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OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

It is a powerful visual metaphor for my posting.


Beefeater1980 posted:

Itís not really a capitalism simulator so much as a logistics one. You can have all the money in the game but if there arenít enough weapons, energy cells and hull parts at the shipyards when the Xenon and *ahem* Khaíak come calling, they will grind the factions down eventually.

Yeah if you want space capitalism simulator you actually want X3AP, where the best way to make money is to fill a giant fleet of freighters full of products and then fly them between different territories to repeatedly crash and boom the stock market while you buy and sell like a madman.

X4 is socialism-with-paranid-characeristics simulator.

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Major Isoor
Mar 23, 2011





Plaster Town Cop

Hey, is there a ship I can buy (preferably non-Split, since they're not my friends yet) that I can use to reliably 1v1 a Xenon K? Like, perhaps a Behemoth with plasma and ion cannons, or something?

Since yeah...tonight I killed a K in my Gorgon, and it took aaaages! I had to knock out every surface component aside from the main shields, then call in my fleet of seven ex-SCA Minotaurs and my Cerberus, in order to punch through it's shields in a reasonable amount of time. (And now the Teladi have a couple of Ks smashing up Ianamus Zura, so I'm keen to delete some Ks before the Teladi bite the dust!)

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

It is a powerful visual metaphor for my posting.


The best mainline combat ship outside of the split is probably the paranid odysseus. Because it has three large gun turrets all capable of firing forward. A K will still be a major threat however as xenon weapons are dangerous, but that will get the most firepower on the target as fast as possible.

But if you really want a capital killer the split are still best, the rattlesnake has four large turrets and the raptor has, like, eight or something? It's probably on par with a xenon I, a combined carrier and battleship.

timn
Mar 16, 2010


Something that didn't occur to me until I started fighting off the SCA is that the Xenon K is actually an XL ship and is head and shoulders above other destroyers. I can comfortably solo conventional destroyers in my hotrodded dragon, but those K's are mean with their large turret coverage and insane shield regen.

Has anyone tried using shield piercing guns on a corvette to whittle down the main shield generators and get through faster that way?

Antigravitas
Dec 8, 2019

I accept your surrender

OOS I just use a carrier with 40 Nova Sentinel (split evenly between pulse and plasma).

IS You can use any destroyer as long as you get the jump on them by attacking from the top. The K has a giant blind spot. Use travel drive to fly 20-30km above the ecliptic, turn around, come in from above and crash stop 500m from the K. By the time it has turned you should have eaten through its shields.

Destroyer main guns also make sort work of K turrets especially since most outrange the K. So you can drastically cut its outgoing dps on your approach.

Communist Bear
Oct 7, 2008



Any recommended mods people are using? Considering jumping back into this since the patches have made it a bit more stable.

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

It is a powerful visual metaphor for my posting.


timn posted:

Something that didn't occur to me until I started fighting off the SCA is that the Xenon K is actually an XL ship and is head and shoulders above other destroyers. I can comfortably solo conventional destroyers in my hotrodded dragon, but those K's are mean with their large turret coverage and insane shield regen.

Has anyone tried using shield piercing guns on a corvette to whittle down the main shield generators and get through faster that way?

That does work but it's dangerous and you still need to get through the hull which takes a long time.

Communist Bear posted:

Any recommended mods people are using? Considering jumping back into this since the patches have made it a bit more stable.

I like VRO for weapon rebalance (requires new game) and the Faction Enhancer mods for upping the intensity of the economy and conflicts.

I want to give DeadAir gate overhaul a try but I don't think it's updated for split vendetta yet, but it massively expands and reorganizes the universe more like a 4X, with large neutral territories for factions to expand into.

Oh and X4 Fire and Smoke which makes stuff blow up gooder.

OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 15:23 on Apr 22, 2020

Communist Bear
Oct 7, 2008



I'm not too sure I like the idea of DeadAir's removal of the highways.

I am the sole person who likes the highways!

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

It is a powerful visual metaphor for my posting.


With the travel drive I honestly don't think they're needed, or necessarily helpful, because they don't do a great deal for actually making ships faster at transiting sectors, but they do make it near impossible to establish any sort of coherent control over the highway sectors because everything just zips through.

If the universe was much much larger then I can see the point, but the loop covers a section that only takes a few minutes to travel across anyway.

