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moths
Aug 25, 2004

I would also still appreciate some danger.



I love how nobody wants to tell Teela about it In the context of her meltdown over Prince Adam's secret. I'm pretty sure at least three other characters know.

"You all knew that my best friend was He-Man?! WTF! gently caress you all!"
"Teela, about the Sorceress-"
"No time for that!"

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The Last Call
Sep 9, 2011

Rehabilitating sinner

Panfilo posted:

There's a good message about being loyal to those who lift you up, not drag you down. I think Evil Lyn sees that even though Orko is sloppy with magic he has friends that have his back. Meanwhile Evil Lyn is very good with magic but Skeletor takes her for granted. Maybe she equated Orkos parents to her relationship with Skeletor and it reminded her of how much he might have held her back to be so desperate for approval.

I also dig Evil Lyn's white hair and the moments she takes the helmet off.

It's been a thing for some time, might go back to the original show but the 2002 definitely had it.




moths posted:

Sorceress is going to be revealed as Teela's mom, right? Is that what the mad babies thought was a lesbian moment?

She always is. That's been a thing since the original He-Man show. It's been retold several times, though in most cases Teela never finds out.

Android Blues
Nov 22, 2008

The Last Call posted:

It's been a thing for some time, might go back to the original show but the 2002 definitely had it.



Yeah, she had white hair under the helmet in '82 as well:

nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013

moths posted:

Sorceress is going to be revealed as Teela's mom, right? Is that what the mad babies thought was a lesbian moment?

People are misinterpreting Teela and Andraís close friendship and Teelaís burgeoning pride in Andraís development as an adventurer as a lesbian relationship. Which, to be fair, it is 100% coded as and can be read as such if you want to, but she also clearly has eyes for Adam as well, so she is probably most definitely bisexual at the very least.

lovely men (and some lovely women too, Iíve seen a few female reviewers getting weirdly cringey about it) are willfully misinterpreting things to fuel their anger when itís just a further extension of the already legendary queer subtext of the original show.

The Last Call
Sep 9, 2011

Rehabilitating sinner

Android Blues posted:

Yeah, she had white hair under the helmet in '82 as well:



I didn't remember ever seeing her hair in the original show so when I saw that online wasn't sure if it was edited or not to match the 2002 look.

Android Blues
Nov 22, 2008

The Last Call posted:

I didn't remember ever seeing her hair in the original show so when I saw that online wasn't sure if it was edited or not to match the 2002 look.

It's real! From this episode:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQs9t8XUm34

It's not exactly an all-timer (for my money, the She-Ra scripts have a better hitting average than the He-Man ones) but it does feature Teela and Evil-Lyn having to make an alliance of convenience, which is a beat that I'm pretty sure has cropped up over and over again in the series, and so it happening in the new show is as much another piece of deep fandom as anything else.

The Last Call
Sep 9, 2011

Rehabilitating sinner

Android Blues posted:

It's real! From this episode:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQs9t8XUm34

It's not exactly an all-timer (for my money, the She-Ra scripts have a better hitting average than the He-Man ones) but it does feature Teela and Evil-Lyn having to make an alliance of convenience, which is a beat that I'm pretty sure has cropped up over and over again in the series, and so it happening in the new show is as much another piece of deep fandom as anything else.

Thanks! I really wasn't sure so glad to have that cleared up.

She-Ra was very much the deeper and better written show, He-Man was more generic. She-Ra was a bit more than that. It's funny looking back on it I never thought of it as a girls show, to me it was animated so it was for everyone. That was my thoughts as a child, didn't hurt I knew others who watched both as well and not one ever said it was only for girls. That and as a kid I realized okay this is more serious than He-Man. Adora being part of the Horde to start off was way beyond what most cartoons did.

The Last Call fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Jul 27, 2021

Android Blues
Nov 22, 2008

The Last Call posted:

Thanks! I really wasn't sure so glad to have that cleared up.

She-Ra was very much the deeper and better written show, He-Man was more generic. She-Ra was a bit more than that. It's funny looking back on it I never thought of it as a girls show, to me it was animated so it was for everyone. That was my thoughts as a child, didn't hurt I knew others who watched both as well and not one ever heard it being said only for girls. That and as a kid I realized okay this is more serious than He-Man. Adora being part of the Horde to start off was way beyond what most cartoons did.

