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Catfishenfuego
Oct 21, 2008

Moist With Indignation
If there's one thing I know about heroin it's that if someone forcibly sticks you with a heroin needle once you are forever addicted and do a lot of very active and aggressive fighting until someone shuts down a central heroin control tower or someone loves you hard enough.

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CuwiKhons
Sep 24, 2009

Seven idiots and a bear walk into a dragon's lair.

Yeah I wanna be super clear that I know drug addiction is not a 'choice' and something many people on the inside desperately want out of, even though they don't have a control chip on their necks forcing them to stay in. My point was just that the drug metaphor falls apart there. Spinnerella isn't addicted to anything. She was not curious about what Horde Prime was peddling and was actively fighting against him. Then she got attacked and chipped. She's also not choosing to hide that chip from her wife out of a sense of shame or because she likes the way it feels but knows it's wrong and hurting her - she isn't making a choice at all.

Ultimately, this is a cartoon. The mind control chips have no parallel to real world scenarios because mind control isn't a real thing. Horde Prime acts like a cult leader because that was the real world reference for villainy that Noelle had. The control chips are still just control chips though, not some twisted metaphor about hiding religion from your friends and family.

Incelshok Na
Jul 2, 2020

by Hand Knit

CuwiKhons posted:

Ultimately, this is a cartoon. The mind control chips have no parallel to real world scenarios because mind control isn't a real thing. Horde Prime acts like a cult leader because that was the real world reference for villainy that Noelle had. The control chips are still just control chips though, not some twisted metaphor about hiding religion from your friends and family.

And the show is poorer for it and it makes me care less about Catra's arc. That's all I'm saying.

"choice" verbiage was only used in the context of end-stage addiction. When your partner says, "It's me or the drug" no one is more surprised than than the addict when they hardcore choose the drug. It's not a real choice, you are right, it is an addiction. That's why I am framing it all within the context of addiction?

Incelshok Na fucked around with this message at 05:42 on Jul 5, 2020

Pththya-lyi
Nov 8, 2009

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2020
I just want to know what Incelshok Na thinks Protestantism is

Incelshok Na
Jul 2, 2020

by Hand Knit

Pththya-lyi posted:

I just want to know what Incelshok Na thinks Protestantism is

An insane death cult where people pour water on themselves and never feel shame for anything because everything they do is OK'd by their obscene god?

CuwiKhons
Sep 24, 2009

Seven idiots and a bear walk into a dragon's lair.

Okay I think your problem is that you have a severe issue with religion and this probably isn't the thread for it. I'm a Jewish atheist (not a contradiction, believe it or not) and even I think you're getting a little weird here. Christianity, even the worst parts of it in America, is a lot more complicated than 'death cult'.

Incelshok Na
Jul 2, 2020

by Hand Knit

CuwiKhons posted:

Okay I think your problem is that you have a severe issue with religion and this probably isn't the thread for it. I'm a Jewish atheist (not a contradiction, believe it or not) and even I think you're getting a little weird here. Christianity, even the worst parts of it in America, is a lot more complicated than 'death cult'.

I'm a cradle atheist who grew up in a jewish neighborhood.

Christianity isn't more complicated than that in America. Look at Trump. His #1 biggest fans are Protestants. That's just how it is.

It's also why making them some kind of a big bad is stupid. They are plenty evil on their own and if you, as a parent, aren't educating your kids to avoid that sort of poo poo then well, what kind of a parent are you?

Showrunners working their trauma out is de rigueur but boring and also alien to most modern people. Heroin and addiction in general, on the other hand, is having quite the moment.

"Your friends might become addicts, they are worthy of love and compassion but also be careful around them because they will absolutely place their addiction first" is a good message. "Your friends might become Protestants and try to kill you and themselves" is something that doesn't really need to be said.

CuwiKhons
Sep 24, 2009

Seven idiots and a bear walk into a dragon's lair.

Right, well, I don't think continuing this conversation would have any further value so I'll just say I'm sorry that the final season didn't work for you as written but I'm glad you found a different metaphor to view it through that you enjoyed more. As someone who lives in the Scientology capital of the world and who has almost lost an uncle to suicide because of them, cult leaders work very well for me as a metaphor and I did not have the same issues.

