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ViggyNash
Oct 9, 2012


I'm so confused

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Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


Muv-Luv is the Starship Troopers of isekai

Captain Invictus
Apr 5, 2005


Clever Betty

Neat (and ridiculous). So that's everything leading up to the series? What happens in the series proper?

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


The protagonist gets to meet parallel world versions of most of his close friends and a couple of his teachers, and goes through military training with them.

Lots and lots and lots of worldbuilding, nostalgia for his carefree old life, connecting with his new old friends, struggling with the culture shock, learning to pilot mecha (called Tactical Surface Fighters), trying to piece together the mystery of why he's there and what he's supposed to do, and romance blooms.

Then the Alternative V plan is activated: 100,000 people will evacuate Earth in a migrant fleet built using scavenged alien technology, while the rest of humanity stays behind to fight the BETA to the bitter end through liberal use of weapons of mass destruction.

It doesn't end well.

And that's when Muv-Luv Alternative, which is 3 times the length of Muv-Luv Extra and Unlimited combined, starts.

The whole thing is one hell of a ride.

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

Endorsed by:
Pentecoastal Elites!
fart_man_69!
Terminal autist!
Ruzihm!
Judakel!
Dixon Chisholm!
Nix Panicus!
Neurolimal!

I remember that it always bugged me how they didn't just use those WMDs, even if they rendered the land incapable of supporting life afterwards. Like, it shouldn't be a big deal just to render individual ~50-100 mile radius areas uninhabitable (and there shouldn't be a need to cover more than the hives and their underground tunnels) in exchange for wiping out the alien invasion when the alternative is massive offensives with low chances of victory that involve sacrificing millions of lives anyways. IIRC there was some other kinda contrived excuse for not using them, but I remember being unimpressed with how it factored into the pros/cons analysis of the situation.

My controversial Muv-Luv opinion is that Unlimited is better than Alternative overall, and that Alternative's best part is its first half. After that it becomes a bit too predictable (though the twist where it was revealed that the BETA purposefully let the Yokohama hive be controlled was good). Unlimited does some kinda neat stuff with having all the big stuff happening unseen in the background.

I also wish the game(s) had better characters. None of the main characters (except possibly the protagonist) are particularly interesting (as opposed to the setting, which is pretty cool, and a pretty good side cast). This + my opinion about the second half of Alternative is why my opinion of the game(s) isn't as high as a lot of other peoples', but they're still extremely entertaining in a "book you have trouble putting down" sort of way.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


Ytlaya posted:

I remember that it always bugged me how

You mean the G-Bombs?

They operated on poorly understood principles, so scientists across the world just didn't know what the long term effects would be at all. You know, like how the Manhattan project scientists were afraid of the potential of nuclear weapons setting the atmosphere on fire? Well, the immediate effects of G-Bombs were fairly obvious, but what if it wasn't just that, and it wasn't localized? And, because of the potential of the BETA developing countermeasures, once they started using them they had to take out all hives within weeks. No time to take it slow.

And as it turns out, concerns for unexpected effects were validated following Operation Babylon as shown in The Day After:



The mass use of 5th-dimensional effect bombs shift the planet's center of gravity, pushing large regions of the world out of the habitable zone of Earth's atmosphere, and prompting megatsunamis that blast through and eventually submerge Eurasia, with the displaced oceans leaving behind vast salt flats.

Gravity anomalies cut off access to space. Satellite telecommunications are lost, and a powerful Dellinger effect makes even ground-based radio spotty and of limited range. Surviving orbital forces can do little more than powerlessly look down at the devastated planet while their supplies dwindle.

The world's only surviving powers, the American-Japanese Alliance and the French-Canadian alliance, immediately go to war over the limited resources and habitable territory, and America's perceived responsibility for the catastrophe.

And worst of all, some BETA are later confirmed to have survived, and with all previously-known hives now inaccessible underwater, humanity has forever lost any chance of defeating them.

Raxivace
Sep 9, 2014



I think we talked about this in the VN thread at some point but I agree with Ytala that Alternative just kind of loses steam like halfway through. Lot of repetition too- I remember there being many dull and long fake science lectures to sit through in particular.

I liked Extra/Unlimited better.

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

Endorsed by:
Pentecoastal Elites!
fart_man_69!
Terminal autist!
Ruzihm!
Judakel!
Dixon Chisholm!
Nix Panicus!
Neurolimal!

Conspiratiorist posted:

You mean the G-Bombs?