Yeah, She-Ra's extremely campy still, but its plots tend to be better paced and you're right, the stakes are way higher. The Horde are in control, the rebels are on the back foot and would be wiped out if the Horde ever learned the location of their hideout, so even though it's still very sugary and silly and She-Ra routinely wipes the floor with Hordak and his goons, the plots where the Horde has a new super-weapon or whatever feel a bit more urgent and coherent than Skeletor devising a plan to turn King Randor into a frog.

Side by side, She-Ra's art and animation are also significantly better, which I'd guess is just down to the fact that after a few years of doing He-Man, the studio had more practise under its belt.

Larryb
Oct 5, 2010

I personally thought SPoP did a few things better than its predecessor in terms of plot and characters (2018 Entrapta is the goddamn best) but yeah as far as the 80ís shows go She-Ra still feels like the superior one of the two. Less annoying sidekicks as well if I remember right.

I forget, was Adora as much of a dork back in the 80ís as she was in the 2018 show?

Larryb fucked around with this message at 21:33 on Jul 27, 2021

Android Blues
Nov 22, 2008

Larryb posted:

I personally thought SPoP did a few things better than its predecessor in terms of plot and characters (2018 Entrapta is the goddamn best) but yeah as far as the 80ís shows go She-Ra still feels like the superior one of the two. Less annoying sidekicks as well if I remember right.

I forget, was Adora as much of a dork back in the 80ís as she was in the 2018 show?

Oh, I think on almost any objective quality metric, SPoP's definitely better, but original She-Ra has its own charm.

Original Adora was a pretty straight-up heroic type - she reminds me mostly of a Silver Age superhero, where she's meant to be a role model to kids so she's always patient, composed and virtuous to a fault. Prince Adam in original He-Man actually is sort of a dweeb, as a feint to keep people from suspecting his secret.

The Last Call
Sep 9, 2011

Rehabilitating sinner

Android Blues posted:

Yeah, She-Ra's extremely campy still, but its plots tend to be better paced and you're right, the stakes are way higher. The Horde are in control, the rebels are on the back foot and would be wiped out if the Horde ever learned the location of their hideout, so even though it's still very sugary and silly and She-Ra routinely wipes the floor with Hordak and his goons, the plots where the Horde has a new super-weapon or whatever feel a bit more urgent and coherent than Skeletor devising a plan to turn King Randor into a frog.

Side by side, She-Ra's art and animation are also significantly better, which I'd guess is just down to the fact that after a few years of doing He-Man, the studio had more practise under its belt.

That's pretty much the case yes. The show was still silly and goofy at parts because you couldn't go all grim dark otherwise the censors would cry bloody murder but you quickly realized how oppressed the people of the world were. Hordak was a threat, not the goofy bad guy Skeletor was 90% of the time. The animation was definitely superior than the He-Man show, it felt like it could have been a whole different studio due to the quality.

Larryb posted:

I personally thought SPoP did a few things better than its predecessor in terms of plot and characters (2018 Entrapta is the goddamn best) but yeah as far as the 80ís shows go She-Ra still feels like the superior one of the two. Less annoying sidekicks as well if I remember right.

I forget, was Adora as much of a dork back in the 80ís as she was in the 2018 show?

Not really. Adora was very much a more mature serious person in the original show. All the characters were. Not to say they didn't have fun but the tone between the original and 2018 is quite different.

Larryb
Oct 5, 2010

In fact, I think the only character where I actually kind of prefer their 80ís counterpart over the original is Madame Razz (in terms of design at least).

Speaking of, Iím hoping the upcoming CG He-Man series includes some She-Ra content as well. Some SPoP references (or at least a few returning actors) would be cool too but weíll see about that.

The Last Call
Sep 9, 2011

Rehabilitating sinner
Yeah Madame Razz was the closet to how she was though not as confused in the original show nor time jumping either.

