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sirtommygunn
Mar 7, 2013





Gotta say, I did not appreciate the bondage vore child.

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thechosenone
Mar 20, 2009


sirtommygunn posted:

Gotta say, I did not appreciate the bondage vore child.



Really the best end needs to bring her hunger down to just "must eat ALL the candy" so she can just have the munchies in peace.

Hogama
Sep 3, 2011


Dzhay posted:

I'm glad to see that not all the other witches were blameless good guys unfairly villainised by history. Grey-goo-bunny witch was probably more of a threat than whatever Satella did.
I've gotten fey vibes from Echidna this whole time and the others aren't really doing anything that makes me think they're different.
Assume the witches are simply telling the truth. Echidna has already said (without specifics) that she's done things she regrets in her greedy pursuit for all the knowledge of the world.
Daphne apparently created beasts to "save the world from starvation"; of both the White Whale and the Great Rabbit, she asks about whether they couldn't feed a lot of people. But also that it's selfish to eat without considering that you could be eaten as well. Still, she's not at all concerned about the possibility of their destruction, either. (I also note that the Black Serpent has yet to be defined.)

It seems like dealing with them is always going to be skewed by their nature, and that any gift comes with a price, so I think it's entirely possible that they largely don't act out of malice, but if you think about how the avatar of limitless appetite is going to come up with solutions to world hunger, it's probably never going to go as well as you might hope. In the same vein, asking Echidna for the knowledge to bring the current troubles to an end (particularly when she knows about Return by Death) is probably going to have further consequences to satisfy her greed, but she can still be sincere when she states a desire to help and that it feels nice to be depended on.


Speaking of witches, I'm fairly certain Envy's shown up because Subaru was talking about Return by Death so freely. There wasn't a hint of her stopping him while he was at the tea party, but that seems to be some kind of soul/mind dimension where she might not be ABLE to affect him, so... Flood of Shadows in the real world it is, then.

Since we also haven't yet met the other two witches, and there's talk of a third tea party, I assume that's when Subaru will be meeting them. Chekhov's Witches.


As for the post-credits, Roswaal having his own book was definitely set up. Given he specifically knew about Beatrice's copy and that it's apparently one of TWO copies of a "magical text that tells the true future" (bold emphasis mine) that're the closest to "Tome of Wisdom", it only makes sense that he'd have the other one if not the true Tome of Wisdom. That he calls the Gospels "defective versions" also implies that neither Roswaal or Beatrice are actually part of the Cult. So... Roswaal tells Subaru not to make mistakes next time and has a magical text that tells the future. Presumably he knows that Subaru can loop through time, if only because he knows when events DON'T match what's in the book (I bolded the true part because that says to me that it's not likely to have the details of every failed timeline). That certainly explains his faith in Subaru. I remember that Betelgeuse said that his Gospel didn't mention Subaru, so either what's written is excessively vague or it's just the limitations of being a defective copy. Beatrice pokes some holes in my theory though: she does some things in failed loops that she doesn't in the "Real" timeline, which wouldn't work if her book can't see what happens in failed timelines. Unless she's just lying about following what's written in the book, I dunno. I guess some questions then are: "Where's the Tome of Wisdom (and who owns it)", "What's written in Roswaal and Beatrice's books", "Why do any of them have these books," and "Why do the Archbishops have defective versions?"

Annointed
Mar 2, 2013



Minerva is straight up a Shonen Magical Girl.

Hogama
Sep 3, 2011


Minerva mains Healer and this is why she is the Witch of Wrath.

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?




Hogama posted:

I'm fairly certain Envy's shown up because Subaru was talking about Return by Death so freely. There wasn't a hint of her stopping him while he was at the tea party, but that seems to be some kind of soul/mind dimension where she might not be ABLE to affect him, so... Flood of Shadows in the real world it is, then.

Nah, she's here because of the handkerchief and is going after Petra. It's bait, placed by Echidna, but I'm not sure why. Some kind of info probably, Satella's motivations?

Somebody fucked around with this message at 04:12 on Sep 3, 2020

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


Maybe it turns out really bad things happen when Subaru isn't there to give Emilia a hug when she first fails the Trial.

