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LRADIKAL
Jun 10, 2001

A Very Useful Person



Fun Shoe

Preoptopus posted:

Seems like you have some math to do. If your set on getting winters, getting separate rims is the way to go long term as it saves you the tire swap twice a year. Also most tire shops wont gently caress with winters unless your getting all 4. The best A/S that focuses on fuel efficiency I could recommend are Conti Pure Contacts with the eco plus tech. But like with everything you gain some and loose some. They dont do well in heavy snow. I did run them on my rwd beemer in wisconsin and snow storms were sketchy but tolerable just had to take it easy. But of course this was on flat ground. No tires are gonna be great on ice besides studded snows not sure if they are legal where you are.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

do not buy winter tires unless you buy all four

winter tires will reduce your range - kind of up to you. i think either OEM summer + winter tires is fine, or a well rated cold weather all season is probably fine. kind of depends on what type of driving you are doing.


Thanks for the tips and suggestions. Helped me start learning about wheels and tires. Never had to do it before.

One other thing about the weather here is that when we do get a 3-12 inches of snow once or twice every couple years, we don't have enough plows and don't have many sand trucks, so we end up on a lot of fluff and compressed snow.

I'm pretty convinced that I should get all four and a set of wheels because changing tires sucks. I imagine using the efficient tires until it starts getting icy in the fall, and using the winterier tires until the weather warms or dries up. Is there any reason I would deviate from current wheel or tire size? Should I get used rims? Weight and looks are the main differentiators between different products, correct?

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KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010




provided you can clear your brakes, going -1 or even -2 gets you a narrower, smaller diameter wheel for better performance and lower tire and wheel cost. I've usually gone -1.

I don't particularly trust used rims since it's hard to visually inspect for issues that will effect tire seating. i just bought new winter tires and new alloy wheels for a car for like 800 bucks from tire rack. not bad.

BraveUlysses
Aug 7, 2002


Grimey Drawer

shopping for winter wheel/tires...

so it seems like my wife's cx-5 could use passenger car tires or light truck tires (which are more expensive) is the only real difference going to be the theoretical max load? i feel like car tires should be better than truck tires, all things considered

sharkytm
Oct 9, 2003

Gimme Gimme Swedish Fish...



Fallen Rib

BraveUlysses posted:

shopping for winter wheel/tires...

so it seems like my wife's cx-5 could use passenger car tires or light truck tires (which are more expensive) is the only real difference going to be the theoretical max load? i feel like car tires should be better than truck tires, all things considered

Not necessarily. The sidewalls are usually stronger on LT's as a function of the higher load rating. That's a plus for potholes or ice chunks. My wife's got a CX5 too, not sure if she needs snows though. She's always run them on her Fit, but the CX5 seems to be much better in the snow on A/S. We'll see, last winter wasn't much for snow in MA.

LRADIKAL
Jun 10, 2001

A Very Useful Person



Fun Shoe

KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

provided you can clear your brakes, going -1 or even -2 gets you a narrower, smaller diameter wheel for better performance and lower tire and wheel cost. I've usually gone -1.

I don't particularly trust used rims since it's hard to visually inspect for issues that will effect tire seating. i just bought new winter tires and new alloy wheels for a car for like 800 bucks from tire rack. not bad.

Is that making the wheel smaller, but tire same diameter? A smaller tire diameter will gently caress with my range estimates and mileage, right? Narrow is better for winter/water/snow/ice? Contact patch vs pressure? I think I'm asking some basic questions, hope they're not too dumb.

BraveUlysses
Aug 7, 2002


Grimey Drawer

you end up decreasing the wheel diameter which is accommodated by increasing the sidewall height so that you end up with a wheel diameter that is very close to your original wheel diameter

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010




BraveUlysses posted:

you end up decreasing the wheel diameter which is accommodated by increasing the sidewall height so that you end up with a wheel diameter that is very close to your original wheel diameter

this, essentially.