It's possible to have She-Ra and the Horde to show up but it depends on certain factors as both properties are owned by different companies. It has happened since the original shows, again the He-Man comics some of us were talking about does have Adora and the Horde show up and unlike the cartoon the comic was not held back by anything. If you want to see how Adora would be if raised by the Horde with no restraints check that out. Hell the horde overall are deadly and processes people, the Fright Zone itself lives up to it's name and is ever expanding. Hordak is far beyond the snorting villain he once was. He eats souls.

In the 2002 series Hordak was around and if there had been a third season it would have him fully show up with the Horde which you know means Adora. Sadly it got axed before that.

Larryb
Oct 5, 2010

Ah right, whatís the deal with He-Man and She-Ra being owned by separate companies despite still taking place in the same universe anyway?

The Last Call
Sep 9, 2011

Rehabilitating sinner
I'm not entirely sure and I could be wrong but the rights to He-Man is with Mattel while She-Ra was technically with Filmation which later got bought by others. That means an agreement has to be reached to have the two cross over now. Again I could be wrong on this.

It was only in 2014 a court case sided with Mattel owning He-Man, one of the original writers said he had some of the rights.

BIG HEADLINE
Jun 13, 2006

"Stand back, Ottawan ruffian, or face my lumens!"
It also just recently occurred to me that perhaps a reason the howling masses are making GBS threads on the show (other than their He-Man show having so many ~FEMALES~ in it) is that the also-ran B-side villains are literally a bunch of cowardly tech-bros who literally drink Kool-Aid.

I'll take any excuse to point and laugh at Kevin Smith, but this wasn't one of them.

The Last Call
Sep 9, 2011

Rehabilitating sinner

BIG HEADLINE posted:

It also just recently occurred to me that perhaps a reason the howling masses are making GBS threads on the show (other than their He-Man show having so many ~FEMALES~ in it) is that the also-ran B-side villains are literally a bunch of cowardly tech-bros who literally drink Kool-Aid.

I'll take any excuse to point and laugh at Kevin Smith, but this wasn't one of them.

It's partly the times we are in as well. There are certain conservative sites/youtube screamist etc that will flip poo poo at anything for clicks because outrage gets views. They play to their audience while getting more eyeballs on what they say.

BIG HEADLINE
Jun 13, 2006

"Stand back, Ottawan ruffian, or face my lumens!"
I also kind of like that this universe actually has *consequences*. I kinda want to see a new G.I.Joe cartoon where people can actually die.

nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013

BIG HEADLINE posted:

I also kind of like that this universe actually has *consequences*. I kinda want to see a new G.I.Joe cartoon where people can actually die.

Eh, more like consequences*, because of the three people we've seen die so far, none of them actually died. Adam just went on a 2-year death vacation, Skeletor was sealed up inside his own staff, and Orko is... out there somewhere and will be back fairly soon from the sound of it.

nine-gear crow fucked around with this message at 03:41 on Jul 28, 2021

tsob
Sep 26, 2006

Chalalala~

nine-gear crow posted:

Eh, more like consequences*, because of the three people we've seen die so far, none of them actually died.

You're forgetting one: Moss-Man.

Mikl
Nov 8, 2009

Vote shit sandwich or the shit sandwich gets it!
Finished watching the new MOTU yesterday.

:10bux: say the world will be saved because of Lyn turning against Skeletor at a critical moment.

I mean seriously there's a whole lot of setup in that direction. Lyn and Teela and the others actually bonded over their trip, and Lyn had zero intention of betraying them -- she was shocked when Skeletor popped up unexpectedly. Also, her character development distinctly points towards "I've been doing stuff for other people (Skeletor) all my life, I should really start worrying about myself." She sided with Skeletor at the end because she was put on the spot and instinctively reverted to her old ways, but I'll be surprised if she's still a villain at the end of the show.

nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013

tsob posted:

You're forgetting one: Moss-Man.

Oh right. Well even that oneís less like Moss-Man is dead and more like heís enjoying retirement in Preternia after being horrifically immolated by Skeletor.

Larryb
Oct 5, 2010

According to this excerpt from an interview with the president of Mattel it seems we could be seeing the CGI series as early as this fall:

https://www.he-man.org/forums/board...l=1#post3945048

10 Beers
May 21, 2005

Shit! I didn't bring a knife.

