Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us $3,400 per month for bandwidth bills alone, and since we don't believe in shoving popup ads to our registered users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
«356 »
  • Post
  • Reply
Flared Basic Bitch
Feb 22, 2005

Invading your personal space since 1968.


hostile apostle posted:

Stadia will offer the ability to jump in and play with the streamer you're watching (crowd play), or influence directly how they play (crowd choice), among other features. I think those features will be pretty interesting to see live in the wild.

Imagine having a brain so riddled with dementia that you think streamers are excited to let randos gently caress with their format.

And naturally the feature doesnít actually exist.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

American McGay
Feb 28, 2010



Every gaming company is trying to pivot and include gaming in their vertical.

sethsez
Jul 13, 2006

He's soooo dreamy...



Blotto_Otter posted:

A two-month free trial of the Pro tier is absolutely not what Stadia was originally pitching for their "basic" tier. What happens when the trial ends and I still want to buy games? Either pay up for the subscription, or make a new account every two months?

It would make sense for them to abandon the basic tier as originally described, because that was a fundamentally unworkable business model from day one. But if they have officially abandoned it, that's news to me.

You seem confused.

There is a free tier. There is also, in addition to that, a two-month trial period for Pro.

...!
Oct 5, 2003

You were all (w)right! I shall now consume the world.


quote:

Ok __________!

We need an "Ok boomer" type of response for people trashing Stadia on Tw or any other platform just because. ASAP.

Any suggestions?

quote:

"OK Luddite."

Blotto_Otter
Aug 16, 2013




sethsez posted:

You seem confused.

There is a free tier. There is also, in addition to that, a two-month trial period for Pro.

I was confused, I didn't realize that's how it is now. That's my mistake.

leftist heap
Feb 28, 2013

Gurpgork?



Fun Shoe

sethsez posted:

You seem confused.

There is a free tier. There is also, in addition to that, a two-month trial period for Pro.

Of course people are confused, the Stadia website does not make any of this clear. Their own material makes it seem as though there is no free tier, only a Pro trial

quote:

Get instant access to a collection of games with 2 months of Stadia Pro.

quote:

Many of us are spending more time at home. Here's 2 months of games on us to connect with your friends or explore another world. Find out more

quote:

Video games can be a valuable way to socialize with friends and family when youíre stuck at home, so weíre giving gamers in 14 countries free access to Stadia Pro for two months.

Anyone who signs up will get two free months of Stadia Pro with instant access to nine games, including GRID, Destiny 2: The Collection, and Thumper. You can purchase even more games on the store, which will remain yours to play even if you cancel your Stadia Pro subscription. If youíre already a paid Stadia Pro subscriber, we wonít charge you for the next two months. After that, Stadia Pro is $9.99 a month, but you can opt out of your subscription at any time.

There is no concrete free plan mentioned anywhere. You don't have to be that cynical to think the water is muddy on purpose.

Mirificus
Oct 29, 2004

Kings need not raise their voices to be heard


Stadia works amazing on the island in unsupported country with lovely internet posted:

Hey guys. I just wanna share that i love Stadia. I live in the Mediterranean island, in unsupported country, with not so great internet, and still Stadia works like a charm in 1080p even though i use it on Wifi with mesh router on my Macbook with another 1080 Twitch stream on the iPad. Thanks to developers and Google data centers magic. This tech is crazy. Ordered the controller to try it out on TV.

So in other words it works great even in not so great conditions, even if you are in the middle of the sea. I couldn`t imagine how it works closer to the data centers with wired connections. Anyway i can get steady good connection and a one button experience in any room with any satellite of my router Neatgear Orbi RB50. (Internet speed 120/20 Mbit/s)

Thanks, Google, keep up the good work!

quote:

Can't beat an honest review of what is a remarkable service.

hostile apostle
Aug 29, 2006

Count me as the idiot who spend $129 on a $70 chromecast ultra and a $70 controller to play RDR2 (which I have not played yet) in actual 4K 60fps and not some upscaled fake 4k on a $350 PS4 Pro which I don't have.


Users have a chance to get a bunch of games for free for 2 months to try the service out - wheres the negative? what is there to lose?

leftist heap
Feb 28, 2013

Gurpgork?