The main appeal of the deadair gate overhaul is really that it adds buckets more sectors so the highway wouldn't mean much anyway.

timn
Mar 16, 2010


I've found the highways can become annoying for two reasons:

1. When your travel speed is high enough you'll clip straight through them when trying to get on.

2. With engine and chassis mods your max travel speed will become high enough that it's faster not to use the highway, but the guidance system will still direct you towards it which can make finding your next gate confusing in some sectors.

That said, the highway provides a nice boost in travel efficiency for medium traders and an easy escape route if any of those core sectors become hot. But it's to personal taste. Maybe you like having to deal with the two Xenon K's and an I camping in Hatikvah's Choice. :v:

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

It is a powerful visual metaphor for my posting.


I'd rather blacklist hatikvah's choice if the argon can't secure it :v:

timn
Mar 16, 2010


I actually had a game where the Split took a solid hold of Tharka's Cascade XV from the Xenon. I somewhat regret restarting instead of waiting to see if they'd continue their push into Hatikvah's. The Argon can't catch a break!

Antigravitas
Dec 8, 2019

I accept your surrender



I think I found Eve players :haw:

Less Fat Luke
May 23, 2003

Just the tip!



Exciting Lemon

Or Iain M Banks fans

Antigravitas
Dec 8, 2019

I accept your surrender

True. I mean, who isn't?

Major Isoor
Mar 23, 2011





Plaster Town Cop

OwlFancier posted:

The best mainline combat ship outside of the split is probably the paranid odysseus. Because it has three large gun turrets all capable of firing forward. A K will still be a major threat however as xenon weapons are dangerous, but that will get the most firepower on the target as fast as possible.

But if you really want a capital killer the split are still best, the rattlesnake has four large turrets and the raptor has, like, eight or something? It's probably on par with a xenon I, a combined carrier and battleship.

Hmm, OK then - I didn't realisethe Split were so strong against them! I'll have to go over there and buddy up to them I think, since the Rattlesnake sounds like just the thing, right about now

Less Fat Luke posted:

Or Iain M Banks fans

Hah yeah, I was thinking that too. :D I remember using "Youthful Indiscretion" as my Elite Dangerous Clipper name, thanks to him


EDIT: Hmm, what about the Dragon, as a stopgap at least? Since L+XL ships need 20 relations to buy or something, don't they? (Could be wrong there - might only need 10 like the M ships. Cost is also a factor for me, but it would just mean that I'd have to wait a short while before buying)
Since the Dragon has six guns - if I load 'em up with whatever their anti capital gun is (which is...uh...the thermal disintegrator, at a guess?) And park myself in a K's blind spot, I'm happy even if it takes a while - it's just that my Gorgon simply cannot punch through on its own.

Actually, just thought - how do I mod ships? Maybe that's part of my problem. I hope it doesn't revolve around the Boron's plot, since I haven't even looked at him, after getting the base

Major Isoor fucked around with this message at 23:00 on Apr 22, 2020

Mokotow
Apr 16, 2012



A little tip for a problem that I kept running into - getting my ship stuck in station and asteroid geometry when piloting. Apparently if you let your AI pilot take over, they'll ignore the boundries and zoom right on out of the object - just set a fly to order.

jaffyjaffy
Sep 27, 2010


The OP says the game is in a much better state then when it launched, but would you say that the expansion is required to have a similar quality gameplay experience to X3AP?
GMG has the base game on sale and I'm not sure if I should bite now or keep waiting. I got a hungering for a spaceman game.

Thom12255
Feb 23, 2013
WHERE THE FUCK IS MY MONEY


jaffyjaffy posted:

The OP says the game is in a much better state then when it launched, but would you say that the expansion is required to have a similar quality gameplay experience to X3AP?
GMG has the base game on sale and I'm not sure if I should bite now or keep waiting. I got a hungering for a spaceman game.

If you want to play 'Plots' then you need the Expansion. The game works now unlike on release so you can still do your Empire building in the base game no problem, the expansion just adds a lot more sectors and a few new factions fighting against one another.

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

It is a powerful visual metaphor for my posting.


