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Wildeyes
Nov 3, 2011
I'm on episode 12. This show is loving dope and it makes me giddy. The stuff between Adora and Catra is high-quality drama that, honestly, I really missed when I watched the Legend of Korra. It helps that the voice acting is pitch-perfect.

The gently caress is with all the neckbeards bitching about this show on Youtube? Can't they pick their fight with a pro-diversity show that actually sucks?

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The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."

sexpig by night posted:

Where was Grizzlor by the way, totally missed him. Was he just chillin in the background in the Fright Zone?

Apparently he even had lines, but he’s definitely in the first couple of episodes.

Vorpal Cat
Mar 19, 2009

Oh god what did I just post?

Wildeyes posted:

The gently caress is with all the neckbeards bitching about this show on Youtube? Can't they pick their fight with a pro-diversity show that actually sucks?

I just wanted to find some cute videos of people reacting to how gloriously gay episode 8 was and instead my search results are drowned in a sea of altright losers bitching about how SJWs are trying to ruin everything, it's loving infuriating.

amigolupus
Aug 25, 2017

Vorpal Cat posted:

I just wanted to find some cute videos of people reacting to how gloriously gay episode 8 was and instead my search results are drowned in a sea of altright losers bitching about how SJWs are trying to ruin everything, it's loving infuriating.

OTOH, at least the chuds all hating on the show means this won't turn into another MLP situation, so I consider that a win.

Xander77
Apr 6, 2009

Fuck it then. For another pit sandwich and some 'tater salad, I'll post a few more.



Wildeyes posted:


The gently caress is with all the neckbeards bitching about this show on Youtube? Can't they pick their fight with a pro-diversity show that actually sucks?
Yeah. I don't exactly remember the original, but is there any reason to dislike the show beyond "loving S-Jews"? I mean... the original version was pretty gay as well.

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."

Xander77 posted:

Yeah. I don't exactly remember the original, but is there any reason to dislike the show beyond "loving S-Jews"? I mean... the original version was pretty gay as well.

The original one was a cartoon aimed firmly at girls, and boys in the 80s would never have watched it. I don’t get why they’re so up in arms about it now.

Nerdietalk
Dec 23, 2014

I assume that 1) its just the next cause they want to rally around and 2) giving girls positive depictions of different body types and representation other than hourglass white women makes it harder for their bullying to work in the future.

Wildeyes
Nov 3, 2011

The_Doctor posted:

The original one was a cartoon aimed firmly at girls, and boys in the 80s would never have watched it. I don’t get why they’re so up in arms about it now.

I never watched the original, but my friend has been a big She-Ra fan since childhood, and she loves the new show. She told me she rewatched a few episodes of OG She-Ra and was forced to admit that the show, even though it was still nostalgic for her, was kind of garbage.

I really don't think it's about the new show sullying the original's "legacy," if it really has one. It's just because Gamergaters think that the show is appealing to the Tumblr crowd, and they can't stand anything that makes their sworn enemies happy.

The TV tropes article mentions that male IMDB users give the show an average rating of 5.5/10 and female users give it a 8.6/10. I still don't get it. I have a much easier time understanding them brigading against a Star Wars movie, but this is a show aimed at girls for god's sake.

Wildeyes fucked around with this message at 16:54 on Nov 30, 2018

Nemo2342
Nov 25, 2007

Have A Day



Nap Ghost

The_Doctor posted:

The original one was a cartoon aimed firmly at girls, and boys in the 80s would never have watched it. I don’t get why they’re so up in arms about it now.

As a boy in the 80s I don't remember anything about the She-Ra show, but I definitely wanted the Horde toys and playsets for my He-Man figures to play in. That Fright Zone playset with the snake puppet was the best!

Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008

This is Urotsuki.
Finished the series. After getting second-bested by Adora AGAIN, Catra’s isn’t coming back. Her sole goal now is Hoardak’s big chair.

Also don’t listen to online comments on shows you goobers! These are the same idiots that rage-quit Doctor Who because Thirteen is a ~female~.

twistedmentat
Nov 21, 2003

Its my party
and I'll die if
I want to
Alt right poo poo Nazi incel nerds think everything has to be for them, an no one else.

Vorpal Cat
Mar 19, 2009

Oh god what did I just post?

Chokes McGee posted:

Also don’t listen to online comments on shows you goobers! These are the same idiots that rage-quit Doctor Who because Thirteen is a ~female~.

Now if only we could get youtube search results to follow that advice.

