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Futaba Anzu
May 5, 2011

GROSS BOY



Nitrousoxide posted:

It is pretty hosed up that he keeps shoving her back into the gauntlet over and over when she clearly can't handle it.

that's the realization he made when garfield told him about it on the carriage ride

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Sankara
Jul 18, 2008




Oh no, the titty ninja is back!

Clarste
Apr 15, 2013

Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.


Nitrousoxide posted:

It is pretty hosed up that he keeps shoving her back into the gauntlet over and over when she clearly can't handle it.

I liked the implication that he's doing exactly the same thing to her that he got angry at Rozwaal for.

Jon Joe
Oct 19, 2011

GUESS WHO'S LYING


Grimey Drawer

This episode was good but felt super short

Hogama
Sep 3, 2011


Clarste posted:

I liked the implication that he's doing exactly the same thing to her that he got angry at Rozwaal for.
From the set-up alone, the direction for Subaru's development this arc seems to be about learning to really consider others' feelings and maybe try and be proactive in learning who they are. Don't forget when he met Beatrice on coming home and upset her by treating her like someone obligated to give him whatever information he asks for.

Mindblast
Jun 28, 2006

Moving at the speed of death.




Jon Joe posted:

This episode was good but felt super short

After the dc of previous season they all do.

Zetsubou-san
Jan 28, 2015

Cruel Bifaunidas demanded that you [stand], I require only that you [kneel]


it's because this episode had an OP

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?




Nitrousoxide posted:

It is pretty hosed up that he keeps shoving her back into the gauntlet over and over when she clearly can't handle it.

Yeah, he's kinda lost touch with struggling after his many painful deaths.

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010

USNews: Biden approves $735M weapons sale to Israel


College Slice

He also still has a bit of a thing where he treats people like NPC's in a video game.

Elephant Parade
Jan 20, 2018



Nitrousoxide posted:

It is pretty hosed up that he keeps shoving her back into the gauntlet over and over when she clearly can't handle it.
the show seems interested in exploring that hosed-up-ness, given the scene where garfiel tells subaru how awful it is for her and asks him if facing her past (i.e. undergoing the trial) is really something she needs to do

e: forgot to read the new page

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination


Someone mentioned earlier that it was on par with what Roswaal was doing, I just wanted to mention that it isn't quiet on par with Roswaal to be honest.

Emilia, as far as we know, does want to undergo the trial. She wants to grow as a person, and become queen of the land. Rem and Ram are just kind of doing their jobs, and it sucks when they're ordered into a situation that will probably result in their deaths. The villagers are just trying to live their lives and trust in their lord to keep them safe, so it sucks when their lord purposefully puts them in a dangerous situation so that Emilia can prove herself.

Like, Subaru is pushing her but he's pushing her to succeed in the sense that he's supporting her decision. Roswaal put a bunch of people at risk, people we saw would die if Subaru didn't have special powers, as a political gambit.

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?




Yeah, it's more like Subaru's being an extremely out of touch parent who means well but is ultimately probably being quite harmful but doesn't see it, and is just so gosh darned proud that the kid's trying.

Roswaal knew that Hans Gruber was going to gatecrash the Christmas party at Nakatomi Plaza and left his kids there so they could make the news and become celebs. Maybe a bit of character building too.

sirtommygunn
Mar 7, 2013





Incredible self-control by Subaru to only attempt to punch Roswaal once.

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

0.000% of Communism has been built. Evil child-murdering billionaires still rule the world with a shit-eating grin.

I should probably start watching the anime soon, since it seems like you guys are getting to the point where I forget the exact order in which things happen.

Argue
Sep 29, 2005

I represent the Philippines

I didn't exactly follow what Roswaal did. He "purposely led these events to happen"? What are "these events"? So, more than withholding information, he what, told the witch's cult to attack? Was he also somehow responsible for the white whale attacking, in order to secure the alliance?

Wicked Them Beats
Apr 1, 2007



Argue posted:

I didn't exactly follow what Roswaal did. He "purposely led these events to happen"? What are "these events"? So, more than withholding information, he what, told the witch's cult to attack? Was he also somehow responsible for the white whale attacking, in order to secure the alliance?

