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Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!



Fun Shoe

The_Doctor posted:

It's probably the loudest horror I've ever seen. When the roommate was going on about the number of footsteps and whatnot, and Suzy clearly just wanted to be left alone to sleep, I was totally in Suzy's camp.

It's great how the sound design even makes her initial walk through the airport terminal scary. The sound of the sliding door opening and closing is very jarring.

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EL BROMANCE
Jun 10, 2006

COWABUNGA DUDES!



The_Doctor posted:

It's probably the loudest horror I've ever seen.

Having a good setup really elevates some movies, like I absolutely blasted Suspiria and Berberian Sound Studio and it added so much. I'm so glad I didn't watch Suspiria back on a 3rd generated dubbed VHS back in the day... it's too pretty to be washed away in a sea of red chroma bleed on a bedroom TV.

FreudianSlippers
Apr 12, 2010

Shooting and Fucking
are the same thing!



First time I saw Suspiria was in a theater during a film festival where Argento was the guest of honour.

They also screened Inferno 💀 and Dracula 3D 💩

Hollismason
Jun 30, 2007

"Real life is messy, inconsistent, and it's seldom when anything ever really gets resolved."



Goddamn Return of the Living Dead is so good. So many great quotes.

Iron Crowned
May 6, 2003


Hollismason posted:

Goddamn Return of the Living Dead is so good. So many great quotes.

Love that movie, it and Near Dark were recommended to me by the brother of the drummer for Queensryche

Spatulater bro!
Aug 19, 2003

Punch! Punch! Punch!



You people and all your celebrity connections. My only significant celebrity encounter was pissing off John Goodman at his house in New Orleans. We rang the doorbell at his gate (having been told by Google where his house was), and the man himself came out and yelled at me.

Drunkboxer
Jun 30, 2007


Spatulater bro! posted:

You people and all your celebrity connections. My only significant celebrity encounter was pissing off John Goodman at his house in New Orleans. We rang the doorbell at his gate (having been told by Google where his house was), and the man himself came out and yelled at me.

Did he use that bellowing scary John Goodman voice? What era of Goodman we talking? Fat ní classic, pre-sobriety Goodman or deflated older/wiser Goodman?

Hollismason
Jun 30, 2007

"Real life is messy, inconsistent, and it's seldom when anything ever really gets resolved."



Spatulater bro! posted:

You people and all your celebrity connections. My only significant celebrity encounter was pissing off John Goodman at his house in New Orleans. We rang the doorbell at his gate (having been told by Google where his house was), and the man himself came out and yelled at me.

Lol you got yelled at by John Goodman. The gooniest celebrity encounter.

Iron Crowned
May 6, 2003


His name was Todd, and whenever he wasn't touring as the drum tech, he was working at the record store my friend worked at. I spent many a Friday night there poking at CDs and DVDs while bullshitting with my friend, and hearing all kinds of cool stories from the road.

I kinda miss the carefree post-high school days, when the most I had to worry about was getting up in time to work in the warehouse, or making sure my other friend didn't bleed to death in a storm drain.

Retro Futurist
Aug 8, 2007

Yesterday's Tomorrow,
Today!




I just watched Oh Brother, Whereart Thou and 10 Cloverfield Lane last night so the thought of getting yelled at by John Goodman is way 2spooky for me

Spatulater bro!
Aug 19, 2003

Punch! Punch! Punch!



Drunkboxer posted:

Did he use that bellowing scary John Goodman voice? What era of Goodman we talking? Fat ní classic, pre-sobriety Goodman or deflated older/wiser Goodman?

It was 2013, so sorta in between? He walked out of his door in a t shirt and shorts and marched down the walkway toward the gate, staring me down with some intense disdain. Not the jolly fella I was expecting. It was my wife and me on our honeymoon. She saw him and bolted, but I stayed. I was absolutely caught off guard and all I could think to do was to pretend I rang the bell so I could give him back a tennis ball that was sitting next to the gate. He gave me a sarcastic "thank you very much", and I handed him the ball and I said "I'm sorry, this is probably really annoying isn't it?" He said, "yeah, it really is. This is my house, it's not a zoo." Then he turned and walked away.

