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Not Keyser Soze
Mar 7, 2007

Endless Celestial Sex

The fact that "this time" gets by without a heart grab possibly means we could have characters piece together the whole Return by Death system without violating whatever arbitrary rules Satella has in place over what Subaru can disclose.

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Raxivace
Sep 9, 2014



Maybe Ram is starting to remember the loops because her name is Random Access Memory.

Rem's name of course, refers to "rem" sleep and she's currently in a coma and that's kind of like sleeping.

It's all in the names.

Tabletops
Jan 27, 2014

anime

Conspiratiorist posted:

It's played for laughs but the Memory Snow OVA shows Puck and Roswaal had a full DBZ-style fight when they first encountered each other, which they both look fondly back on as having been quite "exciting".

I assumed that was either bullshit or puck humoring him. I hate to be a mega nerd but roswaal doesn't rank on any of nagatsuki's power rankings lol

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


Not Keyser Soze posted:

The fact that "this time" gets by without a heart grab possibly means we could have characters piece together the whole Return by Death system without violating whatever arbitrary rules Satella has in place over what Subaru can disclose.

Happened a bunch of times in S1, too.

This particular aspect of RbD only seems to be triggered if Subaru is deliberately attempting to spill the beans.

Tabletops posted:

I assumed that was either bullshit or puck humoring him. I hate to be a mega nerd but roswaal doesn't rank on any of nagatsuki's power rankings lol

If we're bringing in Q&As, Nagatsuki said that Puck in his true form ties with Roswaal (who is the strongest magic user in the series so far).

Vincent Van Goatse
Nov 8, 2006
I ran crying to the mods because someone bought me a title with naughty words in it. (twice!)
I am the world's softest bitch and you you should remind me of it forever. If this text is gone it's because I couldn't handle being a fucking loser.


Smellrose

Elsa hurt Patrasche and now I hope she dies horribly.

Wark Say
Feb 22, 2013

WELCOME TO THE DUNGEON

Raxivace posted:

Rem's name of course, refers to "rem" sleep and she's currently in a coma and that's kind of like sleeping.
♫ That's Rem in the corner. ♪

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010

USNews: Biden approves $735M weapons sale to Israel


College Slice

Not Keyser Soze posted:

The fact that "this time" gets by without a heart grab possibly means we could have characters piece together the whole Return by Death system without violating whatever arbitrary rules Satella has in place over what Subaru can disclose.

RBD seems to be whenever he's trying to tell someone deliberately, it's interesting that Echidna reading his mind or similar seems to get a pass, or Subaru's random non-sequitors also get a pass. Feels like Satella's rules about this might be either be a bit under autopilot according to very specific criteria, or her like ghost or something maybe either is cool with it as long as he isn't trying to jeopardize her plans. It'll be cool to see what the explanation in the end is.

A big flaming stink
Apr 26, 2010


so why was garf aggro to hell and back with subaru this time around? why did roswaal's insistence on emilia passing the trial not apply to the last cycle?

Vincent Van Goatse
Nov 8, 2006
I ran crying to the mods because someone bought me a title with naughty words in it. (twice!)
I am the world's softest bitch and you you should remind me of it forever. If this text is gone it's because I couldn't handle being a fucking loser.


Smellrose

I want to give Rem a big hug and tell her things will be OK.

thechosenone
Mar 20, 2009


Only thing I can think of is Garf notices something the second time Emelia tries and fails, or is just sort of reacting in a contrarian manner.

Lurking Haro
Oct 27, 2009



A big flaming stink posted:

so why was garf aggro to hell and back with subaru this time around? why did roswaal's insistence on emilia passing the trial not apply to the last cycle?

Last time, Emilia failed over and over again. Now Subaru offered to do the trial right after.

Zetsubou-san
Jan 28, 2015

Cruel Bifaunidas demanded that you [stand], I require only that you [kneel]


great timing, Beatrice, I suppose

Armani Glasses
Feb 29, 2008

They're for reading.

Zetsubou-san posted:

great timing, Beatrice, I suppose

That's the tragedy of it I guess, she doesn't know she's doing a 'bad' thing. It does make me worry Petra and Patrische miiight be done for though.

Lurking Haro
Oct 27, 2009



Armani Glasses posted:

That's the tragedy of it I guess, she doesn't know she's doing a 'bad' thing. It does make me worry Petra and Patrische miiight be done for though.

Did you miss Petra's arm and her body lying under the debris?

Ethiser
Dec 31, 2011



Lurking Haro posted:

Did you miss Petra's arm and her body lying under the debris?

I think they mean in the sense that he didn’t get to die and reset everything.

Lurking Haro
Oct 27, 2009



Ethiser posted:

I think they mean in the sense that he didn’t get to die and reset everything.

