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Weird to think that Torbin threatened someone, got his head nearly caved in by a wookie and then decided to not speak for 15 years. He hosed it pretty badly but Sol has way more to be ashamed of tbh
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Jul 10, 2024 16:28
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Marsupial Ape posted:edit: did anybody notice the weird march Sol was doing as he and Torbin strode into the courtyard after breaking in? Weird character choice Yes! What the gently caress was up with that. It looked like an amateur actor trying to walk to his mark after being yelled at a dozen times for screwing it up. Was expecting to see a big chunk of rock or something there, lol.
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Jul 10, 2024 16:32
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SimonChris posted:I'm also annoyed that they gave PhilosophyTube a pointless role as Witch #3, who occasionally says a line. Nobody responds to her in any way. It's like they edited her into the episode in post. That's kinda rude. Smaller roles are still important in most any narrative, and I'd say she puts in the strongest performance of all the side witches. Like, the others do a good job conveying strong concern, but she's convincingly distraught at the prospect of losing OSHA. Shoehead posted:Weird to think that Torbin threatened someone, got his head nearly caved in by a wookie and then decided to not speak for 15 years. He hosed it pretty badly but Sol has way more to be ashamed of tbh One thing that this episode makes clear is that it's the 16 years of lies that have really been messing with everyone. Kelnacca didn't really do very much bad at the time, but he also never came forward. Sol, however, loves the coverup because he thinks he can turn over a new leaf and make the best of his transparently bad actions.
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Jul 10, 2024 16:45
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Re: Walking Strangely - the actors had clearly been struggling with their overlong robes. When they're walking slowly on flat ground, the hem fouls the boots. It just speaks to the general ineptitude of this project as a whole.
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Jul 10, 2024 16:55
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Indara didn’t seem too terribly broken up about it (she was against the plan from the beginning and in the present was just having a drink in a cafe when Mae found her) Also bring Jecki back to life somehow, she was the only good character besides maybe Darth Manny Larryb fucked around with this message at 17:00 on Jul 10, 2024 |
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Jul 10, 2024 16:55
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The Jedi on this show are indeed morons, but i’ll give Sol a bit of a break on the following:quote:*turns into a frightening dark side smoke monster out of nowhere* 
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Jul 10, 2024 16:58
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Sacrifice every remaining living character to bring Jecki back and make her the main character. Killing her off looks even worse now because every remaining character sucks and you don't want to root for any of them.
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Jul 10, 2024 16:58
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I kinda knew Sol wasn’t going to come out of this clean but drat I totally misread the last scene of the previous episode. I thought he was going to tell Mae she was wrong about her memories but he killed her mom and caused everything! drat it I didn’t want Sol to turn out to be a cliche bad cop  I’m sure there’s some force trivia on this but why didn’t he just force lift the girls instead of all that scaffolding?
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Jul 10, 2024 16:58
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I am at least curious to see what Mae’s first reaction to all this is going to be when we return to the present
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Jul 10, 2024 17:01
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Maybe turning into a scary smoke monster is a sign of respect in their culture. Nice going Sol!!!
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Jul 10, 2024 17:02
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The main problem I had with the ep was how quickly Sol deteriorated. It felt like there was this near-instant jump from "Little girls, out here? How odd" to "If anyone keeps me from taking this girl under my wing I'll loving kill them! Do you know how LUCRATIVE Lone Wolf & Cub poo poo is these days?!"
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Jul 10, 2024 17:03
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I honestly believe that the curse of being Force Sensitive is that you whenever you enter a crisis situation you become an idiot that can only take unilateral, psycho-dramatic actions. Everyday of your life is a trolley problem.
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Jul 10, 2024 17:06
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I totally called they would do some namby pamby hack writer thing where they make the Jedi “wrong” but also make sure nothing was supposedly anyones fault and no one is morally culpable. “Oh no I killed the smoke demon that was disintegrating a child” followed by the entire coven oh so conveniently falling over dead simultaneously from their own power. Just a complete lack of courage from the writers to actually make a statement or make one side objectively correct.
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Jul 10, 2024 17:14
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She only turned into a smoke monster because Sol and the Zabrak lady were about to lay into eachother. And it's her home, she'll turn into a fuckin' smoke monster if she wants to.
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Jul 10, 2024 17:18
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This show teased all these incredible characters with compelling and beautiful stories and all it wants to do is piss on them! Remember this dude being plastered all over the promotional images for the show??? He's been in the background of what like two or three shots?? Has he even said a line?