They operated on poorly understood principles, so scientists across the world just didn't know what the long term effects would be at all. You know, like how the Manhattan project scientists were afraid of the potential of nuclear weapons setting the atmosphere on fire? Well, the immediate effects of G-Bombs were fairly obvious, but what if it wasn't just that, and it wasn't localized? And, because of the potential of the BETA developing countermeasures, once they started using them they had to take out all hives within weeks. No time to take it slow.

And as it turns out, concerns for unexpected effects were validated following Operation Babylon as shown in The Day After:



The mass use of 5th-dimensional effect bombs shift the planet's center of gravity, pushing large regions of the world out of the habitable zone of Earth's atmosphere, and prompting megatsunamis that blast through and eventually submerge Eurasia, with the displaced oceans leaving behind vast salt flats.

Gravity anomalies cut off access to space. Satellite telecommunications are lost, and a powerful Dellinger effect makes even ground-based radio spotty and of limited range. Surviving orbital forces can do little more than powerlessly look down at the devastated planet while their supplies dwindle.

The world's only surviving powers, the American-Japanese Alliance and the French-Canadian alliance, immediately go to war over the limited resources and habitable territory, and America's perceived responsibility for the catastrophe.

And worst of all, some BETA are later confirmed to have survived, and with all previously-known hives now inaccessible underwater, humanity has forever lost any chance of defeating them.


Yeah, but given what they knew that was a worthwhile roll of the dice. It was basically a choice between "thing with known tiny chance of success" vs "thing with low-ish chance of saving a minority of the population (the ships)" vs "thing with no knowledge of long-term effects."

The first is only the right choice in hindsight knowing it would succeed and the latter would fail.

Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 23:17 on Jul 24, 2019

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


Thing is that's not quite the calculus - nations were already willing to be very environmentally unfriendly that with the deployment of heavy metal clouds as part of bombardment doctrines, depleted uranium rounds as standard vehicle armaments, and use nuclear weapons for area denial, so while the desire of one day returning to their homelands is something that's posited by Captain Isumi as a reason, Takeru himself ponders on how these other things are okay but G-Bombs aren't.

Because it's something the story lampshades, then the truth lies in the subtext of the answer given by the person that's highest on the pecking order: Yuuko says they don't know what the consequences will be. Since it's her that's saying it, what that means is that based on the understanding of the scientific community (and consequently political/military higher-ups), the ramifications could be catastrophic - enough that for Yuuko, a person who regularly pushes the odds with the fate of mankind at stake, Alternative V just wasn't a dice worth rolling. In fact, something she desperately opposed.

And remember that the evacuation fleet is an addendum to the overall plan, a concession from the US to convince other nations play along, which reinforces that the UN Security Council knew the G-Bombs could end up causing apocalyptic ecological damage. Why else have planetary evacuation as a pre-condition for launching the operation? There were real, monumental fears at play here, and like so many things in Muv-Luv, these were concerns kept away from the eyes and ears of the men and women on the ground.

Grouchio
Aug 31, 2014
Probation
Can't post for 3 hours!


Don't we have a Muv Luv thread somewhere? I feel like posting clips from the memory snow OVA.

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

Endorsed by:
Pentecoastal Elites!
fart_man_69!
Terminal autist!
Ruzihm!
Judakel!
Dixon Chisholm!
Nix Panicus!
Neurolimal!

Conspiratiorist posted:

Thing is that's not quite the calculus - nations were already willing to be very environmentally unfriendly that with the deployment of heavy metal clouds as part of bombardment doctrines, depleted uranium rounds as standard vehicle armaments, and use nuclear weapons for area denial, so while the desire of one day returning to their homelands is something that's posited by Captain Isumi as a reason, Takeru himself ponders on how these other things are okay but G-Bombs aren't.

Because it's something the story lampshades, then the truth lies in the subtext of the answer given by the person that's highest on the pecking order: Yuuko says they don't know what the consequences will be. Since it's her that's saying it, what that means is that based on the understanding of the scientific community (and consequently political/military higher-ups), the ramifications could be catastrophic - enough that for Yuuko, a person who regularly pushes the odds with the fate of mankind at stake, Alternative V just wasn't a dice worth rolling. In fact, something she desperately opposed.

And remember that the evacuation fleet is an addendum to the overall plan, a concession from the US to convince other nations play along, which reinforces that the UN Security Council knew the G-Bombs could end up causing apocalyptic ecological damage. Why else have planetary evacuation as a pre-condition for launching the operation? There were real, monumental fears at play here, and like so many things in Muv-Luv, these were concerns kept away from the eyes and ears of the men and women on the ground.

