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AlternateNu posted:I'd argue there was plenty of lesbian energy without the need for bad redemption arcs. Or if they were going to do it, it should've been a good-bye kiss as Catra sacrifices herself instead of Shadow Weaver. I think it's more likely that Catra would sacrifice Shadow Weaver.
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May 18, 2020 20:01
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Hispanic! At The Disco posted:I think it's more likely that Catra would sacrifice Shadow Weaver. I was very disappointed that didn’t happen. “In you go! *push*”
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May 18, 2020 20:14
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AlternateNu posted:I'd argue there was plenty of lesbian energy without the need for bad redemption arcs. Or if they were going to do it, it should've been a good-bye kiss as Catra sacrifices herself instead of Shadow Weaver. Nah I'd rather not have another tragic ending where the lesbians die, thanks  seen too many of those. I'm not sure why everyone thinks the severely-traumatized and abused character can't get better once the things traumatizing her are gone. She's not even fully "redeemed," half the cast doesn't even trust or like her, adora's just gay. I hope that now she's in a better situation she can work through her stuff.e: Due to the hays code it was literally impossible to show same-sex attraction on tv without killing the characters for like 50 years, because they thought otherwise kids would want to be gay, so forgive me for being happy at a sappy ending for once. i'm not used to it. There would have been riots among the lesbians if catra died because of this lol Beekeeping and You fucked around with this message at 20:30 on May 18, 2020 |
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May 18, 2020 20:23
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Hispanic! At The Disco posted:I think it's more likely that Catra would sacrifice Shadow Weaver. Shadow Weaver should've gotten merc'd after one of her 12-dimensional plans falls through. No benevolent sacrifice. Just "whoops. Your luck ran out, lady." Beekeeping and You posted:Nah I'd rather not have another tragic ending where the lesbians die, thanks They're not the only lesbians. >_> Besides, Korra did it better. AlternateNu fucked around with this message at 20:34 on May 18, 2020 |
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May 18, 2020 20:31
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Beekeeping and You posted:Some people have problems with this season but have you considered: i am a lesbian and AAAAAAA HOLY SHIIIIIIIIT THEY DID IT I had not considered the first part but I assure you I did consider the second!
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May 18, 2020 20:35
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AlternateNu posted:They're not the only lesbians. >_> But they kissed for real, unambiguously! And they're the main characters!! I know Korra is also, but!! Catra definitely did some stuff wrong but the euphoria of seeing this poor traumatized lesbian kid get a happy ending is making me  and i hope any kids who lash out and make terrible decisions can see that and know they can be better, and that the future doesn't have to be more of the same.
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May 18, 2020 20:45
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Let's go lesbians let's go!AlternateNu posted:They're not the only lesbians. >_> 
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May 18, 2020 20:46
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I haven't seen Korra yet, but I also get the feeling that Korrasami is more... I don't want to say sanitized exactly? More pretty and perfect for sure. Garnet as well is usually perfect. Catra and Adora feel a lot more true to life, in the pining, and the complete faith that the other person doesn't want you the way you want them, the lashing out... I've met plenty of catras and plenty of adoras. I see myself in those characters. Idk, I guess most people wouldn't pick up on that, but holy poo poo I am glad this is how it played out tl;dr seeing their entire relationship play out and knowing it's canon and intended is genuinely a huge deal for me and my community i don't wanna speak for anyone else but when catra went "She doesn't want me! Not like I want her!!" I was... whoof. I've been there.
Beekeeping and You fucked around with this message at 20:56 on May 18, 2020 |
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May 18, 2020 20:52
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May 18, 2020 21:00
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 this is what i meant. now to go watch korra
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May 18, 2020 21:02
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Also, here's the same point I just made but much more eloquent: https://twitter.com/Gingerhazing/status/1262469982157332481
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May 18, 2020 21:07
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Senerio posted:Also, here's the same point I just made but much more eloquent: I agree with this point, and I love basically all lesbian rep we get... ...but I am just sooo glad a girl who's been abused, who hurts people before they hurt her and has developed a mean streak to cope, gets a happy ending. THAT is the story I've seen play out over and over again with my gay friends and it never ends well in fiction but gently caress! here we are!!  Not just a happy ending either!! She's vital to the story and the heroine, even if she feels useless!! Aaaah!