Wildeyes
Nov 3, 2011

Chokes McGee posted:

Finished the series. After getting second-bested by Adora AGAIN, Catra’s isn’t coming back. Her sole goal now is Hoardak’s big chair.

Catra leaving Adora to fall to her death was a gut punch. I don't think she can come back from that. This isn't like Zuko in Avatar S2.

YorexTheMad
Apr 16, 2007
OBAMA IS A FALSE MESSIAH

ABANDON ALL HOPE

Wildeyes posted:

I never watched the original, but my friend has been a big She-Ra fan since childhood, and she loves the new show. She told me she rewatched a few episodes of OG She-Ra and was forced to admit that the show, even though it was still nostalgic for her, was kind of garbage.

Anecdotes are not data, but this was my experience as well. My friend legitimately holds the original She-Ra's design as some kind of feminine ideal, so she never came around to new-She-Ras's look. But she fell in love hard with the other princesses. Especially Glimmer ("you don't ever see girls with her body on shows").

She also went hard for Netossa and Spinerrella and was angry we didn't see more of them.

I'm not sure why this is the show a certain class of people have chosen as their hill to die on, but there you go.

Mr.Pibbleton
Feb 3, 2006

Aleuts rock, chummer.

YorexTheMad posted:

Anecdotes are not data, but this was my experience as well. My friend legitimately holds the original She-Ra's design as some kind of feminine ideal, so she never came around to new-She-Ras's look. But she fell in love hard with the other princesses. Especially Glimmer ("you don't ever see girls with her body on shows").

She also went hard for Netossa and Spinerrella and was angry we didn't see more of them.

I'm not sure why this is the show a certain class of people have chosen as their hill to die on, but there you go.

Someone put up an hour and half video about how much they hate they show, but in the first minute they say they only watched ten minutes of the first episode.

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012
:gas::gas::gas:

One thing to remember about Episode 11 is that Catra reached her decision after being bombarded by very specific memories in a very specific pattern by a Definitely Trustworthy And Not At All Sinister AI who really wanted Adora to abandon her emotional connections. Seriously, that shot of Light Hope telling her to 'let go' immediately after Catra walked away was shady as gently caress, and I really doubt that the parallels with Episode 7 were accidental. Just an over/under on how many episodes it is until we find out that Mara was totally right, I reckon.

In that context, Catra fell so hard and fast because she was subjected to a sustained and vicious emotional assault by someone very powerful and very manipulative who went after her psychological weak spots with a hammer, and because she didn't have a good enough, healthy enough support network to help her bounce back. In a show about the power of friendship. Yeah, I wouldn't write her off just yet.

Argue
Sep 29, 2005

I represent the Philippines

Wildeyes posted:

Catra leaving Adora to fall to her death was a gut punch. I don't think she can come back from that. This isn't like Zuko in Avatar S2.

Zuko actively tried to kill Aang, then conquered an entire kingdom. I would say Catra hasn't gone anywhere near that far.

tsob
Sep 26, 2006

Chalalala~

Argue posted:

Zuko actively tried to kill Aang, then conquered an entire kingdom. I would say Catra hasn't gone anywhere near that far.

On the other hand, Zuko was clearly conflicted about his actions and what his nation was doing from the start. I don't think Catra is.

JazzFlight
Apr 29, 2006

Oooooooooooh!

Dragonball Z "redeemed" Vegeta and he killed a whole buncha people, so I think these shows usually gloss over any previous sins if a character is supposed to become good.

tsob
Sep 26, 2006

Chalalala~
Well yea, if the writer wants to make a character good they'll find a way regardless; I just don't think Catra looks like someone heading in that direction at the moment, primarily because I think she knows the Horde is evil and doesn't actually care. Which doesn't make it impossible (see the Vegeta example again), but does make it less likely in my opinion.

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."
Yo, I’m watching Avatar:TLA through for the first time, and have just got to the start of season 3. No spoilers, guys.

socialsecurity
Aug 30, 2003





JazzFlight posted:

Dragonball Z "redeemed" Vegeta and he killed a whole buncha people, so I think these shows usually gloss over any previous sins if a character is supposed to become good.

Vegeta never really killed anyone actually it was either suicide/Nappa. He killed some people later after his good turn at a Tourney but he was under the Majin influence so there is some question of his culpability.

Roobanguy
May 30, 2011

socialsecurity posted:

Vegeta never really killed anyone actually it was either suicide/Nappa. He killed some people later after his good turn at a Tourney but he was under the Majin influence so there is some question of his culpability.

vegeta blew up an entire planet before reaching earth.

sexpig by night
Sep 8, 2011

by Azathoth

socialsecurity posted:

Vegeta never really killed anyone actually it was either suicide/Nappa. He killed some people later after his good turn at a Tourney but he was under the Majin influence so there is some question of his culpability.