He knew the cult would attack but was purposefully away on business so Subaru and Emilia would have to deal with it. He's strong enough (supposedly) that he could have crushed Sloth's assault.

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination


This should be fairly easy to understand because it's not morally complex.

Let's say you absolutely know that an avalanche is imminent and going to crush a village living under the mountain and choose not to warn them of their imminent danger. If they are harmed by the avalanche collapsing on them you should bear some of the responsibility for the tragedy. For not warning the villagers and doing something very small to help them evacuate in time.

You may not have caused an avalanche to fall on them. But you chose not to help people you could have easily helped.

Roswaal didn't personally send the witches cult to murder the villagers. But he knew and chose to not act on the knowledge and prepare the villagers to deal with the cult in any way.

Roswaal's choice to not act in the way to ensure the well being of the villagers reveals something of his moral character. He gets them all killed in like 5/6 worlds.

Hogama
Sep 3, 2011


Argue posted:

I didn't exactly follow what Roswaal did. He "purposely led these events to happen"? What are "these events"? So, more than withholding information, he what, told the witch's cult to attack? Was he also somehow responsible for the white whale attacking, in order to secure the alliance?
I'd say we do not yet know the extent of his involvement in everything (which could range from "somehow had advance warning of plans and made sure everyone was in his desired places" to "purposefully and personally conspired to set events in motion"), but at least from the context of that talk, I think he's saying that he knew that the Witch's Cult was going for Emilia and made sure that Subaru and Emilia would be in a position to stop the Cult (with assistance - Rem was with Subaru to make sure he could use the mineral rights as an alliance sweetener), that Roswaal himself would out of reach of intervention (so no one could directly petition his aid), and it seems also so that the villagers would need to be evacuated to Sanctuary (which was part of why he left Ram at the mansion) to in turn get held hostage to force Subaru and Emilia to come after them and get stuck doing the Trial.

If he's savvy enough to guess what would need to be done without his help, he's clever enough to know the most likely options they'd take.

AnoHito
May 8, 2014



The amount of faith Roswaal has in Subaru makes me suspect he might know more than he's letting on. I mean, Subaru was entirely correct that he was a worthless weakling before he went through the events like 5 times, there was no reason for Roswaal to believe his plan would work unless he knew something wasn't quite as it appeared.

I'm also not entirely certain that him being there would have done much of anything. Sloth was kind of, you know, really hard to beat. I would almost say impossible, if you didn't know everything about him ahead of time and also couldn't just see his main power. He also had no way of knowing that the whale would show up and make things about 100 times harder. Or that Subaru would be such a monumental fuckup that Emilia would abandon him, for that matter.

Mindblast
Jun 28, 2006

Moving at the speed of death.




Yeah the potential implications of him letting it happen are interesting. Straight through his anger Subaru asked the correct questions. Emilia is very important and Subaru a recent player in the field. He came rolling in at the most convenient of moments and is laced with a mystery witch curse and no apparent traits. Why would he (roswaal) entrust his future to this uncertain factor? Clairvoyance? Mind reading? Tons of options here.

I'm beginning to think that Crusch's faction may be the closest we have to a legit good guy/gal group. And that's still unlikely as there's plenty unknown.

Toalpaz posted:

This should be fairly easy to understand because it's not morally complex.

I sincerely doubt people had problems grasping at least THAT much.

Mordja
Apr 26, 2014




Hell Gem

Oh, I'm definitely under the assumption now that he knows about Subaru's ability. Especially considering his family's link to the witches.

rocketbrah
Sep 24, 2003

it's peanut butter
⚡ MORPHIN' TIME ⚡


Argue posted:

I didn't exactly follow what Roswaal did.

He didn't do anything. That's the beauty of it.

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010

USNews: Biden approves $735M weapons sale to Israel


College Slice

Roswaal's actions for an IRL comparison is the famous example of Churchill infamously deciding to let Coventry be bombed by the Germans instead of risking informing them that they had cracked the enigma.

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?




