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Paracelsus
Apr 5, 2009

bless this post ~kya


HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:

The general people hate her because half-elves look like the witches right? I doubt most people have straight up seen a picture of Satella themselves. But uh, if that's accurate, that does explain Echidna using the trials to screw with Emilia.

IIRC Satella is also known for having silver hair.

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Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:

The general people hate her because half-elves look like the witches right? I doubt most people have straight up seen a picture of Satella themselves. But uh, if that's accurate, that does explain Echidna using the trials to screw with Emilia.

Satella specifically was a silver-haired half-elf, so people fear/hate half-elves in general and silver-haired half-elves in particular.

And this is on top of the discrimination demihumans already face as a consequence of the Demihuman War that happened not that long ago (the one we saw from Wilhelm's backstory).

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?




Yeah but, so does Echidna. Echidna just looks like evil Emilia with white extra bushy eyelashes.

Nitrousoxide
May 30, 2011

do not buy a oneplus phone





HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:

Yeah but, so does Echidna. Echidna just looks like evil Emilia with white extra bushy eyelashes.

Emelia looks exactly like Satella.

Like, if you were to place a picture of the two of them side by side you would probably not be able to tell them apart.

Nitrousoxide fucked around with this message at 19:02 on Aug 27, 2020

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:

Yeah but, so does Echidna. Echidna just looks like evil Emilia with white extra bushy eyelashes.

Echidna is a pale silver-haired human with dark eyes.

Maxwell Adams
Oct 21, 2000

T E E F S

AnoHito posted:

Pretty sure the trials are generally the same for everyone: "Face the worst part of your past (and presumably present and future)"

I think Emilia's past is just more painful than most.

Roswhaals memories must be the worst. Didn't he get his injuries after attempting the trial?

Nitrousoxide
May 30, 2011

do not buy a oneplus phone





Maxwell Adams posted:

Roswhaals memories must be the worst. Didn't he get his injuries after attempting the trial?

He was injured because he was not allowed to participate in the trial.

Sazabi
Feb 15, 2014

A-MA-ZON!!

8 EP in and he finally gets a break. Worst yet is we don't even know if this will be the final run. Every ep makes me sympathize with Grouchio's impatience.

Tabletops
Jan 27, 2014

anime

AnoHito posted:

Pretty sure the trials are generally the same for everyone: "Face the worst part of your past (and presumably present and future)"

I think Emilia's past is just more painful than most.

She's probably less equipped to handle them also. Being like 7 years old or whatever mentally.

thechosenone
Mar 20, 2009


When is this stated, and why? I was aware of this only vaguely (and I really don't know why they had to make this the case).

Rudoku
Jun 15, 2003

Damn I need a drink...




Tabletops posted:

She's probably less equipped to handle them also.

She had to watch the Re:Zero movie and was traumatized by boredom.

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010

USNews: Biden approves $735M weapons sale to Israel


College Slice

thechosenone posted:

When is this stated, and why? I was aware of this only vaguely (and I really don't know why they had to make this the case).

Yeah there's a lot of posts that feel like information that didn't come from the anime, can people be more careful?

Nitrousoxide
May 30, 2011

do not buy a oneplus phone





Tabletops posted:

She's probably less equipped to handle them also. Being like 7 years old or whatever mentally.

Was this something from the movie? I don't remember anything like this coming up in the show so far.

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?




Conspiratiorist posted:

Echidna is a pale silver-haired human with dark eyes.

See, I thought witches were their own thing, neither humans or half-elves or whatever, and the discrimination against Emilia was because half-elves looked like them.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:

See, I thought witches were their own thing, neither humans or half-elves or whatever, and the discrimination against Emilia was because half-elves looked like them.

Naw, the Witch of Envy being a silver-haired half-elf is something that's brought up multiple times, which implies "witch" isn't a race itself.

Then we meet Echidna who is a witch and doesn't have pointy ears, and Ryuzu who is a half-elf and doesn't have silver hair.

Tabletops
Jan 27, 2014

anime

Nitrousoxide posted:

Was this something from the movie? I don't remember anything like this coming up in the show so far.

Ya the movie sorry. I didn't think it was off limits?

Annointed
Mar 2, 2013



https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=YsMkk0ntZJA

Vincent Van Goatse
Nov 8, 2006
I ran crying to the mods because someone bought me a title with naughty words in it. (twice!)
I am the world's softest bitch and you you should remind me of it forever. If this text is gone it's because I couldn't handle being a fucking loser.


Smellrose

AnoHito posted:

Pretty sure the trials are generally the same for everyone: "Face the worst part of your past (and presumably present and future)"

I think Emilia's past is just more painful than most.

