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Antigravitas
Dec 8, 2019

I accept your surrender

Mr. Crow posted:

Probably the wrong place but any of y'all get this working on Linux? Any issues with mods?

I haven't used mods in a while, but since they are all cross-platform stuff (munging xml files mostly) they should be fine.

Game itself is running well on Linux, except that alt-tabbing always minimises the game and alt-tabbing back to the game leads to a load screen. No idea if that is the same on Windows as well.

(This is on an AMD card btw)

Antigravitas fucked around with this message at 12:09 on Mar 25, 2020

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pixaal
Jan 8, 2004

All ice cream is now for all beings, no matter how many legs.




Antigravitas posted:

I haven't used mods in a while, but since they are all cross-platform stuff (munging xml files mostly) they should be fine.

Game itself is running well on Linux, except that alt-tabbing always minimises the game and alt-tabbing back to the game leads to a load screen. No idea if that is the same on Windows as well.

(This is on an AMD card btw)

Sounds like you are in full screen not full screen windowed. Full screen games tend to do things like pause when they lose focus.

Antigravitas
Dec 8, 2019

I accept your surrender

No, that's windowed mode. I never use full screen anywhere because applications can't deal with this:

TheDeadlyShoe
Feb 14, 2014

pretense is my co-pilot


OwlFancier posted:

Yeah not the best trailer in the world but I like the new split ship designs and the new effects. Not entirely sure why they put in footage of stuff that's already in the game though.

I did notice like, a giant lockbox though with seemingly eight locks on it, which I think is new?

Nah the 8-lock boxes have always been in x4, just rare.

...


they can still just be full of mines though :(

Shalebridge Cradle posted:

I don't think I've ever seen one of my carriers actually use those tubes, but yeah.

Gotta say I'm a little disappointed with that trailer. The new ships were very nice, I liked them a lot, but the rest didn't really seem to be any different than X4 as have now. Opening up lockboxes and data vaults is nothing new. The research screen was just the same thing as before.

That carrier was really cool though.

Putting the research screen in the trailer was straight up funny. The person putting it together must be working off a checklist or something... X4 Research is so placeholder it hurts.

Thom12255
Feb 23, 2013
WHERE THE FUCK IS MY MONEY


This is basically a relaunch of the game right? They're probably angling for a lot of people that didn't pick up the game at release because everyone knows X games need 2 years of patching to be worth buying.

pixaal
Jan 8, 2004

All ice cream is now for all beings, no matter how many legs.




Thom12255 posted:

This is basically a relaunch of the game right? They're probably angling for a lot of people that didn't pick up the game at release because everyone knows X games need 2 years of patching to be worth buying.

First expansion, think of it more like an MMO expansion. Lots of stuff is changing but it's the same core. Due to lots of stuff being done at game generation you are best starting over, and in MMOs expansions often mean leveling the playing field a bit.

If you aren't familiar with MMOs, well it's a soft reset on everything. Playing saves across some of the major patches caused some fun bugs in X3 if I remember correctly.

TheDeadlyShoe
Feb 14, 2014

pretense is my co-pilot


X4's architecture is pretty resilient to changes. For the most part, you should be fine patching an existing game to Split Vendetta - they've already added new sectors to 3.0 without significant issue, for example.

I think the biggest patch issue is spawned Xenon warships that could be an issue if you have assets in or near Xenon space.

pixaal
Jan 8, 2004

All ice cream is now for all beings, no matter how many legs.




TheDeadlyShoe posted:

X4's architecture is pretty resilient to changes. For the most part, you should be fine patching an existing game to Split Vendetta - they've already added new sectors to 3.0 without significant issue, for example.

I think the biggest patch issue is spawned Xenon warships that could be an issue if you have assets in or near Xenon space.

Wasn't there a big difference between launch day saves and ones a month or two later? Like the entire economy was completely hosed?

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

It is a powerful visual metaphor for my posting.


