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it's well established that all the events of the movies are the result of the exogolian conspiracy, in which an infinite number of infinitely evil exogolians from exogol make all the bad things in the universe happen.HootTheOwl posted:Luke is a Jedi like his father before him his father is before him, and he's Darth Vader.
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Jul 19, 2024 22:51
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LinkesAuge posted:That's also why the whole discussion around the Jedi being bad because they led Anakin on that path is paradoxical. If a single fuckup by an institution can lead to the rise of Space Hitler then you are also saying that every potential force user is such a disaster waiting to happen and if that's the case how could you treat force children just like "normal" children? What is the "appropriate" treatment/environment for a kid that could potentially just force choke its parents on a whim? Just to take a slice here because it's kind of a crucial point - Sheev is already supreme chancellor by the time he meets Anakin. Space Hitler is doing just fine well before he meets the high school Judo champ and decides that this kid could be real useful if he ever needs someone thrown out of a window. Believing that evil comes in the form of a mean-looking man with a scary face is exactly what the Jedi do wrong - they're fighting a Phantom Menace.
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Jul 19, 2024 23:08
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ungulateman posted:it's well established that all the events of the movies are the result of the exogolian conspiracy, in which an infinite number of infinitely evil exogolians from exogol make all the bad things in the universe happen. No you see Darth Vader killed Anakin. From a certain point of view.
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Jul 19, 2024 23:16
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josh04 posted:Just to take a slice here because it's kind of a crucial point - Sheev is already supreme chancellor by the time he meets Anakin. Space Hitler is doing just fine well before he meets the high school Judo champ and decides that this kid could be real useful if he ever needs someone thrown out of a window. Believing that evil comes in the form of a mean-looking man with a scary face is exactly what the Jedi do wrong - they're fighting a Phantom Menace. Anakin told Sheev that he thought spinning was a good trick and instantly Sheev knew he had met his soulmate
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Jul 19, 2024 23:18
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Alchenar posted:Anakin told Sheev that he thought spinning was a good trick and instantly Sheev knew he had met his soulmate "The dark side is a path to abilities some consider... unnatural" The path in question: 
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Jul 19, 2024 23:23
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GigaPeon posted:No you see Darth Vader killed Anakin. From a certain point of view. yes, and now darth vader is luke's father
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Jul 19, 2024 23:40
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ungulateman posted:yes, and now darth vader is luke's father Maybe in the Bible or Game of Thrones but I don’t think in Star Wars. Edit: that might happen in Elden Ring, too. Edit2: oh I think I get what you’re saying. Vader killed Palpatine so he became Rey’s Grandpa and that why she’s a Skywalker. Makes sense now. GigaPeon fucked around with this message at 23:49 on Jul 19, 2024 |
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Jul 19, 2024 23:46
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Paper Lion posted:again, hes saying that to troll the emperor and to try to stir up the memories buried deep in vader of his humanity. characters can say things they dont mean, or be duplicitous, or perform subterfuge. you know this is how he intends it because in the line he calls the emperor "your highness", again to mock him and his idea of the station of fascist emperor. jesus christ is this where were at with media analysis now The name of the movie is the return of the Jedi
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Jul 20, 2024 00:59
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Yoda tells him he needs no more training what are we doing here
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Jul 20, 2024 01:01
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the jedi returning is anakin. thats why you see his force ghost at the end of the movie. what are we doing here indeed
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Jul 20, 2024 01:02
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HootTheOwl posted:The name of the movie is the return of the Jedi I was gonna say, Luke being a Jedi (and referring to himself as such) in the film ‘Return of the Jedi’ doesn’t sound like a particularly spicy take. In fact, I suspect it’s the one the filmmakers intended you to arrive at.
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Jul 20, 2024 01:03
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I'm sitting in a park this afternoon with some friends, enjoying a slight reprieve from the heat. A house across the street always plays music out of their windows in the afternoon, and today it's a jazzy kind of thing. A new song starts and one person straightens up. "This one sounds like the star wars cantina music," she says. "Jizz. You're talking about jizz," I want to tell her. "Jizz music, performed by max rebo and the jizz-wailers. It's called jizz." I don't, though. Sometimes discretion is the better part of valor. Sometimes you have to let sleeping jizz lie. "Yeah, sure does," I said.