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May 18, 2020 21:14
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this is a magical girl show for children. i think its more important to show characters being redeemed and accepted than it is to show them being somehow 'punished' for their crimes. punitive justice is a failure of society and a uniquely capitalist distortion of righteousness. god bless.
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May 18, 2020 21:16
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Just Andi Now posted:I'd rather have a lackluster/inadequate redemption arc than another in a long line of "they can't be together because reasons" endings, to be honest. This feels like a false binary. I mean, it IS a false binary. Just because they can't (or more accurately shouldn't) be together doesn't mean Adora can't find happiness elsewhere. It's not even about "she should be punished instead" it's about "this show did not convincingly earn the idea that being in a relationship with Catra is a good thing". Captain Oblivious fucked around with this message at 21:25 on May 18, 2020 |
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May 18, 2020 21:22
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Senerio posted:Also, here's the same point I just made but much more eloquent: I'll give credit where credit is due, Noelle and the team loving nailed it for making it for making all the relationships seems organic. Shipping wars are nothing new they go back to Star Trek Spock x Kirk but with She-ra you'd have to be really, really dense to not pick up on how deep the personal feelings ran for most of the main pairings even the non-romantic. Nothing swerved or came out of nowhere it's all easily explainable in a reading from the characterization all the way back to S1. Except maybe Entrapa and Hordak, but only because they don't share appreciable screen time until season 3. Also, am I the only one who thinks the timeline for S5 must be like nigh a year or so? So much happens between ep 1 and the finale it's impossible its a matter of weeks more like months, it makes the redemption arc much more plausible in the time frame.
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May 18, 2020 21:23
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Y'all dumb. Literally the entire time I was watching I was going "Please don't bury your gays! Please don't bury your gays! Please don't bury your gays!" Like, killing gay characters is overdone and bordeline offensive due to its cowardly "have your cake and eat it too" mentality to people who want to put LGBT+ representation in their work for good media coverage but not have to actually do it. And that's not even getting into the mental health and abuse victim angles. Speaking of abuse, here is Noelle explaining how Shadow Weaver was not redeemed:  Covok fucked around with this message at 21:26 on May 18, 2020 |
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May 18, 2020 21:23
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Captain Oblivious posted:This feels like a false binary. I mean, it IS a false binary. why do we have to earn it straight couples don't have to earn it, they just get to throw that poo poo in awkwardly.like i'm watching ATLA for the first time and any time they want to suggest a character likes another one they just put a soft filter and hearts on, catra and adora have CHEMISTRY
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May 18, 2020 21:29
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Beekeeping and You posted:why do we have to earn it It's not good or cool then either. I'm no happier about Catradora than I am about Bella and Edward. The fact that it's LGBT doesn't make it any less gross and toxic. Have the self respect to get together with someone less self obsessed y'all, let them heal elsewhere that's not your responsibility. 
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May 18, 2020 21:30
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Captain Oblivious posted:It's not good or cool then either. Ok sure but c'mon you know Adora would never look at catra trying to heal and be like ehhh not my problem that's a weird roboty way of looking at relationships? I guess I just don't think Catra's irredeemably toxic? She was a child soldier.
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May 18, 2020 21:33
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I think “wait for the person who’s abusing you to say ‘I love you,’ then proceed to make out with them” is a bad lesson for kids, and a better one would be “sometimes you’ll love people, but they keep hurting you, and they’re not gonna stop and it’s not your responsibility to fix them, and it’s gonna hurt but you’re gonna have to let them go.” It’s not about punishment, it’s about teaching kids responsibility, and you can do and also still have Adora be mega gay.
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May 18, 2020 21:35
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Beekeeping and You posted:Ok sure but c'mon you know Adora would never look at catra trying to heal and be like ehhh not my problem She’s probably not irredeemably toxic but using a relationship as a mechanism to “fix” somebody is a super unhealthy message to be pushing. Your partner is not your goddang therapist. And believing you did a bunch of bad poo poo out of love does not make all the bad poo poo you did any less bad.