FreudianSlippers
Apr 12, 2010

Shooting and Fucking
are the same thing!



I'm basically film business royalty.


My dad worked as the security guard for Enemy Mine in 1984. They were filming in the Westman Islands south of Iceland and figured that since they were on a small island where the only way to the mainland is a four hour ferry ride they could just leave their equipment on set in unlocked sheds. They were wrong and some islanders helped themselves to it. So the production hired some fishermen (my dad and a few others) with free time to sit around and watch it after they wrapped each day.

Then all the footage shot in Iceland was scrapped and production was started with a blank slate.



FreudianSlippers
Apr 12, 2010

Shooting and Fucking
are the same thing!



I've also made Dario Argento, David Cronenberg, David Lynch, Milos Forman, Bruce LaBruce, Jim Jarmusch, and Noam Chomsky sign my prosthetic leg.

Origami Dali
Jan 7, 2005

Get ready to fuck!
You fucker's fucker!
You fucker!


From the movies, I've only ever met John Saxon. He was cool. I've met a ton of mostly late 90's/early 2000's rockers though, for better and worse.

Hollismason
Jun 30, 2007

"Real life is messy, inconsistent, and it's seldom when anything ever really gets resolved."



FreudianSlippers posted:

I've also made Dario Argento, David Cronenberg, David Lynch, Milos Forman, Bruce LaBruce, Jim Jarmusch, and Noam Chomsky sign my prosthetic leg.

uh pics?

Drunkboxer
Jun 30, 2007


FreudianSlippers
Apr 12, 2010

Shooting and Fucking
are the same thing!



Should've said "legs". Plural. Some have many autographs some only one or two.

One of whom (the one with Lynch, Forman, and Jarmusch) was sadly lost.

Origami Dali
Jan 7, 2005

Get ready to fuck!
You fucker's fucker!
You fucker!


I'd like to imagine this all happened at once because all those dudes were hanging out together.

WeaponX
Jul 28, 2008




Hollismason posted:

Goddamn Return of the Living Dead is so good. So many great quotes.

Itís the perfect horror-comedy tone. Like James Karen and Thom Matthews are hilarious running around doing slapstick with a guy painted yellow and then absolutely tragic later as they get more and more horrifically sick. ďSend more copsĒ is really silly and funny and then you get Tar-Man haunting my nightmares.

Itís the perfect balance of legitimately funny, goofy and satirical while still being cruel, scary, and cynical. So good!

FreudianSlippers
Apr 12, 2010

Shooting and Fucking
are the same thing!



Cronenberg

Chomsky

Argento

FreudianSlippers fucked around with this message at 20:17 on May 5, 2021

Hollismason
Jun 30, 2007

"Real life is messy, inconsistent, and it's seldom when anything ever really gets resolved."



WeaponX posted:

It’s the perfect horror-comedy tone. Like James Karen and Thom Matthews are hilarious running around doing slapstick with a guy painted yellow and then absolutely tragic later as they get more and more horrifically sick. “Send more cops” is really silly and funny and then you get Tar-Man haunting my nightmares.

It’s the perfect balance of legitimately funny, goofy and satirical while still being cruel, scary, and cynical. So good!

Also all the practical effects.

Flavius Aetass
Mar 30, 2011


FreudianSlippers posted:

Cronenberg

Chomsky

Argento


drat, take a bath!

WeaponX
Jul 28, 2008




Hollismason posted:

Also all the practical effects.

And the greatest title music ever

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013

If it wasn't for disappointment
I wouldn't have any appointment



Grimey Drawer

WeaponX posted:

And the greatest title music ever

Close, but this one has yet to be beat

FreudianSlippers
Apr 12, 2010

Shooting and Fucking
are the same thing!



Flavius Aetass posted:

drat, take a bath!