TheDeadlyShoe posted:

X4's architecture is pretty resilient to changes. For the most part, you should be fine patching an existing game to Split Vendetta - they've already added new sectors to 3.0 without significant issue, for example.

I think the biggest patch issue is spawned Xenon warships that could be an issue if you have assets in or near Xenon space.

For reference I've been running the same save from 1.0 right through beta 3.0 and it works fine.

pixaal posted:

Wasn't there a big difference between launch day saves and ones a month or two later? Like the entire economy was completely hosed?

They made a bunch of major economic changes but the nice thing about 3.0 is that it retroactively fixes old problems for the most part, like the economy will rejigger to fix up deficits.

Antigravitas
Dec 8, 2019

I accept your surrender

pixaal posted:

Wasn't there a big difference between launch day saves and ones a month or two later? Like the entire economy was completely hosed?

The economy largely ground to a halt due to saturation in most areas except for a few critical components. With more aggressive factions comes more demand for material and I think they tweaked NPC trader jobs to be more aggressive as well.

It should be noted that since the economy is actually simulated slight imbalances can go wildly out of control given enough time, which is obviously horrifically hard to do QA on.

I haven't tried reviving an old save, but old economies should slowly restart in 3.0. More ships get blown up, causing ship yards to start producing again, causing demand for many goods.

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

It is a powerful visual metaphor for my posting.


The overal strategic management AI will also delete superfluous factories quite aggressively. One thing my save had inherited was that every sector had dozens and dozens of factories in it, like massive density of production, most of those got scrapped when I loaded it into 3.0 within a few hours.

pixaal
Jan 8, 2004

All ice cream is now for all beings, no matter how many legs.




I still plan on starting a new save after the first or second bug fix patch, I'm going to have the time to build a big sprawling capitalist empire and don't want to figure out where I left it off several months ago.

I still can't make a viable living as a space weed farmer right? Not enough buyers for illegal goods?

Oh dear me
Aug 14, 2012

I have burned numerous saucepans, sometimes right through the metal

Are seminars still useless?

Anticheese
Feb 13, 2008

$60,000,000 sexbot
:rodimus:



Oh dear me posted:

Are seminars still useless?

Them having a use is a headline feature for 3.0 heh.

Is there any indication of the next expansion? Possibly Terrans?

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

It is a powerful visual metaphor for my posting.


pixaal posted:

I still plan on starting a new save after the first or second bug fix patch, I'm going to have the time to build a big sprawling capitalist empire and don't want to figure out where I left it off several months ago.

I still can't make a viable living as a space weed farmer right? Not enough buyers for illegal goods?

Unless they added something no, there's no industrial or life support use for illegal goods, making them among the least valuable goods in the world, for some odd reason. Food and medical supplies you can sell all over the place, and anything in the ship production chain is wanted too, but there is no consumption demand for drugs.

Mr. Crow
May 22, 2008

Snap City mayor for life


Antigravitas posted:

I haven't used mods in a while, but since they are all cross-platform stuff (munging xml files mostly) they should be fine.

Game itself is running well on Linux, except that alt-tabbing always minimises the game and alt-tabbing back to the game leads to a load screen. No idea if that is the same on Windows as well.

(This is on an AMD card btw)

:hfive:

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008



Fun Shoe

Antigravitas posted:

The economy largely ground to a halt due to saturation in most areas except for a few critical components. With more aggressive factions comes more demand for material and I think they tweaked NPC trader jobs to be more aggressive as well.

It should be noted that since the economy is actually simulated slight imbalances can go wildly out of control given enough time, which is obviously horrifically hard to do QA on.

I haven't tried reviving an old save, but old economies should slowly restart in 3.0. More ships get blown up, causing ship yards to start producing again, causing demand for many goods.

Have they ever done anything to add more of a non-warfare driven economy? One of the things that bugged me about X4 at release was that there was a bunch of stuff that had no actual economic purpose - you'd just sell it to trading stations that exist solely to eat that stuff.