Not Keyser Soze
Mar 7, 2007

Endless Celestial Sex

There's some old adage about never saying "thank you" to one of the fey, as the words themselves indicate acceptance of an agreement so if you're not careful you've just made a contract without setting the terms.

Regarding the episode (which felt about 5 minutes long) I interpreted the ending that while being stuck in Tea Time Subaru didn't rouse Emilia when she was in distress and/or somehow she hosed up the trial so badly that she went full speed into a host for Satella.

Paracelsus
Apr 5, 2009

bless this post ~kya


Man I sure do hate all these filler episodes where absolutely nothing happens.

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010

USNews: Biden approves $735M weapons sale to Israel


College Slice

My guess about what happened with Emilia is: Her seeing Subaru unconscious (and injured) set her off, which maybe because of some other circumstance we don't know about allowed her to become an imperfect vessel for Satella

Elephant Parade
Jan 20, 2018



Kingnothing posted:

I have a feeling none of the witches are blameless good guys. Especially echidna. There’s so pretty clear red flags that show she’s not to be trusted at all. Especially her last words to baru and that face she made at the end.
sure, she's kind of shady, but what has she done that we've seen other than help Subaru overcome personal trauma and save his soul from getting broken? as it stands, she's very much a benevolent figure--that could change, and it's entirely possible that she did something awful in life (the general theme with the witches seems to be "good intentions gone terribly wrong", going by Typhon attempting to show Subaru is a good person by breaking him into a million pieces and Daphne trying to solve world hunger via horrible man-eating monsters), but she doesn't seem evil

Pilfered Pallbearers
Aug 2, 2007




Elephant Parade posted:

sure, she's kind of shady, but what has she done that we've seen other than help Subaru overcome personal trauma and save his soul from getting broken? as it stands, she's very much a benevolent figure--that could change, and it's entirely possible that she did something awful in life (the general theme with the witches seems to be "good intentions gone terribly wrong", going by Typhon attempting to show Subaru is a good person by breaking him into a million pieces and Daphne trying to solve world hunger via horrible man-eating monsters), but she doesn't seem evil

I mean by that logic, Satella is good because she gave Subaru return by death.

This show has proven to us time and time again that just because someone is helping Subaru in the moment doesn’t mean they’re actually helping Subaru in the long run.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


Satella just loves Subaru so much she gave him unlimited continues.

It's his own fault he gets his rear end killed over and over and over and over and over and over again.

A big flaming stink
Apr 26, 2010


judging from that one shot of the black tendrils reaching into the tea party but dissipating, i think it's quite likely satella got really, really, really, really, REALLY loving mad about subaru casually blabbing about return by death.

on another note, garf is suddenly extremely willing to risk his life to save a supposed witch cultist. i can't imagine subaru smells particularly good right now either.

Elephant Parade posted:

sure, she's kind of shady, but what has she done that we've seen other than help Subaru overcome personal trauma and save his soul from getting broken? as it stands, she's very much a benevolent figure--that could change, and it's entirely possible that she did something awful in life (the general theme with the witches seems to be "good intentions gone terribly wrong", going by Typhon attempting to show Subaru is a good person by breaking him into a million pieces and Daphne trying to solve world hunger via horrible man-eating monsters), but she doesn't seem evil

along similar lines, theres literally zero chance that echidna didnt know that subaru blabbing about rbd would piss off satella to high heaven.

A big flaming stink fucked around with this message at 03:43 on Sep 3, 2020

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012


A big flaming stink posted:


on another note, garf is suddenly extremely willing to risk his life to save a supposed witch cultist. i can't imagine subaru smells particularly good right now either.

Garf did not think he was a Witch Cultist until he came back from the trial. (After his first return by death.) I imagine all of the other Witch Misasma like the Witch herself is covering Subaru's scent up.

Elephant Parade posted:

sure, she's kind of shady, but what has she done that we've seen other than help Subaru overcome personal trauma and save his soul from getting broken? as it stands, she's very much a benevolent figure--that could change, and it's entirely possible that she did something awful in life (the general theme with the witches seems to be "good intentions gone terribly wrong", going by Typhon attempting to show Subaru is a good person by breaking him into a million pieces and Daphne trying to solve world hunger via horrible man-eating monsters), but she doesn't seem evil

For Typhon it seemed to be "You don't feel any pain so you must be a good person." and then "Your sins are breaking you apart so you feel guilty despite not being a bad person."