Incelshok Na
Jul 2, 2020

by Hand Knit
Sorry about your uncle. I'm not sure how baptism plays into that but I don't know anything about Scientology.

That does make the show even more Hollywood and even less interesting though. Real failure to stick the landing in retrospect. I'm sad I posted, this thread made me like the show a lot less.

T-man
Aug 22, 2010


Talk shit, get bzzzt.

maybe it isn't for you.

Cattail Prophet
Apr 12, 2014

Incelshok Na posted:

Christianity isn't more complicated than that in America. Look at Trump. His #1 biggest fans are Protestants. That's just how it is.

You're using Protestant when you mean Evangelical.

Incelshok Na
Jul 2, 2020

by Hand Knit

Cattail Prophet posted:

You're using Protestant when you mean Evangelical.

Distinction without a difference.

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012
:gas::gas::gas:

Incelshok Na posted:

Distinction without a difference.

The Church of England are Protestants, and the idea of them having that kind of insane vice-like grip on their worshippers is hilarious.

T-man
Aug 22, 2010


Talk shit, get bzzzt.

Incelshok Na ate a 30 day probe for being super homophobic in another thread, I think it's safe to write them off as a troll, possibly an alt-right weirdo attracted to SA after lowtax stuff. If they come back I'd suggest ignoring them in the future, and not sending any sensitive links or content to them.

Xelkelvos
Dec 19, 2012

T-man posted:

Incelshok Na ate a 30 day probe for being super homophobic in another thread, I think it's safe to write them off as a troll, possibly an alt-right weirdo attracted to SA after lowtax stuff. If they come back I'd suggest ignoring them in the future, and not sending any sensitive links or content to them.

Lol.

Soonmot
Dec 19, 2002

Entrapta fucking loves robots




Grimey Drawer

T-man posted:

Incelshok Na ate a 30 day probe for being super homophobic in another thread, I think it's safe to write them off as a troll, possibly an alt-right weirdo attracted to SA after lowtax stuff. If they come back I'd suggest ignoring them in the future, and not sending any sensitive links or content to them.

I also just saw some hitler apologia from them in the USPOL thread so lol

pentyne
Nov 7, 2012

No recollections?

Soonmot posted:

I also just saw some hitler apologia from them in the USPOL thread so lol

They made over 100 posts in 3 days, they can't all be winners.

Pththya-lyi
Nov 8, 2009

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2020
BRB, going to my church egg bake. We're planning to destroy the universe, just like Martin Luther wanted!

Wittgen
Oct 13, 2012

We have decided to decline your offer of a butt kicking.
Pretty sure "horde sees all, horde knows all" was one of the 95 theses.

Motherfucker
Jul 16, 2011

I certainly dont have deep-seated issues involving birthdays.
I never really got the drug use metaphore because my understanding of drugs is that they don't generally tend to make the first move.

cant cook creole bream
Aug 15, 2011
I think Fahrenheit is better for weather

Motherfucker posted:

I never really got the drug use metaphore because my understanding of drugs is that they don't generally tend to make the first move.

Ever heard "the first hit is free?"

Watermelon Daiquiri
Jul 10, 2010
I TRIED TO BAIT THE TXPOL THREAD WITH THE WORLD'S WORST POSSIBLE TAKE AND ALL I GOT WAS THIS STUPID AVATAR.

cant cook creole bream posted:

Ever heard "the first hit is free?"

"The first hit is free!" as I forcibly hold you down and insert the needle of a syringe into your jugular while you scream and plead.

T-man
Aug 22, 2010


Talk shit, get bzzzt.

real lovely takes on drug use and it's socioeconomic causes and problems itt, disappointing.

cant cook creole bream
Aug 15, 2011
I think Fahrenheit is better for weather

Watermelon Daiquiri posted:

"The first hit is free!" as I forcibly hold you down and insert the needle of a syringe into your jugular while you scream and plead.

You are joking, but this is actually a thing which happens. But I don't feel comfortable discussing the intricacies of human trafficking in this thread.

T-man
Aug 22, 2010


Talk shit, get bzzzt.