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May 18, 2020 21:37
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Beekeeping and You posted:I agree with this point, and I love basically all lesbian rep we get... Speaking as a kid who was emotionally abused by their mother, I identified with Catra from start to finish, especially during the S4 long meltdown where she was pushing anyone who remotely cared about her away. I cannot possibly shout at the top of my lungs louder that two women everyone knew were a couple and were convinced nothing would ever come of it not only professed their love for each other and openly kissed on a kid's show but that very love between them basically saved an entire planet. I mean I'm a cis male and I know how big of a deal that is. They made a focal queer couple explicit and undeniable and took us on a huge emotional rollercoaster to get there. The showrunners fought and fought and fought and finally got their ending through corporate with no strings attached, and everything in the show led up to that moment AND THEY DELIVERED. If that doesn't win them a GLAAD show award then I don't even loving know. Okay I'll stop gushing now
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May 18, 2020 21:38
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Beekeeping and You posted:Ok sure but c'mon you know Adora would never look at catra trying to heal and be like ehhh not my problem Sure, but they showed us like four or five other child soldiers who are perfectly well adjusted, “child soldier” isn’t nearly as bad in this universe as it is in the real one. Catra was uniquely toxic, unlike Adora or Kyle or Regelio or Lonnie.
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May 18, 2020 21:38
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Saucy_Rodent posted:Sure, but they showed us like four or five other child soldiers who are perfectly well adjusted, “child soldier” isn’t nearly as bad in this universe as it is in the real one. Catra was uniquely toxic, unlike Adora or Kyle or Regelio or Lonnie. I feel like this is more about if you think Catra is a likable character or not than anything else e: i don't mean that in a "YOUR OPINION WRONG" way i mean that in a "I am sympathetic to this person" way
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May 18, 2020 21:39
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Saucy_Rodent posted:I think “wait for the person who’s abusing you to say ‘I love you,’ then proceed to make out with them” is a bad lesson for kids, and a better one would be “sometimes you’ll love people, but they keep hurting you, and they’re not gonna stop and it’s not your responsibility to fix them, and it’s gonna hurt but you’re gonna have to let them go.” It’s not about punishment, it’s about teaching kids responsibility, and you can do and also still have Adora be mega gay. Yeah this is a better way of saying it than I could muster. Also still never going to really stop making a sour face at Catra’s final plea being “Stay, just once!” for reasons other posters have already covered
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May 18, 2020 21:41
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actually the problem seems to be i'm riding a high of AHHH REPRESENTATION while other people are like this is actually a bad message for kids, redeeming abusers will give them false hope e: i also don't think that was the moral at all, catra said she was doing work on herself and acknowledged there was a problem and even got an emotional support animal... but her actions in the previous seasons were loathesome enough that i don't really begrudge people who looked at that like oh that reminds me of someone i knew gently caress her Beekeeping and You fucked around with this message at 21:47 on May 18, 2020 |
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May 18, 2020 21:44
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That’s definitely part of it. The part of me that is soft squishy romance lover  definitely WANTS to like it but yeah.I can’t. It doesn’t hold up well under scrutiny
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May 18, 2020 21:46
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Saucy_Rodent posted:I think “wait for the person who’s abusing you to say ‘I love you,’ then proceed to make out with them” is a bad lesson for kids, and a better one would be “sometimes you’ll love people, but they keep hurting you, and they’re not gonna stop and it’s not your responsibility to fix them, and it’s gonna hurt but you’re gonna have to let them go.” It’s not about punishment, it’s about teaching kids responsibility, and you can do and also still have Adora be mega gay. I don't see where any of this fits with what actually happened in the final season? Catra made a choice, without any input or direction from Adora, to sacrifice herself to save Glimmer (or, well, mostly to protect Adora, but saving Glimmer was at least the result of her choice). She consciously makes an effort to apologize/work on her anger/etc. throughout the season. Adora isn't actually making any effort to 'fix' her (besides removing the chip, which, that doesn't count), but she does encourage Catra's own attempts at 'fixing' herself. Catra doesn't spend 12.5 episodes continuing to be lovely to Adora, only to declare love in the last 15 minutes of the series and wipe it all away, like you make it sound. She isn't 100% rehabilitated/redeemed/whatever by the end of the series, but that's not the point. The point is that she found her path, and she has supportive influences (not just Adora) around her now to help her along the way.