So I guess if person is bad they will feel pain, and if they feel guilty about their sins then they break apart.

Raxivace
Sep 9, 2014



Yo where the heck is Puck?

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012


Raxivace posted:

Yo where the heck is Puck?

Emilia has been wondering that and calling for him.

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010

USNews: Biden approves $735M weapons sale to Israel


College Slice

A big flaming stink posted:

judging from that one shot of the black tendrils reaching into the tea party but dissipating, i think it's quite likely satella got really, really, really, really, REALLY loving mad about subaru casually blabbing about return by death.

When was this again?

But yeah that's an interesting note on Garfield.

Zetsubou-san
Jan 28, 2015

Cruel Bifaunidas demanded that you [stand], I require only that you [kneel]


suburu's real popular today

and goddammit Roswell, acting all cool and poo poo as you sink into inky nothingness while spouting the most infuriating line that's come out of your smug mouth yet

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination


Zetsubou-san posted:

suburu's real popular today

and goddammit Roswell, acting all cool and poo poo as you sink into inky nothingness while spouting the most infuriating line that's come out of your smug mouth yet

get good son!

A big flaming stink
Apr 26, 2010


Raenir Salazar posted:

When was this again?

But yeah that's an interesting note on Garfield.

on the 2:25 mark

Elephant Parade
Jan 20, 2018



Kingnothing posted:

I mean by that logic, Satella is good because she gave Subaru return by death.

This show has proven to us time and time again that just because someone is helping Subaru in the moment doesn’t mean they’re actually helping Subaru in the long run.
no, because Return by Death is a very nasty "gift" that broke Subaru apart, whereas Echidna put him back together again. The self-destructive nature of Return by Death has left Satella a murky figure from the start; Echidna hasn't done anything similar.

Elephant Parade
Jan 20, 2018



A big flaming stink posted:

judging from that one shot of the black tendrils reaching into the tea party but dissipating, i think it's quite likely satella got really, really, really, really, REALLY loving mad about subaru casually blabbing about return by death.

on another note, garf is suddenly extremely willing to risk his life to save a supposed witch cultist. i can't imagine subaru smells particularly good right now either.


along similar lines, theres literally zero chance that echidna didnt know that subaru blabbing about rbd would piss off satella to high heaven.
idk, it's possible that without being woken up by subaru, emilia got so hosed up the witch was able to take her over, and subaru spilling the beans had little or nothing to do with it. this is our first time seeing what happens when subaru doesn't wake emilia up (and only the aftermath, at that) so it's hard to say.

also if subaru hadn't told echidna he probably would've fully broken down, so it's not like she had much choice

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010

USNews: Biden approves $735M weapons sale to Israel


College Slice

A big flaming stink posted:

on the 2:25 mark

Hrm, I had figured that was more Subaru remembering what it felt like.

Mindblast
Jun 28, 2006

Moving at the speed of death.




Elephant Parade posted:

idk, it's possible that without being woken up by subaru, emilia got so hosed up the witch was able to take her over, and subaru spilling the beans had little or nothing to do with it. this is our first time seeing what happens when subaru doesn't wake emilia up (and only the aftermath, at that) so it's hard to say.

also if subaru hadn't told echidna he probably would've fully broken down, so it's not like she had much choice

Alternatively: when he normally tries to talk about return by death he immediately gets halted and if he presses on the curse immediately begins to murder.

Just how many times did he confess to Echidna without anyone being able to silence him? He may have supercharged the spell effect.

AnoHito
May 8, 2014



Elephant Parade posted:

no, because Return by Death is a very nasty "gift" that broke Subaru apart, whereas Echidna put him back together again. The self-destructive nature of Return by Death has left Satella a murky figure from the start; Echidna hasn't done anything similar.

I mean, without it he’d just be dead, and I don’t think that Subaru is so suicidal that he’d prefer death to the current situation.

