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Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010

USNews: Biden approves $735M weapons sale to Israel


College Slice

Darth Walrus posted:

I do find it unlikely that the story as presented so far is going to come down on the side of 'the divine right of kings is good, actually', and while it seems quite plausible that Huo Sho Ming Huang is going to be a lot more responsible for the decline of Xie You than he's led Wan to believe, that still leaves Shang with the same moral dilemma about how he should use the power he's claimed.

People are brought up in the pre-existing social context; people are raised in such societies to be loyal to the government and to the sovereign; if you look at it from a vaguely confucian way, there is a natural order, a hierarchy that to be good and virtuous you must abide by for society to be moral and upstanding. Shang will have been raised in some sort of pastiche of ancient chinese cultural contexts and governing philosophical and cultural traditions which will heavily weigh on his likely thinking. Which brings us back to, "unless push comes to shove Shang probably views the ruling family as legitimate, and the idea of overthrowing them and installing himself would be incomprehensible to him".

I don't think it automatically means "the divine right of kings is good", it is just the existing context in which the setting exists and is neutral and I don't think is meant to say something about it one way or another.

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Elephant Ambush
Nov 13, 2012

...We shoulde spenden more time together. What sayest thou?




Nap Ghost

Raenir Salazar posted:

Whatshisface even specified that the Royal Family were divinely appointed, so there's some manner of Mandate of Heaven happening in the setting.

For example, let us suppose that the Emperor has visions of the future, and knows that without the Sword Index, the nation will fall and be destroyed eventually no matter what they do. That even if they are replaced with a Wise and Virtuous ruler with skilled and loyal Generals, without the Sword Index and the willingness to use their, their position is strategically too precarious; they will eventually fall.

If we assume this is true for the sake of the argument for a moment (we know the Emperor is hidden away for some reason, we just don't know why) this would switch your perspective around wouldn't it? Then what's right and whats wrong don't remain still, but are fluid. Reading Machiavelli sometimes whats best for the people isn't doing things "for the public good" but is squashing your opposition as swiftly and ruthlessly as possible so you don't tax your people excessively paying for wars.

The peace and stability of Xi Yu later vs peace and stability now but inevitably destruction?

So I think looking at legitimacy through the lens of "are they good rulers?" is a really complicated question; the CGP Grey video "Rules for Rulers" encapsulates this well; but I think the point is regardless as to whether they are legitimate or not; our Hero is not willing to make that determination.

The Emperor is in hiding because of a prophecy given by an oracle. We don't know who the oracle is or what the prophecy is right now but I bet we'll find out and it wouldn't surprise me if the oracle was Kei Gai or another demon in disguise or something.

And Shou doesn't want to use the swords for a ton of very valid reasons and it sucks that now he has to confront the downsides of keeping the Index and not using it. But he's definitely in the right for doing so. As long as these things exist there is a risk of them falling into the wrong hands and everything getting hosed up in spectacular ways, including another possible invasion from the Demon realm and another War of the Fading Dusk. It sucks that Sei Yu patriots and soldiers are getting hosed over and betrayed by their leaders but Shou using the swords to drive off invaders is only going to bolster the standing of a lovely and corrupt monarchy that doesn't give a poo poo about its people anyway. Then we have The Bug Gang who are openly declaring "we are 100% certain that we are the best possible rulers of this nation" and people who say that are always pieces of poo poo who become despotic tyrants who eventually become imperialists. There is no way The Bug Gang wants to protect and save Sei Yu. That's just what Locust Wizard is telling people. If he got the Index he would absolutely go on a planet-conquering rampage.

Elephant Ambush fucked around with this message at 19:07 on Apr 20, 2021

Brought To You By
Oct 31, 2012


I had a chuckle when our mysterious mechanist insulted Monks swordfu and he had to restrain himself from killing him on the spot. Then he got left behind behind. I hope he comes back to get his revenge and the arm he built

Space Flower
Sep 10, 2014



if a kugimiya rie princess wanted to slowly run my country to the ground i would simply offer myself up just like based tm revolution did this week

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



Lin starting to manipulate the villains => me

Captain_duck
Dec 3, 2005

I swear nice bushes!

