yeah, this was the context--a guy who's clearly smart and also used to taking/receiving gentle ribbing, who just needed a prod in the rear end of independence

other people i didn't know well, and I were too busy to personally help? I suppose... I suppose I'd say something like "Don't think I know, I'd just have to google. Sorry"

Gets me out of it and gently informs them the web can help while giving the impression you think they're just trying to skip said annoying web search (which is fair enough, some search terms are a goddamn pain)

my homie dhall
Dec 9, 2010

honey, oh please, it's just a machine

Cold on a Cob posted:

also yeah know your audience. don't pick on jr devs :shobon:

a bunch of juniors I’ve been running into lately could use some picking on :corsair:

Chalks
Sep 30, 2009

It's a difficult balance to strike. I honestly don't want my junior devs re-inventing the wheel via google every time they encounter an issue since we've probably got a bunch of common functions that solve their problem already, or at least a preferred way of doing things.

Half the time the answer is probably to go and google it but it's a good thing for them to ask first.

Shaggar
Apr 26, 2006

CRIP EATIN BREAD posted:

some of the juniors were afraid and used to think they're wasting my time by asking a lot of questions, especially when i stop what im doing and come over and walk them through the process of figuring out what steps need to be taken to solve/improve an issue. eventually i beat it into them that "this takes up a half hour now but will save us all ten hours later" and "i'd rather you ask up front so I'm not refactoring your bullshit later".

now they're catching on with some of the best practices i like to instill and they're starting to grow into better devs. every once and awhile I hear "don't do it like that, CRIP EATIN BREAD showed me this thing and it will work better if you approach it this way" and it's a calming wave sweeps over my body

yeah you dont want them to think "oh, every time I ask my senior a question he says to google it" cause then you'll just get a snack overflow dev

Carthag Tuek
Oct 15, 2005

altid pamo når du går
veje du burd' kende
overleved' barneår
lig' til livets ende

pokeyman posted:

"what have you tried so far?" can prompt a search ("nothing" feels like the wrong answer to even the most clueless) and/or a fruitful discussion about why attempted solutions didn’t work ("ah yeah, Microsoft docs haven’t clearly marked a key difference between .net 5 and .net core for workgroups, make sure you double-check the list of affected products")

gonadic io posted:

it's this, or even the direct "what have you tried googling?". get all Socratic method especially if you're supposed to be teaching or mentoring

linking lmgtfy is an rear end in a top hat move

vouching for these

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raminasi
Jan 25, 2005

a last drink with no ice
“idk, i just google that stuff” has the additional benefit of making it difficult to be condescending because you’re specifically highlighting your own ignorance

also having juniors spend some time reinventing stuff wrong isn’t the worst thing in the world if your review process and mentoring culture are good. as long as they don’t “waste” too much time it’s one of the best ways to learn, and it’s not like you should be expecting too much productivity out of them in the first place.

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