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Grouchio
Aug 31, 2014

*The Entire John Galt Speech*


A Late Happy Birthday to Natsuki Subaru!

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Paracelsus
Apr 5, 2009

bless this post ~kya


Tuxedo Catfish posted:

I mean... Sauron basically is Satan, right down to being a fallen being of light.

Melkor seems like a better fit, since he was the most powerful Ainur and the one who originally rebelled against Illuvatar. Sauron was just one of his lieutenants.

Beasteh
Feb 12, 2012

I'M QUESTIONING MY EXISTENCE AND THIS IDIOT JUST WANTS TO PEE OFF A WALL



The Memory Snow OVA is out now!

Grouchio
Aug 31, 2014

*The Entire John Galt Speech*


Subs are out for the Memory Snow OVA! As such, we can now discuss this!

pedro0930
Oct 15, 2012


Just finished binging season 1 thanks to Isekai Quartet (sorry), really looking forward to season 2. Though it's hard to imagine how much worse can Subaru suffer. He already died multiple gruesome death, saw everyone he loved killed multiple times and broke down mentally and gave up.

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012


pedro0930 posted:

Just finished binging season 1 thanks to Isekai Quartet (sorry), really looking forward to season 2. Though it's hard to imagine how much worse can Subaru suffer. He already died multiple gruesome death, saw everyone he loved killed multiple times and broke down mentally and gave up.

Well the PV implies some stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCXlrNYghHs

Beasteh
Feb 12, 2012

I'M QUESTIONING MY EXISTENCE AND THIS IDIOT JUST WANTS TO PEE OFF A WALL



The ending of the episode where Subaru gets cursed and wanders the mansion before Rem smashes off the side of his torso + arm before crushing his skull made me sit up and pay attention to the anime, I had only really been half watching it before then. It was brutal

Mordja
Apr 26, 2014



Hell Gem

I also watched season 1 for the first time fairly recently and one thing that really sets it apart from most isekai is that the world actually feels lived in, with its own culture, history and politics. Most series in that genre just treat their settings like a video game, oftentimes even using stats and levels to explain things. And of course since the protaganist is invariably some variant of asocial nerd who knows how to game the system, he becomes some kind of all powerful, wish-fulfillment avatar. Meanwhile, when Subaru tries to treat it like a game he just fucks things up and hurts people.

It's refreshing, is what I'm saying.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


It's because Re:Zero's world is an appropriate setting for a fantasy epic where the protagonist - while important - isn't meant to be the all-encompassing fulcrum of the story, whereas for most modern isekai the setting is just some hackneyed enabler for whatever flavor of wish-fulfillment the author is shooting for.

Clarste
Apr 15, 2013

Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.


After reading far too many isekai stories for my own good, I've come to realize that it's actually a little different from that. It's not just that they're so uncreative that they can't come up with a more interesting setting (not saying they aren't though), but rather that they're intentionally imitating every last little detail of every other isekai story in existence. It almost reminds me of bands playing a cover of another band's song. The point isn't to make something new, but to present something the audience already knows the words to by heart, so they can sing along.

It's certainly a strange phenomenon.

ViggyNash
Oct 9, 2012


Not an uncommon one though. There's always been copycats whenever a classic comes out, and sometimes they turn into permanent genres. It all depends on how strong the foundation is, and unfortunately isekai as a genre has a very strong foundation that highly susceptible to lazy clones. Re:Zero succeeds by not just subverting 1 element of isekai, as your average isekai does, but all of them.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


Clarste posted:

After reading far too many isekai stories for my own good, I've come to realize that it's actually a little different from that. It's not just that they're so uncreative that they can't come up with a more interesting setting (not saying they aren't though), but rather that they're intentionally imitating every last little detail of every other isekai story in existence. It almost reminds me of bands playing a cover of another band's song. The point isn't to make something new, but to present something the audience already knows the words to by heart, so they can sing along.

It's certainly a strange phenomenon.

Oh, I have too, and that's what I meant with "hackneyed enabler"; that it is for the most part intentional doesn't change its nature.