Me, age 4, breathing in lungfuls of cigarette smoke, getting the first hit free: gee i hope someone named for a fruit drink never has bad takes on how drug use is a constant among families in poverty and a personal responsibility model hasn't killed millions in the time between now and when this fruit idiot shows up. that would be terrible.

Pththya-lyi
Nov 8, 2009

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2020

Wittgen posted:

Pretty sure "horde sees all, horde knows all" was one of the 95 theses.

We got to see the Sunday school students' macaroni art of sinners writhing in the cleansing fires of righteousness. Some of those kids are pretty talented!

Watermelon Daiquiri
Jul 10, 2010
I TRIED TO BAIT THE TXPOL THREAD WITH THE WORLD'S WORST POSSIBLE TAKE AND ALL I GOT WAS THIS STUPID AVATAR.

cant cook creole bream posted:

You are joking, but this is actually a thing which happens. But I don't feel comfortable discussing the intricacies of human trafficking in this thread.

oh I am well aware. But that wasn't what the whole argument was about.

T-man posted:

Me, age 4, breathing in lungfuls of cigarette smoke, getting the first hit free: gee i hope someone named for a fruit drink never has bad takes on how drug use is a constant among families in poverty and a personal responsibility model hasn't killed millions in the time between now and when this fruit idiot shows up. that would be terrible.

:rolleyes:

Voyager I
Jun 29, 2012

This is how your posting feels.
🐥🐥🐥🐥🐥

ConfusedUs posted:

I just finished season 1 after a friend highly recommended the show.

A few stray thoughts:

- My very first thought upon seeing Glimmer was "whoa, I've never seen a girl with that shape in a cartoon before" even though it's really common.
- Bow is hilarious. I about lost it when he ripped the midriff off his prom outfit.
- I absolutely love how inclusive this show is with regards to fashion; girls in poofy dresses, girls in armor, girls in tuxedos, girls in skintight off-the-pincer slinky dresses, plus Bow's bare stomach. Also there are hearts on the bottom of Bow's boots. ON THE BOTTOM! Dude knows how to stick with a theme.
- Catra is easily the best character on the show so far. She's clearly the show's second main character, which owns.
- All three of the main good guys (Adora, Glimmer, and Bow) are are kind of bland in comparison. Both Glimmer and Adora have issues they work through, but they're not explored nearly as deeply as Catra's.
- God drat, can you keep track of the loving sword between scenes? Please? I lost track of how many times I thought Adora left it behind only for it to magically be in her hand or on her back after leaving it on the ground somewhere.
- Scorpia and Entrapta are both awesome in completely different ways.
- I'm totally picking up romantic vibes between Catra (who is suppressing them) and Adora (who is oblivious), right?
- This show made me so gay I wrapped back around to straight.
- I want the action scenes to be so much more fluid than they are. I miss the choreography from Avatar.
- With all the care that's gone into showing the conflict between Catra and Adora as a multifaceted, layered set of overlapping issues, you'd think they could also manage a little subtlety into wrapping up the adventure of the week, but nope. Show has a REAL bad habit of just pulling out "the heroes win!" without making it feel earned.
- The "stuck in the First Ones temple" episode was the best of the season. More of that please.
- The prom episode was also great. Both of the villains had amazing outfits for the ball.

I'm gonna start season 2 tomorrow and will post some more stray thoughts when I have the time.

To get away from that godawful derail started by an obvious troll, I'd agree that the fight choreography and general animation quality are probably the weakest parts of the show, with probably the most egregious example being the episode where they meet Entrapta and represent swarms of bad guys as eyeballs glowing out of inexplicable shadows. It's definitely not Avatar, but the real heart of the show isn't the action scenes so it's a forgivable concession. The first few episodes when it leans into formulaic Princess Of The Week gigs to set up the characters is also kind of a drag and lacks the relationship development that makes the rest of the show so good, but it only ends up being a few of them and once they're done they don't do anything else like that.

Bow was probably my wife's favorite character, but despite her wishes I do not have the abs to pull off any of his outfits.

Motherfucker
Jul 16, 2011

I certainly dont have deep-seated issues involving birthdays.