Wark Say
Feb 22, 2013

WELCOME TO THE DUNGEON

The return of the Rie Takahashi's ASMR Extravaganza?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqPSh-2Qb30

dipwood
Feb 21, 2004

rouge means red in french

You'd think at this point Subaru would have some sort of auto-suicide device on tap to expedite the process. Even when he does it voluntarily, he's using a knife which can't be too pleasant.

Wicked Them Beats
Apr 1, 2007



He does! Just tell anyone (who isn't a witch (or possibly Roswall???)) that he can Return by Death and Satella will lovingly crush his heart.

Elephant Parade
Jan 20, 2018



Wicked Them Beats posted:

He does! Just tell anyone (who isn't a witch (or possibly Roswall???)) that he can Return by Death and Satella will lovingly crush his heart.
Nope, Satella crushes the heart of the person he tells. At least, that's what happened when he told Emilia.

Wicked Them Beats
Apr 1, 2007



Elephant Parade posted:

Nope, Satella crushes the heart of the person he tells. At least, that's what happened when he told Emilia.

Oh really? I must be misremembering, been awhile since I watched season 1.

Edit: I guess he could tell Emilia and then get immediately killed by whichever of her supporters/retainers witnesses him seemingly murdering Emilia via weird witch magic, but that's probably even more tramautic than just stabbing himself.

Wicked Them Beats fucked around with this message at 15:55 on Sep 3, 2020

M_Gargantua
Oct 16, 2006

STOMPIN' ON INTO THE POWER LINES




Exciting Lemon

Yeah all of those seem way worse than a nice quick stabbing.

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?




I wonder what effect it'd have on someone like Puck.

AnoHito
May 8, 2014



HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:

I wonder what effect it'd have on someone like Puck.

I think there was a Q&A thing where the author said if he tried to tell Reinhard or someone like that the witch would just kill Barusu instead. Of course if Reinhard or someone equivalent were around to listen, he probably wouldn't need to die anyway...

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

0.000% of Communism has been built. Evil child-murdering billionaires still rule the world with a shit-eating grin.

The impression I get about the heart-crushing stuff is that the "can't tell anyone" rule essentially functions intelligently (Satella making the decision of what to do based on the circumstances) rather than using some sort of hard rules that could be exploited.

dipwood posted:

You'd think at this point Subaru would have some sort of auto-suicide device on tap to expedite the process. Even when he does it voluntarily, he's using a knife which can't be too pleasant.

I like how the guy in the web serial Mother of Learning actually does this by putting some sort of explosive around his neck that causes instant death.

Brutal Garcon
Nov 2, 2014



I'm not entirely convinced that the guiding intelligence of Subaru's power (and hence possibly whatever was going on at the end of the last episode) actually is Satella, rather than some semi-autonomous thing she created.

Vincent Van Goatse
Nov 8, 2006

Don't be so gloomy. After all it's not that awful. Like the fella says, in Italy for thirty years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance.


Smellrose

Dzhay posted:

I'm not entirely convinced that the guiding intelligence of Subaru's power (and hence possibly whatever was going on at the end of the last episode) actually is Satella, rather than some semi-autonomous thing she created.

Considering how we know almost nothing specific about what Satella is capable of, power-wise, other than granting Subaru the Return by Death power and telekenetically ganking anyone he tells about it (barring Echidna so far), I'm not sure this is supportable.

Goddamn this franchise is so good. I love that it inspires these kinds of debates.

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012


Remember that Subaru does not want to die. He thinks death is a super horrible thing to go through. He has only killed himself in situations he really wanted to fix, and even then with a good deal of hesitation.

Vincent Van Goatse
Nov 8, 2006

Don't be so gloomy. After all it's not that awful. Like the fella says, in Italy for thirty years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance.


Smellrose

MonsterEnvy posted:

Remember that Subaru does not want to die. He thinks death is a super horrible thing to go through. He has only killed himself in situations he really wanted to fix, and even then with a good deal of hesitation.

That's one of the brilliant things about the story. A less thoughtful author wouldn't include the detail that despite it not technically mattering because Subaru will apparently always respawn, death still loving sucks to experience and because he remembers everything that happens in the failed loops, Subaru is constantly on the verge of a well-earned complete emotional and physical breakdown.

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Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


Okabe had it easy.

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