The dragon is the best corvette but only slightly moreso than the nemesis. There's no M size ship that can really beat a capital ship quickly because they''re an entire weight class above them in terms of shielding and hull strength. You could definitely kill a K with a dragon but it would still take a while, and probably be more attention intensive than using a gorgon cos the guns will keep overheating.

Your best bet would probably be the most shield piercing weapon you can get and focusing down the shield generators with a corvette, but even that will take a while.

You will need to research mods before you can apply them using the reserarch screen, and you apply them at a ship production facility at the ship dealership on the platform, there's a special workbench there.

timn
Mar 16, 2010


I am absolutely thrilled to find out that Xenon P's are slow and lazy enough for me to tag them with my new rattlesnake's main guns.

Xerophyte
Mar 17, 2008

This space intentionally left blank


Communist Bear posted:

I'm not too sure I like the idea of DeadAir's removal of the highways.

I am the sole person who likes the highways!

I decided to go visit X4 again after feeling rather done with Bannerlord for now. I figured I'd try some mods, including the Vendetta version of DeadAir's, to shake things up from when I played before the expansion. I came to the realization that, yeah, I like highways too.

Mainly I miss the sense of terrain much more than the minor extra ease of travel. The highways and especially the loop helped give the impression of various levels of development, and let me mentally divide sectors into some fuzzy categories of "core" vs "frontier" vs "unclaimed". With DeadAir sectors look a lot more similar: a couple of jumpgates at the edge, usually with stations haphazardly thrown around but sometimes not. It was also a pain to figure out where the hell to go to find faction hubs and I'm pretty sure there are important stations I missed.

Also not really sure about a lot of other consequences of things like making the new minor "event" factions like Duke's Buccaneers and Fallen Families proper nations, or how the vastly increased sector distances will interact with station trade, or what the scaled up economy is going to mean for micromanagement, or what the lategame performance is going to be like with a bunch of megafactions.

It does make the raw scale of the game a lot bigger and that might be cool but I think ultimately I'm going to uninstall it and restart on vanilla.

Major Isoor
Mar 23, 2011





Plaster Town Cop

Xerophyte posted:

Mainly I miss the sense of terrain much more than the minor extra ease of travel. The highways and especially the loop helped give the impression of various levels of development, and let me mentally divide sectors into some fuzzy categories of "core" vs "frontier" vs "unclaimed".

Yeah, this is definitely an important aspect of the highways, I agree. I mean, don't get me wrong I do like that it lets me take a break from flying (to instead look at the map and manage other aspects of the game) but it does give a good sense of how well-developed certain sectors are. You can really tell what areas are backwaters, and what sectors are real hubs of commerce, in the core of the Community. (I also quite like that it allows ships I order to go to the opposite end of the galaxy to actually get there in good time, unlike what it used to be like with X3, a bit)

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

It is a powerful visual metaphor for my posting.


I think my gripe with highways is perhaps more the structure of them. The highly developed highway loop that runs directly through, like, two major warzones and only takes about 2-3 minutes to do a complete circuit of?

I think I would like them better if they activated/deactivated on conflict borders and if perhaps they ran through like, the galactic east in X3AP, or up through the center of argon prime to kingdom end on the X3 map so they were actually more useful for long distance travel (as there is basically no long distance travel in X4 yet)

They don't really feel like highways to me, they feel unneccessary. Like a railway line that only goes about 1 mile and it's across a national border for some reason.

OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 07:20 on Apr 23, 2020

Major Isoor
Mar 23, 2011





Plaster Town Cop

Sorry for the dumb question, but do any of you remember if/where any mineral-rich Split sectors are? I spent a fair while tonight looking through Patriarchy space, but they don't actually seem to have ore or silicon deposits anywhere.

So I'm wondering if the Free Families have any, for me to send my miners to, to curry favour with them, so that I can buy their warships.

I mean, I'd go out searching again, but Ks are wreaking havoc in a Patriarchy Split sector and Teladi space, so I definitely think I need to devote myself to tackling them when I play tomorrow, while my miners are (hopefully) sent off somewhere, to earn me a bit of cash while making friends for me.

timn
Mar 16, 2010


For ore I believe Family Zhin is the sector you're looking for. IIRC the last time I set up a station there my gas miners were going next door to another sector, but it's not an issue for them to do that

BlankSystemDaemon
Mar 13, 2009

System Access Node Not Found:ins:



Can I just ask, who the gently caress decided that aligning with the ecliptic plane makes sense? It's a space sim, there's 6-DOF for a damned reason!

