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Kanine
Aug 5, 2014

by Nyc_Tattoo

MaxieSatan posted:

Very excited that Michael is finally arriving at the conclusion that the system is rotten to the core and needs to be torn down entirely. A true comrade

honestly i figured the show was going in that direction with all the hints we've been given

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Oasx
Oct 11, 2006

Freshly Squeezed
I am surprised that nobody mentioned that the opening was a huge Lost reference.

double nine
Aug 8, 2013

I can imagine that the judge is going to have some questions regarding a bunch of demons somehow coming back from earth. That should be fun!

flatluigi
Apr 22, 2008

here come the planes

Oasx posted:

I am surprised that nobody mentioned that the opening was a huge Lost reference.

I felt it was obvious enough that it didn't really need a comment

Desmond's character intro is still one of my all-time favorites

ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

Thankee kindly.
Yeah it seemed very obvious that Doug was doomed because his desires were corrupt. If he was genuinely happy with how his life was going that'd be one thing, but as pointed out he was miserable deep down.

Actually, could it be that as soon as Doug got the epiphany of how the point system worked, he was doomed anyway since his counter would have stopped? Since he 'realized' how the system operated, even if subconsciously.

Kegslayer
Jul 23, 2007
With what Shawn was saying, from the first episode I thought that the point score needed for the good place was so obscenely high that you basically need to end slavery or start the world's biggest charity to even be considered.

Doug isn't going to the good place because there's no way he is ever going to accrue enough points to get in even if he's living as the most ethical version of himself.

Arist posted:

I was wrong, apparently the next episode is on the 6th.

Netflix has it for January for us non Americans :smith:.

Slamhound
Mar 27, 2010

ApplesandOranges posted:

Yeah it seemed very obvious that Doug was doomed because his desires were corrupt. If he was genuinely happy with how his life was going that'd be one thing, but as pointed out he was miserable deep down.

Actually, could it be that as soon as Doug got the epiphany of how the point system worked, he was doomed anyway since his counter would have stopped? Since he 'realized' how the system operated, even if subconsciously.

I don't know, I got the sense Shawn was implying that the reason Doug and the others were doomed was because Michael showed up in their lives; he only mentioned, the group, their loved ones and Doug. Michael's interference is what they all have in common.

Selachian
Oct 9, 2012

ApplesandOranges posted:

Yeah it seemed very obvious that Doug was doomed because his desires were corrupt. If he was genuinely happy with how his life was going that'd be one thing, but as pointed out he was miserable deep down.

Actually, could it be that as soon as Doug got the epiphany of how the point system worked, he was doomed anyway since his counter would have stopped? Since he 'realized' how the system operated, even if subconsciously.

The system does seem set up to ding you if you do good for any reason other than pure selflessness. Remember, Tahani did millions of dollars of charity work when she was alive and none of it counts because she did it to feed her ego and compete with her sister.

I suspect we may find out that no one has ever qualified for the Good Place, although that may be a bit too obvious. Maybe Abraham Lincoln is hanging out there alone wondering where everyone else is.

pwn
May 27, 2004

This Christmas get "Shoes"









:pwn: :pwn: :pwn: :pwn: :pwn:
The podcast directly addresses this issue. Doug’s not dinged because he doesn’t know this is how it works. It’s a guess, based off a hallucination.

Regy Rusty
Apr 26, 2010

pwn posted:

The podcast directly addresses this issue. Doug’s not dinged because he doesn’t know this is how it works. It’s a guess, based off a hallucination.

Nice I was about to post my thought about this - it's effectively the same as a religious person doing good because they believe they'll be rewarded for it in the afterlife. Doug's religion just happens to actually be right in this world.

LongDarkNight
Oct 25, 2010

It's like watching the collapse of Western civilization in fast forward.
Oven Wrangler
Janet knows kung fu.

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

ASK ME ABOUT MY SHITTY, BOUGIE INTERIOR DECORATING ADVICE

LongDarkNight posted:

Janet knows kung fu.

Janet knows Literally Everything. Kung fu is a subset of Literally Everything.

Watermelon Daiquiri
Jul 10, 2010
I TRIED TO BAIT THE TXPOL THREAD WITH THE WORLD'S WORST POSSIBLE TAKE AND ALL I GOT WAS THIS STUPID AVATAR.
but she didnt know doug's situation somehow

pwn
May 27, 2004

This Christmas get "Shoes"









:pwn: :pwn: :pwn: :pwn: :pwn:

Watermelon Daiquiri posted:

but she didnt know doug's situation somehow
Yep, been mulling that one over tonight.

Another thing is What’s-her-name continuing where she left off when she was un-cocooned. Earlier this season, when Sean cocoons whatever demon (I think the fire monster who was sucking up?), he kept trying to talk after being cocooned. So, do you continue being aware while cocooned, or do you go into suspension? Or is it mainly dependent on if the Mega-Demons writing your lines really want to make a joke?