Rhjamiz
Oct 28, 2007



Anticheese posted:

Them having a use is a headline feature for 3.0 heh.

Is there any indication of the next expansion? Possibly Terrans?

I forget, are borons in? I want manta ray spacecraft

TheDeadlyShoe
Feb 14, 2014

pretense is my co-pilot


There's only one boron and he dun have a spaceship.


The Cheshire Cat posted:

Have they ever done anything to add more of a non-warfare driven economy? One of the things that bugged me about X4 at release was that there was a bunch of stuff that had no actual economic purpose - you'd just sell it to trading stations that exist solely to eat that stuff.

AFAIK, Trading stations in x4 don't eat goods like in x3, other then from their workforce like all stations. They are more big warehouses.

Everything around illegal stuff is pretty much underdeveloped...

Major Isoor
Mar 23, 2011





Plaster Town Cop

TheDeadlyShoe posted:

Everything around illegal stuff is pretty much underdeveloped...

drat, so what you're saying is, rebuilding my old X3TC self-sufficient space weed+space fuel factory won't be worthwhile? :( I guess it's time to set up an arms factory and churn out guns and ship parts, for the war on the Terraformers

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008



Fun Shoe

Major Isoor posted:

drat, so what you're saying is, rebuilding my old X3TC self-sufficient space weed+space fuel factory won't be worthwhile? :( I guess it's time to set up an arms factory and churn out guns and ship parts, for the war on the Terraformers

You can still make money on illegal goods, they just don't actually do anything in the economy. Trading stations will buy anything and they have a fixed buy/sell price at exactly halfway between every good's min and max price.

Major Isoor
Mar 23, 2011





Plaster Town Cop

The Cheshire Cat posted:

You can still make money on illegal goods, they just don't actually do anything in the economy. Trading stations will buy anything and they have a fixed buy/sell price at exactly halfway between every good's min and max price.

Hmm. Well, would random traders still buy it from me? Or, if there's no real demand, would I need to get my own cargo ships to offload the drugs at the trading stations myself?

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

It is a powerful visual metaphor for my posting.


They're very hard to offload and there is minimal capacity, I think trading stations will slowly... lose illegal poo poo you sell them, also nividium. But it's extremely slow if so. There is basically no demand and you will make basically no money unless you sell them proactively and even then there is a very limited sale capacity for them.

But this only really affects like, four products. The three illegal wares and nividium (which you can still mine early game for cash with a mining ship)

Everything else works great and the existence of the actual production driven economy makes it much better, IMO. Cos it actually has a real effect on the world.

Oh and I guess energy cells don't sell either but that's because they're so ubiquitous and you can just glue a solar panel onto your station to solve energy supply. There's no artificial scarcity of the things like in X3.

You can make self sufficient factories just fine, or rather "self sufficient" in the sense they mine their own poo poo with ships and spit out spaceships at the other end. Which is pretty cool IMO.

There's a nice granular effect of adding more and more refinement steps to factories to either make better end products, or accept more unrefined inputs, and increase your profit margins either way.

TBH I don't really know why they don't add an illegal ware consumption to habitats given that's exactly how they use food/medicine, just a constant consumption based on occupancy. But it's fairly minor that they don't. Also maybe a secondary production chain that uses nividium to make some things, like the teladi production chain for hull parts that uses a different set of modules and inputs.

OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 08:54 on Mar 26, 2020

Major Isoor
Mar 23, 2011





Plaster Town Cop

Hah, ok that's interesting - so no need for a giant meat cahoona production line, for a self-sufficient energy cell factory, then? :D
Sounds good. I might just make ship parts, I guess. (Actually, I remember reading that you can get blueprints for ships...would building and selling fighters be profitable? I guess it might not be, if I need to buy the components though)

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

It is a powerful visual metaphor for my posting.