The fact she cries out for Subaru while saying she's sorry whenever she wakes from the trial makes me think it has something to do with the last plot arc.

Mordja
Apr 26, 2014




Hell Gem

Nitrousoxide posted:

Was this something from the movie? I don't remember anything like this coming up in the show so far.

Tabletops posted:

Ya the movie sorry. I didn't think it was off limits?
I mean she had anime amnesia in the movie and couldn't remember anything that happened 7 years ago, that doesn't mean that she started from scratch mentally.

HppyCmpr
May 8, 2011


I've got a few theories and observations after this episode but I'll spoiler them for good measure and hopefully Grouchio won't confirm or deny anything.

I'll state I haven't read any of the books or any other sources online; just watched the show and OVAs.



- Echnida is the witch of greed, knowledge being the topic specifically. So I'd assume that Beatrice was created by her and when she refers to her mother she's talking about her. She resides in a library of forbidden knowledge afterall. I'm guessing the contract is with Roswall because of his fondness of Echnida. I'd imagine that gospel she had was one of the "failed" ones created by Echnida and given to Beatrice.

- We saw the White Whale last season and it consumed people and multiplied. So this season we're getting white rabits that eat people and multiply. Potentially related to Gluttony and Pride again; maybe another one of their pets. If so does that mean the whole of Roswalls domain is under attack again? That'll be a big task if that's the case.

- It was interesting to hear Echnida say to Subaru she "understood" what it was like to die and come back to life. I'm guessing that's a reference to how Satella stole hers and the other witches power and how she ended up there. While there was a lot of relief for Subaru in the final scene there was definetly an element of menace hanging over Echnida. I doubt she's actually as selfless as she seems comforting him and more driven by her need for knowledge.



I've struggled to guess where this show has gone in the past though so there's a decent chance I'm completely off base.

Nitrousoxide
May 30, 2011

do not buy a oneplus phone





Tabletops posted:

Ya the movie sorry. I didn't think it was off limits?

It's not off limits I don't think. I just haven't seen it.

Yak of Wrath
Feb 24, 2011

Keeping It Together


My speculation on Sanctuary is that it is a honey pot trap to find a host for Echidna's soul. Sanctuary allows entry and traps those with baseline potential, and the trials are Echidna rummaging through your memories and taking you for a test drive.

egg tats
Apr 3, 2010


Vincent Van Goatse posted:

The fact she cries out for Subaru while saying she's sorry whenever she wakes from the trial makes me think it has something to do with the last plot arc.

we know Echidna's been watching Subaru, and that she's aware of the time loops from his point of view

I'm just assuming that she's seeing all the times Puck killed him last season

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010

USNews: Biden approves $735M weapons sale to Israel


College Slice

I think it's probably too soon for Emilia to get that information just yet, even in context of a nightmare. I think she was only crying out for Subaru after already failing and in the process of waking up.

Mindblast
Jun 28, 2006

Moving at the speed of death.




Vincent Van Goatse posted:

The fact she cries out for Subaru while saying she's sorry whenever she wakes from the trial makes me think it has something to do with the last plot arc.

Assuming the trial works the same for all participants, odds are she's reliving something from way before Subaru showed up.

Sankara
Jul 18, 2008




Gotta say, I've lost the plot. No idea what's happening. Glad Subaru got himself a therapist, though!

Kung Food
Dec 11, 2006

PORN WIZARD

This episode was a pretty big info dump!

We learned that there is a book of true prophecy that exists, and that Roswaal has knowledge of its contents. We also learned that Subaru is part of this prophecy as "That person" and is important enough that the normally aloof Beatrice will become his ally. Based on her personality this seem like a kinda big deal. We already know she would hardcore fight Roswaal and the rest of the house over a simple promise to protect Subaru, so being ally status seems huge.
My predictions:
*This confirms that Roswaal is all about that long term planning and explains why his plans included a weirdly dressed goofy gently caress up who showed up out of no where. It is why he was so calm when he explained that Subaru would make everything work just for Emilia's sake. This seemed stupid at the time but makes sense if it is based on prophecy.
*The nature of the save points is based on this book. Subaru just bungles his way though a bunch of timelines until the results match what is in the book. Then a save point is established. That might mean there is no 'bad save' where he hosed up enough that he can't fix a truly bad result. It also might mean that he really doesn't have that much control over the final timeline and is just doing what the prophecy wants. This would also mean that his actions might be for a greater evil if that is the ultimate goal of the prophecy.
*Roswaal doesn't know the exact mechanics of return by death, but he does know the final result from the gospel and that is what he bases his plans on. He always gives a knowing smile when Subaru talks about things he normally shouldn't have any knowledge of.
*Beatrice's mother is the witch of envy, and she works toward whatever her master plan is based on her gospel.
*The new OP gave us a glimpse of the witch of envy. (1:59 of this episode on crunchyroll)


Also can we talk about how awful the existence of Subaru is? The anime doesn't convey it that well, but in the LN is explains that there is no gap between horrific death and reset. That his dying is just as traumatic as regular dying even though he knows he reincarnates. He went from slowly ripped apart by bunnies to laying next to Emilia as on one uninterrupted chain of events.