I only pick these nits because, I remember a while back, Schur said something about being advised to map the show out, to learn from the mistakes made by Lost. Sure, individual episodes are written as they come, but that there should be an end game towards which you work, and it will keep you focused from making sloppy mistakes as you try to wing it. It’s a testament to how amazing a job they do on this show, that the three internal logic inconsistencies noted thus far (Eleanor’s mind-blowing gag being the other) are so noticeable against an otherwise sound 3D world.

But when you consider that these three errors (?) are all from S3... well, I hope it isn’t a portent of things to come. The first two seasons were so damned tight, I’d hate to see it become a cartoon.

Regy Rusty
Apr 26, 2010

I sure hope someone got fired for those blunders

pwn
May 27, 2004

This Christmas get "Shoes"









:pwn: :pwn: :pwn: :pwn: :pwn:
I know, it’s hard to bring up criticisms without evoking strong reactions.

Like, for real. If it goes that way, it’ll still be one of the best shows ever made.

pwn fucked around with this message at 13:47 on Nov 16, 2018

LongDarkNight
Oct 25, 2010

It's like watching the collapse of Western civilization in fast forward.
Oven Wrangler

The Lord Bude posted:

Janet knows Literally Everything. Kung fu is a subset of Literally Everything.

And it rules. I was legit worried about the gang getting dragged back to the Bad Place and didn't see a way out. Then Janet goes all Neo on them. It's the most happy about something in a TV show I've been in a while.

tarlibone
Aug 1, 2014

Am I a... bad person?
AM I‽‽‽


(Ehhhh....)
Fun Shoe

Regy Rusty posted:

I sure hope someone got fired for those blunders

I know, right? They are bunglers, and they will be executed!! Hardline: one bungle, you're out. Zero bungle tolerance.


(Reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0o_B_-gbo50&t=60s)

Gobbeldygook
May 13, 2009
Hates Native American people and tries to justify their genocides.

Put this racist on ignore immediately!
The book Doug is reading when we first see him, The Most Good You Can Do, is a real book not a background text gag. In it Singer talks a little about me so I have a selfish desire to promote it.

double nine
Aug 8, 2013

settle down, Tahani.

Gobbeldygook
May 13, 2009
Hates Native American people and tries to justify their genocides.

Put this racist on ignore immediately!
Also Doug did not put as much thought into his diet as he could've. Jainism is a religion practiced by several million people that is famous for their utter dedication to non-violence. For example, Jainist monks carry a broom with them at all times for sweeping away the ground before they sit down so as to not accidentally crush any minute life that might be there. Wikipedia on their diet:

quote:

For Jains, lacto-vegetarianism is mandatory. Food is restricted to that originating from plants, since plants have only one sense ('ekindriya') and are the least developed form of life, and dairy products. Food that contains even the smallest particles of the bodies of dead animals or eggs is unacceptable.[17][18] Some Jain scholars and activists support veganism, as the modern commercialised production of dairy products is perceived to involve violence against cows. In ancient times, dairy animals were well cared for and not killed. According to Jain texts, a śrāvaka (householder) shouldn't consume the four maha-vigai (the four perversions) - wine, flesh, butter and honey; and the five udumbara fruits (the five udumbara trees are Gular, Anjeera, Banyan, Peepal, and Pakar, all belonging to the fig class).[19][20]

Jains make considerable efforts not to injure plants in everyday life as far as possible. Jains only accept such violence inasmuch as it is indispensable for human survival, and there are special instructions for preventing unnecessary violence against plants.[32][33][34] Strict Jains don’t eat root vegetables such as potatoes, onions, roots and tubers, because such root vegetables are considered ananthkay.[20] Ananthkay means one body, but containing infinite lives. A root vegetable such as potato, though from the looks of it is one article, is said to contain infinite lives in it. Also, tiny life forms are injured when the plant is pulled up and because the bulb is seen as a living being, as it is able to sprout.[35][36][37] Also, consumption of most root vegetables involves uprooting and killing the entire plant, whereas consumption of most terrestrial vegetables doesn't kill the plant (it lives on after plucking the vegetables or it was seasonally supposed to wither away anyway). Green vegetables and fruits contain uncountable, but not infinite, lives. Dry beans, lentils, cereals, nuts and seeds contain a countable number of lives and their consumption results in the least destruction of life.

Jain texts declare that a śrāvaka (householder) shouldn't cook or eat at night. According to Acharya Amritchandra's Purushartha Siddhyupaya: "And, how can one who eats food without the light of the sun, albeit a lamp may have been lighted, avoid hiṃsā of minute beings which get into food?"— Puruşārthasiddhyupāya (133)[40]

Jains do not consume fermented foods (beer, wine and other alcohols) to avoid killing of a large number of microorganisms associated with the fermenting process.[42]
So a Jainist monk would commend him for his consumption of lentils but condemn him for eating radishes.