NEVER

Hollismason
Jun 30, 2007

"Real life is messy, inconsistent, and it's seldom when anything ever really gets resolved."



I guess I may as well watch Return of the Living Dead 2 although it doesn't reach the heights of Return of the Living Dead.

No. 1 Juicy Boi
Jun 1, 2003

#1 JUICY BOY



Buglord


Yeah I love that theme and I love how Justice remixed it in this song

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoZ8l40RpeE

King Vidiot
Feb 17, 2007

The video arcade made me what I am today!



Hollismason posted:

I guess I may as well watch Return of the Living Dead 2 although it doesn't reach the heights of Return of the Living Dead.

I'd say that's an understatement. RotLD 2 suuuucks.

Part 3 I remember being really good though. I mean it's a Brian Yuzna movie so it can't be too bad.

Timeless Appeal
May 28, 2006


King Vidiot posted:

I'd say that's an understatement. RotLD 2 suuuucks.

Part 3 I remember being really good though. I mean it's a Brian Yuzna movie so it can't be too bad.
It starts fun, the middle is actively bad and kinda racist, but the ending with the weaponized zombies is really, really good.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.



ROTLD 3 has a good idea and a strong lead performance. And its Yuzna so its got impressive memorable gore. But its also Yuzna so its kind of sloppy storywise and has weird racist and edgy stuff.

Its certainly more notable and worth watching than any of the other ROTLD sequels.

Hollismason
Jun 30, 2007

"Real life is messy, inconsistent, and it's seldom when anything ever really gets resolved."



I didn't find ROTLD 2 unbearably bad because it has some nice zombie effects.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.



I don't think its unwatcheable or anything. But its the same thing done worse. 3 is different and better, if very flawed.

4 and 5...

Debbie Does Dagon
Jul 8, 2005





Hollismason posted:

I guess I may as well watch Return of the Living Dead 2 although it doesn't reach the heights of Return of the Living Dead.

I enjoyed 2 a lot more than I thought I would, it's basically a less competent retread, but it's fun enough. Three is excellent though, and I advise everyone to watch it and then read Fran's effort post from the last Bracketology thread.

Franchescanado posted:

Thoughts, As They Come And Go, About Return of the Living Dead 3

Return of the Living Dead, as a series, suffers under the weight of it's tonal whiplash. As evidenced in the last Tournament with Evil Dead's win, there is a sweet spot with how sequels can tonally evolve while staying true to what the series is. The original is a bona fide zombie classic, with slimy energetic zombies, a horror comedy where the humor is naturally with the characters in the situation, a portrait of Punk culture that is at once an exaggeration and a sincere love-letter, and a distrust with Reagan-era government and military.

The sequel tries to maintain these ideas, but instead loses itself in the process. Having cast members return is a wonderful idea, but not when the characters they return as are boring. Trying to follow the original with a new aspect is nice, but not when it misses out having it's own identity.

Return of the Living Dead 3 is, in many ways, a wonderful sequel. It maintains most of what made the original great, except it misses out on the sense of humor, and fumbles the most obvious character arc to the film.

The secret to Return of the Living Dead 3 is that it's a 1950's teen horror film made in the 1990's. There is more in common with I Was A Teenage Werewolf, I Accuse My Parents and Teenagers From Outer Space than there is The Night of the Living Dead (edit: 1990's remake, for clarity) . This film is secretly a remake of The Brain That Wouldn't Die. Many of the weird shortcomings of the film, like the character decisions, make more sense when you realize that it's the death rattles of the Cold War Era of America, and not Post-Cold War.

Let's look at the three main shortcomings of the film, which can be attributed to the arcs of the three characters with the most screen-time.

Curt

Our protagonist; our audience lens into the story. His father is in charge of a secret government project that weaponizes the dead. His mother's death is recent enough to still be an open wound for him and his father. Curt and his father have moved "dozens of times in the past few years", mainly due to his father's career and the zombie project.