I'm not denying that there were were huge risks/fears; I'm denying that it made sense to evaluate them as being worse than the equally catastrophic alternatives (which were basically "a tiny chance of victory, with failure resulting in being wiped out," which is functionally the same outcome as the G-Bombs killing everyone). In that context, they at least had good reason to believe the bombs could beat the BETA (and had previous experience of it letting them reclaim territory), so even if it was a roll of the dice as to whether they would cause other problems it's not like there were any other good options. Even with the success of Alternative 4 (is that the main plot one, forget) they were still forced into a plan with a very low chance of success, and without Alternative 4 they were looking at literally no other plausible options. So basically my point is that using the G-Bombs was actually a pretty reasonable option, and even given what we know about them it still would make sense to include them as part of the strategy (since that actually had been done in the past without ending the world, so clearly they can at least be used some without causing catastrophic damage).

By the way, if I were someone else and read my and Raxivace's posts about Alternative I'd probably be turned off from reading it, so I feel like I should mention that even with my criticism of the second half it's still extremely entertaining. So I don't want anyone who hasn't read it to be put off by that.

Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 16:44 on Jul 25, 2019

RevolverDivider
Nov 12, 2016



I miss the old VN thread as that sent me to Muv Luv and I had a blast with it.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015



To keep it brief since this is the R:Z thread, the other part of the equation is that there was a genuine belief that humanity could eventually defeat the BETA through conventional means. While the BETA remained relatively static, TSF technology had progressed enormously since the beginning of the war, and Gray Element research was opening scientific avenues beyond the Moorcock-Lechte engine. Indeed, the practical objective of Alt. IV was intelligence gathering - and as Operation Sledgehammer would go on to demonstrate, simply possessing semi-accurate intelligence on BETA numbers and Hive layouts was enough to mount successful Hive capture operations with a fraction of the manpower of Operation Iceberg.

ViggyNash
Oct 9, 2012


So was there any point to having an entire game of generic high school romcom hijinx before all the aliens and apocalypse? Any reason a condensed version it couldn't have been the first third of Unlimited or something?It just seems really weird that the bait-n-switch came after an entire multi-dozen hour game. And also a waste of time

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

Endorsed by:
Pentecoastal Elites!
fart_man_69!
Terminal autist!
Ruzihm!
Judakel!
Dixon Chisholm!
Nix Panicus!
Neurolimal!

ViggyNash posted:

So was there any point to having an entire game of generic high school romcom hijinx before all the aliens and apocalypse? Any reason a condensed version it couldn't have been the first third of Unlimited or something?It just seems really weird that the bait-n-switch came after an entire multi-dozen hour game. And also a waste of time

The main point of it is to draw contrast with the protagonist's experiences in the alternate timeline (and thus create a sense of "nostalgia"), and there are also a variety of things that happen during it that directly connect with events in Alternative (and are kind of neat to notice after the fact).

Not sure if this entirely justifies its existence and length, but that's its main purpose.

Vaguely on the topic of Re:Zero, I just realized that Muv-Luv is also sorta an isekai (if you consider alternate timelines to be "another world").

cergos
Apr 23, 2019

The hush of the night sky is the silence of a graveyard.


Ytlaya posted:

The main point of it is to draw contrast with the protagonist's experiences in the alternate timeline (and thus create a sense of "nostalgia"), and there are also a variety of things that happen during it that directly connect with events in Alternative (and are kind of neat to notice after the fact).

Not sure if this entirely justifies its existence and length, but that's its main purpose.

Vaguely on the topic of Re:Zero, I just realized that Muv-Luv is also sorta an isekai (if you consider alternate timelines to be "another world").

More like a reverse isekai

Normally in isekai the guys like magically gets better and gets his own harem

In muvluv his life starts out like a dating sim and then it gets way worse

Grouchio
Aug 31, 2014
Probation
Can't post for 3 hours!


RE ZERO FALL UPDATE

1. Here's the key visual for the new Bonds of Ice OVA:




2. Here's the Trailer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLFUEr2NV7I


3. There are rumors that Season 2 may come out as early as January 2020!

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination


Grouchio posted:

3. There are rumors that Season 2 may come out as early as January 2020!

:pusheen:

thank you for good tidings on this hallowed day

Grouchio
Aug 31, 2014
Probation
Can't post for 3 hours!


Toalpaz posted:

:pusheen:

thank you for good tidings on this hallowed day
Right back at ya ZERO-DA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIzATxcfyUE

Hogama
Sep 3, 2011


https://twitter.com/Rezero_official/status/1204327995344707584
Probably worth posting here, too.
S2 in April, S1 re-airs starting in January with an additional epilogue after the final episode.

Grouchio
Aug 31, 2014
Probation
Can't post for 3 hours!


Hogama posted:

S2 in April, S1 re-airs starting in January with an additional epilogue after the final episode.
:getin:

AlternateNu
May 5, 2005

"すやぁ~じゃなくて!"