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Jul 10, 2024 17:22
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All that witch stuff did seem a little dark sidey
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Jul 10, 2024 17:22
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Lobok posted:The main problem I had with the ep was how quickly Sol deteriorated. There's a weird tendency to immediately assume 'things that happen' are errors because they're unexpected and/or go against commonsense. Like, a few pages back, someone ITT was saying that it's unclear is the smoke magic is real or just an illusion, as if that's an error. Like, the show failed to explain it. Now, hear me out, but what if the point of the magic is the very inability to distinguish reality from illusion? If literally everyone present is merely mind-tricked into believing the leader is invisible, whats the functional difference? It only matters if you're playing a videogame and there's a gameplay mechanic where smoke attack is categorized under illusions and can be countered with infrared scanners or something. You can look at Sol's behaviour & conclude that the entire episode is an error. Instead, however, I recommend reading this as characterization. Sol is a hosed up dude, beyond what we expected - not a generic good guy who made a regrettable mistake, but a borderline Space Travis Bickle. That's interesting! What kind of person does this?
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Jul 10, 2024 17:25
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zoux posted:All that witch stuff did seem a little dark sidey These Jedi would not survive Midsommar.
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Jul 10, 2024 17:27
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Edit: Nevermind
Larryb fucked around with this message at 19:25 on Jul 10, 2024 |
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Jul 10, 2024 17:27
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Once this is season is over I fully intend to rewatch the whole thing. But I am really interested to see how my opinion evolves on this episode. First impression, I did like that we got the story from ep3 from the Jedi POV. The more I think on it, I keep waffling between "it should have been condensed" to "no that runtime for what we got was justified." I really don't know how to feel about it, but either way, I felt underwhelmed and didn't really want a second entire episode told in flashback. Putting aside what I'd have wanted, A loving POSSESSED ANGRY WOOKIE JEDI! gently caress yeah! As stupid as 99% of the decisions were leading up to that fight, it was pretty bad rear end. Good choreography and I'd appreciate more Wookie Jedi poo poo. Back to those decisions though... everyone was just operating from a position of fear, paranoia and greed. I guess we don't know enough about Sol at this stage of his life, but his very sudden NEED for a padawan, specifically this one he found in the woods, was just... creeapy as gently caress. No other way to put it. I also don't know how he could be around Torbin's bitch-baby rear end and actually want a padawan. But I guess his bigger need is for some sort of grand purpose, which he can't seem to find and keeps failing. Which Star Wars being Star Wars, he'll never find if he's always seeking it. Although I guess it is interesting how generally spoiled and petulant we see everyone in this particular story. I'm also guessing they are all some D-list tier of Jedi to be sent off on such a lame mission. Indarra was the only one with a level head, and tried repeatedly to guide things away from this ultimately fruitless shitshow we ended up with at the end. Her demeanor in the series opener makes a little more sense. She tried to prevent it all, but the two boneheads on her team and a weak minded Wookie bungled the whole thing. I was also really confused at the fate of the witches. Did Indarra accidentally kill them clearing Kelnacca's mind? Or was this some "I'm tired, bye" Yoda moment from spending too much energy that killed them? Or did they just pass out from exertion and end up dying in the fire? Either way, seemed a little contrived. Ultimately, the whole thing was sort of everyone's fault. They all hosed up in different ways, and that's... actually kind of realistic when you consider how stupidity like that ensues in real life. Overall! I liked more about it than I disliked, but I don't believe there is any chance in hell they wrap this overall arc in the next episode. So I hope it gets renewed for at least one more season. My single biggest complaint was the girls standing on either end of the broken bridge just yelling for one another and not moving. WTF? Kids that age can be idiots (I have one, I know), but they could have made that somewhat less contrived. Just thought that was executed poorly. The only other semi-gripe I have is that I can't help but feel one full flashback episode would have been plenty. For a franchise that *never* had a flashback sequence until TLJ, I wish that had stayed as an unwritten rule because this franchise seems to do much better when it's all left to the imagination. So my bigger preference would have been no flashbacks whatsoever, just exposition.
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Jul 10, 2024 17:29
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The characterization is basic but we conclude that Sol is seriously chapped by the council not granting him a Padawan and its driven him a bit mad. Hes a got a brain disorder from it and it caused him to genocide a force cult basically.
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Jul 10, 2024 17:29
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galagazombie posted:Just a complete lack of courage from the writers to actually make a statement or make one side objectively correct. They are very clearly making a statement and a large part of it is that no one is objectively correct.