Major Isoor posted:

Hah, ok that's interesting - so no need for a giant meat cahoona production line, for a self-sufficient energy cell factory, then? :D
Sounds good. I might just make ship parts, I guess. (Actually, I remember reading that you can get blueprints for ships...would building and selling fighters be profitable? I guess it might not be, if I need to buy the components though)

Building ships is insanely proiftable because they have an absolutely absurd markup. But the shipyard blueprints and the blueprints for each ship are a huge layout too so it makes sense.

But before that you can still work up to it by converting ore to say, hull parts. Which are used in shipyards and there's a high demand for them, and you can also use your own hull parts to expand your own stations, by shipping them to builder ships working on your stations, so you're essentially bootstrapping your own station construction which is pretty neat. As you get more money and blueprints you can set up more production chains to produce more kinds of components, and then towards the end you'll have enough to set up full scale ship production and then you can feed all those resources into your own shipyards.

Foodstuffs aren't ever required but if you slap habitat modules on your station, they need food and medicine to upkeep their population, having enough population on your station increases their work efficiency, so it's basically the X3 secondary resources system, but for all stations.

Antigravitas
Dec 8, 2019

I accept your surrender

Btw., one thing that still disappoints me is the lack of missile variety. X3TC has so many FUN missiles that are a joy to use. I'd always expend a lot of them in a fight and then call in a tender to stock back up. In X4 there are just generic missiles and those aren't fun at all.

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

It is a powerful visual metaphor for my posting.


The VRO mod re-adds a shitload of X3 missiles but I admit I never actually bothered with missiles in X3 precisely because they were all over the place.

I also wasn't super fond of the balance given that a missile destroyer was capable of clearing entire sectors by itself if you put enough missiles in it.

Antigravitas
Dec 8, 2019

I accept your surrender

Well yes, M7M are hilariously overpowered, but so are cruise missile bombers. And you can blow yourself up with several missile variants if you don't stop shooting your guns while you launch them. And there are swarm missiles for use against small fighters, larger missiles that will hurt heavy fighters, dumb torpedoes (several variants), fast dumbfire rockets that can be used against missiles, cruise missiles…

I always build a personal supply fab in X3TC that produces a mix of missiles. They are pretty.

Major Isoor
Mar 23, 2011





Plaster Town Cop

Thanks guys; I think I'll have to get X4SV in a few days and pass on Bannerlord for now. I think I'll do as you suggest and manufacture lots of hull plates, then branch out once I have the cash (and surplus hull plates) to do so.

I'll definitely aim to try and build some fighters and maybe carriers too, eventually. To both sell and use as my sector security, etc.
Speaking of which, does having a load of stations and ships in a sector impact performance much, in X4? Since I vaguely recall there being issues in X3TC, when you get a huge station going.

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

It is a powerful visual metaphor for my posting.


Performance is a bit odd, and to a degree it depends how you build your stations. I have one giant station that produces basically everything (because there's no real reason not to do that) and you get noticeable slowdown near it or especially when you land on it, but it's never gotten as bad as X3 complex tubes, and it also I think has a lot more to do with the close in geometry. If you spread your stations around more it'll probably run a lot better.

I think though I haven't been able to confirm, also, that if you build stations close enough together then the tiny ships that buzz around them will allow them to share resources, but again I haven't tested it so I don't know if that's true or not. I did read something about it though.

Broadly though you can totally just keep your megafactories a little bit further away and they run fine at a distance, it's only if you fly right up to a very big and dense one that it'll start to chug a bit. Which I mean, you can't really do anything about, if the player stuffs ten times as much geometry into the same space it's gonna chug.

Like this thing runs a bit slow if you stick your face in it:



But I'm not on a particularly powerful PC either so I'm not complaining.

For scale the docking boom at the bottom has two large landing pads on top, and the large rectangular pads are for medium size ships.

OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 11:18 on Mar 26, 2020

Darkhold
Feb 19, 2011

No Heart
No Soul
No Service

Missed the illegal goods discussion but if anyone's curious here's what a saturated market looks like without me doing manual trades:


So several stations selling for an hour make about 400-500k. For biological goods I'd say they're about the best. Medical supplies comes close which lands in the high 300k range. Tech goods crush bio goods though so if you are looking for profit that's the way to go.

Obviously this also is highly affected by placement this just happens to be a universe where I have stations pretty much every two sectors.

TheDeadlyShoe
Feb 14, 2014

pretense is my co-pilot


so apparently theyve decided that all hired pilots will now also start at 0-1 skill stars

which, imo, is totally bonkers. How are you supposed to maintain a combat fleet? Skill 1 pilots are terrible, and you suffer losses in any real combat.

I can only presume this is to stop people from spamming auto-miners and auto-traders exponentially to slow the game down, like the crystals nerf, but crew skill is already among the most annoying and pointlessly micro-heavy aspects of the game.

If they want to limit auto-mining or auto-trading they should just lock those behind seminars and let regular pilots not suck.

Darkhold
Feb 19, 2011

No Heart
No Soul
No Service

Well that's just terrible. Training already sucks.

Do they explain this anywhere?

Demiurge4
Aug 10, 2011



I bet its a pacing thing. Don't forget these are oldschool developers with weird hangups about what constitutes good gameplay.

Section Z
Oct 1, 2008

Wait, this is the Moon.
How did I even get here?

Pillbug

TheDeadlyShoe posted:

so apparently theyve decided that all hired pilots will now also start at 0-1 skill stars

which, imo, is totally bonkers. How are you supposed to maintain a combat fleet? Skill 1 pilots are terrible, and you suffer losses in any real combat.

I can only presume this is to stop people from spamming auto-miners and auto-traders exponentially to slow the game down, like the crystals nerf, but crew skill is already among the most annoying and pointlessly micro-heavy aspects of the game.

If they want to limit auto-mining or auto-trading they should just lock those behind seminars and let regular pilots not suck.


Darkhold posted:

Well that's just terrible. Training already sucks.

Do they explain this anywhere?

While it isn't as bad as it was during launch? The main results of early on increases in skill stopgaps seemed to honestly be extending the wait time between saying "You just need to be more patient! It gets better! No fair complaining about low skill" and "Well... Works fine for me!" when you trained a guy up and still watch them try to tunnel through the side of a station rather than dock, the grumblings about mysterious base logic, etc.

Making sure the low end works is important and you can't check that if everything is high skill fast, but you'd figure the high end would be godlike by now if they want you to work your way up to it so bad.

Section Z fucked around with this message at 00:22 on Mar 30, 2020

Squiggle
Sep 29, 2002

I don't think she likes the special sauce, Rick.



Soiled Meat

Got itchy and decided to jump into a new game on the beta branch today to see what's in store, and good lord it seems like they've made a lot of progress since I played at launch. It seems to run much better too, and one of the new starts in particular is a great jumpstart.

C'mon, Split, be good...

pixaal
Jan 8, 2004

All ice cream is now for all beings, no matter how many legs.




It they want pilot skill levels why not add some kind of training school we can have at the station maybe require ships to be part of the school and an instructor which you have to field train yourself.

You still have a friend but now it turns into training a steady supply of pilots.

Antigravitas
Dec 8, 2019

I accept your surrender

quote:

[Beta 10 HF 2] Fixed ships with very unskilled crews never deciding to flee.

:allears:

Nicodemus Dumps
Jan 8, 2006

Just chillin' in the sink




Flashes of Red Squad from DS9

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Taerkar
Dec 7, 2002

kind of into it, really



I know it's really not any different from an autopilot but I rather enjoy being chauffered around by a hired pilot, allowing me to do base management work without worrying (too much) about flying about.

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