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Pomp
Apr 3, 2012

by Fluffdaddy


Burkion posted:

So you know what ultra mega successful and popular franchise is secretly a horror series, just no one ever talks about it in that context because it tends to hide/ignore that fact very well?

Godzilla. Some of you will get this immediately and already be nodding, indeed indeed. A lot of you however, when you think of Godzilla, you're thinking of one of three things.

One of the two American Godzilla films- which have mild elements of horror but in the same way that a disaster movie does.

Maybe Godzilla 2000, the last Japanese Godzilla to be released in American theaters nationwide.

Or this

First, this is the pinnacle of cinema and all naysayers are denied. This singular moment would cure any number of ills and put to rest the numerous woes of the world if it could only be accepted as the brilliance that it is.

The brilliance being, the movie just not giving a gently caress and doing whatever it wants and gently caress you for caring. But that's a whole other discussion for another day. Right now, we're going to focus in on Godzilla: Horror. To understand exactly how this franchise enters the horror frame of mind, beyond just the tangential connection of monster movies that are shared universally, we have to take a step back. We have to take the context of the time, and what informed it.

Actually we don't, so I'll be brief. World War 2, it was a poo poo. Atrocities, racist fuckheads, dogma, and a changing of civilization that swept the world over. WWI was the coming of the modern age of war, where classical ideals clashed with terrifying technology. WWII was the superior sequel with a greater depth of horrors yet unthought of, where instead of just the soldiers getting torn into, we got even more casualties involved. We're not giving a Japan a pass on this either- the Godzilla franchise itself has made note of their culpability in the war crimes they commited, the people they killed.

But Japan didn't do these things in a vacuum and get away with it. Of course there were the atomic bombings which broke the camel's back and ended the war- in the pacific at least. Poland got REAL hosed over but we're not talking about them right now. Before those though, were the fire bombings. Something that tends to be overlooked, how many air strikes were raided on Japanese civilian towns. More damage and more loss of lives are attributed to those events than the atomic bombs themselves. Basically, World War 2 was a poo poo and no one walked away happy.

World War 2 is incredibly important for this discussion because the horrors of it are mundane and depressing, and those are some of the very same horrors that make up Godzilla. Because Godzilla IS a product of World War 2, a response to it and what it had done to the nation of Japan. The people of Japan. To the creators of the work itself. Tsuburaya, the man who gave Godzilla life, was and is one of the most renowned and acknowledged special effects artists in history. His work helped define Japanese culture as it is today, and had a fair bit of influence over seas as well.

Yet it almost all went south because of World War 2. One of his biggest projects before he came back to the limelight in the 50s, was a recreation of Pearl Harbor. The studio he was working for had been tasked by the government to create propaganda films, and he was one of the many cogs in the machine caught in the middle. So he did his work, and reportedly did it so well and meticulously that it was mistaken for actual footage shot of the event.

After WWII, you can well imagine how this was received. When his blackballing was done, he quietly returned to Toho Studios with a full team on his side. He helped craft the visual story of Godzilla in his own way, working with Ishiro Honda and Tanaka hand in hand. Though, a huge element to what makes the original Godzilla so unsettling is his roar. The original roar is very different than what would become popularized, rougher and less warm.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRYq58QPTk8

Especially his chilling death cry from the end.

So for a group of men to make a movie that was about a giant monster rising from the ocean, which itself was based on the atomic testings on the Bikini Atoll and the sailors who were killed by it- long, sad story there- you really couldn't have asked for a better line up.

This brings us directly to the original movie. It is a masterpiece of filmmaking, yet because it was released in 1954 it had to share the stage with Rear Window and Seven Samurai, so you know. 1954 was kind of a big year for movies- and horror, as it turns out. From the jump, there is a quiet dread that hangs over the film, especially if you keep in mind the then extremely recent atomic testings and what had happened to Japanese sailors during them. A quiet dread that immediately takes a turn for the violent, ship after ship vanishing in atomic fire within the ocean.