Curt's only real solid relationship is with Julie. Julie is the complete anti-thesis of what Curt's father wants from his son. She is radical, she is vulgar, she is dangerous; she inspires Curt's dangerous tendencies, promotes him as an artist, and has taken away his sexual innocence. The biggest question we have for Curt is the sincerity of Curt's affection towards Julie. She is objectively attractive, but she is objectively an inspiration for destructive tendencies. Is Julie a convenient salve for Curt's insecurities and pain? Is she fulfilling an Oedipal role for Curt, providing a female affection and care towards him that he no longer has with his mother? Is she providing an escape from Curt's father, whom Curt dejects, seemingly blaming his father for his mother's death? The father, obsessed with his task of bringing back the dead to use against threats against the country, has abandoned his son.

Curt's wants to save Julie from death because he could not save his mother. He steals his father's technology to use it against The Establishment, both the literal Government and the literal Laws of Nature. It is teenage-defiance, through-and-through. This may be frustrating to an adult audience, past the age of pubescent rage, but it still rings as a sincere portrait of the pains of a teenager, which are not always logical, which are usually emotional.

Curt is weirdly hodge-podge of two tragic Greek figures: Orpheus and Prometheus.

Curt as Orpheus: Curt is a musician; he plays the drums. His marriage to Eurydice ends with her being killed via snakebite. In his grief, he ventures to the land of the dead. He charms the ferryman Charon (and in the myth, but not the film, Cerebrus) who guards the River Styx. His music and grief convince Hades to take Eurydice back to the world of the living, as long as they both refuse to look back at the land of the dead. However, upon seeing the light of the sun, Orpheus looks back in delight, only to see Eurydice disappear.

Curt as Prometheus: Prometheus, a trickster, has an antagonistic relationship with Zeus. There are two legends attributed by the poet Hesiod with Prometheus and Zeus. In both, Prometheus steals fire, a symbol of life and vitality, in an act of defiance to give to mankind. In one legend, Zeus creates Pandora, who ultimately takes the lid off of a jar she carries, bringing into the world evil and disease to plague humanity. In another, Zeus has Prometheus nailed to a mountain, where an eagle eats his liver, which constantly regrows.

It's important to mention both of these figures, because while Curt seems to embody aspects of both figures, he inadvertently, as a character, fails to fulfill either of them. This is, to me, the clearest example of why Curt is a frustrating character; while everything I have written makes sense and is thematically relevant to the overall film, it lacks a cohesiveness. Curt, as the framing character, as the lens for the audience's entrance to the story, lacks a center of identity. Because he is so conflicted with himself, the foundation for us, the audience, is shaky.

The real reason behind this is because, while he is the character with which we encounter the story, Curt isn't the main character. Julie is.


Julie

The heart of the story is Julie, who is both victim and villain to the entire film.

Julie's ambiguity adds aspects to the story, and is distracting in other aspects. I watched this film with a friend of mine, and we both came to opposite conclusions at the heart of Julie's backstory: I assumed Julie was poor, my friend assumed Julie was rich. While neither of these affects the major aspect of Julie's themes, it's an interesting detail to have undefined. Julie mentions that she can leave home without her mother noticing. Examining class adds implications to this moment, and Julie's character as a whole.

If Julie is lower-class and "poor", her dating Curt, who's life for better or worse comes with the financial stability the comes with having a career-military parent, is "dating up". Her mother wouldn't notice her missing with a week? Is her mother an addict? Is her mother, like Tina's mother in A Nightmare On Elm Street, emotionally unavailable to her daughter do to personal pursuits with unhealthy relationships? This is the era of gutterpunks; homeless punks who left the family for multitudes of reasons, many of which were toxic. Is Curt Julie's ticket to a better life?

If Julie is middle- or upper-class and "rich", is her life built around affluenza? Is her Punkdom a rebellion from a well-to-do cookie-cutter lifestyle? Can she leave for a week without being noticed because she has enough money and her mother is distracted?