Demon witch lady found the Aoi Yuuki sword, and its apparently her sister? Looks like she gets released from the sword next week.

Sindai
Jan 24, 2007
i want to achieve immortality through not dying

lmao Lin just immediately going to work.

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010

USNews: Biden approves $735M weapons sale to Israel


College Slice

I think we got our answer to the "Why isn't Shang just healing people?" Can't be used in combat it seems.

Sindai posted:

lmao Lin just immediately going to work.


Turin Turambar posted:

Lin starting to manipulate the villains => me

I just love it to bits. He's just too good at this. And he doesn't even have to, it's just his HOBBY.


Captain_duck posted:

Demon witch lady found the Aoi Yuuki sword, and its apparently her sister? Looks like she gets released from the sword next week.

Hell yeah. Getting the better version of "I was reincarnated as a Sword"!

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
This space intentionally left blank.


Can Booch finally give our boy Lin a W for once? It's been two for two where his target has taken their L in stride, Lin is a very sore winner and he needs that ego boost.

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010

USNews: Biden approves $735M weapons sale to Israel


College Slice

Phobophilia posted:

Can Booch finally give our boy Lin a W for once? It's been two for two where his target has taken their L in stride, Lin is a very sore winner and he needs that ego boost.

So what exactly happened with that, my understanding was that his last target the guy from the place Shang is from decided to just turn to banditry which is... I presume underachieving? And Lin is upset at that instead of scheming to take over the world or something the guy decided to be okay with just robbing random people?

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012




Raenir Salazar posted:

So what exactly happened with that, my understanding was that his last target the guy from the place Shang is from decided to just turn to banditry which is... I presume underachieving? And Lin is upset at that instead of scheming to take over the world or something the guy decided to be okay with just robbing random people?

And also that he was happy coming up with a Plan B when Plan A didn't work out, precisely because he was too lacking in ambition to care much when Lin screwed him over.

The odds on him poking Wan into a genuine crisis of conscience seem pretty high, at least.

Elephant Ambush
Nov 13, 2012

...We shoulde spenden more time together. What sayest thou?




Nap Ghost

Phobophilia posted:

Can Booch finally give our boy Lin a W for once? It's been two for two where his target has taken their L in stride, Lin is a very sore winner and he needs that ego boost.

I hope not. Vape Wizard is a huge piece of poo poo and watching him get owned every season is a highlight.

Kwyndig
Sep 23, 2006

Heeeeeeey




But Vape Wizard is my second favorite character, I want to see him actually win for once.

gimme the GOD DAMN candy
Jul 1, 2007


the first movie showed what it looks like when lin wins, and drat is it ugly.

Elephant Ambush
Nov 13, 2012

...We shoulde spenden more time together. What sayest thou?




Nap Ghost

gimme the GOD drat candy posted:

the first movie showed what it looks like when lin wins, and drat is it ugly.

And at the end of season 1 he "won" and almost caused the end of the world. Give me more Hunting Foxes to own him up and down.

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010

USNews: Biden approves $735M weapons sale to Israel


College Slice

Lin is basically like Loki; he's a trickster who keeps getting owned in a karmic way and its funny.

Elephant Ambush
Nov 13, 2012

...We shoulde spenden more time together. What sayest thou?




Nap Ghost

I finally had time to watch this week's episode and WOW was that a lovely cliffhanger. Waiting another week is gonna suck.

Kei Gai is still my favorite villain. I just love how she's voiced and how uniquely she's puppeteered. Most of the other puppets, when they're not fighting, have a lot of similar body language but Kei Gai is almost totally unique in every way.

And wait, sisterS? Plural? Oh poo poo!

Oh yeah and Vape Wizard is gonna get owned super hard again this season lmao

pray for my aunt
Feb 13, 2012

14980c8b8a96fd9e279796a61cf82c9c

Lmao at Ling Ya going quiet when blue bard lady popped up. My assumption is that she is PISSED about being left behind. That, or there's some sour history involving the blindfold.