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May 18, 2020 21:47
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Yeah, Catra does acknowledge her faults, and seems to be working on them in the way she tries not to get angry or lash out for perceived slights, but her actions in the previous seasons were so loathsome, I also get the people who look at that like, nope, gently caress that. dammit must every issue have nuance  in my fanfiction i'll give the cat therapy
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May 18, 2020 21:50
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Captain Oblivious posted:I can’t. It doesn’t hold up well under scrutiny You, Watching a cartoon show: This doesn't make sense, the real world isn't like this, I can't believe they would try to convince us this is plausible
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May 18, 2020 21:50
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Cats don't talk. Show implausible, cannot enjoy.
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May 18, 2020 21:51
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the REAL disconnect is that there is nothing lesbians go more apeshit for than bitchy mean girls who bully people and act like vriska catra was fanservice all along
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May 18, 2020 21:55
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pentyne posted:You, Watching a cartoon show: This doesn't make sense, the real world isn't like this, I can't believe they would try to convince us this is plausible Is it so much to ask that shows gay and straight stop using romantic relationships as a means to validate and fix people? People try hard enough to do that poo poo in the real world and it absolutely does not work, stop feeding that fire ty
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May 18, 2020 21:55
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lesbians will look at azula from ATLA and go "damb anyone else gonna take that" and not wait for an answer no wonder the catra thing is so polarizing e: i have not seen atla
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May 18, 2020 22:00
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I think it is pretty important that it's the scapegoat, the child who got the heavier and more obvious abuse, who spends the whole season setting out to be a better person and finishes it off by reaching out to the golden child, the ideal girl whose existence was used to punish her and tell her she was worthless throughout her childhood. She does it because she can see that Adora was damaged and abused too, and because she understands her enough to know exactly how she's going to destroy herself. She didn't just try to heal herself, but someone else as well. That's an incredibly difficult thing to do, and an incredible act of heroism, and it's why Catra gets the karmic jackpot - to show other abused children that getting out of that pit is tough but worth it.
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May 18, 2020 22:01
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Captain Oblivious posted:Is it so much to ask that shows gay and straight stop using romantic relationships as a means to validate and fix people? People try hard enough to do that poo poo in the real world and it absolutely does not work, stop feeding that fire ty It's a story for the Catras of the world, not just for the Adoras. They're both protagonists and viewpoint characters. It's telling them that they can fix their poo poo, even if it's an uphill struggle against their worse instincts.
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May 18, 2020 22:03
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odd how any time gays kiss it has to be hyperexamined to see if its a 'bad message to send to kids'
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May 18, 2020 22:08
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Whenever there is openly gay media, there is a team of people coming out of the woodworks to hetsplain to us about how the measage is bad and toxic. This time we even get a side of "and they should have killed the lesbian abuse victim" too.
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May 18, 2020 22:14
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Queen Glimmer's arc in Season 4 kind of contrasts with Rapunzel's arc in the Tangled series. There were some "I'm queen, so I have to project authority now, not She-Ra, and you have to do what I say" insecurities along her dark road. For Rapunzel in "Rapunzel and the Great Tree" it was more like "When we disagree, and it can only be either this or that, I'm going to stand up for myself and do what I think should be done rather than going along just to be agreeable" when it came to what strategy with which to save everybody. Cassandra seemed to see it more like what Glimmer was doing
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May 18, 2020 22:16
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Beekeeping and You posted:lesbians will look at azula from ATLA and go "damb anyone else gonna take that" and not wait for an answer no wonder the catra thing is so polarizing According to the creators, if there was a season 4 of Last Airbender, it would have focused on rebuilding the world and helping Azula. However, the powers at be decided to put those funds to the live action movie. The comics picked up the plot but it quickly turned into "lets have her recover her mental breakdown and immediately turn back into a villain because she's the most iconic villain" because comics.
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May 18, 2020 22:17
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