He blew up a planet and he killed a bunch of namekians I think, not counting the no doubt countless off screen kills he had when he was a Frieza Boy

socialsecurity
Aug 30, 2003





sexpig by night posted:

He blew up a planet and he killed a bunch of namekians I think, not counting the no doubt countless off screen kills he had when he was a Frieza Boy

Bug planet was anime filler. Namekians don't count as people.

SUPERMAN'S GAL PAL
Feb 21, 2006

Holy Moly! DARKSEID IS!
I grew up with He-Man and She-Ra, I assure you any whining from Nazi chudbros is because 1) it’s a desperate attempt to get clicks/ad revenue, 2) they know they’re beaten and they resent. For all the disgusting harassment from these men it’s from a place of fear obfuscated by pathetic fury over a cartoon that will normalize a variety of sexualities and body types to people who aren’t them. These guys ought to be mocked, ignored, and ostracized until they choose to become better people - which had they bothered watching the original shows perhaps they’d learn something about not being a hateful jackass. Even Skeletor saves a couple kids in the Christmas special ffs.

I wonder what the overlap of these guys versus bronies is considering that gross group looked down on the original show, in part because the character design was larger-bodied and the stories weren’t as “deep.” :jerkbag:

Nephthys
Mar 27, 2010

Wildeyes posted:

Catra leaving Adora to fall to her death was a gut punch. I don't think she can come back from that. This isn't like Zuko in Avatar S2.

Catra does say that she fully expected Adora to survive. TBH I'm still not 100% convinced she'd actually flat-out kill her if she had the opportunity. She didn't even really try to in the last fight.

Zuko and Azula literally killed Aang.

tsob
Sep 26, 2006

Chalalala~
Azula did. Zuko was there, and Azula said he did it, since she knew it might not have actually killed Aang but regardless, Zuko wasn't the one who did the deed. Zuko's entire story arc in season three starts with how torn up he is about it too. The difference is in in attitude, not deed. Zuko did (at least, so far) more evil things but he always seemed conflicted about them. Catra doesn't, and even seems to acknowledge and just not care that she's one of the bad guys so long as she can eventually be a leading bad guy. Catra is far more reminiscent of Azula than she is Zuko, at least, so far.

tsob fucked around with this message at 12:50 on Dec 1, 2018

Open Source Idiom
Jan 4, 2013

SUPERMAN'S GAL PAL posted:

I wonder what the overlap of these guys versus bronies is considering that gross group looked down on the original show, in part because the character design was larger-bodied and the stories weren’t as “deep.” :jerkbag:

Fairly high I'd imagine. You know how they say cartoons affect people so strongly because they bypass certain incredulous parts of the brain? Which means that people are more likely to cry at a sad cartoon than at a human being's simulation (or genuine expression) of pain/anguish/despair? I reckon that's the same thing going on here, and that the rage these idiots feel is partly affected by the way cartoons can just get under their skins in a way that Ghost Busters or Rey or Fish loving Mooney could not.

That and, look, I love cartoons, bu there's an unfortunate minority of people who are basically overgrown children -- with all the emotional intelligence and cognitive reasoning that implies. Between them and the actual children, who are taking their first, tentative steps into activism, and you're going to get a lot of angry people on either side of the divide.

Mr.Pibbleton
Feb 3, 2006

Aleuts rock, chummer.



http://gempiss.tumblr.com/post/180666055687/rorvk-forgot-to-post-this-here-lol

Bow is bro.




Open Source Idiom posted:

Fairly high I'd imagine. You know how they say cartoons affect people so strongly because they bypass certain incredulous parts of the brain? Which means that people are more likely to cry at a sad cartoon than at a human being's simulation (or genuine expression) of pain/anguish/despair? I reckon that's the same thing going on here, and that the rage these idiots feel is partly affected by the way cartoons can just get under their skins in a way that Ghost Busters or Rey or Fish loving Mooney could not.

Speaking of...

Son of Rodney posted:

My girlfriend loves these cartoon feel good shows and I can stand to watch most of them, but new she-ra is aggressively bad. Like loving terrible, bad, lovely and if it was a physical object it'd stink like gently caress too. And this is coming from a dude who was super into the original she-ra as a kid, flying rainbow unicorn and pretty dresses hell yea.