Things like Julie's interest in Nazi symbolism are painted multiple ways with this context. One of the most tragic moments in the documentary The Decline of Western Civilization (Part 1) is when Punk bigotry is examined. "Are you a nazi?", "Are you racist?", "Why do you use bigoted language when you yourself are perceived as suffering prejudice?" Some of them reply, in not so many words, that the counter-culture lifestyle of Punk and the interest in being shocking and offensive is part the Punk ideology, and so that includes bigotry. Some have never actually considered it, and sheepishly laugh off the bigotry as not "real". Some are genuinely just racist kids that were taught racism. Others see it as an act of survival, that a kill-or-be-killed attitude with regards to race or sexuality as just another weapon to survive a society.

Even though Julie is more defined as a character, she is only ever shown in relation to Curt. It's a satire of the Manic Pixie Girl; Julie is not a quirky savior, she is the destruction. This is my one big fix for the film: I want a scene with Julie and without Curt before the accident. While I think Julie is ultimately a cohesive character both in theme and personal arc, and while I think the ambiguities mentioned above add to the film's intrigue, I would like to see Julie as Julie, even if only for a minute.

Julie is one of the earliest examples I have in my cinematic vocabulary of the self-destructive girl. While I don't think Julie is a statement about womanhood in general (that would be a ridiculous request), I think she is a portrait of a specific type of teenage woman that I am all too familiar with. Julie is scary. Not because she is a zombie, but because she embraces self-destruction. She may inspire Curt to be a musician, and to be who he wants to be, she also recommends he runs away from home, and playfully risks their lives on the motorcycle, which leads to her accidental death. The three biggest aspects to Julie once she becomes a zombie, which are universal for so many normal teenage girls, is a suicidal acceptance of death, self-mutilation to have control of her body and sensations (to have control over the pain she feels rather than it being inflicted on her by the world), and an eating disorder personified by her zombie appetite. Julie would be happier dead than alive. She no longer has a grip on her identity once Curt brings her back to life. It is being forced into this role, this in-between state of life and death, that brings her the most suffering. The eating disorder, the self-harm, and the suicidal mentality bring suffering to her, to Curt, and to everyone around her. It's ultimately what destroys the world.

Curt becomes most defined when he is forced to acknowledge the toxic relationship he and Julie have built for themselves and each other. It is, ultimately (in this specific story; it's important not to generalize when exploring the themes of mental health issues) Curt's fault that Julie suffers these ailments. He cannot support her; he is scared of her. Julie seems incurable; there is no one cure for her problems. Their relationship, tragically toxic, partially from youth, partially from selfish pushes from their partner, partially from bad luck, and partially from the outward world attacking them, is doomed. The melodrama of their doomed love is right out of a 1950's doo wop song. This all-too-real look at teenagers getting hosed up by their immature, toxic, but powerful need for each other, is the bitter dark undercurrent that dries up any chances of humor that the original film had. It may not be as fun, but it's a very sincere turn for Yuzna. He seems to appreciate poor Curt and Julie, and does find a beauty in the tragedy of the finale, where they clutch each other as they face their doom.


Riverman

Our ferryman Charon. Weirdly enough, the third character that has the most influence on the actions of the characters doesn't have a name, is destitute, and is mentally disturbed. He is ultimately a product of plot. He is not a character. He is a Jiminy Crickett for Curt, a magical black man, a deus ex machina, a black sacrifice for the white characters.

While there isn't too much to say about Riverman, what is there causes some head scratches. He is the only character empathetic to Curt and Julie, and only ever tries to help them. He is not a snitch, he has allegiance, even when it means danger to himself. He repeatedly helps Curt. He even tells Curt he could be a musician. It's almost a paternal bond. He is ultimately eaten by and turned into a zombie by Julie, who we mentioned earlier does have hints with Nazism. He is then experimented on and turned into a weapon by the military, which weirdly feels like a comment on how black people have been victims of secret military and medical experiments throughout America's modern history.