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

Watermelon Daiquiri posted:

but she didnt know doug's situation somehow

pwn posted:

The first two seasons were so damned tight, I’d hate to see it become a cartoon.

I think part of it might just be Janet's increasing humanity. She knew how Doug was living and she knew that he was miserable, but she didn't know what that actually meant until she actually met him and connected with him on a human level.

If she seemed surprised by the idea that Doug might be doomed now (if Shawn can be believed, of course), it might be because it's due to something that happened while they were on Earth, after she was cut off from her knowledge updates--maybe, as others have suggested, it was her and Michael's intervention that doomed him, for example.

Gobbeldygook posted:

Also Doug did not put as much thought into his diet as he could've. Jainism is a religion practiced by several million people that is famous for their utter dedication to non-violence. For example, Jainist monks carry a broom with them at all times for sweeping away the ground before they sit down so as to not accidentally crush any minute life that might be there. Wikipedia on their diet:

What I find interesting her is the prohibition against eggs but the allowance of milk.

Cows, like any other mammal, only lactate when they need to do so to care for their young. That means that for a dairy cow to continue producing milk, that cow needs to continue producing more calves. If those calves are male, they can't produce dairy. These days, a farm doesn't need that many bulls, so the majority of them are raised for slaughter--so even though a cow didn't need to be killed for you to get that cow's milk, the necessity of continuing to produce offspring means that, inevitably, cow slaughter will result from dairy farming. I don't know enough about pre-modern methods, though, and maybe things were different somehow?

Meanwhile, a chicken is going to produce eggs whether or not those eggs are fertilized. They're going to lay those eggs whether they're fertilized or not, and an unfertilized egg will never become a chicken, so there's no harm in taking them and eating them, right?

Harrow fucked around with this message at 16:39 on Nov 16, 2018

Doltos
Dec 28, 2005

🤌🤌🤌

Gobbeldygook posted:

So a Jainist monk would commend him for his consumption of lentils but condemn him for eating radishes.

I was thinking that he was killing those radishes by pulling them up

Strom Cuzewon
Jul 1, 2010

Oasx posted:

I am surprised that nobody mentioned that the opening was a huge Lost reference.

2/10 no exercise bike

CPColin
Sep 9, 2003

Big ol' smile.
I just watched Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade this past weekend, but I'd like to think I would've immediately clocked Eleanor's reference to "with any luck, he's got the Grail already" anyway.

Something I just realized while listening to the podcast, I missed the change in Janet's "bing" as they voided away, but I also didn't realize that this was the first time we actually saw what it looks like, since there was no camera cut!

Gobbeldygook
May 13, 2009
Hates Native American people and tries to justify their genocides.

Put this racist on ignore immediately!

Harrow posted:

What I find interesting her is the prohibition against eggs but the allowance of milk.

Cows, like any other mammal, only lactate when they need to do so to care for their young. That means that for a dairy cow to continue producing milk, that cow needs to continue producing more calves. If those calves are male, they can't produce dairy. These days, a farm doesn't need that many bulls, so the majority of them are raised for slaughter--so even though a cow didn't need to be killed for you to get that cow's milk, the necessity of continuing to produce offspring means that, inevitably, cow slaughter will result from dairy farming. I don't know enough about pre-modern methods, though, and maybe things were different somehow?

Meanwhile, a chicken is going to produce eggs whether or not those eggs are fertilized. They're going to lay those eggs whether they're fertilized or not, and an unfertilized egg will never become a chicken, so there's no harm in taking them and eating them, right?

Bulls are useful to people that don't own tractors and cows are sacred to Hindus. It is flat-out illegal to slaughter cows in much of India, up to life in prison in some states, and that's if you're lucky enough to be arrested instead of beaten to death by an angry mob.

Remember that the Jains are a religion, not just radical utilitarians, so when they talk about milk and eggs they sometimes talk like this:

quote:

Eggs are the progeny of five-sensed beings. Food produced out of eggs is clearly flesh food. Some people argue that a vegetarian egg cannot give birth to a child; it is lifeless. This statement is untrue because it is a product of the sexual organ of the hen. So not only is it impure but it also increases in size after birth and does not become rotten. Therefore it is alive, though it may not possess the capacity to evolve form, but in no way can it be treated as lifeless.

