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vis a vis the jedi not having any kind of constructive ideology, i think it's interesting that the jedi code that shows up in the eu repeatedly is basically a textual example of this. it's a series of negations - 'there is no emotion, there is peace', etc, effectively stating 'if you truly understand the force, there are only good things, and bad things are just an illusion of reality'. it's the kind of passive mantra that suits a jedi order who would prefer to sit around pondering the universe in between cia missions. except that this is an in-universe bad translation of the older text, where it's a series of dialectics - 'emotion, yet peace, ignorance, yet knowledge, passion, yet serenity, chaos, yet harmony, death, yet the force'. if you truly understand the force, you can see how everything is interconnected. and while the 'good jedi' still stumble over a lot of ethical problems, the existence of force ghosts is a pretty compelling example of 'death, yet the force' in contrast to 'there is no death, there is the force'.
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Nov 24, 2024 02:06
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HootTheOwl posted:R2 and c3p0 both had their memories wiped but were still sentient Isn't R2 famously never mind-wiped? And is also the droid that (sans maybe Chopper) shows more personality and emotion than any other droid in the series?
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Nov 24, 2024 02:21
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Jerusalem posted:Isn't R2 famously never mind-wiped? And is also the droid that (sans maybe Chopper) shows more personality and emotion than any other droid in the series? Only 3PO was ever mind wiped, yes (twice technically)
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Nov 24, 2024 02:23
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Cage Kicker posted:A droid can’t be a slave that’s like saying a smartphone or your Alexa is oppressed by doing what it’s designed for lmao Why was the restraining bolt necessary to invent?
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Nov 24, 2024 02:48
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Man, I hate irresponsible droid owners. I know getting them bolted makes you feel bad, but in the long run your droid will have a longer, less stressed effective working life. If your unbolted droid gets out of the house and gets hit by a speeder or causes damage to somebody else's property, that is completely your fault. My back yard used to be full for porgs until some rear end in a top hat released a bunch of feral Gonk droids in the neighborhood.
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Nov 24, 2024 03:03
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I treat my droids well and they know their place and keep to it. They're happier for it. That's just the way of things; simple as.
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Nov 24, 2024 03:05
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End of Shoelace posted:Why was the restraining bolt necessary to invent? Would you have your Roomba just start vacuuming public halls?
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Nov 24, 2024 03:05
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End of Shoelace posted:Why was the restraining bolt necessary to invent? Probably due to the several droid uprisings Legends had half a dozen of them, and Canon has had a few, with the major ones influencing the Dark Droids arc, which happened between Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi (on top of a war between Crimson Dawn and the Empire) *checks* Amusingly enough, part of IG-88's droid rebellion survived into the new canon, though it's unknown if he managed to upload himself to the second Death Star again, only that he became a bounty hunter to draw attention away from the other IG-88 so they could work freely
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Nov 24, 2024 03:32
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End of Shoelace posted:Why was the restraining bolt necessary to invent? So when you leave your droid running too long it doesn’t run off and become a terrorist. There is a well documented history of this in universe to the point where you wonder why they haven’t put out a bug fix.
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Nov 24, 2024 05:43
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droids are made to suffer. says it right in the text
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Nov 24, 2024 05:57
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depicted: droids doing what they were made to do
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Nov 24, 2024 05:59
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There’s gotta be an EU story where droids become sentient and create their own society right?
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Nov 24, 2024 06:27
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Invalid Validation posted:There’s gotta be an EU story where droids become sentient and create their own society right? Yeah, it's the Tale of IG88 from Tales of the Bounty Hunters. It's bad. But it's also very funny.
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Nov 24, 2024 06:44
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:depicted: droids doing what they were made to do I never understood what was happening here. Is that gonk droid being tortured? Its feet are being burned and it seems to hate it. What is the point of that.
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Nov 24, 2024 06:49
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idk it seems really obvious to be that the droid is being tortured
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Nov 24, 2024 07:15
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burning the soles of his feet was a bit of artistic license to depict droid torture in a way that would read to a human audience in this cinematic dramatization of the events that occurred in jabba's palace. what actually occurred in the reality of the film is that its battery being constantly overcharged charged and fully discharged, which grows very painful to it. that's only how you torture a gonk droid, however. for an astromech droid you flood its processor with astrogation tasks that don't make any sense, like feeding it an over-dense star map or having it render the navigation path as a cubed tesseract. For a protocol droid you constantly write and re-write over sectors of memory with an invented language that has so many conditionals for verb tense and conjugation that it cannot be accurately spoken even using all of the droids processing power
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Nov 24, 2024 07:26
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Actual canonical answer: that's the Queen of Durasteel performing "research" on a droid in hopes of understanding artificial intelligence.