Can Of Worms
Sep 4, 2011

That's not how the Triangle Attack works...


Ling Ya specifically said not to mention who sent them, so if there's any beef it's likely with Shang. Also suspecting that the blindfold means we are not going to see more blue bard action.

Elephant Ambush
Nov 13, 2012

...We shoulde spenden more time together. What sayest thou?




Nap Ghost

Can Of Worms posted:

Ling Ya specifically said not to mention who sent them, so if there's any beef it's likely with Shang. Also suspecting that the blindfold means we are not going to see more blue bard action.

I'm wondering if she's either been blinded in combat since we last saw her or if she's trying to learn how to fight blind like Rou Fu Yo

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



What, not comments about the freaking nendoroid appearing in the show ? Pretty funny.

The backstory of 7BD is was nice to see. Well, not 'nice', you understand me.

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010

USNews: Biden approves $735M weapons sale to Israel


College Slice

Turin Turambar posted:

What, not comments about the freaking nendoroid appearing in the show ? Pretty funny.

The backstory of 7BD is was nice to see. Well, not 'nice', you understand me.

Maaaaaaaan. Also explains a few things!

But yeah, man, this episode kinda cements demons as evil huh.

Sindai
Jan 24, 2007
i want to achieve immortality through not dying

Not much to talk about this episode, but I'm looking forward to Lin meeting Xing Hai again next episode. The fact he's already got his hooks into her new allies should drive her crazy.

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



Raenir Salazar posted:

Maaaaaaaan. Also explains a few things!

But yeah, man, this episode kinda cements demons as evil huh.

Yep, thinking about it again, I liked how -specifically- evil are the demons here, shown in this episode, instead of being 'vaguely evil' like in some animes, where they want to defeat the good guys and whatever.

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010

USNews: Biden approves $735M weapons sale to Israel


College Slice

I mean I kinda like it when demons are just like, a fantasy people like Elves or whatever; and maybe they just happen to have a war like culture like Sparta and being led by imperialists or whatever and just doing ~politics~ or whatever, like being drow. Because it lets you have say, a demon character who isn't just self-interested like Xinghai but maybe are capable of acting morally even if albeit by somewhat orange/green alienlike morality. Like for a brief moment you could imagine at the end of last season that 7BD was so traumatized by Simp Monk that maybe its possible for some demons in the show to be redeemed.

Maybe its still possible, but clearly none of the demons we've seen so far have that capacity and that door is currently very firmly shut.

So its a little disappointing but you're right it is very different from the norm.

Brutal Garcon
Nov 2, 2014



Xing Hai (and maybe 7bd) seems far from self-interested, she's still working for her old bosses' purposes, centuries after they seemed to give up on their invasion.

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010

USNews: Biden approves $735M weapons sale to Israel


College Slice

Brutal Garcon posted:

Xing Hai (and maybe 7bd) seems far from self-interested, she's still working for her old bosses' purposes, centuries after they seemed to give up on their invasion.

I was referencing specifically how she was willing to work with Shang/Lin out of rational self-interest in the sense it served her goals (regardless if her goals are to server a master by proxy).

Lemon-Lime
Aug 6, 2009


Raenir Salazar posted:

Maybe its still possible, but clearly none of the demons we've seen so far have that capacity and that door is currently very firmly shut.

The two demons we've seen so far are fanatical imperialists who deliberately chose to stay behind when their army retreated so they could continue to fight a war that their own country decided to pull out of, and who call their king a coward for not just continuing to throw troops into the meat grinder.

It seems extremely unlikely that every demon is like that, or even a majority of them.

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010

USNews: Biden approves $735M weapons sale to Israel


College Slice

Lemon-Lime posted:

The two demons we've seen so far are fanatical imperialists who deliberately chose to stay behind when their army retreated so they could continue to fight a war that their own country decided to pull out of, and who call their king a coward for not just continuing to throw troops into the meat grinder.