It's awfully early to think he only gets one retry.
He also wanted to check if Rem is alive before dying, which was prevented by landing in the Library.

Not Keyser Soze
Mar 7, 2007

Endless Celestial Sex

Lurking Haro posted:

Did you miss Petra's arm and her body lying under the debris?

That scene is actually hard to make out because of the bloodied vision on top what I assume is anime Censorship Shadows. I assumed Petra was dead from context clues and because I knew what show I was watching.

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012


Subaru was only holding on to her arm. We then flash to her body under the debris.

Armani Glasses
Feb 29, 2008

They're for reading.

Ethiser posted:

I think they mean in the sense that he didn’t get to die and reset everything.

Yes that is what I meant! I obviously hope this isn't the last run he gets, but it ended like it possibly could be, to me at least.

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010

USNews: Biden approves $735M weapons sale to Israel


College Slice

I think Subaru's resets are mostly in regards to him reseting until he achieves some personal or overall goal that helps in advancing Satella's still currently unknown Xanatos level of consoluted plan. I don't really see what not being able to reset the death of Patriche and Petra would accomplish other than traumatizing him more. Maybe it could be argued he has yet to truly accept loss but I'm not really feeling it that's super pressing right now.

Sometimes the reset point is made right after some major change i.e his fight with Emilia, either because the Doylist explanation that its necessasary for his personal growth in how he sees and interacts with others or because the Watsonian explanation being that fight was necessary to advance the Plan.

One thing that I felt like I noticed this season was he might've been a little too reliant on the ability to reset to avoid a bad outcome, instead of facing it head on and learning the most from it; i.e acquire as much information as possible. Like when he first encountered Rem this season he learned nothing from that reset other than that it couldn't be reset. He didn't try to investigate it because of how distraught he was.

I feel like I can intuitively sense some sort of parallel being drawn here where Emilia is having difficulty facing her past, but isn't really concerned with the future; where Subaru is the reverse, in the end he faced his past head on, its the future he's afraid of where he's afraid of losing those he loves and would prefer to reset everything rather than face it again.

Hogama
Sep 3, 2011


So far, Subaru's checkpoints have been situations where he, personally, is neither in immediate danger of dying nor seriously incapacitated, and has at least hours if not days to resolve the major obstacle in his path. If Return by Death were to update anywhere starting now, following the pattern, Beatrice would likely have to fully heal him and ensure he's in a position to not be troubled by Elsa. I'm not sure she quite has that capacity, so my feeling is that this is still a failed timeline, but he's not quite done learning everything he can for the loop.

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012


Trying to understand how much time he has.

LostRook
Jun 7, 2013


To put episode 5 and 6 in a timeline:

Episode 5

Night 1 he passes the trial, has the discussion with Garf, Otto and Ryuzu and then talks with Emilia.

Day 1 he talks with Ram about people trying to stop the barrier being broken

Night 2 he talks with Garf as Emilia fails the trial again, then has a discussion with Roswal.

Day 2 he packs up the villagers of Arlam and returns to the mansion, not arriving until the end of the day.

Episode 6

Night 1 passes much the same except Emilia is in the discussion as well and he talks to Roswal about leaving the next day.

Day 1 he quickly leaves in the morning with Ram arriving at the mansion around midday.

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010

USNews: Biden approves $735M weapons sale to Israel


College Slice

That's a good point as well that I'm not sure we've ever had a reset save update at any time before the latest point he dies at or along those lines.

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012


LostRook posted:

To put episode 5 and 6 in a timeline:

Episode 5

Night 1 he passes the trial, has the discussion with Garf, Otto and Ryuzu and then talks with Emilia.

Day 1 he talks with Ram about people trying to stop the barrier being broken

Night 2 he talks with Garf as Emilia fails the trial again, then has a discussion with Roswal.

Day 2 he packs up the villagers of Arlam and returns to the mansion, not arriving until the end of the day.

Episode 6

Night 1 passes much the same except Emilia is in the discussion as well and he talks to Roswal about leaving the next day.

Day 1 he quickly leaves in the morning with Ram arriving at the mansion around midday.

I thought there was an extra day in episode 5 as he said it took him another day to convince Garf to let the villagers leave.

MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 01:59 on Aug 15, 2020

Jon Joe
Oct 19, 2011

GUESS WHO'S LYING


Grimey Drawer

Yeah my understanding was that ep 5 covered 3 days.

A big flaming stink
Apr 26, 2010


Raenir Salazar posted:

That's a good point as well that I'm not sure we've ever had a reset save update at any time before the latest point he dies at or along those lines.

while thats true, haven't the reset points been like, 4 or 5 points total?