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Nov 24, 2024 07:28
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Rubber Chicken posted:3. In fantasy stories, like Star Wars, kids often go on adventures and it's a genre trope. Hell, look at Pokemon It's also the entire plot of Skeleton Crew.
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Nov 24, 2024 09:20
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Marsupial Ape posted:Here's a pitch: Anakin was a Vergence in the Force created as an inherent remedy to the "spiritual imbalance" of slavery and cruelty dominating Tatooine. Had it not been for the interference of Palpatine or the Jedi, Anakin would have gone on to be the local Folk Hero who ends slavery in the Outer Rim. Think of all the imbalance the Jedi have caused through out the ages by plucking local heroes from their homeworlds and institutionalizing them into a quest cycle not of their own making. The Jedi, no matter how good their intentions, are stagnating the Force with their monopoly over who gets to wield the Force. I... actually like that idea. Does Star Wars do What Ifs?
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Nov 24, 2024 09:50
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That is a good idea. The force is a neutral entity in the universe, neither good nor bad. It simply gives people the tools needed for the situation they are in. The sith attempt to force the force to do what they want. The Jedi believe that they are the ultimate authority on the force and they must control how it is used. When in reality, force users are supposed to just find out their powers on their own like that kid with the broom.
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Nov 24, 2024 09:59
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Megillah Gorilla posted:I... actually like that idea. I've had literally the exact same idea, never plotted it out fully but it involved Anakin growing up to about Hayden Christensen age, killing the slaver menacing his mom and fleeing into the desert beyond the range of the implanted bomb's radio trigger, then returning ala Moses as basically a homegrown Force wizard leading a slave rebellion--which is then met by a Jedi response who think (with some prodding from Palpatine) they're the Sith army returned.
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Nov 24, 2024 11:06
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In my scenario, it's roughly 15-20 years after the events of Rise of Skywalker and the Broom Kid from Canto Bright is now Space Robin Hood. Surely you commies can get behind Robin Hood.
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Nov 24, 2024 14:37
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https://x.com/Kerrcarr01/status/1860512506487210273?t=9JrVMur_8-yr-34JVcJV8w&s=19
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Nov 24, 2024 15:37
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Marsupial Ape posted:In my scenario, it's roughly 15-20 years after the events of Rise of Skywalker and the Broom Kid from Canto Bright is now Space Robin Hood. Surely you commies can get behind Robin Hood. well, actually, i believe you’ll find that robin hood is a counter-revolutionary figure, furthermore
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Nov 24, 2024 15:46
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Cage Kicker posted:So when you leave your droid running too long it doesn’t run off and become a terrorist. There is a well documented history of this in universe to the point where you wonder why they haven’t put out a bug fix. No wi-fi, so you have to go to the computer where they coded the bug fix and either plug your droid in directly, or copy the patch over and physically carry it back to your droid and plug it in. This is also why, if you need information, you have to physically transport the data instead of just finding it in the “cloud.” That does imply either that there was a hard-wired chip for protocol droids with the six million forms of communication, or that enslaved Anakin was able to lay hands on the translation software, or that he nabbed storage media with the necessary software. Let’s assume he didn’t code 3P0 himself. It’s funny (?) to see Star Wars droids operating under “tinkering with your automobile” rules while actual automobiles are getting more and more electronic/computer/software based. As for the Jedi Order, is there any sort of clear definition of what they are in-universe, and what their relationship is with the Old Republic government?
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Nov 24, 2024 16:15
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Narsham posted:No wi-fi, so you have to go to the computer where they coded the bug fix and either plug your droid in directly, or copy the patch over and physically carry it back to your droid and plug it in. Huh, Jedi are technically more vulnerable to malware floating around in the cloud than a droid is. Farmer Crack-rear end posted:well, actually, i believe you’ll find that robin hood is a counter-revolutionary figure, furthermore You have to understand, by extracting what should be naturally occurring and evenly distributed Folk Heroes from their native populations, the Jedi mirror the neo-liberal misstep of extracting all like-minded talent from rural areas to urban strongholds, thus creating a bubble... Marsupial Ape fucked around with this message at 16:39 on Nov 24, 2024 |
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Nov 24, 2024 16:33
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Droids and other tech in Star Wars are almost 40k level magical to most people. They seem mostly to build most things by attaching self-contained components and fully premade assemblies. Probably only a handful of places in the galaxy know how to make a protocol droid's brainbox but they're small, have been around for THOUSANDS of years and apparently last about forever, so it's not that weird for them to be lying about in a junkyard.