My Golf has default 17" wheels with 205/55 tires. When I put 16" wheels on for winter, they have 205/65 tires. The summer wheel has a total diameter of approximately 17 + 2(8.07 * 0.55) for a total diameter of 25.9". The winter wheel has a total diameter of approximately 16 + 2(8.07 * 0.65), total diameter of 26.5". It's a little off but it's not too far. I also don't mind the slight increase in ride height because ground clearance is nice in the snow.

Note that tires are expressed as a width (first number, mm) and the sidewall height as a percentage of the width. So a 205/55 has a shorter sidewall than a 215/55.

width matters more for contact patch than diameter.

InitialDave
Jun 14, 2007

I Want To Believe.


Try using an online calculator like this to confirm potential alternative tyre sizes match the diameter of what you currently use:

https://tiresize.com/comparison/

Preoptopus
Aug 25, 2008



I suggest searching tirerack and picking out what wheels u like and them calling them to confirm your gonna get the correct offset for your car. They will also let u know about availability and give you the exact cost of freight. Your also gonna want a lug nut set which they have and hub centering rings.

buttcrackmenace
Nov 14, 2007

see its right there in the manual where it says


Grimey Drawer

Preoptopus posted:


Pro tip. Thoes of you who are extra fancy and trying to get hakkapeliittas you gotta jump on them early cause the US only gets a small supply every winter and they go quick.

this. I lived in northern Utah for ten years while attending college. I had a set of Hakkapeliittas on my winter-beater RX-7.

Unstoppable (except in cases of really deep snow)

my memories of the faces of Bros in F150s stuck in ditches, wheels whirling uselessly as i sailed past will never not be funny

Modus Man
Jun 8, 2004



Soiled Meat

BraveUlysses posted:

shopping for winter wheel/tires...

so it seems like my wife's cx-5 could use passenger car tires or light truck tires (which are more expensive) is the only real difference going to be the theoretical max load? i feel like car tires should be better than truck tires, all things considered

I wouldn’t go with LT’s on anything but heavy full size trucks. They are a rougher ride compared to their passenger counterparts, and I think that would be exaggerated even more so on a lighter small suv.

Preoptopus
Aug 25, 2008



Only time i put LTs on a smaller suv or cross over is if the customer drives on a lot of gravel or dirt roads as they hold up better. The customer is already used to a poo poo ride from the road itself anyway.

MrOnBicycle
Jan 18, 2008
Wait wat?

So I'm looking at buying a new car that has stock tire dimension of 215/55R17. Seems like it's a slightly odd size, because the Continental WinterContact TS 860 are hard to find (if not impossible) in that size. It's available in 225/50 R17 though. Should be very close in final diameter according to calculators, but what about the extra width? How much "play" is there with tire widths?
Trying to get the dealer to include winter tires and do not want to get the junky crap KIA ships their cars with.

sharkytm
Oct 9, 2003

Gimme Gimme Swedish Fish...



Fallen Rib

There's quite a bit of slack in the measurements. Those will be fine. Good luck getting them swapped in, no one wants the stock tires, and they're "used". In general, I go narrower and taller on snows, it gives a better contact patch shape and a little more sidewall to protect the wheel.

MrOnBicycle
Jan 18, 2008
Wait wat?

sharkytm posted:

There's quite a bit of slack in the measurements. Those will be fine. Good luck getting them swapped in, no one wants the stock tires, and they're "used". In general, I go narrower and taller on snows, it gives a better contact patch shape and a little more sidewall to protect the wheel.
Thanks! I wish I could go down to 16" rims for winter months, but I found that apparently the Optima PHEV won't fit 16" according to the manual. Oh well.
I'm looking to get the additional set of rims which is customary in Sweden (as we generally have 2 sets of wheels and tires). Either that or get them to knock off the $ of the sticker price so I can buy them myself. Another KIA place said they wanted $1100 for their rims+tires, which I think is Nexen/Kumho winter tires. Pricing it out myself I land around $1100-1500 for a set up which kinda stings as it's a legal requirement from December 1st.