Like any good horror film, the monster is built up. The moment you meet the monster is a monumental moment, but unlike the Universal Horror of old, the angry mob with torches run away from the beast that they had hoped to chase back to the sea. For Godzilla is quite the unique threat- invincible, unstoppable, unknowable. Emerging larger than a mountain, impervious to any and all of man's weapons, able to unleash nuclear fury from his mouth at a whim, Godzilla towers over all other cinematic monsters before him.

Here is the easiest place to find the horror elements of Godzilla, as he systematically eradicates Tokyo, burning it to the ground one block after another, crushing men, women and children alike. Imagery of the firebombings in Japan are evoked, explored, and even referenced. One of the most memorable moments is a widowed mother clutching her children as Godzilla's horror approaches ever closer, promising that they will soon be with their father.

We later find her corpse in one of the many crisis centers, 'hospitals overflowing with the maimed and the dead', to borrow from Raymond Burr in the American version King of the Monsters. More on that in a moment. We find her dead, her children orphans, and possibly doomed themselves to a much worse fate. Because in the aftermath, we find that Godzilla truly is just as vicious and awful as the nuclear fire that awoke him- he leaves radiation in his wake. Dangerous, deathly radiation, that has taken hold of many of the 'survivors' of his wrath. Including, notably, children.

Because the horror of Godzilla's attack isn't his direct actions, but all of the consequences after. Godzilla does not care for individual humans, does not notice them as such. He passes by and all goes to ruin in his wake. Not out of malicious intent- nothing he does is malicious, which is possibly the worst thing of all. Simply because of what he is, devastation follows. He is a horror that cannot co-exist with humanity.

What heightens this tragedy is the reason why I brought up, if only obliquely, Japan's own crimes in the war. Namely, all were victims in the end. There were no victors in war, not when the individuals were concerned. One country that terrorized others would then become victims themselves of another power. Japan and Germany are the most obvious examples, though others exist as well. The reason this paralel is important is because Godzilla is also a victim.

Godzilla's design in the original movie is that of a survivor of nuclear bombing. As in, someone who was directly exposed and is suffering accordingly. Unique to this Godzilla, obscured until the end by darkness, are radiation scars that cover him head to toe. His behavior is also patterned off of those unlucky individuals in the wake of the blasts, walking in a daze, bright lights and noises bothering them, sudden fits. Everything about him is intentionally, by the creators, patterned off of the victims of the very act that he embodies.

Fitting as in universe, the whole reason he is awake is because of those atomic testings. A victim and victimizer of atomic war. We see Godzilla in his natural element at the end, where he is calm, peaceful. A pitiful creature. In the end, they kill him with an even worse weapon than the atomic bomb ever could be, only for the dread of another Godzilla appearing to hang over their heads.

We take a detour here to King of the Monsters. The original Gojira is a taught and tightly paced, almost modern in fact, film that builds and builds mounting horrors and terrors until reaching Godzilla. The American version, King of the Monsters, takes that and scratches the record. Instead, we get another horror film genre in its origins here.

The Found Footage Film. The movie opens with a noir-style narration of Raymond Burr, playing a reporter who happened to be in the area. But it specifically opens after Godzilla's attack, after the peak of his destruction, and we work backwards from Raymond Burr's perspective to build back to up that moment. This gives the movie an entirely different edge and tone, and brings it in line with the likes of Cannibal Holocaust as the progenitors of the found footage genre as we know it today. It is a fascinating film, and Raymond Burr's narration is top notch through out, though he tries to end the film on an optimistic note, one of the few missteps.

One line that is applicable here however, and it is one exclusive to the American version and superior I believe, comes from one of the characters convincing the scientist who made the super weapon to use it.

"You have your fears, which may become reality, and you have Godzilla. Which is reality."

All backed up by this- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SowvXSmiIXo#t=26s

If you can get into the dated effects- mostly the puppet work- it is a suspenseful, unrelenting classic, that draws on broader, more cultural terrors and horror, while never ignoring the individual victims that hold it up. It is a draining, serious, unapologetic film that pulls no punches.



And like any great horror film, it had a quicky cash in sequel that was rushed out with half the effort and relying more on gimmicks than craftsmanship. Raids Again, funnily enough, could have been even better than the original, but it was so rushed that the highest it could rise was 'mediocre'. Which, following an atomic bomb of a film like Gojira, stings ever more.