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Jul 10, 2024 17:29
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Larryb posted:Wait, that thing is a real design? It looks like someone painted tinfoil and glued some googly eyes on it Dude, that's Glup Shitto
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Jul 10, 2024 17:31
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It's funny that people find Aniseya threatening because she... turns into smoke and also turns her daughter into smoke? Why would anyone think she's harming Mae when the same thing is happening to the both of them? Or mind controls people? I'm pretty sure that's the first use of the Force by a Jedi ever shown on a screen back in the original Star Wars. Also, I found it funny that this is the second time Sol has been shown on screen to bumble his way into someone else's home, start waving around a lightsaber and causing a panic, and then he's "forced" to kill. Kind of a pattern that he apparently never outgrows!
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Jul 10, 2024 17:32
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zoux posted:Dude, that's Glup Shitto Ah, wasn’t familiar with that particular meme (and honestly I wouldn’t put it past this franchise to make a goofy looking alien like that) As for the witches, I assumed Indara clearing Kelnacca’s mind broke their hold and ended up killing them all as a result Larryb fucked around with this message at 17:36 on Jul 10, 2024 |
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Jul 10, 2024 17:34
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Lobok posted:The main problem I had with the ep was how quickly Sol deteriorated. It felt like there was this near-instant jump from Yeah Sol kept giving me "crazy guy breaking into Comet Ping Pong Pizza demanding to see the basement freezer" vibes. The only time the Jedi gain any shred of credibility is when finding out Mae/Osha could have been genetically engineered, Force made babies whatever and wanting to investigate further. But that's only after Sol breaks in, does an unwarranted search, convinces the rest to also do bad cop poo poo, the Coven then for whatever reason possess someone, Indara wanting to just chill with other women, but Sol being an insistent male dickhead on really really really really wanting a student to teach especially one that could be uber special as a "Vergence" Jiro fucked around with this message at 17:42 on Jul 10, 2024 |
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Jul 10, 2024 17:38
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:That's kinda rude. Smaller roles are still important in most any narrative, and I'd say she puts in the strongest performance of all the side witches. Like, the others do a good job conveying strong concern, but she's convincingly distraught at the prospect of losing OSHA. Still a bit surprised that a show explicitly drawing upon Rashomon is still getting so much stick here ITT (not from SMG). Repeating the same story from multiple points of view is the thing itself, of course that’s what we’re getting. And every single PoV story is influenced by the teller: of course everything is pretty much Sol’s fault in his version, he’s a seething cauldron of emotion, he can’t do anything right, it’s all his fault, and the poisonous lie that turned his future to poo poo was ultimately down either to his own cowardice or his ongoing attempt to protect Osha, which of course was what made things go wrong in the first place. I think Sol sees the cover-up as part of the problem but he’s benefited so much from it. On some level it feels like forcing Mae to hear this confession is the “I’m guilty over cheating on my partner so I confess to make her forgive me no matter how much it hurts her because I still care more about my own feelings” thing in a different context. On some level, he both wants to die and wants redemption and Mae’s looking like his best bet for both now, though he may plan to use her to find Osha. This also obviously isn’t the “accurate” version of events. The story for this season has what it needs. I expect Darth Manny was on-site to save Mae and likely caused all those explosions (“rock caught fire” is really how that read to anybody?) and he was there because of the vergance. If she’s dead, I doubt we get Rashomom’s version of events, but maybe somebody survived: impossible to tell if the practitioners passed out (to later die in the fire) or got killed in some sort of Jedi Mind Battle. And I think the last few episodes prove Sol did love the cover-up until now. Osha was “safe” and not a Jedi; she was threatened by being accused of Jedi murder and had to be cleared, and Mae being alive meant Sol could no longer preserve the lie FOR OSHA. We don’t know what the Wookie was “offered” in his mind; maybe the cult members somehow survived in some form in his head and that explains him isolating himself, or maybe he was studying another vergance and that spiral pattern is associated with them. Which again leaves Indara. Killed because she saved a bystander, maybe not at fault here? Except this is from Sol’s PoV. She and Sol argue about how to teach, which she “wins” by saying he has no Padawan yet. But her Padawan is clearly the weak link, and sixteen years later Sol is teaching at the Academy and Indara is duty Jedi on a nowhere planet with no Padawan. Indara pushes the lie. Indara is running the mission and is even a bit pushy toward Sol but then just lets him do what he wants the more he goes off the rails? Indara is in the ship and not the fortress, but what is she doing? Circling the fortress repeatedly? Landing, climbing up, and immediately saving the Wookie/maybe calmly killing the coven (or leaving them to die)? IIRC, she says before suggesting the lie to Sol that the Council has recalled them, and Sol complains she won’t make a move without Council approval. So surely she already updated the Council: with her lie? There’s bits and pieces to her story that seem questionable. Why did the Council ever allow Sol to take Osha as his Padawan if they got a report even vaguely close to the truth? Why is the vergence important enough to send a Jedi Master, a Padawan and two other Jedi to investigate? They sent one Jedi and Padawan to investigate Indara’s murder! I expect if there’s more seasons they’ll focus more on these unanswered questions. I doubt they matter much to Osha/Mae.