Hogama posted:

S2 in April, S1 re-airs starting in January with an additional epilogue after the final episode.

loving eeeeeeeeeeeeeeehhhhyyyyyyyy!

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination


Hogama posted:

Probably worth posting here, too.
S2 in April, S1 re-airs starting in January with an additional epilogue after the final episode.

I am HYPE

Grouchio
Aug 31, 2014
Probation
Can't post for 3 hours!


24 episodes entirely of arc 4 btw.

Hogama
Sep 3, 2011


And to be clear, arc 4 can definitely fill 24 episodes.

EponymousMrYar
Jan 4, 2015

The enemy of my enemy is my enemy.


I'd place bets on how many times we'd see poor Subaru have to do a time loop...

But I think my 'Lets do the Time Warp Again' track broke from the first season alone.

Wark Say
Feb 22, 2013

by Fluffdaddy


Subaru is going to wish he listened more to late-period Meshuggah.

Grouchio
Aug 31, 2014
Probation
Can't post for 3 hours!


MOTHERFUCKERS

IT IS TIME

TO START

FROM ZERO AGAIN

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNy8mjWxrLE


Every wednesday, a 45-minute episode will air of Re:Zero Season 1. Two episodes back-to-back to be precise.

By the end of March, we will have caught up to the entirety of season 1. And then,

We Commence Season 2

This will be a director's cut. New poo poo has been added in, new content and new animation.

I want to catalogue all the changes this new edition brings to season 1.

Who's with me?




Grouchio fucked around with this message at 15:08 on Jan 1, 2020

ninjewtsu
Oct 9, 2012



I'd be interested in seeing that

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012


When are the Director's Cut episodes airing.

Grouchio
Aug 31, 2014
Probation
Can't post for 3 hours!


MonsterEnvy posted:

When are the Director's Cut episodes airing.
First one is airing in Japan in six hours. Will be subbed on Crunchyroll.

Brownieftw
Nov 23, 2011

Fluff master


Already? Oh poo poo. I'm in, as hard as the first season was to watch in some spots, I'm definitely up for doing this again.

Blaze Dragon
Aug 28, 2013
LOWTAX'S SPINE FUND



This is honestly a great move, not only will it mean everyone has S1 fresh for S2, it lets them add stuff that got cut from the adaptation. I haven't read the novels but from posts in the last thread apparently some really important setup got cut so I'm guessing that's the main point for this.

It also feels extremely fitting for Re:Zero of all things.

Cipher Pol 9
Oct 9, 2006




I would definitely read those posts compiling additions and changes to the episodes. I plan to watch the re-air but I won't remember if it's new or not.

Do we know if Crunchyroll will have the new versions?

nielsm
Jun 1, 2009




Yes and it's already going up.
https://www.crunchyroll.com/en-gb/rezero-starting-life-in-another-world-

Cowman
Feb 14, 2006

Beware the cow








I'm psyched for season 2. I'm watching the director's cut and they're still doing the colored text at the end! It's a rabbit hole that I went down the first time I watched this and never got anywhere. Here's my old as hell imgur post of all the colored texts along with my theorycrafting nonsense from when I first followed this path. Bringing it up again simply because I want someone who is smarter than me to help me out. What I ended up with was that the color was the character the episode focused on and the character was the theme of the episode but I don't speak Japanese or read it so I was really just wildly guessing.

https://imgur.com/gallery/7TEBX

Obviously this probably contains spoilers of some sort, specifically with characters and maybe some episode spoilers.

Edit: loving hell I went way in depth with this. I had no life back in 2016. Still don't.

Cowman fucked around with this message at 23:39 on Jan 1, 2020

nielsm
Jun 1, 2009




So, any comparisons between original and director's cut ep 1 yet?

Tamba
Apr 5, 2010



nielsm posted:

So, any comparisons between original and director's cut ep 1 yet?

The length is the same (other than the extended credit roll), so no new scenes so far.

Grouchio
Aug 31, 2014
Probation
Can't post for 3 hours!


nielsm posted:

So, any comparisons between original and director's cut ep 1 yet?
From Reddit:

15:30 - Silver Haired Half-Elf stares for an extra second or two.
22:20 - Slightly longer held shot on the Sun.
25:00 - Slightly longer held shots on Subaru's face.
Ending theme is drawn out and extended to the full length song.

Nothing big yet (this is the opening act after all). Once we hit either arc 2 or 3 I'd expect new scenes to start popping up.

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Grouchio
Aug 31, 2014
Probation
Can't post for 3 hours!


Time for episode 2! Rem and Ram debut next week.

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