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Jul 20, 2024 01:11
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Maybe the Force just needs a Skywalker to die every so often to "bring balance to the force" and that's why the sequels turned Skywalker into a title rather than a blood lineage. Skywalker is a priesthood, now.
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Jul 20, 2024 01:12
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Electro-Boogie Jack posted:I'm sitting in a park this afternoon with some friends, enjoying a slight reprieve from the heat.  Um excuse me that’s Figrin D’an and the Modal Nodes, you philistine
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Jul 20, 2024 01:13
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Xenomrph posted:
oh poo poo
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Jul 20, 2024 01:19
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LinkesAuge posted:This isn't explored and that is a weakness of the show because that means it treats "force powers" just as if it's like some generic trait and we should see it like "we are all the same, no matter the color of our skin" but that is literally not true in the Star Wars universe. Not only are there aliens, there is a universal force that (randomly) only gives a few selected extreme power. "Übermenschen" are real in the Star Wars universe and that brings a lot of problems with it if you want to strictly apply our current RL worlds/politics/morality to the setting and that includes how you would treat such children. In Obi-Wan you instantly started seeing this equation of Force Users with mutants from the MCU, along with the idea that they can be seen as analogues for a persecuted ethnic group or other minorities. And in the ST you have Rey being this dangerous living weapon and accidentally not-killing Chewie because she hasn't learned the truth about herself and self-actualized or whatever. Standard YA stuff, I guess.
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Jul 20, 2024 01:28
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Even with trained force users there's been power creeping. Force lightning went from something used to torture someone who already surrendered to Palpatine's Gauss cannon in Episode 9
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Jul 20, 2024 01:39
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bij posted:Looking at the galaxy 200 years afterwards, the answer is either "they don't" or "not much" while the non-ethical force users mass murder, commit a laser sword school shooting, and cosplay as the a corporate version of the mass murderers. That’s an… odd interpretation. Again, the story of The Acoolyte (in the context of the Lucas films) is that OSHA, Manny, and Plagueis are betrayed and killed by Palpatine some time before the events of Phantom Menace. Palpatine is then eventually killed by Darth Vader, the spiritual successor to those Acoolyte guys. Vader succumbs to his injuries shortly afterwards, and it’s unclear what the fate of the galaxy will be. It all rests on Luke Skywalker not loving things up. When we factor in the very bad Disney sequel films, Luke Skywalker fucks everything up. The New Republic and New Jedi Order are dogshit, and the whole thing is about to collapse into a New Empire under the leadership of the despotic antichrist figure Rey Skywalker. Vaderist hero Ben Solo, however, eventually gives his life for Rey and potentially redeems her in the process. Again, it rests on a Skywalker to decide the fate of the galaxy and hopefully not gently caress it all up…. In both cases - the Lucas version and the redundant Disney version - the Vaderist and proto-Vaderist revolutionary characters give their lives to open up a space of freedom where the galaxy can choose its own fate. And, of course, this is also the story of Andor / Rogue One - a sister-narrative to The Acoolyte that dares to state that, even though they aren’t Nazis, the overall ideology of the Rebel Alliance might be kinda bad. So, if there is ‘a’ Star Wars narrative, it’s the perpetual struggle of these various “rogue ones” against the inertia of history as the Republic and its Jedi struggle futilely to repress their darkness. They’re the authentic light of the setting. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 02:21 on Jul 20, 2024 |
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Jul 20, 2024 02:18
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Paper Lion posted:the jedi returning is anakin. thats why you see his force ghost at the end of the movie. what are we doing here indeed Who is the last Jedi in The Last Jedi?
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Jul 20, 2024 02:19
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HootTheOwl posted:Who is the last Jedi in The Last Jedi? The asscrack bandit whom viciously attacked bb-8 in the casino
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Jul 20, 2024 02:22
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HootTheOwl posted:Who is the last Jedi in The Last Jedi? According to Ashoka Show, it’s like five different people.
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Jul 20, 2024 02:23
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smg hit you with the joke answer that is also kind of the real answer: its a trick question, there is no last jedi in the context of the movie because its major thesis is that the force belongs to all of us, that the jedi dont exist and never should. rey is the last jedi as much as that child at the end as much as anybody else.
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Jul 20, 2024 02:40
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I thought Luke was the Jedi who Returned so wouldn’t that make him the Last Jedi?