:allears:

Blazing Ownager
Jun 2, 2007

by FactsAreUseless

twistedmentat posted:

Alt right poo poo Nazi incel nerds think everything has to be for them, an no one else.

The problem is when you get so insulated you see them everywhere, even where they don't exist, whenever there's the slightest disagreement.

feedmegin
Jul 30, 2008

Blazing Ownager posted:

The problem is when you get so insulated you see them everywhere, even where they don't exist, whenever there's the slightest disagreement.

AV/post combo

Wildeyes
Nov 3, 2011

tsob posted:

Azula did. Zuko was there, and Azula said he did it, since she knew it might not have actually killed Aang but regardless, Zuko wasn't the one who did the deed. Zuko's entire story arc in season three starts with how torn up he is about it too. The difference is in in attitude, not deed. Zuko did (at least, so far) more evil things but he always seemed conflicted about them. Catra doesn't, and even seems to acknowledge and just not care that she's one of the bad guys so long as she can eventually be a leading bad guy. Catra is far more reminiscent of Azula than she is Zuko, at least, so far.

Yep, Catra is definitely more like Azula than Zuko. Also, I think it matters that Aang wasn't Zuko's friend at the time. He was just an enemy of the state. Whereas Adora was literally Catra's very best friend.

Ramos
Jul 3, 2012


Different coping mechanisms at play here for Zuko and Catra. Zuko had a kind and loving mother that generally reminded him that the Fire Nation wasn't all bad. He just got the nation confused with the governing power in terms of morals. Catra's got no real source of proof that there's anything noble or good about the Horde, she's just doing what she needs to to survive. Adora was a convenient anchor that didn't prove anything moral related.

The show's fun by the way but I got to thank it for giving me and my gf an excuse to watch OG She-Ra and He-Man and boy oh boy, those shows are wild rides for how dumb they get. It's great.

tsob
Sep 26, 2006

Chalalala~

Ramos posted:

Catra's got no real source of proof that there's anything noble or good about the Horde, she's just doing what she needs to to survive.

No, she's not. She isn't trying to survive, she's trying to "win". She wants more power and influence over a system she's clearly aware is evil but doesn't care. And she's embracing that system. When Entrapta told her that her system would gently caress with the planet and it was very obviously doing awful things to the weather, her only concern was "how can I exploit this?" That is not just "trying to survive". Calling it that is just minimizing her culpability. She's also been offered several chances to walk away from the Horde and refused them in favor of returning to get higher up the totem.

If Catra is ever going to have a change of heart I don't think it'll be because of anything to do with Adora, who she seemed to get pleasure from causing emotional distress to in the finale or from her new team mates (Scorpia and Entrapta), since she seems to see them only as pawns, but from getting as much power as she wants at some point and realizing that it doesn't actually satisfy her at all. I can see Catra taking over the Horde when Hordak is temporarily absent, or getting some weapon (like the black garnet maybe?) that gives her immense power and results in a clear and definite win but that leaves her emotionally empty. The only role I can see Adora or her newer team playing in such a scenario is that Catra's actions deliberately include driving them away, which she's initially indifferent to but eventually feels the absence of when looking for lasting and real satisfaction over the allure of power.

Also, regarding Catra possibly being a princess due to the inclusion of a profile with a cat tail in Light Hope's representation of all the princesses: isn't the cat-like one a bit too thick limbed to be Catra? The rest are all so exact and specific to their character that it seems weird Catra's would be beefier looking than the actual design. Not impossible either, since it might be deliberately done to give a shadow of doubt either way, but it seems only suggestive at best to me because of the difference in proportions.

tsob fucked around with this message at 13:19 on Dec 2, 2018

Wildeyes
Nov 3, 2011
The cat-tailed silhouette looks too thicc to be Catra to me. But it may be a princess from her own race who comes in the Horde's way at some point, which may give her some conflict about what she's doing.

Senior Scarybagels
Jan 6, 2011

nom nom
Grimey Drawer

Nemo2342 posted:

I think you misspelled Entrapta.

I can agree that Entrapta is the best princess and Second best washu.

Space Robot
Sep 3, 2011

I find it kind of odd that people complain the new She-Ra isn't feminine enough, when the old one had a fairly athletic build, herself. When you take into account the different art styles, they both have about the same body type.

Watermelon Daiquiri
Jul 10, 2010


Boobs. It's boobs.

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SUPERMAN'S GAL PAL
Feb 21, 2006

Holy Moly! DARKSEID IS!
The complaints are also silly because from a practical standpoint same body types meant just one mould you could think give different hair and accessories. Even as a kid I recognized that!

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