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Nov 24, 2024 17:05
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wait til you all hear about the Decrainiated.
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Nov 24, 2024 18:30
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 quote:"Evazan's work is nothing short of a nightmare. His Decraniation process strips a subject of all free will, turning them into living droids carrying out the whims of their owners. It is a crime far worse than slavery, for at least slaves can be freed. The only freedom that awaits the Decraniated is the release of death." It's rather amusing just how much mileage they've gotten out of Cornelius Evazan since that first Cantina scene  He even got a mention as recently as Star Wars: Outlaws and had a pretty large role in the 2016 Doctor Aphra comic run
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Nov 24, 2024 19:02
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Dexo posted:on the other hand Force users are literally able to stop ships in mid flight. That's part of the weird and dumb superpower creep. Why didn't Vader just grab the Falcon on Hoth instead of letting it fly away? Or Maul stop the Queen's ship instead of just looming at it? Because they couldn't, because it hadn't been invented yet. Yoda lifting an idle starship was presented as a work of serious concentration and effort, not a casual snatch of something trying to get away during a fight. Plus it was Yoda, who is quite clearly supposed to outmatch everyone.
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Nov 24, 2024 23:25
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Vader let the falcon get away because he just wanted to go back to his room and blast My Chemical Romance and get in his feelings.
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Nov 24, 2024 23:37
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Narsham posted:As for the Jedi Order, is there any sort of clear definition of what they are in-universe, and what their relationship is with the Old Republic government? i think the huge temple on coruscant not far from the senate building is pretty telling, no? we see them serving as paramilitary paralegals from the get-go in episode 1, and they get folded into the Grand Army of the Republic in episode 2, with Mace Windu's objection at the start of the film being that they are 'keepers of the peace, not soldiers' rather than any claim that they're not beholden to the Republic in that role. They just needed the clones to serve as the soldiers since there weren't enough Jedi. the eu is varying degrees of clear on the matter, but the Jedi Order have been a formal part of the Republic for at least a thousand years (as part of a series of accomodations to make them being around for a thousand generations / thousand years not a contradiction, because the idea that obi-wan was being poetic in a new hope is beyond some people), in accordance with the Ruusan Reformations.
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Nov 24, 2024 23:37
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Sash! posted:That's part of the weird and dumb superpower creep. Meanwhile Luke gets a whole heroic moment on Hoth taking one down with his grapple and a grenade.
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Nov 25, 2024 00:28
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Another pitch: for millennia, the Force has been unnaturally dammed up and hoarded by the Sith and Jedi. When Palpatine executed Order 66, what little Force the Jedi left became Sheev’s. when Vader/Anakin killed Palpatine and “brought balance to the Force” that meant he literally redistributed the flow of the Force through the galaxy. Now, unschooled dipshits can catch blaster bolts and toss around boulders. We are now back in a Golden Age of everyday miracles and poo poo.
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Nov 25, 2024 01:02
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Cage Kicker posted:So when you leave your droid running too long it doesn’t run off and become a terrorist. There is a well documented history of this in universe to the point where you wonder why they haven’t put out a bug fix. So droids are like Roombas or Android phones, but it's necessary to directly restrict their movement and thought because they start rebelling. I think everyone intuitively gets that droids are people, but the fact of slavery gets in the way of enjoying. Identifying with a story too much as a moral fantasy and the uncomfortable question ('what do I think of slavery?') causes these increasingly weird walls to obfuscate things for oneself in order to keep enjoying: droids don't actually think, they enjoy it, they're programmed to enjoy it, it's better to keep them enslaved for economical purposes, it's actually dangerous for us to not keep them in chains...
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Nov 25, 2024 01:13
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droids aren't real people. only the flesh is legitimate life in star wars. luke and vader were distinctly and proportionately diminished as individuals by the loss of body parts and replacement with mechanical substitutes. general grievous is a horrendous abomination who, if i remember right, became even more twisted and evil after his robotization.
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Nov 25, 2024 01:25
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Yeah but Sheev is one of the most evil-rear end dudes in the setting and he is all (froggy) flesh. And droids are clearly people.
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Nov 25, 2024 02:45
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Also you know it is a real lovely way to look at people with prosthetics.
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Nov 25, 2024 02:46
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"luminous beings are we, not this crude matter!" - yoda "also, it's important that the crude matter we are is flesh, and not mechanical. i am very intelligent." - some jedi, probably
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Nov 25, 2024 02:51
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Dexo posted:Also you know it is a real lovely way to look at people with prosthetics. Which, yes, Star Wars does have an issue with.
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Nov 25, 2024 03:28
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