What I find sad, though, is when it's unintentional or forced - you know, those fantasy stories that are clearly trying to be their own thing, but that for no appreciable narrative reason happen to be some flavor of isekai. It's like the incestuous slurry that forms the idea well for Asian light/graphic novel media has become so thick newbie authors can't even tell what's the purpose/reasoning of the subgenre, or that they're so wary or desperate they feel shackled to it.

An example of this is Faraway Paladin, which I find a quite nice story, but the protagonist is reincarnated because... well, just because. He's got only very vague memories of having lived a lonely and lovely life, which sorta serves as a motivation to try and be a better person this time around but... he gets raised by really awesome people, so the prevailing sense throughout is that he turned a great kid because of that nurturing. And he starts over as a baby and doesn't bring any usable knowledge - doesn't even know the language - so it's not following that angle of "I am awesome because I've got the wisdom of a 30yo in a child's body", either. He even reasonably acts his age while growing up.

I had hoped it would all tie up into the various mysteries surrounding his caretakers, but no, it eventually becomes clear he was just some NEET from Japan who got isekai'd after dying. And I'm like "why? even if you wanted to use it as an element to tie it with the wider cosmological aspects of the setting, why does it have to be Japan rather than a soul native to this fantasy world?"

It's baffling.

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

Endorsed by:
Pentecoastal Elites!
fart_man_69!
Terminal autist!
Ruzihm!
Judakel!
Dixon Chisholm!
Nix Panicus!
Neurolimal!

Gonna copy The Hobbit, only with changed names and alt-Bilbo is a reincarnated NEET from Tokyo.

LostRook
Jun 7, 2013


Ytlaya posted:

Gonna copy The Hobbit, only with changed names and alt-Bilbo is a reincarnated NEET from Tokyo.



Need to add a harem or it will never sell.

ninjewtsu
Oct 9, 2012



All of the dwarves are now hot elf babes

Grouchio
Aug 31, 2014

*The Entire John Galt Speech*


I'm sure that Re Zero will live up to it's name as the Evangelion of Isekai, soon enough. Are we in agreement?

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


I thought Re:Zero was the Dark Souls of isekai.

Sindai
Jan 24, 2007
i want to achieve immortality through not dying

Actually it's the Madoka of isekai

EponymousMrYar
Jan 4, 2015

The enemy of my enemy is my enemy.


And the Nethack of Evangelion.

ninjewtsu posted:

All of the dwarves are now hot elf babes

And all the elves are even hotter elf babes.

Argue
Sep 29, 2005

I represent the Philippines

Ytlaya posted:

Gonna copy The Hobbit, only with changed names and alt-Bilbo is a reincarnated NEET from Tokyo.

Just republish LOTR itself but add a prologue where a Japanese teenager is hit by a truck and wakes up as Frodo. The rest of the books can just be published as is.

McTimmy
Feb 29, 2008


Argue posted:

Just republish LOTR itself but add a prologue where a Japanese teenager is hit by a truck and wakes up as Frodo. The rest of the books can just be published as is.

Ridiculous. An isekai protagonist trying to resist the allure of power?

UnfurledSails
Sep 1, 2011



I never thought of it as the Evangelion of Isekai but holy poo poo that's not too far off. I really feel invested in this kind of story where the protag makes bad choices and completely falls apart as a consequence of those choices.

Eej
Jun 17, 2007

HEAVYARMS


i dont think Evangelion invented genre deconstruction

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


UnfurledSails posted:

I never thought of it as the Evangelion of Isekai but holy poo poo that's not too far off. I really feel invested in this kind of story where the protag makes bad choices and completely falls apart as a consequence of those choices.

I mean, if we're going to seriously talk about it, then both Re:Zero and Evangelion are certainly genre deconstructions (modern isekai and super robot shows, respectively), but Shinji and Subaru are nearly diametrically opposed character types whose only overlap is in sharing some common teenage insecurities.

Shinji also starts off and remains a broken person for the entirety of his story (as does most of the Eva cast), the stresses he's put through only serving to highlight his issues, while Re:Zero is a story about growth.