Fun Shoe

hostile apostle posted:

Users have a chance to get a bunch of games for free for 2 months to try the service out - wheres the negative? what is there to lose?

Does Google advertise a discrete free tier anywhere?

Stux
Nov 17, 2006

[posting intensifies]


hostile apostle posted:

Users have a chance to get a bunch of games for free for 2 months to try the service out - wheres the negative? what is there to lose?

asking wheres the negative is the wrong question to be asking, its whats the incentive. getting 2 months of free games isnt some incredible deal in the era of ridiculous bundles and sales, and epic just straight up giving everyone free games constantly. and even doing that they still have trouble pulling in non-fortnite users that actually spend on the platform. if what epic is doing right now isnt good enough why would you think googles much smaller effort is when its also trying to sell a service most people do not want.

leftist heap
Feb 28, 2013

Gurpgork?



Fun Shoe

I submit that unless Google offers a concrete "Free Tier" or "Base Tier" hostile apostle has not lived up to the spirit of their toxx

American McGay
Feb 28, 2010



There is a free tier. It comes with two months of Pro.

Weedle
May 31, 2006
Probation
Can't post for 6 days!


yeah when you launch the long-awaited free tier and itís not immediately clear that thatís what it is, you hosed up your launch. of course thatís nothing new for google

American McGay
Feb 28, 2010



I don't think anyone outside of this thread ribbing on HA was "long awaiting" a free version of Stadia. If you were interested in it you'd probably pay $9 to check it out and see if it's for you or not.

American McGay
Feb 28, 2010



The problem with Stadia is that it never bothered to establish itself as a legitimate platform but yet still expects you to pay near full price for a pretty mediocre selection of games. A free tier doesn't solve that. By trying to tiptoe the line between traditional consoles and Netflix style service they're effectively in no man's land.

Weedle
May 31, 2006
Probation
Can't post for 6 days!


American McGay posted:

I don't think anyone outside of this thread ribbing on HA was "long awaiting" a free version of Stadia. If you were interested in it you'd probably pay $9 to check it out and see if it's for you or not.

you could never try it for just $9, before the free tier launched you had to buy the $129 founders bundle or whatever

LITERALLY MY FETISH
Nov 11, 2010



Considering the actual story of how Luddite as a term of derision came to be, this is super on brand

leftist heap
Feb 28, 2013

Gurpgork?



Fun Shoe

American McGay posted:

There is a free tier. It comes with two months of Pro.

Google does not advertise it on their own website as such, nor did they really call it that in their own announcement.



That is basically the entirety of the first result you get if you Google "Stadia".

Like, I realize this is splitting hairs a little bit, but Google really does not call it a free tier and I think it's pretty understandable that people are confused about what is actually offered.

Weedle
May 31, 2006
Probation
Can't post for 6 days!


i'm sure this is one of those things that hostile apostle will say they're actively working to improve as though it takes a team of a dozen developers crunching away to add some text to a web page

sethsez
Jul 13, 2006

He's soooo dreamy...



hostile apostle posted:

Users have a chance to get a bunch of games for free for 2 months to try the service out - wheres the negative?

The negative is that Google doesn't advertise the existence of the free tier, so people will pay for a subscription once the trial runs out because they don't know other options exist.

Stadia: as honest as TurboTax.

...!
Oct 5, 2003

You were all (w)right! I shall now consume the world.


leftist heap posted:

I submit that unless Google offers a concrete "Free Tier" or "Base Tier" hostile apostle has not lived up to the spirit of their toxx

A Toxx Tier, if you will.

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


American McGay posted:

When clicking on a game offered free from the Pro trial the button says "CLAIM" which I guess I understand why, but the whole selling point of the service is how you can just drop right in and play.

They only have to pay for games that get claimed, rather than just hand over [Pro Subscribers]x[Game Price] to the publisher / developer. (Probably that was your understanding, but I figured I'd make it clear to the thread.)

leftist heap posted:

Google does not advertise it on their own website as such, nor did they really call it that in their own announcement.



That is basically the entirety of the first result you get if you Google "Stadia".