Raenir Salazar posted:

Roswaal's actions for an IRL comparison is the famous example of Churchill infamously deciding to let Coventry be bombed by the Germans instead of risking informing them that they had cracked the enigma.

Not really? That comparison would only make sense if he knew due to having spies in the Witch Cult and he didn't want to blow their cover.

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010

USNews: Biden approves $735M weapons sale to Israel


College Slice

HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:

Not really? That comparison would only make sense if he knew due to having spies in the Witch Cult and he didn't want to blow their cover.

More about the idea of letting bad things happen, very bad things, in order for a win later.

Vincent Van Goatse
Nov 8, 2006
I ran crying to the mods because someone bought me a title with naughty words in it. (twice!)
I am the world's softest bitch and you you should remind me of it forever. If this text is gone it's because I couldn't handle being a fucking loser.


Smellrose

Raenir Salazar posted:

Roswaal's actions for an IRL comparison is the famous example of Churchill infamously deciding to let Coventry be bombed by the Germans instead of risking informing them that they had cracked the enigma.

You mean a specific thing that didn't actually happen? Interesting analogy considering return by death and all.

Kung Food
Dec 11, 2006

PORN WIZARD

It's entirely possible that Roswaal knows about return by death. He owns a forbidden library occupied by someone with close personal knowledge of the witch's cult and Subaru gives off a noticeable witch smell. On top of that in the final timeline Subaru acts in a way that suggests he had prior knowledge of events so its not unreasonable that Roswaal, being who he is, might deduce what is going on with this eccentric weirdo who showed up on his doorstep out of the blue.

Or he might have been directly involved in summoning Subaru, given that he has done a lot of meticulous pre-planning that started before Subaru even arrived.

Kung Food fucked around with this message at 19:01 on Aug 7, 2020

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010

USNews: Biden approves $735M weapons sale to Israel


College Slice

Vincent Van Goatse posted:

You mean a specific thing that didn't actually happen? Interesting analogy considering return by death and all.

Anime isn't real either? I don't get your point here. Whether the event happened or not doesn't really have bearing as an analogy for Roswaal's motivations.

Wicked Them Beats
Apr 1, 2007



Raenir Salazar posted:

Anime isn't real either? I don't get your point here. Whether the event happened or not doesn't really have bearing as an analogy for Roswaal's motivations.

You literally called it an "IRL comparison." Very weird to double down on it when someone proves it isn't. Also the analogy was bad regardless. If you wanted to make a dumb WW2 analogy using debunked conspiracy theories you could have at least gone with the classic "FDR knew about Pearl Harbor in advance." That one is way more directly applicable to the situation we're discussing.

Kung Food posted:

It's entirely possible that Roswaal knows about return by death. He owns a forbidden library occupied by someone with close personal knowledge of the witch's cult and Subaru gives off a noticeable witch smell. On top of that in the final timeline Subaru acts in a way that suggests he had prior knowledge of events so its not unreasonable that Roswaal, being who he is, might deduce what is going on with this eccentric weirdo who showed up on his doorstep out of the blue.

Or he might have been directly involved in summoning Subaru, given that he has done a lot of meticulous pre-planning that started before Subaru even arrived.

There's a lot we don't know. Unfortunately the protagonist we're tied to doesn't care about any of it except insofar as it relates to helping Emilia or Rem, so no way to know how long we're going to have to wait to get our questions answered. "Hey you probably have a lot of questions for me -" "No sorry I have no questions just need to get back to Emilia, peace I'm out"

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010

USNews: Biden approves $735M weapons sale to Israel


College Slice

Wicked Them Beats posted:

You literally called it an "IRL comparison." Very weird to double down on it when someone proves it isn't. Also the analogy was bad regardless. If you wanted to make a dumb WW2 analogy using debunked conspiracy theories you could have at least gone with the classic "FDR knew about Pearl Harbor in advance." That one is way more directly applicable to the situation we're discussing.

There's a pretty big difference between a literal conspiracy theory which had no evidence and something that's so commonly believed in popular culture it even made it into an episode of Star Trek; but again it doesn't really change the point of the post so it's equally strange to me in an anime thread to focus more on whether it happened or not over the value of the analogy; because if I had just slightly reworded my post's substance wouldn't have changed.