Eej posted:

i dont think Evangelion invented genre deconstruction

Also that, though it did have a big influence on how genre deconstruction is perceived due to its popularity. Nobody talks about Ideon.

Conspiratiorist fucked around with this message at 17:33 on Jul 7, 2019

honkykong
Sep 20, 2005




Just finished rewatching S1 on crustybun and it's just as good as I remember. However unless my memory is failing me (I watched it when it originally aired), did the very end of the last episode cut something out? I thought it ended with who's Rem? but it wasn't there this time around...

LibrarianCroaker
Mar 30, 2010


That was never there.

Grouchio
Aug 31, 2014

*The Entire John Galt Speech*


honkykong posted:

Just finished rewatching S1 on crustybun and it's just as good as I remember. However unless my memory is failing me (I watched it when it originally aired), did the very end of the last episode cut something out? I thought it ended with who's Rem? but it wasn't there this time around...
White Fox chickened out five seconds before the thing was asked. It will be the first scene of season 2.
That or Rem's unexpected encounter

Lotus Aura
Aug 16, 2009

KNEEL BEFORE THE WICKED KING!


To be fair, leaving it out was a good idea when getting a season 2 at all was uncertain (compare almost every other LN anime that does only get 1 season but still leaves in cliffhangers and plot hooks for another season that never happens). It's been like years since then, so it's not exactly unreasonable.

ninjewtsu
Oct 9, 2012



So that re:zero ova has been out for a while, but last I checked the only subs available for it were godawful. Is that still the case?

Blaze Dragon
Aug 28, 2013
LOWTAX'S SPINE FUND



ninjewtsu posted:

So that re:zero ova has been out for a while, but last I checked the only subs available for it were godawful. Is that still the case?

If you mean Memory Snow, no, there's good subs now.

LostRook
Jun 7, 2013


Dragonatrix posted:

To be fair, leaving it out was a good idea when getting a season 2 at all was uncertain (compare almost every other LN anime that does only get 1 season but still leaves in cliffhangers and plot hooks for another season that never happens). It's been like years since then, so it's not exactly unreasonable.

The shows are basically advertisements for the books so it makes sense to do it that way.

Grouchio posted:

White Fox chickened out five seconds before the thing was asked. It will be the first scene of season 2.

I'm guessing we start with the alternate history vignette.

AnoHito
May 8, 2014



LostRook posted:

I'm guessing we start with the alternate history vignette.

I think this would be hideously and, dare I say, unnecessarily cruel!

...they're totally gonna do it, aren't they?

Yinlock
Oct 21, 2008



AnoHito posted:

I think this would be hideously and, dare I say, unnecessarily cruel!

...they're totally gonna do it, aren't they?

"unnecessarily cruel" is basically this series' m.o given that it's borderline torture porn

the borderline is only there because there's actually an interesting story going on when subaru isn't getting tortured to death for the 50th time

ninjewtsu
Oct 9, 2012



I think it'd have to be a bit more cruel before it actually would qualify as "torture porn"

ViggyNash
Oct 9, 2012


I agree that this show sometimes leans into being psychological torture. But straight up torture porn is more Saw/Hostel territory, a far cry from Re:Zero.

Wark Say
Feb 22, 2013

by Fluffdaddy


Someone in another thread mentioned Muv-Luv Alternative, so maybe something akin to "PTSD Simulator" might apply here?

ViggyNash
Oct 9, 2012


Is there a good summary of Muv-luv and Alternative out there? I remember trying to play Muv-luv but got burnt out with how freaking long it is. Never even made it to Alternative, where the supposedly good stuff is.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


Did you make it to Unlimited?

ViggyNash
Oct 9, 2012


I think I made it maybe 5 or 6 hours into the first game? It's been a while since I tried playing it.

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Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


Muv-Luv Extra:
Highschool rom-com (with some drama thrown here and there for good measure) about how the already wacky daily life of highschool senior Shirogane Takeru gets turned upside down when a beautiful and comically wealthy girl transfers to his class appears in his bed in the morning, seemingly intent on marrying him.