It seems extremely unlikely that every demon is like that, or even a majority of them.

I did say, "from the ones we've seen so far", we haven't seen their King or what their actual decision making was, but the Demon God from S1 is not a good sign.

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
This space intentionally left blank.


Turin Turambar posted:

What, not comments about the freaking nendoroid appearing in the show ? Pretty funny.

The backstory of 7BD is was nice to see. Well, not 'nice', you understand me.

My loving sides were turning into mush looking at that thing. Best thing is there are multiple nendos, one with the normal eyes, another with swirly eyes. And for longer shots, the Shang puppet was holding a smaller, less detailed puppet.

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010

USNews: Biden approves $735M weapons sale to Israel


College Slice

Also its hands move and gesticulate.

Cao Ni Ma
May 25, 2010


Its pretty funny that they could get the arms and hands on the nendroid to move in the same way they do.

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
This space intentionally left blank.


The Nendie Lin puppet is probably the same size and has the same rigging as Regular Lin and Regular Shang puppets, it just has the proportions of a Nendie.

It's all camera tricks. One of their favorite types of shots is feet walking over ground, they literally film puppet shoes with nothing else attached pretending to walk over terrain. That kind of thing makes me appreciate it more.

Phobophilia fucked around with this message at 23:39 on May 2, 2021

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010

USNews: Biden approves $735M weapons sale to Israel


College Slice

Phobophilia posted:

The Nendie Lin puppet is probably the same size and has the same rigging as Regular Lin and Regular Shang puppets, it just has the proportions of a Nendie.

It's all camera tricks. One of their favorite types of shoes is feel walking over ground, they literally film puppet shoes with nothing else attached pretending to walk over terrain. That kind of thing makes me appreciate it more.

The production of this show is really amazing.

Potsticker
Jan 13, 2006




Raenir Salazar posted:

The production of this show is really amazing.

Even when I'm not enjoying the plot, the puppet work keeps me watching.

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010

USNews: Biden approves $735M weapons sale to Israel


College Slice

Potsticker posted:

Even when I'm not enjoying the plot, the puppet work keeps me watching.

I like the plot too even if it mostly washes over me, there's something I like about how deliberate things feel, a lot of very specific talking and discussion that strikes me as realistic between people acting fairly human despite being quite powerful; almost like a D&D adventure party.

Potsticker
Jan 13, 2006




Raenir Salazar posted:

I like the plot too even if it mostly washes over me, there's something I like about how deliberate things feel, a lot of very specific talking and discussion that strikes me as realistic between people acting fairly human despite being quite powerful; almost like a D&D adventure party.

I feel like in general season 1 was really strong and I didn't care too much for season 2. This season I didn't really like the like-- first two episodes, but since then things have been generally more entertaining. Again, just considering the story. Puppetwork has been generally great the whole way through.

Elephant Ambush
Nov 13, 2012

...We shoulde spenden more time together. What sayest thou?




Nap Ghost

Exposition episode but that's fine because there was still a lot of fighting.

The Nendoroid cracked me up. That was really funny.

I like how they set up next episode to explain what happened to the blue bard lady since Shou left Sei Yu.

I'm really digging Kei Gai and her older sister. I really liked the 7BD back story.

I was 100% certain that Rou Fu Yo was going to end up drinking more than half the spirit medicine because they mentioned 4 times that he should only drink half of it and I'm a little disappointed that it didn't happen.

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
This space intentionally left blank.


Lmao they were misdirecting us with such a flashy Chekov's gun that we ended up losing sight of the actual drama in Shang's backstory with the bard lady.

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Nick Buntline
Dec 20, 2007
Doesn't know the impossible.



Question since it's been a bit since I saw the first film: is 7BD's backstory implying she's the reason Screaming Phoenix Killer was orphaned? The shots/story of that first massacre seemed similar to what I remember, but I can't recall exactly what they said about his family so I'm not sure if I'm drawing a connection that isn't there.

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