Following was Rodan, itself a mild blip on the horror genre as it played with the American trend of giant insect monster movies that were popular back in the day. Only with the twist of the insects merely being the food for a greater terror, which is so far from a spoiler that it's not even worth going into.

Godzilla itself would dip back into horror from time to time, even pulling the all time classic Roger Coreman into its circle to create the American version of Return of Godzilla (1984), Godzilla 1985. Featuring Raymond Burr again! And Doctor Pepper. Though Return of Godzilla itself has some horror elements, most notably the beginning of the film on the boat, with the sea louse. It's another film that emphasizes that Godzilla does not need to act maliciously to DESTROY your life, as well.

Since then, we have smatterings of horror here and there. Notably there is an extended ALIENS rip off scene in Godzilla VS Destroyah that is suitably bonkers and awful. Just a really stupid, bad idea that I'm so happy exists. Also there is GMK Godzilla, who is the embodiment of all the souls wronged by Japan from WWII, acting out of revenge for Japan denying their war crimes and culpability. He is one of the only really malicious Godzillas, accordingly.

Of course, when talking existential horror, Shin is pretty high up there. The, to date, newest Godzilla movie, Shin Godzilla, features one of the most unsettling Gojis out there, who is an abomination of nature and radiation. Constantly changing, mutating to match what harms him, a mistake in the eyes of man who has come to punish them for his very creation- whenever the film focuses on him, it takes a dark turn.

Never mind what his first use of his beam does, and how quickly he could obliterate the status quo of the world.

If you're a horror fan, and you haven't thought much of them, think about looking at the Godzilla franchise. From cheesy, to serious, to horrifying and everywhere in between, you may yet find exactly what you're looking for.



Shin Godzilla owns so hard

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Bluedeanie
Jul 20, 2008

It's no longer a blue world, Max. Where could we go?



Dont disagree with any of the words about Dracula here but I am still a player hater

No. 1 Juicy Boi
Jun 1, 2003

#1 JUICY BOY



Buglord

axelblaze posted:

Of the many things I didn't like about 31, one thing that particularly stood out was him just trying to do that scene again with a different 70s staple, but without any of the buildup that gave the original scene any impact.

Things I didn't like about 31:

- The movie

M_Sinistrari
Sep 5, 2008

Do you like scary movies?





COOL CORN posted:

Things I didn't like about 31:

- The movie

To me it just felt more like it was lacking some of the spirit of his other films. Lords of Salem's clearly his homage to eurosleeze, House of 1000 Corpses/Devil's Rejects are the grindhouse/drive in, Haunted World of El Superbeasto's that making fun of the old scary cartoons we watched as kids. 31 just feels more like a 'let's get the usuals together and make a film'. It doesn't make it a bad film to me, just feels like a stumble on his growth as a director.

Tart Kitty
Dec 17, 2016

Oh, well, that's all water under the bridge, as I always say. Water under the bridge!



The only way I can describe 31 is, like, it felt made to order to me. Like if you had told me that Shudder had contracted Zombie to make that movie, Iíd believe it. Kind of feels like a paycheck movie, or at least the closest heís come to that.

Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.




Absolutely. I recall that Zombie wanted to make a hockey movie and got turned down, and soon after made 31. The movie feels like his response was "So you only want me to make Rob Zombie Style Horror Movies? Okay, here's your Rob Zombie Style Horror Movie gently caress you pay me."

Drunkboxer
Jun 30, 2007


Sometimes I think ďenough already, we get it. You like TCM and Spider BabyĒ but then I remember that he grew up in some sort of redneck nightmare carnival and thatís probably just who he is.

axelblaze
Oct 18, 2006

Congratulations The One Concern!!!

You're addicted to Ivory!!

and...oh my...could you please...
oh my...



Grimey Drawer

Wasn't 31 crowd funded though?