Muv-Luv Unlimited:
1958 - The Viking 1 probe reaches Mars and transmits images of creatures assumed to be of Martian origin.
1967 - A geological exploration team from the international lunar base Plato-1 encounters beings identical to the lifeforms discovered on Mars. All contact with the team is lost. The hostile lifeforms are christened "BETA". The First Lunar War begins.
1969 - "The Moon is Hell."
1973 - A BETA landing unit launched from the Moon lands on the Kashgar Autonomous Region in western China, and begins construction of H01 ("Original Hive"). The Moon is abandoned. The joint PLA-RKKA front collapses within a month. Scorched earth tactics with tactical nuclear weapons prove of limited effectiveness. The BETA begin their westward push.
1974 - A second BETA landing unit impacts Athabasca, Canada. Learning from the ongoing conflict in Eurasia, the US military destroys it through concentrated use of strategic nuclear weapons, turning half of Canada into irradiated wasteland. The UN announces the world population has fallen by approximately 30% as a result of the BETA invasion of Earth. The F-4 Phantom, the first Tactical Surface Fighter, enters service.
1978 - Operation Palaiologos. Joint NATO/Warsaw Pact forces attempt to seize H05 (Minks Hive). After two months of fierce fighting, with the combined forces of all Europe acting as a diversion, the Volk Regiment of the Soviet Army 43rd Tactical Armored Division successfully enters the Minks Hive. They're wiped out after a few hours. A massive surge of BETA subsequently annihilates the sieging units, ending the operation. Central Europe is overrun.
1979 - Under UN Security Resolution, the war against the BETA including Hive capture operations are to be conducted under UN leadership.
1982 - The United States Congress approves a 50-year lease of Alaska to the Soviet Union, which soon begins relocation of all industrial assets and population centers.
1983 - The Oder-Neisse line falls and Eastern Germany is annihilated by the BETA. Western Europe becomes a battlefield.
1984 - The Indian subcontinent is abandoned.
1993 - With the collapse of the Northern European front that had continued to resist to the end, the European Union declares a complete withdrawal of all forces. The BETA gain total control over the European continent.
1994 - The UN announces the world population has fallen to approximately 50% of its pre-invasion numbers.
1997 - The Arabian Peninsula front, which had withstood the BETA invasion for over ten years, collapses. The African Union and Middle East Coalition forces retreat beyond the Suez Canal.
1998 - The BETA Invasion of Japan. BETA proceeding east from H16 (Chongqing Hive) make landfall in Japanese territory. 30% (36 million) of the Japanese population is wiped out within a week. Citing a tendency of Japanese forces to disobey orders, the US military unilaterally breaks the Treaty of Mutual Cooperation and Security and withdraws all forces stationed in Japan. BETA groups begin construction of H21 in Sadogashima and H22 in Yokohama.
1999 - Operation Lucifer. The Imperial Japanese Army, the United Nations Joint Force, and the COSEAN military launch the greatest large-scale counteroffensive operation in Asia, second only to Operation Palaiologos in the entirety of the BETA Wars. After 2 days of fierce fighting, and with little warning to allied forces, the US military intervenes by deploying a newly developed WMD, eradicating the surface Yokohama Hive structure and its surrounding BETA. The operation officially ends with the capture of the Yokohama Hive - the first successful Hive capture in human history - and the retaking of Honshu.
2000 - Yokohama Base, hosting the UN 11th Force, commences operation.
2001, October 22 - One "Shirogane Takeru", wearing what was determined to be some kind of counterfeit cadet uniform, is apprehended outside Yokohama Base after failing to provide adequate credentials. Two weeks later he's released on orders of the base XO, who intrigued by his detailed descriptions of a world where the BETA are unknown, arranges his transfer to the 207th Training Unit...


Muv-Luv Alternative:
2001, October 22 - One "Shirogane Takeru" confronts Yokohama Base security and urgently requests to meet with base XO Kouzuki Yuuko regarding "the worst case scenario"...

Conspiratiorist fucked around with this message at 21:26 on Jul 24, 2019

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