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Jul 10, 2024 17:39
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One thing that gets me is "I'm afraid these kids aren't safe!" MF have you ever seen jedi training? Hey kid put this blindfold on and this orb will shoot lasers at you while you swing around this amputator. Hey, you're 7 years old, go into this perilous frozen cave and find a khyber crystal! Better make it back before nightfall or enjoy being entombed in ice for a fortnight I guess!
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Jul 10, 2024 17:43
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https://www.starwars.com/series/the-acolyte/season-1-episode-7-choice-episode-guide quote:Mae misremembers the wording of Mother Aniseya's description of Ascension to make it sound much more ominous to Jedi ears. quote:After testing the twins, the discovery that they’re not sisters in the usual sense — but the same person on a biological level, a consciousness shared in two separate corporeal beings, — sends Torbin racing back to the fortress for further proof. Meanwhile, the coven is wrestling with Osha’s desire to leave them, and the implications on their own future.
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Jul 10, 2024 17:44
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:There's a weird tendency to immediately assume 'things that happen' are errors because they're unexpected and/or go against commonsense. Not an error per se but your question is exactly what I mean. I don't really have a basis for deciphering his behaviour. Is he desperately in need of a Padawan? Did I miss something earlier about that? Does he have some hang-ups about women, like he's put down or challenged by at least three powerful women and Osha is a chance for him to flip the script?
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Jul 10, 2024 17:44
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Doronin posted:The only other semi-gripe I have is that I can't help but feel one full flashback episode would have been plenty. For a franchise that *never* had a flashback sequence until TLJ, I wish that had stayed as an unwritten rule because this franchise seems to do much better when it's all left to the imagination. So my bigger preference would have been no flashbacks whatsoever, just exposition. Flashbacks are fine if that's what the story demands. They're in Rogue One, and Andor, and the first three Episodes of Manderlorian that are still the pinnacle of that series. So cool beans. But, strictly speaking, the two episodes here aren't flashbacks in the traditional sense, where we cut from somebody reminiscing to the thing that they're reminiscing about. It's just achronological storytelling, like with the Lucas films, where the episodes are deliberately presented 'out of order' to mess with the audience. Bar Ran Dun posted:They are very clearly making a statement and a large part of it is that no one is objectively correct. But that's false because these Jedi are very clearly doing wrong, just by their own rules, before you even factor in the galaxy-scale genocide that pushed the witches to this planet in the first place. koolkal posted:Or mind controls people? I'm pretty sure that's the first use of the Force by a Jedi ever shown on a screen back in the original Star Wars. The technique that the witches use is arguably better than a mind-trick because, instead of forcing the person to do what you want, it's seducing them into giving in to their desires. Note that the first thing she does is remind Toobin of his family. Lobok posted:Not an error per se but your question is exactly what I mean. I don't really have a basis for deciphering his behaviour. Is he desperately in need of a Padawan? Did I miss something earlier about that? Does he have some hang-ups about women, like he's put down or challenged by at least three powerful women and Osha is a chance for him to flip the script? Those are all reasonable conclusions, to draw from what's shown, yeah. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 17:51 on Jul 10, 2024 |
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Jul 10, 2024 17:46
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Vinylshadow posted:Ahh, it was protective spooky black magic smoke The Night Sisters manipulate a green smoke called ichor. Maybe this coven manipulates a black 'ichor'. Though, it should be called aether or ether, because ichor is divine blood, but I digress. Anyway, maybe they're going for a color coded smoke thing. Each new type we meet has a different color smoke. Marsupial Ape fucked around with this message at 18:00 on Jul 10, 2024 |
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Jul 10, 2024 17:52
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That DICK! posted:This show teased all these incredible characters with compelling and beautiful stories and all it wants to do is piss on them! Remember this dude being plastered all over the promotional images for the show??? He's been in the background of what like two or three shots?? Has he even said a line? lmfao
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Jul 10, 2024 17:58