Wicked Them Beats
Apr 1, 2007



How many times has Subaru died so far? I'm sure there's an obsessive nerd keeping a tally somewhere.

He's keeping it together surprisingly well, only had two or three breakdowns.

AnoHito
May 8, 2014



Kung Food posted:

Also can we talk about how awful the existence of Subaru is? The anime doesn't convey it that well, but in the LN is explains that there is no gap between horrific death and reset. That his dying is just as traumatic as regular dying even though he knows he reincarnates. He went from slowly ripped apart by bunnies to laying next to Emilia as on one uninterrupted chain of events.

I really like this part if the show. It does a pretty great job of framing the deaths as a horrific thing that he would never take lightly. It stands out really well in the few instances where he kills himself, and you see the huge amount of hesitation, where even though he knows he's going to come back, he's fighting against every last instinct he has when he does it.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


Sankara posted:

Gotta say, I've lost the plot. No idea what's happening. Glad Subaru got himself a therapist, though!

Ongoing threads:

- "Someone" ordered Frederica to give her necklace to Emilia, which was loaded with a teleport trap that'd automatically transport the wearer near Echidna's temple upon approaching Sanctuary.
- Sanctuary is surrounded by a magical barrier that prevents halves from leaving. As Emilia is a half, she would have invariably gotten stuck inside had she been wearing the necklace. Otto continued on with the carriage so she still entered regardless, but the fact the trap existed in the first place is troubling.
- "Someone" hired Elsa and an unseen associate (who is able to control mabeasts?) to attack the Mathers' mansion upon Subaru returning, specifying timeframe for his return and that the only others present would be "two maids and a shut-in". I'll add it was never revealed who hired Elsa to assassinate Emilia in the capital during the first story arc, either.
- The inhabitants of Sanctuary (or at least, the faction that includes village elder Ryuzu and her young enforcer Garfield) wish for someone to complete the Trials in order to lift the barrier. To force the issue, they've taken the Irlam village refugees hostage.
- Roswaal, who is the most powerful mage in the kingdom but was absent during the witch cult's attack on his own domain, arrives at Sanctuary and attempts the Trials to free the villagers, ending up incapacitated due to being rejected as a candidate.
- I'll add here that when Roswaal departed the capital with Emilia and Ram, he left Rem with instructions authorizing her to negotiate mining rights for the magic stones in the Mathers' domain should Subaru seek an alliance with the Crusch camp. Subaru tells him off on all of this, to which he reacts impassively.
- Roswaal proposes instead that Emilia undergo the trials once she arrives, knowing she'd be qualified for it. Despite having gone so far as to take hostages to get the barrier lifted, Ryuzu and Garfield agree with him on that, and although they don't trust him they don't wish to antagonize him.
- Garfield, normally antagonistic to outsiders as a baseline, completely loses trust in Subaru once he starts looping since like Rem he's able to detect the Witch Miasma. Convinced he's a cultist, and unsure what his goals are or who he's working with, Ryuzu and Garfield decide the safest option is to detain him once they learn he's able to undergo the Trials.
- According to Roswaal, Beatrice has a book that is *like* the Gospel of the Witch Cult (known for apparently driving people insane and turning them into cultists), but is actually a superior version that tells the "True" future. I'll note here that Betelgeuse was very surprised whenever Subaru showed up because he wasn't "mentioned in his Gospel".
- Beatrice has been repeatedly and heavily implied to be a Spirit at this point, with Roswaal affirming that she'll assist Subaru should he say the right words.
- It appears that at some point, in Subaru's absence, events will unfold that envelop Sanctuary in out-of-season snow, as well as the appearance of voracious killer rabbits. The first is reminiscent of Puck's actions should Emilia perish, while the second appear to be a type of mabeast (note the small horn) as well as bearing a symbol similar to the White Whale's "halo".
- Also, according to Echidna, Subaru is compatible with and ended up absorbing Betelgeuse's "Witch Factor" upon slaying him, which would ordinarily run the risk of unraveling his soul but she's helped stabilize him.