Seems like 5x114.3 is pretty common though, so finding rims shouldn't be too hard. But the dealer doesn't have to know I'm willing to buy second hand. :P

Preoptopus
Aug 25, 2008



MrOnBicycle posted:

Thanks! I wish I could go down to 16" rims for winter months, but I found that apparently the Optima PHEV won't fit 16" according to the manual. Oh well.
I'm looking to get the additional set of rims which is customary in Sweden (as we generally have 2 sets of wheels and tires). Either that or get them to knock off the $ of the sticker price so I can buy them myself. Another KIA place said they wanted $1100 for their rims+tires, which I think is Nexen/Kumho winter tires. Pricing it out myself I land around $1100-1500 for a set up which kinda stings as it's a legal requirement from December 1st.

Seems like 5x114.3 is pretty common though, so finding rims shouldn't be too hard. But the dealer doesn't have to know I'm willing to buy second hand. :P

5x114.3 is a common Japanese size as well so you can see if you could find a set used off someones Toyota or Honda or score them at a junk yard if there is such a think where you live.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010




MrOnBicycle posted:

So I'm looking at buying a new car that has stock tire dimension of 215/55R17. Seems like it's a slightly odd size, because the Continental WinterContact TS 860 are hard to find (if not impossible) in that size. It's available in 225/50 R17 though. Should be very close in final diameter according to calculators, but what about the extra width? How much "play" is there with tire widths?
Trying to get the dealer to include winter tires and do not want to get the junky crap KIA ships their cars with.

Is there some reason you're stuck on the TS 860s? you can also stretch a 205/55R17 on that wheel size.

jamal
Apr 15, 2003

I'll set the building on fire

If you're going with a slightly different winter tire size, narrower and taller is better than shorter and wider. I'm not seeing a good option to do that for 17" tires though.

It could still also be possible to use 16s so i wouldn't completely rule that out. 215/60-16 is a tire size that exists and is the right diameter.

MrOnBicycle
Jan 18, 2008
Wait wat?

KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

Is there some reason you're stuck on the TS 860s? you can also stretch a 205/55R17 on that wheel size.

Won the Swedish Teknikens Värld tire test in the Mid-Euro Winter Tires category, which is the type of tire they actually recommend now if you live in the south of Sweden since the government has decided that these types of tires are now legal. MUCH better performance in the wet/slush than the typical nordic winter tires, and since we only get a few days of snow which quickly turns to slush it seems safer to be much safer 90% of the time, than 10% of the time. They still perform well in snow/ice conditions, just not nearly as well.

Preoptopus posted:

5x114.3 is a common Japanese size as well so you can see if you could find a set used off someones Toyota or Honda or score them at a junk yard if there is such a think where you live.

Yeah I noticed this, very happy that I'll be buying into a common pattern. Been stuck with Alfa Romeos not so common pattern. Trying to get the dealer to either throw in some rims, or better yet just discount from the price and I'll go buy some second hand ones. Winter rims purely functional in my opinion, so rather not deal with new perfect rims anyway.

jamal posted:

If you're going with a slightly different winter tire size, narrower and taller is better than shorter and wider. I'm not seeing a good option to do that for 17" tires though.

It could still also be possible to use 16s so i wouldn't completely rule that out. 215/60-16 is a tire size that exists and is the right diameter.

Yeah I was hoping that, but the owners manual states that the 16" dimensions are not for the PHEV. Don't know why it would actually make any difference apart from perhaps bigger brakes due to more weight of the PHEV. I'll look into narrower and taller. I tried to find the tire dimension that gave the least difference in speed reading as a guage of close to OEM fitment.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010




i for one would not get that hyped up about a specific brand of nonperformance tire but good for you

Charles
May 9, 2004

zoom-zoom


Toilet Rascal

Preoptopus posted:

5x114.3 is a common Japanese size as well so you can see if you could find a set used off someones Toyota or Honda or score them at a junk yard if there is such a think where you live.

Don't forget you need to keep in mind offset and center bore. Aftermarket wheels usually have a large center bore and you put in a hub ring tailored for your car.

MrOnBicycle
Jan 18, 2008
Wait wat?

KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

i for one would not get that hyped up about a specific brand of nonperformance tire but good for you

Wouldn't say I'm hyped up, I just enjoy the fact that it finished best in test in the category and seems to be universally well received test-wise. Our Swedish magazines take their winter tire testing very serious lol. With the comparitavly (to crashing a brand to car, that is) low costs of buying a good set of tires I want to get the best possible for my conditions. Cheap insurance!

Thanks for all the help guys.

BraveUlysses
Aug 7, 2002


Grimey Drawer

well i was GOING TO buy some 17's to serve as winter wheels for my wife's CX5 but then these oem 19" wheels popped up on CL and the price was plummeting daily.



he said they were from a friend who bought a new cx5 and had the dealer put aftermarket wheels on it before they took delivery

all 4 with lugs for 360 is good

MrOnBicycle
Jan 18, 2008
Wait wat?

Those look very nice and what a great price!

I'm tiring already of dealing with dealers selling cars from under me after we pretty much agreed on the car. Latest dealer wants to sell me crappy Kumho Nordic Friction tires. If it can't be helped I'll have to just accept the tires and either swap and eat the cost or live with semi-crap tires for a couple of winters.

jonathan
Jul 3, 2005

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN


Best bang for the buck track day tire for a light 2000lb vehicle ? Car is trailered to the track, and rain happens sometimes. Wheels are 15" diameter and i'd prefer the tallest tire possible.

jonathan fucked around with this message at 19:30 on Sep 26, 2019

jamal
Apr 15, 2003

I'll set the building on fire

jonathan posted:

i'd prefer the tallest tire possible.

Why? Higher CG, taller effective final drive, more tire flex. All things you might not want on track.


Maybe try those nexens, the sur4, or federal's 595 RSRR.

BlackMK4
Aug 23, 2006

wat.

Megamarm

In addition to what Jamal mentioned, maybe the Maxxis VR1 or RT615K+. The normal NT01/RC1 suck in the rain and the RE71R/A052 wears very fast.

I've heard good things about the Federal he mentioned

jonathan
Jul 3, 2005

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN


jamal posted:

Why? Higher CG, taller effective final drive, more tire flex. All things you might not want on track.


Maybe try those nexens, the sur4, or federal's 595 RSRR.

I was trying to avoid the "dont do that" comments.

I'm setting up my Wildcat XX for ice racing (with spiked tires), I have new custom shocks being made. But I'd also like to try some autox and track days with it just for fun by mounting some sticky tires. It tops out at 75mph with a 30" tire. I can get the rev and speed limiters adjusted for another 10mph or so but if I run a 24" tire i'll be slow enough that id be worried about getting passed hard by everything else. It's basically a symptom of a performance tuned CVT trans.

I can ship in Nankang AR1's for cheap.

jonathan fucked around with this message at 20:33 on Sep 26, 2019

BraveUlysses
Aug 7, 2002


Grimey Drawer

CHOOSE YOUR FIGHTER:

Blizzak DM-V2 vs Altimax Arctic 12

InitialDave
Jun 14, 2007

I Want To Believe.


Crossposting from the chat thread, as I typed it up there, then immediately remembered we had this thread!

There's a discount code that ends tonight so I'm thinking of getting my order for winter tyres in early. Just tryign to decide on size.

Standard tyre size is 195/45R15

Book winter size is 185/55R14, which is a match on diameter, but the most expensive option, and still quite wide for such a light car. Though by "most expensive", I mean there's like £10 a tyre difference across the total price range.

Cheapest is 155/65R14, but that may be going TOO narrow tbh (wheels are 5.5").

So compromise sizes of 165/60R14 or 175/60R14 are on the table.

The 175s are still cheap and where I'm thinking of going as a good middle ground.

InitialDave fucked around with this message at 06:01 on Sep 27, 2019

PitViper
May 25, 2003

Welcome and thank you for shopping at Wal-Mart!
I love you!