Kvlt!
May 19, 2012

DIG THROUGH THE DITCHES
AND BURN THROUGH THE WITCHES



Basebf555 posted:

It's a new thread and a fresh start. Nobody remembers what you were before, now you're Evil Bong guy.

mods evil bong avatar plz

Kvlt!
May 19, 2012

DIG THROUGH THE DITCHES
AND BURN THROUGH THE WITCHES



sorry for doublepost but i crowdfunded 31 bc im a huge fan of RZ as a musician and filmmaker but the MPAA just tore that movie to shreds

InfiniteZero
Sep 11, 2004

PINK GUITAR FIRE ROBOT



College Slice

Drunkboxer posted:

Sometimes I think ďenough already, we get it. You like TCM and Spider BabyĒ but then I remember that he grew up in some sort of redneck nightmare carnival and thatís probably just who he is.

His films feel way more like TCM2 than the original. He likes to have more colour, more Bill Moseley, and to have a bit of a gonzo feel to them, which are all characteristics of TCM2 more than TCM.

Also I'm surprised it took this thread nearly 3 pages before he was brought into the discussion yet again.

Rageaholic
May 31, 2005

Old Town Road to EGOT


Fart City posted:

TOM ATKINS
Wait a minute...how old are you?

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!



Fun Shoe

Zombie is my personal favorite horror director currently working, but for me he's stagnating as a filmmaker. He made Lords of Salem(a near masterpiece) in 2012. So that's six years now of trying to get the next movie made, failing, deciding to slap together 31 basically on a whim, then making the decision to do another Firefly sequel for the next one.

It's just worrying as a fan, he's not getting any younger and it seems like eventually he's gonna just decide that movie making isn't worth the trouble anymore. It's never been where his bread is buttered anyway. And that would be such a shame because I really thought that after Lords of Salem we had at least a few great horror movies to look forward to from him before it was all said and done. Now I'm not so sure.

Gaz2k21
Sep 1, 2006

MEGALA---WHO??!!??

Greetings new Horror thread just checking in to say that Part 7 is the best Friday the 13th.


Love

Gaz

Grant DaNasty
Jul 16, 2006






Iíve been considering getting a fiberglass replica Jason Voorhees hockey mask, but Iím not sure which Friday the 13th movie version to get.

Part 4 is iconic because of the cover art with the knife going though it, but part 8 is more wide, yellow, and has metal straps that makes it look cooler.

axelblaze
Oct 18, 2006

Congratulations The One Concern!!!

You're addicted to Ivory!!

and...oh my...could you please...
oh my...



Grimey Drawer

Kvlt! posted:

sorry for doublepost but i crowdfunded 31 bc im a huge fan of RZ as a musician and filmmaker but the MPAA just tore that movie to shreds

I saw it at Sundance which I think was before he had to make mpaa adjustments and it was still terrible

long-ass nips Diane
Dec 13, 2010

Breathe.


Get the metal Jason X mask so you can stand out

Samuel Clemens
Oct 4, 2013

I think we should call the Avengers.




Now THIS is how you start a thread.

gey muckle mowser
Aug 5, 2003

Do you know anything about...
witches?





Buglord

T Bowl posted:

I am a horror film fan, and I just recently watched "Would You Rather". It was ok, pretty goofy.

I liked it, but mostly because of Jeffrey Combs. Without him it would've been pretty dull I think.

graventy
Jul 27, 2006




Fun Shoe

Get the bag from the first movie. Only true fans will understand.

Hollismason
Jun 30, 2007

"Real life is messy, inconsistent, and it's seldom when anything ever really gets resolved."



Wooohooo!!


Would You Rather is pretty decent.

Kvlt!
May 19, 2012

DIG THROUGH THE DITCHES
AND BURN THROUGH THE WITCHES



i will watch any movie that has Rob Wells and Sasha Grey

InfiniteZero
Sep 11, 2004

PINK GUITAR FIRE ROBOT



College Slice

Grant DaNasty posted:

Iíve been considering getting a fiberglass replica Jason Voorhees hockey mask, but Iím not sure which Friday the 13th movie version to get.

Part 4 is iconic because of the cover art with the knife going though it, but part 8 is more wide, yellow, and has metal straps that makes it look cooler.

Check out this casual with only one Voorhees mask.

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013

If it wasn't for disappointment
I wouldn't have any appointment



Grimey Drawer

Staff picks are posted.

Burkion's excellent Godzilla write-up has the honor of being first effort-post for the 2nd OP.

Hooray and Huzzah!