I had the massively useful idea of buying the fastest paranid scout, equipping it with the cheapest beam weapon, and having it follow (not escort) my ship and auto-flee if attacked. That way I can teleport to it and use it to open lockboxes really easily. Its name, of course, is 'Key'.

Alchenar posted:

Oh, also what control scheme do people use?
X52 Pro HOTAS with custom layout - because the one the game ships with has all sorts of weirdness.
Stuff I've done includes but isn't limited to:
  • Move boost and stop engine to the small RX-Axis (the small twist-button) on the throttle
  • Switch next and previous weapon for primary and secondary groups - they were reverse of what makes sense when you're looking at the indicators on the HUD
  • Rebind the match target speed to the U-axis on the controller - this makes it run continuously if you want it to
  • Rebind targeting so that up locks target - which works because when there's no target it simply targets the closest object, which is what it defaults to
  • Rebind looking around in the cockpit to the 4-way hat on the joystick
  • Move cargo vacuum to U-axis on the throttle
  • Rebind next surface element to the clutch

If anyone is using an X52 or X52 Pro, you may also find a lot of use from printing or having this on a second display:

(I didn't make it, but I can't remember the source)

BlankSystemDaemon fucked around with this message at 14:28 on Apr 23, 2020

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

It is a powerful visual metaphor for my posting.


Major Isoor posted:

Sorry for the dumb question, but do any of you remember if/where any mineral-rich Split sectors are? I spent a fair while tonight looking through Patriarchy space, but they don't actually seem to have ore or silicon deposits anywhere.

So I'm wondering if the Free Families have any, for me to send my miners to, to curry favour with them, so that I can buy their warships.

I mean, I'd go out searching again, but Ks are wreaking havoc in a Patriarchy Split sector and Teladi space, so I definitely think I need to devote myself to tackling them when I play tomorrow, while my miners are (hopefully) sent off somewhere, to earn me a bit of cash while making friends for me.

The split are actually terminally under supplied with minerals, it's why their economy is so prone to crashing because the xenon take zhin and then have no resources to produce ships any more. It's an interesting idea compared to the absurd ubiquity of resources in the rest of the map but the AI can't quite handle it alas.

FRF by contrast have a resource rich home sector in heart of acrimony and several of the thuruk's ravine sectors have rocks and gas.

Krogort
Oct 27, 2013


Major Isoor posted:

Sorry for the dumb question, but do any of you remember if/where any mineral-rich Split sectors are? I spent a fair while tonight looking through Patriarchy space, but they don't actually seem to have ore or silicon deposits anywhere.


Family Zhin and Family Nhuut have some minerals.
However family Zhin is a highway between 2 xenon matrix so it can be hard to keep safe is the patriarchy is slaking.
In my game the Xenon coming from the north almost wiped it out and I had to build big defense stations at both end of Matrix 598. I play with VRO and those shipyards feel invulnerable, I went there with 3 destroyer, 1 battleship and about 25 gunboats and I got completely destroyed, only the destroyers escaped.



I have finaly been able to save 100 millions and purchased the S/M assembly module. This feel like a licence to print money as long as you can feed it ship parts...
Luckily I had build medium complexes to serve the local shipyard in the area so the material are flowing but it is insane how much more money than regular station this thing is making.
Maybe I can finaly clear those xenon now.

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

It is a powerful visual metaphor for my posting.


If you're using VRO you generally want range to siege down heavily defended stations, just park them at maximum range with heavy lances or gauss cannons or something with 20km range, then shell it.

You might also want to invest in range mods for your turrets if needs be.

Alternatively there's probably a missile in the VRO arsenal that will work well for sieging down stations, but they can be expensive.

Krogort
Oct 27, 2013


OwlFancier posted:

If you're using VRO you generally want range to siege down heavily defended stations, just park them at maximum range with heavy lances or gauss cannons or something with 20km range, then shell it.

You might also want to invest in range mods for your turrets if needs be.

Alternatively there's probably a missile in the VRO arsenal that will work well for sieging down stations, but they can be expensive.

Might need some range mods yes, the xenon tower pack some very nasty super long range guns.
Missiles can be a good option yes, I have a complex making ton of component for those so it should be doable if I get a auxiliary ship to build the missiles. I havn't tried those yet.