T-man posted:

Me, age 4, breathing in lungfuls of cigarette smoke, getting the first hit free: gee i hope someone named for a fruit drink never has bad takes on how drug use is a constant among families in poverty and a personal responsibility model hasn't killed millions in the time between now and when this fruit idiot shows up. that would be terrible.

Hey.


Calm down.

Faustian Bargain
Apr 12, 2014


Just finished the series. Bring it back.

Watermelon Daiquiri
Jul 10, 2010
I TRIED TO BAIT THE TXPOL THREAD WITH THE WORLD'S WORST POSSIBLE TAKE AND ALL I GOT WAS THIS STUPID AVATAR.

Faustian Bargain posted:

Just finished the series. Bring it back.

Yeah. I'm willing to negotiate with you to make it happen, if that helps.

Pyrotoad
Oct 24, 2010


Illegal Hen
Yeah like I didn't rate it too highly the first two seasons aside from the odd standout episode but it really pulled everything together for the rest of the series and a 'She-Ra Shippuden' or movie would be very much appreciated. Like a reverse Voltron.

cybertier
May 2, 2013
Just give me a christmas special with Adora and Catra being a happy couple.

T-man
Aug 22, 2010


Talk shit, get bzzzt.

*increasingly loudly* movie MOvie MOVIe MOVIE MOVIE

Watermelon Daiquiri
Jul 10, 2010
I TRIED TO BAIT THE TXPOL THREAD WITH THE WORLD'S WORST POSSIBLE TAKE AND ALL I GOT WAS THIS STUPID AVATAR.

T-man posted:

*increasingly loudly* movie MOvie MOVIe MOVIE MOVIE

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."
<starts banging fists on desk>

MOVIE! MOVIE! MOVIE! MOVIE!

Watermelon Daiquiri
Jul 10, 2010
I TRIED TO BAIT THE TXPOL THREAD WITH THE WORLD'S WORST POSSIBLE TAKE AND ALL I GOT WAS THIS STUPID AVATAR.
6 seasons and a movie :(

Elephant Ambush
Nov 13, 2012
Nap Ghost

T-man posted:

*increasingly loudly* movie MOvie MOVIe MOVIE MOVIE

:hai:

ConfusedUs
Feb 24, 2004

Bees?
You want fucking bees?
Here you go!
ROLL INITIATIVE!!





Itís slow going over here, but I finished season 2! In fact Iím a few episodes into season 3 because I didnít realize we hit a finale whoops.

More stray thoughts.

Catraís voice actress is amazing. The scorn, the taunts, the mocking laugh, the hurt, the anger...sheís got some range.

Also I canít be the only one who loves the way she says ďHey AdoraĒ can I?

Swift Wing (wind?) is hilarious and under used.

Entrapta is my favorite princess by a country mile. Sheís deliberately written a bit autistic, right? I can just imagine some little kid with autistic tendencies watching her and being totally enraptured. (Please tell me if Iím using the wrong words here, Iím not deliberately being insensitive, but I donít have a lot of experience with folks with this particular set of traits)

Glimmer still annoys me, but less than before.

Holy poo poo Bow has two dads and they both own.

Holy poo poo he had to rip the midriff off to fight lol.

Holy poo poo this is a coming out episode isnít it? Even though he has two dads. Thatís good poo poo.

Entrapta and Hordak...are bonding? And Hordak has no game. I feel seen.

Iím glad weíve moved away from adventure of the week to a more serialized story.

God drat did Shadow Weaver do a number on Catra. And I kinda like this enemy of my enemy thing sheís setting up.

Portals? Please tell me we get some He Man characters in here. If Skeletor shows up Iím gonna die of happiness. (Actually donít tell me)

Glimmer...sigh. One episode sheís badass and competent in a fight. The next sheís blindly hurling sparkle balls. The next she is badass again. Then sparkle balls. Sigh.

Scorpia is way too nice for the horde. I love how they managed to make her both kind of dumb but also really competent when given direct tasks. Except when suddenly she doesnít know how to lead a crew despite being a force captain. She went through the orientation and everything, people.

Everything about the episode with Tongue Lashor was great. Everything.

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The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."

ConfusedUs posted:

Swift Wing (wind?)

Swift Wind.

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