Splint Chesthair
Dec 27, 2004



Pomp posted:

Shin Godzilla owns so hard

Shin Godzilla is a masterpiece. It's remarkable how it manages to feel like a complete 180-degree turn from the rest of the series while following the same basic beats as many of the previous entries. I love that within two years there were two Godzilla movies that took essentially opposite positions. The 2014 American Godzilla treats him with near-religious reverence, while in Shin he's a ecological problem. I love both of those movies.

Pomp
Apr 3, 2012

by Fluffdaddy


Shin has unsettling visuals and genuinely upsetting scenes of mass destruction and was also the best political comedy of a the until Sorry to Bother You happened

sigher
Apr 22, 2008

Down the Rabbit Hole.



I'll have to check out Shin Godzilla, but most other Godzilla titles are action comedies as if Jackie Chan was in that suit.

Kvlt!
May 19, 2012

DIG THROUGH THE DITCHES
AND BURN THROUGH THE WITCHES



hey i dont see evil bong in the staff picks wtf fran

SMP
May 5, 2009



Fourthing Shin Godzilla as an absolute masterpiece. My rural rear end was lucky enough to be visiting a city when that released, so I managed to catch it in theaters almost on a whim and god drat. That's one of the best theater experiences I've ever had. Seeing laser on the big screen was beautiful.

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!



Fun Shoe

Shin Godzilla really does have some scenes in it that are like Dr. Strangelove level comedy. Like when they give the order to fire on Godzilla, and then the order has to be filtered through like 8 different random staffers with ridiculous titles, and even THEN when the order comes through to the crew inside the heli it still has to be conveyed from like the pilot to the co-pilot. You don't see satire like that anymore.

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013

If it wasn't for disappointment
I wouldn't have any appointment



Grimey Drawer

Kvlt! posted:

hey i dont see evil bong in the staff picks wtf fran

I swear it was on there! Dunno how it got erased. It took me forever to find a good poster. Will re-find it and add it.

edit: Fixed.

edit: For context, this is what I'm looking at to work on/fix the staff picks images. So when one bracket gets deleted, a whole image goes missing without any indication:

Franchescanado fucked around with this message at 22:47 on Dec 12, 2018

Narzack
Sep 15, 2008


I don't remember who just posted about werewolf movies, but I want to repeat what I posted in the last thread. Howl, on Amazon Prime, is a cool little fanger banger. I really liked the design of the werewolves, too. It's not one you see everyday.

Origami Dali
Jan 7, 2005

Get ready to fuck!
You fucker's fucker!
You fucker!


Best opening scene is TCM with the narration, the camera flashes of the dug up corpse in the dark, to the corpse on the monument. TCM is also the best horror movie.

Also,
Jason Lives is the best.
Phantasm I-IV are all good for dif reasons.
Tom Atkins
Linnea Quigley is best horror babe.
Bram Stoker's Dracula is a hilariously bad mess, but a beautiful looking one.
Suspiria is by far the most overrated horror movie, but a beautiful looking one.
Black Christmas is the best slasher, and better than Halloween by a lot.
Rob Zombie is just ok. Eli Roth has never been good.
Evil Dead > Evil Dead II

CelticPredator
Oct 11, 2013



Army of Darkness > The Evil Dead

KA POW

Rageaholic
May 31, 2005

Old Town Road to EGOT


A reminder that when it comes to horror movies currently in theaters, The Possession of Hannah Grace is loving poo poo and a waste of your time!

CelticPredator
Oct 11, 2013



Was never going to see it in my lifetime anyway.

DeimosRising
Oct 17, 2005

°Hola SEA!




Lol disappointed owl why do you still have a 4 year old email from your ex

I donít care if it was a funny email címon brother

Choco1980
Feb 22, 2013

I fell in love with a Video Nasty


Good opening scenes in horror? Dead Alive's opening is pretty amazing.

sigher
Apr 22, 2008

Down the Rabbit Hole.



wat

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Coffee And Pie
Nov 4, 2010

"Blah-sum"?
More like "Blawesome"


Kvlt! posted:

i will watch any movie that has Rob Wells and Sasha Grey

I was discussing it on a date, we were trying to remember it and it was very difficult to not use her as a reference point.

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