Beefeater1980
Sep 12, 2008

My God, it's full of Horatios!





Iíve reached a point now where my cash is stable at around 20-30M, and when it gets more than that I go buy something new. Young gun start.

Iíve got:

PHQ that just does research.

Refinery in Argon Prime just off the highway that takes in ore, methane and silicon and spits out refined metals, graphene and silicon wafers.

Hull parts and weapon parts plant next door to the refinery.

A ton of miners and traders servicing the argon prime stations.

A couple of other traders distributing wares in Hatikvahís wossname, where a 110 credit per unit gap has opened up for graphene and refined metals between two stations quite close to each other.

Having established this base Iím a bit lost in where to go next. I could:

- keep building more hull parts, weapon parts and advanced tech so as to keep the Argon war machine humming, and make cash off that.

- Start building my own autarkic closed loop system so that I can get a proper fleet going.

- Run missions I guess in a frigate with a little S class ship on board?

I always find the progression in this game weird.

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

It is a powerful visual metaphor for my posting.


I think some of the plots give you some long term economic goals, but yeah otherwise you're looking at trying to transition into a state power, basically. Fully self sufficient manufacturing, sector ownership, and painting the map.

BlankSystemDaemon
Mar 13, 2009

System Access Node Not Found:ins:



A setup that works well for me is a HOP Nemesis with the most expensive ship loadout with: 2 bolt repeaters (useful for any enemy) in front with an ion blaster in the middle to destroy shields, along with two shard batteries on the side bound to secondary fire for me to unload into enemies once the shields are down.
With this setup I can take out equal-class Xenon ships in a matter of seconds, and bigger ships still go down surprisingly quick.
I do wish I had a tertiary weapon group for missiles, though.

Also, I found the weirdest thing in Argon Prime:


Does anyone know what it is?

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

It is a powerful visual metaphor for my posting.


A reused asset from Rebirth :v:

It's just decoration, it doesn't do anything.

It made more sense in its original context where it was a mysterious structure in a xenon sector but apparently they felt like Argon Prime needed one too.

OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 16:33 on Apr 23, 2020

BlankSystemDaemon
Mar 13, 2009

System Access Node Not Found:ins:



OwlFancier posted:

A reused asset from Rebirth :v:

It's just decoration, it doesn't do anything.

It made more sense in its original context where it was a mysterious structure in a xenon sector but apparently they felt like Argon Prime needed one too.
So it's a Xenon nano-scale invasion!

Thom12255
Feb 23, 2013
WHERE THE FUCK IS MY MONEY


D. Ebdrup posted:

A setup that works well for me is a HOP Nemesis with the most expensive ship loadout with: 2 bolt repeaters (useful for any enemy) in front with an ion blaster in the middle to destroy shields, along with two shard batteries on the side bound to secondary fire for me to unload into enemies once the shields are down.
With this setup I can take out equal-class Xenon ships in a matter of seconds, and bigger ships still go down surprisingly quick.
I do wish I had a tertiary weapon group for missiles, though.

Also, I found the weirdest thing in Argon Prime:


Does anyone know what it is?

I believe it has a Codex entry where it says they made it to provide them huge amounts of water while the gates were shut-down. I don't really understand why you would put that in space though.

Mokotow
Apr 16, 2012



Just noticed the timeline video about the first Xenon invasion uses recordings from the first XBTF. Cute.

Vietnom nom nom
Oct 24, 2000
Forum Veteran


I keep reading things that state that building a single monolithic production facility is both inefficient and maybe even slows the game down. I'm doing the typical PHQ big facility, and was wondering if anyone had insight into how big a deal that really is.

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Less Fat Luke
May 23, 2003

Just the tip!



Exciting Lemon

Vietnom nom nom posted:

I keep reading things that state that building a single monolithic production facility is both inefficient and maybe even slows the game down. I'm doing the typical PHQ big facility, and was wondering if anyone had insight into how big a deal that really is.

There are framerate hits at hundreds of modules but you can just stay out of sector at that point. One big difference too is that in a megaplex only one thing can be built at once, so you'll more likely build separate complexes just to get around that as opposed to performance but if you're patient with one builder you can still go super crazy, whatever suits you.

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