Nonetheless, there is a clear line of a kind, innocent man, who only does the nice thing, being turned into a monster by the government. He gets his revenge on all of the military personnel that corrupts him, and he brings about a zombie apocalypse. All of this would be much more interesting and tasteful if he weren't such a 3rd act character who is convenient to the plot, and more fully defined. While Curt and Julie are the main characters, Riverman still is a foil to their plot, even if it's an underbaked one.


Conclusions

I do love this film. I think it succeeds despite it's flaws. Some have said it's Yuzna's worst, which I think is an undefined remark. Worse how? In many ways, it has more themes that speak to a place and time and towards parts of American culture than many other films. Bride of Re-animator is a more fun movie, but I don't think Return of the Living Dead 3 was supposed to be fun. I think it was Yuzna really trying to say something in all it's tragedy and ugliness. Curt may be a conflicted character due to the writing, but I have met the military brat that wrecks his life over immaturity and selfishness, and it is tragic. I have met the girl that cuts herself because the rush of the pain and seeing the blood is a better feeling than her thoughts of suicide. I have known the kids who feel empty and alone because they are missing the human connection they need, and fight to find it in a partner who isn't good for them. That is the core of the film, and even unkind or reluctant reviews in this thread show a consistency in that reading.

Yuzna using the zombie plot to illustrate the horrors of a woman suffering and self-destruction is, in many ways, a huge step in a different direction. Bride of Re-animator uses the same idea in it's finale, with the existential terror the Bride feels, so it's an idea he has been fascinated with for a while, but to dig into it with an entire film is interesting and admirable. There are moments of pathos I didn't even explore, like the side-plot of Curt's father trying to save his son from a fate give to him through his own neglect; that by being driven into his career after his wife dying only further destroyed his family, leaving him with nothing.

There are moments where I question Yuzna's direction. The lighting is unflattering to the effects at moments. At times, camera movement is wrong for the idea they want to convey. There are, I assume, some character moments left on the cutting room floor because of pacing.

I saw this movie originally on the Sci-Fi channel, probably 15 years ago (I'm fascinated with how they had to edit this for TV; there are so many scenes where they had to blur out Julie's breasts because they're right there for so many integral scenes), and it has stuck with me ever since. I will always defend this movie, warts and all; because while it may be flawed in how it tells the story, it is a story that reflects the mundane horrors of being a teenager, at least in my generation, with an honesty and sincerity.

Debbie Does Dagon fucked around with this message at 02:47 on May 6, 2021

Hollismason
Jun 30, 2007

"Real life is messy, inconsistent, and it's seldom when anything ever really gets resolved."



I may have to give ROTLD 3 a rewatch. I think I've only ever seen the SCIFI version.

dorium
Nov 5, 2009

If it gets in your eyes
Just look into mine
Just look into dreams
and you'll be alright
I'll be alright






I just watched it this evening. I liked it well enough. Didnít rate high in my book though but it was interesting and weird and dumb.

alf_pogs
Feb 15, 2012




Spiral From The Book Of Saw is out this month and i am looking forward to seeing how they gently caress up the chronology as more and more acolytes step from the shadows

also keen to see Chris Rock and Samuel L Jackson in a horror movie, not gonna lie

Karloff
Mar 21, 2013



I'm very curious. Introducing two major actors who qualify as big box office draws for the ninth entry in a lower budget series for a cult fan base is a fascinating twist. And apparently only possible because Chris Rock is a member of that fan base.

CelticPredator
Oct 11, 2013



Bringing back Boseman interests me greatly. He has a fantastic interview on the movie crypt about it.

TheKingslayer
Sep 3, 2008

There are no men like me. There's only me.





RotLD 3 is a movie I find very good but I can't watch very often because at the end I'm just left bummed out by the climax. Not in a bad way, in the way that it works really well for me.

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Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014



CelticPredator posted:

Bringing back Boseman interests me greatly. He has a fantastic interview on the movie crypt about it.

Chadwick Boseman has a crypt alright, but I don't think he'll be coming back any time soon.

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