BraveUlysses posted:

CHOOSE YOUR FIGHTER:

Blizzak DM-V2 vs Altimax Arctic 12

Why those particular two? I've not tried the Arctic 12s, but I've sold a bunch of Pirelli Ice Zero FR's, and run those on the wife's car and Conti WinterContact SI's on mine. Not sure you can really go wrong with any of them, so buy whatever's most reasonably priced

sharkytm
Oct 9, 2003

Gimme Gimme Swedish Fish...



Fallen Rib

BraveUlysses posted:

CHOOSE YOUR FIGHTER:

Blizzak DM-V2 vs Altimax Arctic 12

Altimax Arctic. Cheaper by $25 each in the size I randomly selected, and the Blizzaks are a 50/50 tread depth of "NanoPro Tech Multicell Compound" and "normal snow compound". I've always hated tires that charge you more for a special compound, and then don't deliver that compound for the whole tire. I haven't run that specific Arctic, but I run the old Altimax Arctic on the Fit in the winter, and my wife drives to Upstate NY on them every winter... for the money, they're incredible. TBF, PitViper is right, any snow tire is going to stomp an A/S in snow and on ice.

22 Eargesplitten
Oct 10, 2010

Also sexism, religious bias, jingoism, and so on. Don't do it, people!

Dogs, don't do it either, even if the police man really tries to train you to do it.



How are the Kumho Ecsta PA-51s? My gut instinct is “bad” but I think that comes from hearing negative things about them 12 years ago, which is plenty of time for a brand to redeem itself.

Discount Tire has a $100 mail in rebate on them so I could get a set for $200 after rebate and picking them up in person. They seem to be kind of mediocre in class, but when said class is ultra high-performance that might not be a bad thing? My frame of reference is Continental DWS, both the original and the 06.

MrOnBicycle
Jan 18, 2008
Wait wat?

They placed 5th in Swedish "Vibilägare" (big car magazine that, like many Swedish magazines, do proper tire tests) in 2017. Placed 4th in Swedish ADAC test 2018. So shouldn't be terrible.

In my own tire news I managed to get best in test nordic frictions included in the price of the new car instead of the old tech Kumhos they wanted to include at first. Very pleased.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010




just got close out Blizzak WS80s on wheels for the new golf. however: tire rack sent me 8.

22 Eargesplitten
Oct 10, 2010

Also sexism, religious bias, jingoism, and so on. Don't do it, people!

Dogs, don't do it either, even if the police man really tries to train you to do it.



MrOnBicycle posted:

They placed 5th in Swedish "Vibilägare" (big car magazine that, like many Swedish magazines, do proper tire tests) in 2017. Placed 4th in Swedish ADAC test 2018. So shouldn't be terrible.

In my own tire news I managed to get best in test nordic frictions included in the price of the new car instead of the old tech Kumhos they wanted to include at first. Very pleased.

The PA51s? Maybe it’s because I’m trying to find Swedish results in American Google but I only see the HS51 summer tire.

MrOnBicycle
Jan 18, 2008
Wait wat?

22 Eargesplitten posted:

The PA51s? Maybe it’s because I’m trying to find Swedish results in American Google but I only see the HS51 summer tire.

Yeah that's true, sorry I didn't see that the results swapped the PA51 to HS51.

Fermented Tinal
Aug 25, 2005
ASK ME ABOUT MY BIG DUMB LANDCRUISER



Altimax Arctics.

Blizzaks just haven't been that great since the WS70, and arguably they peaked with the WS50.

Charles
May 9, 2004

zoom-zoom


Toilet Rascal

Charles posted:

What's wrong with Blizzak? I have WS80s on my Mazda and they're awesome.

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eddyc49
Aug 25, 2004



Absolutely nothing. The use case for the Blizzaks is different than the Altimax.

Altimax is great for deeper snow, but is terrible for noise and handling on dry roads, even at colder temperatures. If the roads are snowy fir a large percentage of the winter (I'm looking at you, Oswego, NY) they are great.

The Blizzaks are more of a compromise between tackling occasional snow and not hating driving your car for the 99% of the time there isn't snow in areas with milder winters.

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