Like, I realize this is splitting hairs a little bit, but Google really does not call it a free tier and I think it's pretty understandable that people are confused about what is actually offered.

They need people to sign up for Pro. Their business model does not work in the slightest if every stadia user is on the free tier and buys one game like RDR2 or Division 2 then spends the next 100 hours playing through it.

The Kins posted:

Wasn't that the business model of porn sites back in the early 2000s? Get people to subscribe and hope they forget to cancel?

Dunno if you've noticed but that's the business model that everyone has been trying to get people to buy into. Netflix, Prime Video, Hulu, HBO Now, Disney+, Apple TV, Youtube Red, ESPN+, CBS All Access, and a dozen more.

That model is what Google wants to move into with Stadia, and that's why you should hope it dies an ugly death.

...!
Oct 5, 2003

You were all (w)right! I shall now consume the world.


quote:

Mentioned the current 2 month free offer to a friend a few weeks ago. His reply was "I don't want to get Stadia though".

'Get Stadia? You don't have to buy anything you can just access the games for free through Chrome'

"No, I don't want it"

I wish didn't seem like Google have to do this to entice new players, but seems some consider game streaming to be the antichrist or something

American McGay
Feb 28, 2010



Lol. I don't blame the friend honestly.

njsykora
Jan 23, 2012

Robots confuse squirrels.

Klyith posted:

They need people to sign up for Pro. Their business model does not work in the slightest if every stadia user is on the free tier and buys one game like RDR2 or Division 2 then spends the next 100 hours playing through it.

They probably should've thought of that before launching a videogame store.

Shumagorath
Jun 5, 2001


The amount of wasted energy from streaming a single game for 100hrs on the stadia is just

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


Shumagorath posted:

The amount of wasted energy from streaming a single game for 100hrs on the stadia is just

Meh, that electricity gets wasted whether you're playing a game on Stadia or on your home PC.

I'll happily dunk on stadia when it's dumb, but the electricity is IMO a complete wash. If some additional electricity gets used for the bandwidth between the server and your home, some is saved by power distribution to central commercial locations being more efficient than home delivery.


njsykora posted:

They probably should've thought of that before launching a videogame store.

why would you possibly bother having a well-thought-out business plan when a spectacular failure means you get another VP job in silicon valley?

Shumagorath
Jun 5, 2001


Klyith posted:

Meh, that electricity gets wasted whether you're playing a game on Stadia or on your home PC.

I'll happily dunk on stadia when it's dumb, but the electricity is IMO a complete wash. If some additional electricity gets used for the bandwidth between the server and your home, some is saved by power distribution to central commercial locations being more efficient than home delivery.
My display is CFL-backed and runs at 60W - that still has to be on regardless. Rack servers are typically configured to have 100% active power management because ops guys are paranoid. I have games I've played north of 350 hours so I'd think zero streaming vs full-time 1080p catches up quickly.

We had the same argument about audio CDs being greener than streaming already - gaming has to be much, much worse. Hell I bet it's even substantially better for Bluray vs. Netflix if I ship a few of them together.

Shumagorath fucked around with this message at 02:52 on May 22, 2020

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


Shumagorath posted:

My display is CFL-backed and runs at 60W - that still has to be on regardless. I have games I've played north of 350 hours so I'd think zero streaming vs full-time 1080p catches up quickly.

We had the same argument about audio CDs being greener than streaming already - gaming has to be much, much worse. Hell I bet it's even substantially better for Bluray vs. Netflix if I ship a few of them together.

I ignored most of the previous energy use arguments because they were lousy with incredibly bad data and inaccurate comparisons. The fact is, more bandwidth does not equal more energy use.


Global shipping accounts for 2-3% of the global carbon footprint. The internet is 2-3% of worldwide electrical usage. The two are not remotely the same.

...!
Oct 5, 2003

You were all (w)right! I shall now consume the world.


What if I said you're both

Shumagorath
Jun 5, 2001


Klyith posted:

I ignored most of the previous energy use arguments because they were lousy with incredibly bad data and inaccurate comparisons. The fact is, more bandwidth does not equal more energy use.