Vincent Van Goatse
Nov 8, 2006
I ran crying to the mods because someone bought me a title with naughty words in it. (twice!)
I am the world's softest bitch and you you should remind me of it forever. If this text is gone it's because I couldn't handle being a fucking loser.


Smellrose

Raenir Salazar posted:

Anime isn't real either? I don't get your point here. Whether the event happened or not doesn't really have bearing as an analogy for Roswaal's motivations.

If you're drawing an IRL comparison you should make sure the event you're using actually happened. Like if I said that Roswaal blowing up the mabeasts at the end of the mansion arc was like how Perseus and the Athenian triremes rode to the rescue of the Spartans at Thermopylae I'd expect to be endlessly dunked on, or at least corrected on my inaccurate knowledge of history.

You posted something historically false and I, being a historian, corrected you while trying to keep the post relevant to discussing this wonderful show. It's not rocket surgery.

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010

USNews: Biden approves $735M weapons sale to Israel


College Slice

Vincent Van Goatse posted:

If you're drawing an IRL comparison you should make sure the event you're using actually happened. Like if I said that Roswaal blowing up the mabeasts at the end of the mansion arc was like how Perseus and the Athenian triremes rode to the rescue of the Spartans at Thermopylae I'd expect to be endlessly dunked on, or at least corrected on my inaccurate knowledge of history.

You posted something historically false and I, being a historian, corrected you while trying to keep the post relevant to discussing this wonderful show. It's not rocket surgery.

But this continues to sorta not make sense, who here would actually know about those ancient greek conflicts to result in you being "endlessly" dunked on? Like that's a terrible example and would actually support the idea that it's a reasonable mistake to make. Why is being dunked on something that would be expected instead of making productive use of the conversation that happened? We should be all friends here focusing on good faith constructive discussion, not aiming for openings to "own" people or await hazing rituals. Yes, 'twas wrong about an event I heard in my highschool history class two decades that got reinforced by popular culture oh well! Sadly never came across that wikipedia article before and now I know better.

Regardless, I don't see why that should in the end negate the observation made in that post in its entirety is what I'm saying, because if there had been a mythological event that was approximately similar that had came to mind instead I would've used that instead, because my usage of "an irl comparison" was because I thought it was true; not as an assertion in the validity of the analogy.

Raenir Salazar fucked around with this message at 20:25 on Aug 7, 2020

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


this is such a pedantic argument

Lurking Haro
Oct 27, 2009



RoswalMods knew that this discussion will take place and chose not to end it, just so people can see how derailing it is.

Wark Say
Feb 22, 2013

WELCOME TO THE DUNGEON

Lurking Haro posted:

RoswalMods knew that this discussion will take place and chose not to end it, just so people can see how derailing it is.
Uh, I was busy?

Also Raenir and Vinny knock this off or I'm giving you both a timeout.

Zetsubou-san
Jan 28, 2015

Cruel Bifaunidas demanded that you [stand], I require only that you [kneel]


the ralp faction is at it again

Vincent Van Goatse
Nov 8, 2006
I ran crying to the mods because someone bought me a title with naughty words in it. (twice!)
I am the world's softest bitch and you you should remind me of it forever. If this text is gone it's because I couldn't handle being a fucking loser.


Smellrose

Did you know this show is #1 this week on Anime Trending?

Sazabi
Feb 15, 2014

A-MA-ZON!!

Vincent Van Goatse posted:

Did you know this show is #1 this week on Anime Trending?

How many loops did it take for this outcome?

Vincent Van Goatse
Nov 8, 2006
I ran crying to the mods because someone bought me a title with naughty words in it. (twice!)
I am the world's softest bitch and you you should remind me of it forever. If this text is gone it's because I couldn't handle being a fucking loser.


Smellrose

Sazabi posted:

How many loops did it take for this outcome?

Well, the first time I had t

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Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010

USNews: Biden approves $735M weapons sale to Israel


College Slice

Wark Say posted:

Uh, I was busy?

Also Raenir and Vinny knock this off or I'm giving you both a timeout.

No problem!

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