I believe the standout piece of info here is the apparent existence of a prophetic book that both the Witch Cult and Beatrice have access to, given the many, many, many implications that has on the entire story both so far and moving forward.

Conspiratiorist fucked around with this message at 20:58 on Aug 28, 2020

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012


Conspiratiorist posted:

, specifying timeframe for his return and that only Subaru, Frederica and Petra would be the ones present.

I think she stated the only ones who were supposed to be present when she attacked would be two maids and a shut-in. And shut-in best describes Beatrice as Subaru has never acted like a shut-in in this world. It would explain why Elsa opened all of the doors.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


MonsterEnvy posted:

I think she stated the only ones who were supposed to be present when she attacked would be two maids and a shut-in. And shut-in best describes Beatrice as Subaru has never acted like a shut-in in this world. It would explain why Elsa opened all of the doors.

Ah, very true about the shut-in part.

Wicked Them Beats posted:

How many times has Subaru died so far? I'm sure there's an obsessive nerd keeping a tally somewhere.

He's keeping it together surprisingly well, only had two or three breakdowns.

Hey, the S1 BD volumes even keep track of it!

Arc 1:
- Death by Elsa
- Death by Elsa
- Death by street thug

Arc 2:
- Death by curse
- Cursed, but killed off by Rem
- Pursued by Rem, finished off by Ram
- Suicide

Arc 3:
- Death by Puck
- Death by Puck
- Death by Puck
- Assisted suicide by Felis

Arc 4 (current):
- Suicide
- Death by Elsa
- Death by Elsa
- Devoured live by killer rabbits in the most gruesome death so far

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012


Elsa is winning so far.

Natural 20
Sep 17, 2007

So long, Ex-Ma Fergie!


Elsa taking the lead again after a spirited performance by Puck in Arc 3.

Sindai
Jan 24, 2007
i want to achieve immortality through not dying

Sankara posted:

Gotta say, I've lost the plot. No idea what's happening. Glad Subaru got himself a therapist, though!
You're not the only one. I don't enjoy this show nearly as much as I should because other than the first one every arc has pretty much lost me 2 or 3 deaths in.

Hogama
Sep 3, 2011


Basic set-up never changes in individual arcs, complications just keep getting piled on while Subaru tries to figure things out. His actions and demeanor affect how people react to him, but nothing on a "failed" timeline has any real lasting effects except for populating Subaru's memories (and potentially those existing outside of time like Echidna). A good supercut of just the "true timeline" might help keep things straight for the plot, though obviously we can't do that for Arc 4 until next year.

It's amusing to remember, for instance, that Emilia's first meeting with Subaru (from her perspective) involves finding him together with the thief who stole her insignia and then nearly as suddenly as they met he's calling Puck by name to protect her from a surprise Elsa attack.

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

0.000% of Communism has been built. Evil child-murdering billionaires still rule the world with a shit-eating grin.

This series is one of the few that I've read that is heavily dependent upon its mysteries/reveals, but where those mysteries/reveals end up being completely satisfying and making perfect sense. It's interesting reading peoples' predictions.

I need to watch the rabbit episode; in the WN the description of it was particularly disturbing and gruesome because it's from his perspective with his internal narration about how it feels. Looking forward to when Subaru is killed by scaphism or something in a future arc.

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010

USNews: Biden approves $735M weapons sale to Israel


College Slice

Conspiratiorist posted:

Ongoing threads:

- Also, according to Echidna, Subaru is compatible with and ended up absorbing Betelgeuse's "Witch Factor" upon slaying him, which would ordinarily run the risk of unraveling his soul but she's helped stabilize him.

IIRC it's actually the Sloth factor that's stabilizing him isn't it? Echidna is maybe pressing buttons to make it more effective.

LostRook
Jun 7, 2013


Something fun to note is that we've previously heard the name Hoshin from Garfiel's idiom in this episode. It happens to be the same last name of Anastasia Hoshin, one of the candidates to be king.

While some of his sayings are nonsense, some actually are drawn from the lore.

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Vincent Van Goatse
Nov 8, 2006
I ran crying to the mods because someone bought me a title with naughty words in it. (twice!)
I am the world's softest bitch and you you should remind me of it forever. If this text is gone it's because I couldn't handle being a fucking loser.


Smellrose

LostRook posted:

Something fun to note is that we've previously heard the name Hoshin from Garfiel's idiom in this episode. It happens to be the same last name of Anastasia Hoshin, one of the candidates to be king.

While some of his sayings are nonsense, some actually are drawn from the lore.

I'm pretty sure everything he says is actually lore of some sort, we (Subaru and the anime audience, dunno about the LN) just aren't privy to the details.

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