Global shipping accounts for 2-3% of the global carbon footprint. The internet is 2-3% of worldwide electrical usage. The two are not remotely the same.
Good point - I forgot Moore's Law isn't helping out IC engines. But surely the same flat power use extends to my PC? I've had the same displays for a decade and my last two PCs over that time period have both been ~700W machines (yes I know PSU rating != wall draw but the point remains). I'm also not rendering at < 1080p, upscaling it to 4K then compressing it down just to claim my rig is at some point doing 4K/60fps, which is exactly the stadia's dishonest marking line.

...! posted:

What if I said you're both


plz go on dr satoshi

Stux
Nov 17, 2006

[posting intensifies]


going to say that rendering the thing in a server and sending it across the internet to a pc which also still has to be on and powered is never going to be using less power than just playing it locally on that pc

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


Shumagorath posted:

But surely the same flat power use extends to my PC?

That's a no-op because your PC and a stadia PC in the datacenter would consume the same electricity, if they had the same hardware.

They probably don't have the same hardware. The Vega GPUs stadia uses are known to be power hogs, so that's a loss for stadia. But they're also in server machines which generally have more efficient power supplies than average home PCs. And these servers run VMs with more than one game per server, cutting out redundancy.

I don't know if stadia can run more than one game per GPU for games like the various indies that don't require a lot of horsepower. You could run 3 or 4 copies of Steamworld on a single GPU easily, just depends on if their VM system is smart enough. If they can it's no contest and stadia wins hands down.

Shumagorath posted:

I'm also not rendering at < 1080p, upscaling it to 4K then compressing it down just to claim my rig is at some point doing 4K/60fps, which is exactly the stadia's dishonest marking line.

Upscaling and downscaling is as near to free as makes no difference. The video encoding is done by a dedicated hardware encoder, which as dedicated-task silicon are very efficient. Nvidia's NVenc uses ~20 watts for 4k in low-latency mode. I don't know if they're using hardware on the GPU or if they even more specialized chips. (With how many hours per second of video youtube has to encode, has google made their own encoder chips? I wouldn't be surprised.)

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


Also Stadia turns off your game after 15 minutes idle. Have you ever wandered off and left a game running, then got distracted and only came back hours later and been like "oops did I not turn this off?" If so, you've wasted more electricity than stadia's eco-conscious timeout.


I lived with someone who was really really annoying about that: rather than save and quit a game when he was done, he would just turn off the monitor and leave. Including to sleep, so the game would be on the whole night. It took a whole lot of yelling about it to finally cut that out. And I was bitching about it being hot in the summer, not the electricity.

Fallom
Sep 6, 2008




Fun Shoe

Spent a few hours troubleshooting my wifi situation to get GeForce Now running in tip top shape

And man, I just can't do it. The extra latency to everything just gives me a headache. The best connection I can manage is 30ms and even that's too much.

Stux
Nov 17, 2006

[posting intensifies]


going with there is absolutely no way the stadia VMs are sharing gpus

leftist heap
Feb 28, 2013

Gurpgork?



Fun Shoe

Cloud gaming is absolutely not more energy efficient than modern consoles and is probably more in line with high end gaming PCs. None of the current consoles go past 200W and are largely well under that, plus they all support some form of hibernate.

MikusR
Jan 5, 2008


leftist heap posted:

Cloud gaming is absolutely not more energy efficient than modern consoles and is probably more in line with high end gaming PCs. None of the current consoles go past 200W and are largely well under that, plus they all support some form of hibernate.
Xcloud uses literary same soc as Xbox One S. Add to that unified cooling and DC power and you get something that's more energy efficient.

limaCAT
Dec 22, 2007

il pistone e male


Slippery Tilde

leftist heap posted:

I submit that unless Google offers a concrete "Free Tier" or "Base Tier" hostile apostle has not lived up to the spirit of their toxx

There is a stadia base tier, but it has the downside that it comes with stadia.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

limaCAT
Dec 22, 2007

il pistone e male


Slippery Tilde

Flared Basic Bitch posted:

Imagine having a brain so riddled with dementia that you think streamers are excited to let randos gently caress with their format.

Streamers don't even want developers to change things and make them easier for randos because that would gently caress with their format.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply
«356 »