He-man came out when I was 5 and it was one of my favorites. I just finished episode five and I really enjoyed it. I feel like it really captured the fun and cheesiness of the original, and I'm totally here for it. I'm watching the aftershow on Netflix with the cast and it's fun, too.

Gaz-L
Jan 28, 2009

Larryb posted:

Which is weird because that read way more like ďIím your momĒ to me.

That may also be Smith overestimating how many people know/recall that specific plot point

Panfilo
Aug 27, 2011

EXISTENCE IS PAIN😬

BIG HEADLINE posted:

It also just recently occurred to me that perhaps a reason the howling masses are making GBS threads on the show (other than their He-Man show having so many ~FEMALES~ in it) is that the also-ran B-side villains are literally a bunch of cowardly tech-bros who literally drink Kool-Aid.

I'll take any excuse to point and laugh at Kevin Smith, but this wasn't one of them.
One thing some of them complained about, is this stereotype in what they think is feminist-wokist media that any and all male characters have to be incompetent and bad.

tsob
Sep 26, 2006

Chalalala~

Gaz-L posted:

That may also be Smith overestimating how many people know/recall that specific plot point

He talked about it as if it was some minor easter egg that was barely known and has never been followed up, where apparently it was a thing in multiple other iterations of the franchise like the 2002 reboot, so if anything I think he's underestimating how well known it is, and just didn't intend people to have the full picture until later regardless of whether they knew or not.

moths
Aug 25, 2004

I would also still appreciate some danger.



Panfilo posted:

One thing some of them complained about, is this stereotype in what they think is feminist-wokist media that any and all male characters have to be incompetent and bad.

I was thinking of that during the sequence where Man At Arms does everything right and is a badass after defying Teela.

They're complaining about an imaginary version of the show.

thrawn527
Mar 27, 2004

Thrawn/Pellaeon
Studying the art of terrorists
To keep you safe

Gaz-L posted:

That may also be Smith overestimating how many people know/recall that specific plot point

I didn't remember that plot point at all, and at that moment I still said, "Oh, so she's Teela's mom?"

Anyway, show ruled, can't wait for more.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

Mikl posted:

Finished watching the new MOTU yesterday.

:10bux: say the world will be saved because of Lyn turning against Skeletor at a critical moment.

I mean seriously there's a whole lot of setup in that direction. Lyn and Teela and the others actually bonded over their trip, and Lyn had zero intention of betraying them -- she was shocked when Skeletor popped up unexpectedly. Also, her character development distinctly points towards "I've been doing stuff for other people (Skeletor) all my life, I should really start worrying about myself." She sided with Skeletor at the end because she was put on the spot and instinctively reverted to her old ways, but I'll be surprised if she's still a villain at the end of the show.


Yeah I'm expecting that character to forget her own talk and try to work with Skeletor as an equal or/and have some ambitious machination of her own that Skeletor doesn't want to hear about causing her to leave or and be working against him while still posing as his ally. Orko will definitely of course be involved in her leaving him for good somehow.


thrawn527 posted:

I didn't remember that plot point at all, and at that moment I still said, "Oh, so she's Teela's mom?"

Anyway, show ruled, can't wait for more.

Same here, just as soon as that interaction happened we were both like "when will they have Teela realize she's the the Sorceress' daughter"

tsob
Sep 26, 2006

Chalalala~

moths posted:

I was thinking of that during the sequence where Man At Arms does everything right and is a badass after defying Teela.

They're complaining about an imaginary version of the show.

I mean, that scene is worth complaining about, because there's really no reason those people should have needed rescue from that situation by someone else. If Man-at-Arms hadn't shown up they probably could have gotten out of by themselves quite easily, but the show wanted to treat it like they were in a tense situation with no way out and it just didn't feel that way even given the competence the show had already established about them. There's really no reason he should have shown up, especially when he immediately leaves anyway. It just feels weird and superfluous to have him there.

BIG HEADLINE
Jun 13, 2006

"Stand back, Ottawan ruffian, or face my lumens!"

Mikl posted:

Finished watching the new MOTU yesterday.

:10bux: say the world will be saved because of Lyn turning against Skeletor at a critical moment.

