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runawayturtles
Aug 2, 2004


Nitrousoxide posted:

I think User0015 spent a little bit too much time in the whale mist

I'm pretty much in the same boat now, having just caught up on the current season. I felt lost a bunch of times in part 1 and again in part 2, most recently when Regulus showed up in the flashback and he seemed really familiar but I couldn't remember why. So then I also couldn't remember if Pandora was previously seen or not.

One of the biggest issues for me is all the related terms like witches, archbishops, apostles, other cultists, witch factors, authorities... multiply that by 7 (9?) and it's a ton of titles being thrown around, with just as many characters and motivations to keep track of over long breaks between seasons. Like even just considering a single sin like greed, you've got apostles that are unaffiliated with the archbishop, related characters like Roswaal and Beatrice who are unaffiliated with both, the witch herself, and all of them seem to have different goals... getting hard to wrap my head around. But don't try to google anything or you'll probably be spoiled for the next 3 seasons!

Anyway. I like this show, and I'd like it a lot more if I could keep everything straight.

edit: Welp, what a way to start a page.

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Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

I think most of the terminology is clearer in the LNs where Subaru can either ruminate on a given term for a hot second or even ask for clarification, something that gets lost at times with the show adaption. I didn't understand the "apostles of Greed" in the first half of S2 but having just gone through the books equivalent to that part it wasn't complicated at all, it just wasn't described very well.

Forgetting Regulus is funny just because he's literally the conflict that kicks off the entire season.

Nitrousoxide
May 30, 2011

do not buy a oneplus phone





So, is Emelia having access to that key supposed to be something that we know the reason for at this point? Have I missed something or is this going to be expanded on later, I presume the latter because Pandora said she would be back for it?

With a name like Pandora one has to assume that she will get to open her box at some point here.

Nitrousoxide
May 30, 2011

do not buy a oneplus phone





Double posting like a boss while the forums die

Kung Food
Dec 11, 2006

PORN WIZARD

Nitrousoxide posted:

So, is Emelia having access to that key supposed to be something that we know the reason for at this point? Have I missed something or is this going to be expanded on later, I presume the latter because Pandora said she would be back for it?

With a name like Pandora one has to assume that she will get to open her box at some point here.

We know she has a connection to Satella, who I am assuming is what is sealed away by the scary looking door. I just figured her being the key master had to do with that.

User0015
Nov 24, 2007

Please don't talk about your sexuality unless it serves the ~narrative~!

Grouchio posted:

A very spoilery OP mind you!

Nothing's a spoiler when you don't know what's going on.

Ethiser
Dec 31, 2011



That was a nice flashback, but it would have been nice if it actually explained anything that occurred in it.

I wonder if Echinda and Pandora are related in any way. I think they are the only characters who have those insanely bushy eyelashes.

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012


Nate RFB posted:


Forgetting Regulus is funny just because he's literally the conflict that kicks off the entire season.

This is also kind of funny cause when I read the first part of Arc 4 in the Web Novel Regulus is literally described as someone with a plain and forgettable appearance.

Yawgmoft
Nov 15, 2004


This witch seems like they're so powerful they'd be impossible to defeat.

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012


Yawgmoft posted:

This witch seems like they're so powerful they'd be impossible to defeat.

They seem impossible to kill, but she does not seem to really have any offensive power. I am betting the power has some sort of limit or weakness as well.

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010



College Slice

Speculation:
Since she's the Witch of Vanity. So her powers must have something to do with how people see themselves or others. Which probables makes it powerful, but also very limited once you figure out the rules, ala Jojo Stands. I also imagine her nature as basically a Fey like being means she probably, much like Echidna, cannot act contrary to her nature, even if it is to her disadvantage and vice versa.

Nitrousoxide
May 30, 2011

do not buy a oneplus phone





MonsterEnvy posted:

They seem impossible to kill, but she does not seem to really have any offensive power. I am betting the power has some sort of limit or weakness as well.

Didn't she ground pound regulus?

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012


Nitrousoxide posted:

Didn't she ground pound regulus?

She pushed him into the ground, but it did not hurt him or anything. (Nothing he got hit with hurt him, but he was able to be moved when he was hit and did not expect it.)