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Jul 20, 2024 02:45
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The audience is the Last Jedi.
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Jul 20, 2024 02:49
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the last jedi is the porgs we met along the way
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Jul 20, 2024 02:49
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It may be noted that in languages with less grammatical ambiguity than English (German or French, say), the film's title was translated as referring to multiple Last Jedi, not one. As was Return of the Jedi for that matter, at least in German.
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Jul 20, 2024 02:50
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Jerkface posted:the last jedi is the porgs we ate along the way
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Jul 20, 2024 02:55
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Paper Lion posted:smg hit you with the joke answer that is also kind of the real answer: its a trick question, there is no last jedi in the context of the movie because its major thesis is that the force belongs to all of us, that the jedi dont exist and never should. rey is the last jedi as much as that child at the end as much as anybody else. Charitable as that interpretation is, it's actually just quoting Yoda's dying words in Episode 6: "Luke... when gone am I, the last of the Jedi you will be. Luke, the force runs strong in your family. Pass on what you have learned! There is another Skywalker..." Obiwan: The other he spoke of is your twin sister. ... Luke: Leia! Leia is my sister. The last jedi was actually just Leia the whole time. *sad trombone* Sorry, folks.
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Jul 20, 2024 03:05
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luke does say to the camera 'and i will not be the last jedi', in the film
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Jul 20, 2024 04:39
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ungulateman posted:luke does say to the camera 'and i will not be the last jedi', in the film Well, yeah, it's not a riddle. Luke appeared to be the last Jedi in Episode 6 (to Yoda's knowledge), then there were some more Jedi, then he appeared to be the last Jedi again before dying and leaving Leia to train Rey. The intended message is that there is no 'last Jedi' because this poo poo's going to go on forever. The actual riddle is the prophecy of the Skywalker. According to Episode 7+9's production designer Rick Carter, "The Episode 1 prophecy was that a Skywalker was somehow going to help balance the Force." That seems like an odd misquote, but what he means is that the writers combined the prophecy from Episode 1 with Ben and Yoda's dialogue in Episode 6 to create a new, expanded prophecy. Yoda's dying words were interpreted as a prophetic vision about the Chosen One. So, in the intended the logic of the ST, the Chosen One is definitionally a Jedi named Skywalker who is part of Luke's family and therefore strong in the Force. The Skywalker is also the Last Hope, the person who specifically 'balances the Force' by killing Palpatine once and for all. If neither Luke nor Anakin Skywalker were the Chosen Jedi Named Skywalker... that means Palpatine's alive! The dead speak! So, the mystery of The Other Skywalker's identity becomes of vital importance. Luke: I can't kill my own father. Obiwan: Then the Emperor has already won. You were our only hope. Luke: Yoda spoke of another. Luke and Obiwan interpreted The Other Skywalker as being Leia, of course - and Lucas' intent for his sequel trilogy was to reveal Leia as the real Chosen One. But Yoda's phrasing is extremely ambiguous and can be interpreted in any number of ways. The Other Skywalker in question could be Anakin Skywalker, Ben Solo, Leia Organa, or some other bullshit. So, the big twist they finally went with: it's some other bullshit. Rey just changes her name. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 05:40 on Jul 20, 2024 |
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Jul 20, 2024 05:29
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josh04 posted:Just to take a slice here because it's kind of a crucial point - Sheev is already supreme chancellor by the time he meets Anakin. Space Hitler is doing just fine well before he meets the high school Judo champ and decides that this kid could be real useful if he ever needs someone thrown out of a window. Believing that evil comes in the form of a mean-looking man with a scary face is exactly what the Jedi do wrong - they're fighting a Phantom Menace. His existence and that he has to and CAN hide is the best argument FOR the Jedi or would anyone argue that it would be better if people like him could just be out in the open? I mean even if we ponder a SW universe without the Jedi, what would that change? It's easy to claim the Jedi were blind to Sheev's deception but that always ignores the fact EVERYONE ELSE was also blind to him and not only that, the Jedi at least got it right eventually while the "rest" of the galaxy made him their ruler and for some reason just kept going along with it. So in a universe that spawns super powered evil beings like Sheev how do you deal with that as "normal" people? What is the answer to prevent something like Sheev? That's what I mean by saying that the flaws of the Jedi are by now overplayed and yet so many discussions constantly revolve around just them. If we judge institutions by how they are portrayed in the movies/shows we also have the problem by now that you could easily come to the conclusion that democracy in the SW universe doesn't really seem to work. You'd think a show called Acolyte could have focused on why the Jedi are needed, what they do right because showing that is at this point more challenging and more interesting than yet another version of "former student is pissed because of his past and turns to the dark side due to Jedi ignorance/incompetence".