I mean seriously there's a whole lot of setup in that direction. Lyn and Teela and the others actually bonded over their trip, and Lyn had zero intention of betraying them -- she was shocked when Skeletor popped up unexpectedly. Also, her character development distinctly points towards "I've been doing stuff for other people (Skeletor) all my life, I should really start worrying about myself." She sided with Skeletor at the end because she was put on the spot and instinctively reverted to her old ways, but I'll be surprised if she's still a villain at the end of the show.


I kinda want Lyn to end up as an anti-hero. I mean, one thing I always wanted to have happen in the Potterverse was for a cadre of "evil" wizards to aid the "good" ones out of a desire to be rid of their version of Skeletor - a scary but otherwise incompetent alpha bad guy who held them all back because he was fixated on getting revenge on a baby.

There's always going to be "evil" (subjectively speaking) in the world, and Lyn's always going to be a femme fatale. I just want her to be more "Poison Ivy" and way less pre-split "Harley Quinn."


Panfilo posted:

One thing some of them complained about, is this stereotype in what they think is feminist-wokist media that any and all male characters have to be incompetent and bad.

Which proves they never watched the original show, because pretty much every loving episode was "evil plots, good is dumb and naive, evil temporarily prevails, then He-Man trips over his dick and somehow saves the day."

One of the best lines in this one was Teela kinda-sorta fourth-walling about how He-Man might be the Most Powerful Man in the Universe but he's still got a teenager's mentality.

BIG HEADLINE fucked around with this message at 15:29 on Jul 28, 2021

moths
Aug 25, 2004

I would also still appreciate some danger.



tsob posted:

I mean, that scene is worth complaining about, because there's really no reason those people should have needed rescue from that situation by someone else.

It served to show that they weren't totally ready for the challenges ahead. As their first encounter, it established that things might be more dangerous for this super-group of MotU all-stars. It effectively raised the stakes for the next scene imo.

But my point is that the manchild complaints were about some unaired/ reverse version of the show where Teela shows up and saves Man At Arms because he's a dumb fumbling man. in the name of girl power.

tsob
Sep 26, 2006

Chalalala~
Oh I get what you were saying, I just think that scene is worth complaining about regardless and I didn't feel like it raised the stakes because after what we'd seen Andra, Teela and Evilyn do already I didn't feel like there was any reason they were in danger and Man-at-Arms saving them just seemed really out of place. As did his brief interaction with Teela. Not because there was anything wrong with it in and of itself; just because it didn't seem to add anything previous scenes hadn't already established, or couldn't have just been put in those earlier scenes even if you thought there was something missing that that scene added.

moths
Aug 25, 2004

I would also still appreciate some danger.



It's still better than if he'd actually gone to babysit the Sorceress because she's old and a woman.

Larryb
Oct 5, 2010

On another note, if the reboot is coming out as soon as the interview I posted suggests Iíd be shocked if we donít get a trailer (or at least a cast list) within in the next month or so.

From what I understand itís basically going to be the He-Man equivalent of SPoP (complete with redesigned characters, some of whom may likely have different personalities as well) so expect another flood of impotent bitching from the usual suspects.

tsob
Sep 26, 2006

Chalalala~

moths posted:

It's still better than if he'd actually gone to babysit the Sorceress because she's old and a woman.

I wouldn't call having one other person there to help hold off a literal army "babysitting".

moths
Aug 25, 2004

I would also still appreciate some danger.



tsob posted:

I wouldn't call having one other person there to help hold off a literal army "babysitting".

This was after that scene, when literally nobody was attacking her castle because there was nothing there to steal and no armies left.

It was "oh what if the guy we just defeated uh wants to go check if there's anything left in Sorceress's basement."

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!

Arc Light posted:

lmao

"You really loving think Mattel Television, who hired me and paid me money, wants to do a loving 'Masters of the Universe' show without He-Man? Grow the gently caress up, man."
-Kevin Smith
Did he actually tweet this poo poo out explicitly, too? Because I'm wondering about all those tears that showed up on my Youtube feed about loving He-Man, and they keep coming. Main reason I'm perusing this thread to begin with. Is the peanut gallery ignoring specific context again?

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Azubah
Jun 5, 2007

Wasn't Lyn a clone of Teela or the Sorceress? Originally I mean.

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