Some people say that the milk of a cow or goat is also part of the body. However there is a vast difference between milk and eggs. This understanding is incorrect because an egg is the progeny of a hen, similarly milk is not the progeny of the cow. By taking milk out of the body of a cow or goat, no harm is done to their lives; whereas by use of the egg the creature inside the egg is killed. If the milk producing cow or goat is not milked at the proper time, agony is caused to it. Having said this, there are still issues about the way dairy cows are treated and their culling as soon as they are past their prime milking days.
Other Jains will argue that it's wrong to eat eggs because it involves stealing from the chicken, but there are definitely Jains that eat eggs precisely for the reason you outlined, especially if they raise the chickens themselves or otherwise know they are treated well. It's like how bringing up honey in a group of vegans will trigger a brawl with the utilitarian vegans defending the consumption of honey and the deontological vegans arguing that it's wrong to steal honey from bees.

Gobbeldygook fucked around with this message at 17:57 on Nov 16, 2018

CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK
Sep 11, 2001




https://i.imgur.com/M42VBXl.mp4

https://i.imgur.com/qRVIsP6.mp4

Doltos
Dec 28, 2005

🤌🤌🤌

I love everyone in this cast so much

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

Gobbeldygook posted:


Bulls are useful to people that don't own tractors and cows are sacred to Hindus. It is flat-out illegal to slaughter cows in much of India, up to life in prison in some states, and that's if you're lucky enough to be arrested instead of beaten to death by an angry mob.

Remember that the Jains are a religion, not just radical utilitarians, so when they talk about milk and eggs they sometimes talk like this:

Other Jains will argue that it's wrong to eat eggs because it involves stealing from the chicken, but there are definitely Jains that eat eggs precisely for the reason you outlined, especially if they raise the chickens themselves or otherwise know they are treated well. It's like how bringing up honey in a group of vegans will trigger a brawl with the utilitarian vegans defending the consumption of honey and the deontological vegans arguing that it's wrong to steal honey from bees.

This is a very clear and understandable explanation and that makes a ton of sense, thanks!

Zedd
Jul 6, 2009

I mean, who would have noticed another madman around here?



This just looks like more of the 4 humans teaching Michael to me :v: Hottest dance in Jacksonville.

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!
Heh, I recognized Michael McKean by the back of his head.

CPColin
Sep 9, 2003

Big ol' smile.
Kristen grabbing D'Arcy's hand in glee :allears:

Goatse James Bond
Mar 28, 2010


I've made a huge mistake.
- oh noooooo, molotovs can't solve everything :negative:
- what an amazing fight scene
- what a REALLY amazing fight scene
- oh no janet :ohdear:
- "No no no, Michael, you're confused. Evidence isn't a good thing that you want, it's a bad thing that you have to destroy or you go to jail."

Goatse James Bond
Mar 28, 2010


I've made a huge mistake.

Gobbeldygook posted:


Bulls are useful to people that don't own tractors and cows are sacred to Hindus. It is flat-out illegal to slaughter cows in much of India, up to life in prison in some states, and that's if you're lucky enough to be arrested instead of beaten to death by an angry mob.

Remember that the Jains are a religion, not just radical utilitarians, so when they talk about milk and eggs they sometimes talk like this:

Other Jains will argue that it's wrong to eat eggs because it involves stealing from the chicken, but there are definitely Jains that eat eggs precisely for the reason you outlined, especially if they raise the chickens themselves or otherwise know they are treated well. It's like how bringing up honey in a group of vegans will trigger a brawl with the utilitarian vegans defending the consumption of honey and the deontological vegans arguing that it's wrong to steal honey from bees.

what about the virtue vegans, who hold that it's okay as long as you wish the best for the bees

Gaz-L
Jan 28, 2009

Combat Pretzel posted:

Heh, I recognized Michael McKean by the back of his head.

I honestly wonder if part of the reason he was shortlisted for Doug was because Doug's life makes him oddly similar to Chuck McGill.

Miss Mowcher
Jul 24, 2007

Ribbit
Jason is incredibly talented at making Molotovs, using them though..

Taear
Nov 26, 2004

Ask me about the shitty opinions I have about Paradox games!

Combat Pretzel posted:

Heh, I recognized Michael McKean by the back of his head.

Me too, it's a rare thing but he's just so recognisable.

And yea I was thinking of jains when he pulled up the radishes. Think of all the insects he might inadvertently kill!

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

Oasx posted:

I am surprised that nobody mentioned that the opening was a huge Lost reference.
Once I saw Mama Cass's name on the eight track, I knew what was happening.

pwn posted:

I only pick these nits because,
Knits. Like from a sweater. The kind you'd pick at.

flatluigi
Apr 22, 2008

here come the planes

LividLiquid posted:

Once I saw Mama Cass's name on the eight track, I knew what was happening.

Knits. Like from a sweater. The kind you'd pick at.

nope https://www.dictionary.com/browse/nitpick

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PostNouveau
Sep 3, 2011

VY till I die
Grimey Drawer
I think Doug wouldn't make it to the Good Place based on what's been described by the show. He's shooting for a neutral score it seems. You have to actively engage in doing good to get points, not just avoid doing bad by living like a hermit.

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