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Jul 20, 2024 08:59
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LinkesAuge posted:His existence and that he has to and CAN hide is the best argument FOR the Jedi or would anyone argue that it would be better if people like him could just be out in the open? I don't think you can say at all that the Jedi 'eventually got it right': they supported Sheev into power, acted as his generals in a huge war, and only flipped on him when he was about to purge them - something he set up by taking a member of the council out to dinner and saying "oh I'm an evil space wizard". And yes, the Star Wars series is very cynical about democracy - "dies to rapturous applause" and all that. And again, the point of Sheev is that his super powers don't contribute to him becoming Space Hitler, that's his whole thing. They're just something he's having fun with in his spare time. If he weren't able to spin jump and shoot lightning from his fingers he'd still be able to dissolve the republic, end the Jedi and become Emperor. No amount of space wizard detection agents will stop him. LinkesAuge posted:You'd think a show called Acolyte could have focused on why the Jedi are needed, what they do right because showing that is at this point more challenging and more interesting than yet another version of "former student is pissed because of his past and turns to the dark side due to Jedi ignorance/incompetence". Given how many posters in this thread alone were struggling with the idea that Sol was a bad guy, I don't think this is empirically true. Halloween Jack posted:In Obi-Wan you instantly started seeing this equation of Force Users with mutants from the MCU, along with the idea that they can be seen as analogues for a persecuted ethnic group or other minorities. And in the ST you have Rey being this dangerous living weapon and accidentally not-killing Chewie because she hasn't learned the truth about herself and self-actualized or whatever. Standard YA stuff, I guess. Man I hate this stuff. It stinks!
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Jul 20, 2024 10:16
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LinkesAuge posted:His existence and that he has to and CAN hide is the best argument FOR the Jedi or would anyone argue that it would be better if people like him could just be out in the open? My favourite thing about Bortles' writing is how he's technically correct about most things, but also full of poo poo. It's a great way of showing the seductiveness of the Dark Side. "The Jedi will come after me, they refuse to let me exist" Yeah, that's fair, seems reasonable for you to defend yourself....hang on you sent an assassin after them! "she was a child!" "you brought her here" Yeah, that's fair, it's messed up of the Jedi to use child sold....hang on you loving attacked them! You're the one who murdered her!
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Jul 20, 2024 10:27
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:No it doesn’t. Mainline canon absolutely does treat the dark side as a corrupting set of powers. In the West End Games Star Wars Roleplayjng game force sensitive characters earned dark side points for using neutral force powers for evil things or certain skills, like force lightning, were dark side unique. Earning them causes a dice roll and losing it meant your character became an evil NPC and you could no longer use it. Any competent GM would have given which lady a dark side point for getting in Tommen’s head like that. And taking the smoke demon form from GOT is definitely dark side.
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Jul 20, 2024 11:16
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I would suggest that even a majority of nerds, when asked what the 'mainline canon' of Star Wars is, would not bring up unprompted the 1987 pen-and-paper roleplaying game.
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Jul 20, 2024 11:26
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josh04 posted:I would suggest that even a majority of nerds, when asked what the 'mainline canon' of Star Wars is, would not bring up unprompted the 1987 pen-and-paper roleplaying game. It and tie fighter are the only canon
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Jul 20, 2024 11:33
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HootTheOwl posted:It and tie fighter are the only canon Jedi Knight II 
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Jul 20, 2024 11:34
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josh04 posted:Jedi Knight II
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Jul 20, 2024 11:37
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josh04 posted:Jedi Knight II Did I loving stutter?
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Jul 20, 2024 12:10
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josh04 posted:I would suggest that even a majority of nerds, when asked what the 'mainline canon' of Star Wars is, would not bring up unprompted the 1987 pen-and-paper roleplaying game. Au contraire, mon ami. The further you go back in time, the more George Lucas was micromanaging canon. The West End stuff through the mid 90s was probably one of, if not the most, authoritative sources of Star Wars canon.
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Jul 20, 2024 12:13
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