Annointed
Mar 2, 2013



Emelia has really won me over with this episode. Her resolve makes me want to root for her. Also

Pandora must have limits. No way if she wanted the key that badly that she wouldn’t have just forced Emelia to open the gate. It could be like some fundamental force or rule that prevents her from doing what she wants. Also drat what a twisted monster gaslighting Betelgeuse into becoming another tool for her own ends.

Blaze Dragon
Aug 28, 2013
LOWTAX'S SPINE FUND



Annointed posted:

Pandora must have limits. No way if she wanted the key that badly that she wouldn’t have just forced Emelia to open the gate. It could be like some fundamental force or rule that prevents her from doing what she wants. Also drat what a twisted monster gaslighting Betelgeuse into becoming another tool for her own ends.

Either you or I are misunderstanding the mechanics of the key here because I had a completely different interpretation of why Pandora doesn't open the door herself. I thought she genuinely couldn't, but not because of any mythical thing binding her, rather, it's the fact that Emilia is the only one that can do it. The key isn't invisible - it has no physical form. The only one that can create and interact with it is Emilia. There's no way to force her to open the door, because you can't just steal the key that exists for one person alone.

Pandora tried everything in her power to convince Emilia (twisted as every single method was) because that was the one and only way to get what she wanted. And once it was clear she couldn't do anything, she left, making sure Emilia would forget her because otherwise the next time she tried, it'd just be a repeat of this one.

Overlord K
Jun 14, 2009


It's really weird to get all this backstory for Geuse after S1 is long since over.

Gonna make the rewatch someday have a lot more weight to that part of it.

Raxivace
Sep 9, 2014



Yeah I've been wondering what exactly the point of getting more Geuse in this backstory is supposed to be. Like none of it is outright bad or anything, but I'm not sure it really deepens my understanding of his character or Emilia's or anyone else's to any significant degree.

Raxivace fucked around with this message at 13:14 on Feb 11, 2021

Brutal Garcon
Nov 2, 2014



There's also plot (or at least relevant backstory) in this week's Break Time, so don't skip that if you usually do.

On Regulus and Pandora: they're puzzle bosses, like 'Guese was. I expect once we know why they don't die when they're killed, neutralising them will be (fairly) straightforward - if that's even something that needs to happen.

Speculation: Regulus seems to have two layers of bullshit: some attacks seemed to hit a force-field thing in front of him, but also he regenerated a broken neck when one attack did get through.

Pandora's theme is "vanity" so whatever she has probably matches that. Maybe she can't be changed? Would explain why she still looks like a child - she's stuck with whatever form she had when she got the power. It doesn't explain what she did to Regulus, or the mind powers she used on Emilia, but a person can have more than one trick.

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010



College Slice

Overlord K posted:

It's really weird to get all this backstory for Geuse after S1 is long since over.

Gonna make the rewatch someday have a lot more weight to that part of it.

More about getting us the audience to recontextualize it and feel sad at the tragedy of it all I imagine, because otherwise Geuse would've been helping Emilia instead.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


The Authority of Sloth was also apparently entrusted to Petelgeuse by Flügel, so I suspect we'll be seeing more of him when the story begins to more directly address the matter of the Witch of Envy.

Wollawolla
Jan 15, 2007

Are you gonna smash my skull and breathe my blood-mist?


Brutal Garcon posted:

There's also plot (or at least relevant backstory) in this week's Break Time, so don't skip that if you usually do.

Where does this stream?

LostRook
Jun 7, 2013


Kadokawa has it on their youtube channel, and you can check the comments for translation or you can look up a youtuber channel called Hachiman which has a subtitled version.

AlternateNu
May 5, 2005

"すやぁ~じゃなくて!"



LostRook posted:

Kadokawa has it on their youtube channel, and you can check the comments for translation or you can look up a youtuber channel called Hachiman which has a subtitled version.

Yeah. They show a lot of interesting interactions between the characters that's left out of the series proper. Like last week's gives insight into Beactrice's and Geuse's relationship. It's also super cute.