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010

USNews: Biden approves $735M weapons sale to Israel


College Slice

A big flaming stink posted:

while thats true, haven't the reset points been like, 4 or 5 points total?

There haven't been that that many save points but there's been a lot of resets such that going by the current pattern Subaru generally has at least until he gets past his latest death by reset before his save moves. And generally his save never moves if he hasn't accomplished something, I feel like there's nothing to indicate a reset at the moment.

Sazabi
Feb 15, 2014

A-MA-ZON!!

It says a lot about how good and compelling the story is if people in this thread can watch all of season 1 and still feel uncertain if ole' angry eyes Subaru can pull a metaphorical rabbit out of every hat in hat emporium.

I also just realized who maylie is. And I'm overjoyed by how willing the show is to introduce seemingly throwaway characters that take entire seasons to return by plot.

Hogama
Sep 3, 2011


The aftermath of arc 3 has shown that even if Subaru "wins" he is not guaranteed a "golden ending" so the stakes are raised to "can Subaru pull this off without sacrificing too much and being unable to try again for a better outcome?" The nature of Return by Death being mostly out of his control retains a tension in the whole arrangement.

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010

USNews: Biden approves $735M weapons sale to Israel


College Slice

And it bears repeating, the fact that Subaru is still mostly a weak, normal person in a world full back to back with badasses and insanely powerful characters and makes his way through by muddling it learning from mistake after mistake.

A lot of isekais I glance at where the protagonist is a showy invincible protagonist just seems so bland and samey.

Annointed
Mar 2, 2013



Subaru did help this fight by being a walking smoke bomb. So there's that I guess.

ExiledTinkerer
Nov 4, 2009


Seems like that will cause problems directly as, unless I've missed a step(or several given This Show..), the ever-more janked up condition of his rickety gate seems to be about the only thing that remains a constant unlike the rest of his physical condition upon resets---he was already supposed to be absolutely forbidden from the lot of it for quite some time yet given the last big fight.

Zetsubou-san
Jan 28, 2015

Cruel Bifaunidas demanded that you [stand], I require only that you [kneel]


WHAT THE gently caress

Armani Glasses
Feb 29, 2008

They're for reading.

Zetsubou-san posted:

WHAT THE gently caress

That was a very stressful first 5 minutes to watch, I had to pause and step away for a moment cause oh boy Subaru calm down please. And then everything else happened, but at least we got to see that Subaru has made so many friends and he didn't even realise!

Annointed
Mar 2, 2013



WAIT SO Beatrice is part of the witch’s cult and let Elsa kill everyone, and let Elsa into her library so Elsa can kill Subaru. And made sure it was Elsa killing Subaru and not Subaru killing himself as it’s not part of the cult’s book’s prophecy. And now the village head and Garfield are trying to pull a gambit and get Emilia to succeed the trials by having Subaru kidnapped also cause Subaru is full of Witch Scent now.

I am having difficulty understanding wait

So is Mother? Did Beatrice say “Mother” so like are the Witches or at least one of them the creator of Beatrice???

Grouchio
Aug 31, 2014

The Entire Freakin' John Galt Speech


Grouchio posted:

I TOLD Y'ALL THIS IS GOOD poo poo

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010

USNews: Biden approves $735M weapons sale to Israel


College Slice

So no wonder why Gar was acting different each reset. Subaru's witch's scent was something Garfield acted on depending on the severity of it, and also seems to go away with time?

The bit with Beako was hard to watch. Subaru has a habit of lashing out when he's stressed and emotionally hurting people.

Nitrousoxide
May 30, 2011

do not buy a oneplus phone





Annointed posted:

WAIT SO Beatrice is part of the witch’s cult and let Elsa kill everyone, and let Elsa into her library so Elsa can kill Subaru. And made sure it was Elsa killing Subaru and not Subaru killing himself as it’s not part of the cult’s book’s prophecy. And now the village head and Garfield are trying to pull a gambit and get Emilia to succeed the trials by having Subaru kidnapped also cause Subaru is full of Witch Scent now.

I am having difficulty understanding wait

So is Mother? Did Beatrice say “Mother” so like are the Witches or at least one of them the creator of Beatrice???


I would guess that Beatrice is one of the witch archbishops. I would presume of greed since that is associated with knowledge of everything like Echidna, and her book knows everything that she is to do.

Mother would presumably be Satella.

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Futaba Anzu
May 5, 2011

GROSS BOY



Nitrousoxide posted:

I would guess that Beatrice is one of the witch archbishops. I would presume of greed since that is associated with knowledge of everything like Echidna, and her book knows everything that she is to do.

Mother would presumably be Satella.


wouldn't mom just be greed in that case? also i just realized those are butterflies in her eyes because that's greed's visual motif lol

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