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someone earlier was like "good to see its not the jedis fault this happened and just because of a couple idiots and an insane guy" and buddy if you dont think the jedi as an institution emboldened these dipshits into warrantless entry, search and seizure, and escalation of force of these visible ethnic and cultural minorities then i just dont know what to tell you. indara spent the entire mission telling them all to listen to her, to stop being dipshits, to do the "right" thing by protocol and not go in half cocked and fully loaded, and at every turn she was ignored. and yet at the end of it all, shes the one cooking up the obfuscated truth and getting everyone to match their stories up for when they have to report back to the coven has done literally nothing wrong, acting like "oh the show is being grey about whos fault it is" is mindboggling. go watch some bodycam footage
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Jul 10, 2024 18:10
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Just to go into more detail on this: Sol is very clearly prejudiced against the witches. Although official Jedi policy is that they're all tolerant and multicultural, everyone is like "yeah these women are probably child-murdering satanists". In his mind, he sees himself as heroically stepping in and saving this lil girl from the cabal, like that pizzagate dude attacking the restaurant. Sexism is obviously a factor there. Where the Jedi are "gender neutral", this is very much a group of women doing spooky female stuff. He does not like that. In terms of the psychology, Sol's extremely invested in the notion of OSHA's innocence. Note his emphasis on how 'the kids aren't being treated as kids!' That's not usually something worth sparking an international incident over, but Sol is going all out trying to defend this notion of childhood. Obviously, this is related to his own upbringing in the Order. And, in choosing to let Mae die, he clearly sees her as already too far gone (because of the tattoo, because she was rude to a butterfly earlier, whatever). Everything is so bad, so dark in his mind, that rescuing this one girl would be a miracle. This could be the child he's been waiting for, his destiny. So this little girl becomes a symbol of the only pure thing in the universe, who must be defended at all cost. And Sol does defend her - in a way that's possessive, subtly controlling, paternal in a bad way. No wonder he drifted away from OSHA at around the time she became an adult, becoming less a symbol and more a person in her own right.
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Jul 10, 2024 18:19
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:But that's false because these Jedi are very clearly doing wrong, just by their own rules, before you even factor in the galaxy-scale genocide that pushed the witches to this planet in the first place. As a group, as individuals they’re each portrayed with complications. Tobin has his brain hosed with. Sol sees things that are working out of context. Indara is trying to descalate but actually does the majority of the killing. The birth mom works Mae up into anger to protect her children and the coven which causes Mae to start the fire. The Coven leader messes with Tobin and then turns to smoke aggressively even as she was going to let Osha go. Each character is portrayed as ambiguous, nobody is trying to be evil. But the groups cause the events. You are correct about the Jedi overall as a group. But groups are always less moral than individuals. They’re showing how ambiguous individuals trying to each do what they think is right and, can be immoral collectively as a group. Bar Ran Dun fucked around with this message at 19:09 on Jul 10, 2024 |
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Jul 10, 2024 19:06
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I've liked the show overall, but this episode annoyed me. Mostly because we're going to sit through another flashback at some point to answer questions like - What happened to Horn Mom? - What were the witches singing to in that hole? - What caused the actual fire that burned the fort down, because that oil lamp was not it? - What happened to Mae when she fell down the hole? - Possibly what the hell got in Sol's head and made him act so stupid, he has seemed smarter than that until recently? I did like how testing the kids was a throw away line to buy some time for the council to get back to them, but sent the coven into high alert. I kinda feel like this show is going to end with Yoda and Ki Adi Mundi re-enacting the end of Burn after Reading - "Learned here, what have we?"
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Jul 10, 2024 19:18
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Larryb posted:Wait, that thing is a real design? It looks like someone painted tinfoil and glued some googly eyes on it lol. Even if you'd never seen the meme before, which I hadn't either, that's a piece of poo poo with googly eyes, and a bullshit Star Wars font. C'mon now.
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Jul 10, 2024 19:23
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thrawn527 posted:that's a piece of poo poo with googly eyes I'm down for a new thread title.
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Jul 10, 2024 19:31
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thrawn527 posted:that's a piece of poo poo with googly eyes when you are in a Star War and are speciesist against Grans
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