Nitrousoxide
May 30, 2011

do not buy a oneplus phone





I'm not going to spoiler this since I've not read the novels and it's pure speculation from me, but I bet Pandora's power comes from her absolute conviction about the state of the world. You see a bit of it when she sends Regulus off. She simply states that he is, in fact, not here but back at his home, and that simply is the case. Whatever she believes the world to be, IS. So if she believes herself to be whole and unharmed, no matter how much damage is applied to her, she will simply remain unharmed.

To defeat her you must convince her that she is injured, killed, or convince her that she is trapped and unable to escape. If she believes it, she will be.

It fits with the vice of Vanity as well since it puts he belief about the world above anything else. She becomes the most important being.

Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.


So she's Evil Haruhi? :haw:

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010



College Slice

I fully expect to see the Abridged series make a Seto Kaiba reference with her, where her ability is "Screw the rules I have money" and defeating her requires making her run out of money.

Tuxedo Catfish posted:

So she's Evil Haruhi? :haw:

I prefer to subscribe to the theory that it was Kyon the entire time :colbert:

AlternateNu
May 5, 2005

"すやぁ~じゃなくて!"



Raenir Salazar posted:

I fully expect to see the Abridged series make a Seto Kaiba reference with her, where her ability is "Screw the rules I have money" and defeating her requires making her run out of money.

Oh god. There's an abridged series? :negative:

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010



College Slice

AlternateNu posted:

Oh god. There's an abridged series? :negative:

I just assume there is one, I don't actually know! :D

Kung Food
Dec 11, 2006

PORN WIZARD

Raenir Salazar posted:

I fully expect to see the Abridged series make a Seto Kaiba reference with her, where her ability is "Screw the rules I have money" and defeating her requires making her run out of money.


I prefer to subscribe to the theory that it was Kyon the entire time :colbert:

Seeing as her sin is vain glory, i guessing its more "Screw the rules Im sexy."

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010



College Slice

Kung Food posted:

Seeing as her sin is vain glory, i guessing its more "Screw the rules Im sexy."

As an interesting aside and minor nitpick, the Witches aren't exactly what their vices imply as we've already seen! So Pandora's "portfolio" so to speak is also not exactly what it seems at face value just like Wrath, etc. Although Gluttony is about right.

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination


I just want to know why echidna and Emilia don't get along ... Sob

Nitrousoxide
May 30, 2011

do not buy a oneplus phone





Satalla killed Echidna and she looks just like Satalla

Rudoku
Jun 15, 2003

Damn I need a drink...




Nitrousoxide posted:

Satalla killed Echidna and she looks just like Satalla

And she thinks Emilia's the reason she can't get in on the Subaru train.

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010



College Slice

Rudoku posted:

And she thinks Emilia's the reason she can't get in on the Subaru train.

I imagine Echidna could easily get on the train as long as she wasn't evil about it. :v:

Grouchio
Aug 31, 2014

*The Entire John Galt Speech*


Raenir Salazar posted:

I imagine Echidna could easily get on the train as long as she wasn't evil about it. :v:
She is not evil as much as her worldview is incompatible with Subaru's at the end of the day. :v:

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010



College Slice

Grouchio posted:

She is not evil as much as her worldview is incompatible with Subaru's at the end of the day. :v:

Relationships are about compromise :shobon:

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

Was Hector voiced by Shinichiro Miki? Certainly sounded like him.

Grouchio
Aug 31, 2014

*The Entire John Galt Speech*


Nate RFB posted:

Was Hector voiced by Shinichiro Miki? Certainly sounded like him.
Ayup. Also, the kissing was from a side story separate from the WN/LN. Kamisama Bress. :3:

Lurking Haro
Oct 27, 2009



Roswaal sure put heavy emphasis on doing his thing for Echidna for 400 years.

-e-

Nate RFB posted:

Was Hector voiced by Shinichiro Miki? Certainly sounded like him.

It's Jun'ichi Suwabe.

-e2-
Echidna stole Dio's first kiss!

Lurking Haro fucked around with this message at 19:37 on Feb 17, 2021

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Nitrousoxide
May 30, 2011

do not buy a oneplus phone





Hector had the same sort of lilt to his voice that modern Roswell has.

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